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Rifle Scopes Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

Gasitman

Gasitman

Out of work pan handler
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 7, 2010
149
4
Washington
#1
The local shop had a few scopes I am looking to buy, a viper 6-20x50, a nikon 5-20, a leupold mark 4, 4-14 and a zeiss 4-14. The viper had the worst clarity out of all of them, with Nikon close to it. All were good at low settings, but when you dialed in the zoom, this is where I saw some major differences. The lewy was very clear, but man, the Zeiss was off the charts when it came to clarity. It had the zplex z600 reticule. I am very glad I got to see these first hand before buying one.

The guy said the best warranty was the vortex, but if I had the cash, go with the lewy or zeiss. I was really hoping the viper was good, I planned on ordering one on Tuesday. I am a bit bummed out that I have to spend double the coin now.
 
#2
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

The Viper 6.5-20x50 are $280 or $500 scopes (depending on which model you were looking at).

What I'm waiting on (and lots of others here I imagine) is the Viper PST line which are either 4-16x50 or 6-24x50 depending on the model -- which is more like the $900 range... an early batch went out but there are VERY few of these in the wild yet.

...not really the same tier as what you were looking at.

Even those aren't likely to have Ziess-quality glass -- but you're not likely to find a Mil/Mil Illuminated FFP Zeiss anywhere near the sub-$1000 price point (if at all).
 
#3
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

That is suprising! I'm not saying that the Vortex Viper glass should have been on par with the Zeiss but I've had a couple of them and the glass was very good, especially for the price. I would rate the two that I had pretty damn close to the MK4's that I've had.
 
#4
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

This surprises me as well.

I HAVE NOT looked through any of the Viper line of scopes, but I have owned Viper binos, and the Vortex Razor spotter. Both of those units amazed me with the value. World class glass, IMO, and at great prices.

I would look through another, maybe that one had something amiss.

Everything I have seen from Vortex was as good or better than stuff costing twice as much. I am a huge Vortex fan and you can get them from either Scott at LibertyOptics or Doug at Cameraland, so you have ZERO to worry about. Not to mention Vortex' warranty.
 
#5
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

I had a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x50 traded on here for a handgun and the Zeiss optics appeared to my eyes better than the USO SSDS 3.5-15x44 that I have. Even Zeiss camera lenses are known for the best glass in the business so Zeiss knows a thing or two about how to make stellar glass.
 
#6
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

" The viper had the worst clarity out of all of them, with Nikon close to it. All were good at low settings, but when you dialed in the zoom, this is where I saw some major differences."

Enjoy your new scope...
The one you chose should serve you well.
 
#8
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Shottist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it humorous that some many people try to claim their $500 scope is world class. That is like saying Milwaukee's Best is a world class beverage. </div></div>

I find it humorous when people make a statement without reading the thread. It's clear that no one is saying the Viper is a world class scope, just that it is good for the price range it falls in.

-FOB Forgotten
 
#9
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

I find this whole thread humorous.You find it supprising that a scope twice the price and only 2/3s the magnification has better glass? I mean realy thats just unbelievable next thing you know people will be claiming S&Bs resolution trumps NF.
crazy.gif
 
#10
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find this whole thread humorous.</div></div>

Not me; I find it somewhat pathetic. A casual glance through exactly ONE example of a product and that makes all of that model garbage? As already stated, comparing 6.5~20X & 5~20X scopes to 4~14X scopes isn't exactly comparing the same fruit.

It's also important to know exactly HOW those scopes were compared. Within the confines of a store, was there sufficient space to permit proper focus at the scope's minimum distance? Depth of field at 4X, 6.5X and 14X is MUCH greater than at 20X. Thus, a slightly out of focus image will appear to have less "clarity" than a properly focused image.

Zeiss has long had a well deserved reputation for superior glass in all of their optics but that isn't the only reason their products cost so much. They also pay attention to the mechanics of all things they make and a large percentage of their cost is for the rugged construction that ensures reliable function under all conditions and abuse. You also pay for their quality control that they use to protect their superior reputation.

