I have been shooting revolvers some lately and have decided I might like them more than I originally thought. A friend of mine recently bought a Ruger LCR in 38 Special. I liked it but it rattles and I had some issues with short stroking it. I have also been looking at the S&W 642. I need something that I can pocket carry probably in 38 Special. Is the internal hammer the way to go or not? I have found that in a pistol that small going single action is a little difficult. I have to change my grip to do it. I have also heard you don't want a exposed hammer in a self defense revolver. Am I on the right track with either pistol or should I be looking at something else? Also I have very small hand so the grip would need to be small.
Sidearms & Scatterguns Looking For A Carry Revolver
- Thread starter Nosler243Shooter
- Start date
I try to dissuade most people from going to a J-frame (if you know not, it's the S&W general designation for their lightest frame revolvers) solution. Small, light frames tend to produce violent recoil that makes all but the most masochistic of shooters dislike range time behind one. I'd take a serious look at S&W K-frame and Ruger SP-101 revolvers first. They have a bit more meat to them and the shooting experience is less like cupping an M-80 in your hands. Just my 2¢ ...
I have a old steel frame J (Mod. 36). It does ring your hand a little even when shooting 148 wad cutter target loads. Ive heard, havent experienced, that the scandium frames bite quite a bit with SD ammo.
It is my alternate carry. If I dont feel like packing the Colt Combat Commander I toss the J in a front pocket holster or on an belt holster. I dont even realize its there compared to the Colt.
If you are going to buy a J look for an older one in good shape made of steel without the lock. You will save money and depending on your requirements it may be a more user friendly gun.
Note - With my Commander I feel pretty much well armed. When I carry the S&W I feel - "Well at least I have a chance".
It is my alternate carry. If I dont feel like packing the Colt Combat Commander I toss the J in a front pocket holster or on an belt holster. I dont even realize its there compared to the Colt.
If you are going to buy a J look for an older one in good shape made of steel without the lock. You will save money and depending on your requirements it may be a more user friendly gun.
Note - With my Commander I feel pretty much well armed. When I carry the S&W I feel - "Well at least I have a chance".
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Nosler243,
Where you at in Bama. I have a couple of 38 S&W wheel guns and a Mod60 in 357mag but it will run the 38 spl stuff. If you like to but a few rounds down range let me know. I'm in the Thorsby, al area.
Ken
Where you at in Bama. I have a couple of 38 S&W wheel guns and a Mod60 in 357mag but it will run the 38 spl stuff. If you like to but a few rounds down range let me know. I'm in the Thorsby, al area.
Ken
I have to disagree with the "violent recoil" of a 642. I'm small framed at 5'4" tall and smallish hands. I don't like to shoot +P rounds in any of the three 642s that I have but I wouldn't even describe them as having "violent recoil". 158gr Buffalo Bore lead bullets are pretty stout on recoil too. All that said, I'd take the 642 stainless for pocket carry over anything else out there.
Keep in mind that wheel guns "print" through clothing worse than semiautos, especially the six and eight round versions. I have an airweight 38 ,5-round hammerless. In a real tough situation you wont even notice the recoil and probably wont hear the report of your shots because your adrenalin will be blocking all that out. I say carry what you are comfortable with and practice with several different variances of pistols/revolvers and become proficient to the point you can pick up anything and be able to hit the mark. It's called muscle memory. You need to be at the point where you can present, thrust forward quickly, align and squeeze in one smooth movement regardless of what you pick up. Recoil doesn't bother me but if that's an issue practice with wadcutters, they're mild and shouldn't create any flinch issues but you need to be beyond that anyway.
More wood for the fire: The snubbie saga: J-frame vs. K-frame vs. SP101
I carried an Airweight S&W 357 for years. Shot it at the range every week. It was not bad on recoil if you know how to properly handle them.
If you limp wrist them, yes, they will sting you.
If you limp wrist them, yes, they will sting you.
He's right, but what he doesn't tell you is that they are some of the best CCW weapons period. I carry a 340