IMO, going strictly by the OP's post and not knowing exactly how the testing was done, I'd have to say that I doubt if a fair comparison of the four scopes was made. BUT, it's the OP's money and he should buy the scope that makes HIM happy. My opinion isn't costing him one penny!
smile.gif
 
#11
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

I have scopes ranging from Swarovski,Zeiss,NF,Pentax,Nikon etc. To me the best bang for the buck is the Zeiss Conquest hands down. Back in the day I was a Nikon fan but they have a yellow haze and arent nearly as bright as many other scopes out there. Your eyes get spoiled my the high end Zeiss and NF. The Vortec are pretty good for the money I tested one 2 yrs back. Its all apples and oranges at a certain point. Personal preference and options are the deciding factors.
 
#12
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

The Zeiss Conquest is an excellent value if you are not looking for a MIL/MIL, FFP, etc, etc.

I have various Conquest on all of my hunting sticks. The clarity and brightness is REALLY good. Spoils me when looking at other glass.
 
#14
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

It might be a good idea for you to look at a Minox 3-15x42 which features German Shott glass (same as the glass that is in a Zeiss Conquest) and is less expensive than a Zeiss. This would be a good hunting scope, if indeed that is what you're in the market for
 
#15
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: apricot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR LOL!! the japanese are makeing the best glass nowadays fyi </div></div>

Realy ..do tell!
 
#16
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: apricot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR LOL!! the japanese are makeing the best glass nowadays fyi </div></div>
I bet that statement would ruffle a feather or two at Schott!
 
#17
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: apricot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR LOL!! the japanese are makeing the best glass nowadays fyi </div></div>

I wouldn't say the best but they aren't far behind I have almost 10k in pro nikon photography gear and yes the glass is top notch, is it the same glass manufacture that nikon uses in there riflescopes i dont know and i've never owned a Nikon scope but as far as Pro DSLR camera lenses go yes they are top notch but you pay for it as well, my 70-200mm f2.8 was almost 2k.
 
#18
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: harleymann02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: apricot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR LOL!! the japanese are makeing the best glass nowadays fyi </div></div>

I wouldn't say the best but they aren't far behind I have almost 10k in pro nikon photography gear and yes the glass is top notch, is it the same glass manufacture that nikon uses in there riflescopes i dont know and i've never owned a Nikon scope but as far as Pro DSLR camera lenses go yes they are top notch but you pay for it as well, my 70-200mm f2.8 was almost 2k. </div></div>

I'm a Canon guy, but aware that Nikon has produced legendary glass for their cameras over the years (good friend uses NOTHING but Nikon primes.) So I was enormously disappointed when I bought a Nikon Monarch 5-20 a couple years back for a hunting rifle. Lacked contrast and sharpness to the point that small branches on a tree 300 yds away that I could very clearly see with a Burris 4.5-14 FFII were not discernible. It was returned.

John
 
#19
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

I am not trying to ruffle any feathers, honestly, I was hoping for the best with the Viper. I was set to call up Doug at Cameraland on Tuesday and get one, however I am going to spend the cash on the Zeiss. It is going on a springfield M1a Loaded and I would love to have an illuminated reticule, etc. However they do still have some refurbished conquests with a mil-dot and target knobs for $769 IIRC.

Maybe the Viper was a bad example, I don't know for sure. I would love to look through a Viper PSt, it has everything I would want in a scope for under $900, it is just to bad they are not out yet. I am tired of waiting, I have had the rifle for over a month, loaded up about 500 rounds and I want to get it sighted in.
 
#20
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: harleymann02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: apricot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR LOL!! the japanese are makeing the best glass nowadays fyi </div></div>

I wouldn't say the best but they aren't far behind I have almost 10k in pro nikon photography gear and yes the glass is top notch, is it the same glass manufacture that nikon uses in there riflescopes i dont know and i've never owned a Nikon scope but as far as Pro DSLR camera lenses go yes they are top notch but you pay for it as well, my 70-200mm f2.8 was almost 2k. </div></div>

I'm a Canon guy, but aware that Nikon has produced legendary glass for their cameras over the years (good friend uses NOTHING but Nikon primes.) So I was enormously disappointed when I bought a Nikon Monarch 5-20 a couple years back for a hunting rifle. Lacked contrast and sharpness to the point that small branches on a tree 300 yds away that I could very clearly see with a Burris 4.5-14 FFII were not discernible. It was returned.

John </div></div>

Me too. I have a D300, with a $2500 70-200VRII lens, probably the best lens I have ever looked through, and I too was confused about the quality of their scopes, to be honest, I was completely disappointed.
 
#21
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

wow that sucks about the scope. I bet they outsource for there riflescope glass. I have two nikon primes a 50mm f1.4 and a 85mm f1.4 and after using them I hardly ever use my 70-200mm f2.8, primes make you work for the photo which makes it more unique and rewarding the bokeh that they produce is incredible for isolating your subject. Canon makes some sweet stuff as well but have no experience with them.
 
#22
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

This is kinda funny in a way, first is this person is judging vortex against zeiss, I got to look thru a leupold mk4 the other day and could not see a dang thing, it was pitaful, am I saying that they suck nope just that I would have to spend alittle bit of time with it to set the adjustments then I could give a HONEST opinion, 2nd if you have 500 rds loaded for a rifle you have never shot then take it from me you just screwed up there also, every rifle shoots different and for load accuracy you should never load more then 10 rds then test and see which load is the most accurate, I have about 150 rds of 300 rum loads that were wasted time cause I did the exact same thing then found out my sendero didnt like that recipe, so now I am wasting them when I get the chance just to save the brass IMHO
 
#23
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: apricot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR LOL!! the japanese are makeing the best glass nowadays fyi</div></div>

The Viper line of scopes have their glass sourced from Japan, then assembled in the Philippines. I think they are good clear scopes that are quite the bargain.
 
#24
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gasitman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have had the rifle for over a month, loaded up about 500 rounds and I want to get it sighted in.</div></div>

If you rifle doesn't shoot well with that load - if they're all the same - then you may want to buy an inertia bullet puller so you can disassemble the loads and start over. Save the bullets and powder of course. It's a mistake to load a large number of cartridges until you know for certain just what load your rifle likes.

There is a system called "OCW" or "Optimal Charge Weight" that will help you develop the best load for your rifle. You can read about it here: http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/ One individual posted on another forum that he found his load in only 40 rounds using the OCW system.

Otherwise, I urge you to find a friend who is well versed in load development and seek their advice and expertise. There's everything to gain by picking the brain of someone with more experience.
 
#25
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

Since I feel on a mini crusade at this point, I have to highlight the message in my sig. Help out if you can- it'll solve many headaches and repetitive debates down the line
smile.gif
...
 
#26
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

Gasitman,

Um, the other day I was in the store and um I bought some apples, oranges, pears, peaches, and um lemons. When I got home I um tasted them all and none of them tasted the same and um some of them were more expensive then others um..........

Look up the word conjecture on Wikipedia and then put a link on their web page to your thread here on the Hide to serve as an example. Then look up the word objective and make a point of applying some of it to your next post. Or even better, just spare us your next post.

What a fcuking waste of my time reading through this thread has been.

Everyone else,

Seriously, this site is going down hill really fast. I used to love to help folks out and post useful information on here, but these days it’s every airsoft wing nut that ever picked up a rifle or scope at Wally-World blathering their jacked up advice and opinions on these forums. Back when I first signed on to this site I spent my first two years asking humble, well worded, legitimate questions, and I solicited that information from members who had obvious experience on my query. Guys, for the sake of all that is intelligent and educational, please post useful, objective, observations. If you can’t do that then; ask useful (if not naïve) questions about legitimate matters concerning the fine art of long distance marksmanship. I really don’t want to sound jaded, and I’m not trying to bust Gasitman’s balls to hard, but threads like this are simply a detraction. They don’t contribute to the site, and in many ways they are poison. Some new guy on here may read this thread and assume that Gasitman actually knows what he is talking about and never consider purchasing a Vortex or a Nikon. I’m not selling either scope, I simply don’t see the point in bashing a product you have not done a comprehensive, side by side, objective, comparison of. Pretty fcuking simple if you ask me, and certainly not too much to ask.

Rant off, and apologies to Gasitman for putting his balls in a vice.

P.S. don't get your panties in a wad if you reply to this post and I don't respond immediately. I work in the Middle East, and I often don't have access to email or internet for days. I'll come back to this post in a few days to defend my assertions if need be.

 
#28
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

Heh, figured I'd chime in here and help the OP out since it's a dogpile at this point
smile.gif
.

What these guys are saying it's true, but here's some advice I'd have for you to help get useful data. Lookup as many f-class and long range matches in your area as you can. Attend these, make nice with the shooters, and ask to look through their scopes. Keep a record handy and take down the mag, mfr., and model (if possible) and what your opinion is on each one. I did this for I think a year or more before deciding on what glass to buy, and by the end, I was a 5-minute expert on almost every brand out there
smile.gif


It's good exposure and gets you familiar with a wide range quickly, and under more realistic shooting conditions to boot.

Similarly, look up hide members from nearby areas- many are extremely friendly and willing to share and educate.

GL,
BB

Oh and thanks to those who just entered new data in the scope spreadsheet- will help everyone out!
 
#29
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gasitman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not trying to ruffle any feathers, honestly, I was hoping for the best with the Viper. I was set to call up Doug at Cameraland on Tuesday and get one, however I am going to spend the cash on the Zeiss. It is going on a springfield M1a Loaded and I would love to have an illuminated reticule, etc. However they do still have some refurbished conquests with a mil-dot and target knobs for $769 IIRC.

Maybe the Viper was a bad example, I don't know for sure. I would love to look through a Viper PSt, it has everything I would want in a scope for under $900, it is just to bad they are not out yet. I am tired of waiting, I have had the rifle for over a month, loaded up about 500 rounds and I want to get it sighted in.

</div></div>

Your Summer Wheatley title would say otherwise.
Good luck with your 500 rounds.
 
#30
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

Wow, you guys have nothing better to do than attack someone on a website? Really class acts some of you are. I gave my opinion, which I am entitled to, whether you agree or disagree, I could care less. The personal attacks are pretty pathetic if you ask me. You act as if I called your son or daughter a retard. I mean really, you are going on the defensive because of a scope, one of which, most of you probably don't even own.

I gave my opinion on something that I actually looked at, how many of you even bothered to pick up a vortex. FFS, get over yourself.

I am not going to buy a scope to to try and figure out if it is good or bad. I looked at scopes that were in my price range, under $800, and some were around that price some were not. As I said, I had high hopes for the viper, it was my first choice, but apparently none of you bothered to read that in my posts. Some of you have more money than brains I suppose and can afford $1000's in scopes, well I can't. Not everyone is so fortunate as you.
 
#31
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: apricot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the japanese are makeing the best glass nowadays fyi </div></div>

um, ok
 
#32
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gasitman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You act as if I called your son or daughter a retard.

</div></div>

OMFG you said "retard"!!!!! no, actually it seemed as though most of the posters prolly felt more like you called their 2nd cousin a retard. oop, excuse me, I meant, a mentally handicapped person. lighten up or someone might start to think you're a pissed off mall ninja.
 
#34
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

<span style="font-weight: bold">gr8,</span> you hit the nail on the head. Minox is an excellent choice for any hunting application.
 
#35
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

To the original poster:
At what zoom did you compare all the scopes? The ability to maintain clarity and sharpness becomes exponentially more difficult as zoom increases.
For example, my 4-16x millett appears to be nearly as clear at max zoom as my nightforce 5.5x22 at max zoom. However, tune the NF zoom down to the same zoom(16x) and you see the difference. That Thea NF can maintain the same clarity at an additional 6x speaks volumes.
If you compared the Zeiss at 14x to the vortex at 20x then no wonder - and this thread just needs to be shut down...
 
#36
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gasitman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, you guys have nothing better to do than attack someone on a website? Really class acts some of you are. I gave my opinion, which I am entitled to, whether you agree or disagree, I could care less. The personal attacks are pretty pathetic if you ask me. You act as if I called your son or daughter a retard. I mean really, you are going on the defensive because of a scope, one of which, most of you probably don't even own.

I gave my opinion on something that I actually looked at, how many of you even bothered to pick up a vortex. FFS, get over yourself.

I am not going to buy a scope to to try and figure out if it is good or bad. I looked at scopes that were in my price range, under $800, and some were around that price some were not. As I said, I had high hopes for the viper, it was my first choice, but apparently none of you bothered to read that in my posts. Some of you have more money than brains I suppose and can afford $1000's in scopes, well I can't. Not everyone is so fortunate as you. </div></div>
Fortunate? So if someone has more money than you, it's because of good luck? Not because they worked hard or made good decisions?
 
#37
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

To the OP,
I totally understand your concerns. When spending a good amount of money you want to make sure you get the best bang for your buck. We feel very confident that the Viper line of rifle scopes fulfills that request a good portion of the time. I don't say all of the time because every ones eyes are different and most people expect different things out of there scope. With that being said I would say that there was a good chance that there was some sort of variable that was conflicting with your comparison. Whether it was dust on the scopes eyepiece or obj,dirty windows, different mag settings, I couldnt tell you for sure ,but I am confident that something was there. I think you would not be disappointed if you gave them another look and just double checked to make sure there are no varibles, all the scopes on the same power, and look at them out side on a stable platform. This may or may not raise your opinion of the scope ,but we would hate for you to spend more money than you need to get the kind of scope quality you are looking for. This of course is just a suggestion, though I do hope you give them another look.


Sincerely
Scott
 
#38
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gasitman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, you guys have nothing better to do than attack someone on a website? Really class acts some of you are. I gave my opinion, which I am entitled to, whether you agree or disagree, I could care less. The personal attacks are pretty pathetic if you ask me. You act as if I called your son or daughter a retard. I mean really, you are going on the defensive because of a scope, one of which, most of you probably don't even own.

I gave my opinion on something that I actually looked at, how many of you even bothered to pick up a vortex. FFS, get over yourself.

I am not going to buy a scope to to try and figure out if it is good or bad. I looked at scopes that were in my price range, under $800, and some were around that price some were not. As I said, I had high hopes for the viper, it was my first choice, but apparently none of you bothered to read that in my posts. Some of you have more money than brains I suppose and can afford $1000's in scopes, well I can't. Not everyone is so fortunate as you. </div></div>
Fortunate? So if someone has more money than you, it's because of good luck? Not because they worked hard or made good decisions? </div></div>

Ya know what man, I work hard too, for everything I have. Your BS comment, is just that BS. I love how people that have more always say, "well I worked for it" Some the hardest working people make the least amount of money. Landscapers are in the sun sweating all day, but some broker can make millions, or a CEO get a bonus for a failed company. The work hard line is old, find something new. My point is, I am not going to buy 4 scopes, and then sell them at a loss to figure out what I want, do you do that with a car? Do you do that with a house? I think not. I know of many people that will buy a gun, take it to the range, and sell it a week later for a loss. I can not afford to do that, but they can, because they work hard.
eek.gif
 
#39
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gaysitman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Ya know what man, I work hard too, for everything I have. Your BS comment, is just that BS. I love how people that have more always say, "well I worked for it" Some the hardest working people make the least amount of money. Landscapers are in the sun sweating all day, but some broker can make millions, or a CEO get a bonus for a failed company. The work hard line is old, find something new. </div></div>

HEY I do landscaping! thanks for the compliment bro! BTW, who's Francis?????
confused.gif
 
#41
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

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#42
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scott_at_Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To the OP,
I totally understand your concerns. When spending a good amount of money you want to make sure you get the best bang for your buck. We feel very confident that the Viper line of rifle scopes fulfills that request a good portion of the time. I don't say all of the time because every ones eyes are different and most people expect different things out of there scope. With that being said I would say that there was a good chance that there was some sort of variable that was conflicting with your comparison. Whether it was dust on the scopes eyepiece or obj,dirty windows, different mag settings, I couldnt tell you for sure ,but I am confident that something was there. I think you would not be disappointed if you gave them another look and just double checked to make sure there are no varibles, all the scopes on the same power, and look at them out side on a stable platform. This may or may not raise your opinion of the scope ,but we would hate for you to spend more money than you need to get the kind of scope quality you are looking for. This of course is just a suggestion, though I do hope you give them another look.


Sincerely
Scott </div></div>

<span style="font-style: italic">also to the OP</span>: The above quote is from someone who is also working hard for their money. My next optic will be a Vortex based on what I have seen - through the glass of the optic and the glass of my monitor. Vortex is looking solid all around.

To have an opinion is the right of everyone but to submit it as a topic on an internet forum and then start lashing out when it is challenged or questioned is precisely the problem that needs not exist here.

To make an assertion about something and have it stand up to scrutiny, one needs to explain the process by which that assertion was formulated. There needs to be continuity in the process and a baseline standard or constant that is rigorously adhered to throughout the examination of all items being tested. The testing conditions must be as close to exact for each item tested and there must be perimeters set for the test. The process conditions need to be blind and repeatable and then each item placed through the steps and the observations noted and explained. That is the only way to properly form and then put forth an assertion and it is the <span style="font-style: italic">ONLY</span> way to effectively defend said assertion under scrutiny.

From what I have read, this was not done. There is a reason why people who test and evaluate equipment professionally have value added to their professional opinions. Having stated that, it doesn't mean that your personal opinion is not of value per se, but it may be why your assertion is being so scrutinized. Many people on this forum are the very makers of the gear that gets bashed, many here feel so haphazardly, by people who want to have a voice but don't want the responsibility or scrutiny that comes along with voicing it publicly.

Likewise, the suggestions being made to you on how you might in the future make a more informed personal opinion are so that when you invite scrutiny your way by submitting an opinion as a topic, you can offer some insight into your reasoning beyond assuming that everyone who doesn't agree with you simply makes uninformed decisions at their loss.
 
#43
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

I fully understand your above post, and I also understand Scott's. However, I did not make any claims that their product was junk, overpriced, or anything like that. I made an observation on what I saw, not hearsay. I do not think anyone will put a Viper on the same level as a Zeiss. I thought the Zeiss was much clearer than the vortex, or the Nikon.

I even said I am an avid Nikon fan, I have over $8000 in Nikon products, from cameras to lenses, and I was disappointed in the scope I looked at. Why is no one defending them?

I meant no harm, I am sure if I looked through a Razor HD, it would be phenomenal, as I said, I was very hopeful on the Viper, that was my first choice going into this. I did not want to waste my money, so that is why I looked at the scopes I was considering first hand, not just read something on the internet where opinions vary. I can honestly say, if the PST was out, I would buy it over the zeiss because it has everything I want, for reasonable price.

I think many of you read way into my posting, or maybe I wrote down some words you took offensive too, I am sorry about that, all I did was give my honest opinion.

Would things be different if the title said "Looked through a Nikon Monarch today, um, no thanks?"
 
#44
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

Geez, you didn't know?
Vortex is a sacred cow here, it is one of the ten commandments.
"Thou shalt not denigrate Vortex"

Vortex is a stand up company and are attempting to bring to market a feature rich FFP scope that will satisfy the majority of tactical shooters.

However, if Leupold would have orchestrated the same type of fiasco with the release of scope model, the pile on would have been of epic proportions, there certainly would not be people rushing to defend them with a release being pushed back 6 or more months.

And no, I do not even own a Leupold and I do not own a Vortex.
I had considered the PST as they feature just about everything I wanted, but I needed a scope this year not sometime in the future. I went with the IOR 3-18.
 
#45
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

I have read this whole thread,then I went back and looked at Big Brothers spread sheet.Guess what?Looks like everyone has a few QC issues now days.Even the most expensive scopes had a few problems,which I'm sure that the maker fixed.Maybe the Viper deserves another look.Everybody has Mondays and Fridays in their production week. Pete
 
#46
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

Poor OP opened a can of worms! Looking at glass in store lighting without knowing more about the mechanics is tough. However, in his defense, the instant clarity of a scope is such a selling point (good or bad) and is hard to get out of your head once you've looked through several scopes.

Good luck!
 
#47
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

I haven't been on here in a long time. What the hell happened here??? This used to be THE place to go for serious, no BS helpful dialogue. You never saw this type of chest beating, alpha male, Black Ops operator crap. Geez, this place has become as bad as all the black rifle sites. Truly a shame to see a really class site decline to this.
 
#48
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

When somebody says that a scope has good clairity (for the money),to me its like being told your blind date has a good personality. If I cant see well thru the scope, all the bells and whistles in the world are useless.
 
#49
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

I recently mounted a 2-7x32 Vortex Viper on my FAL. The scope tracks well and the clarity is fine. It is a great scope at a fantastic price.

I spent the day switching between shooting the FAL with the Viper and my bolt gun with the 5.5-22 NightForce.

I think anyone that attempts to purchase a reasonably priced scope that has magnification well beyond 10X is just deluding themselves that it will be comparable to a NightForce, USO, S&B etc. in the clarity department.

That being said who really shoots at distance beyond 14x magnification? I should have never bought a scope that went to 22x unless I am using it as a spotting scope. I think the high magnification scope purchase is predominantly a newbie thing.

If that is the case, the Vortex is a respectable option for lower magnification scopes at a great price.

 
#50
Re: Looked throug a Vortex viper today, um, no thanks

Well I called Scott at Vortex, and I am going to try the viper out. Worst that can happen is I have to send it back. I just ordered one of the discontinued ones from cs tactical for a temporary fix. I really want the PST when it comes out. I would rather not spend the $799 on a Zeiss and kick myself later when the PST does finally show itself. I will assume I can unload the scope for $200 later down the road and only loose $50-$100 on it.

Scott assured me that scope must of had some issues. I can only hope for the best.
 
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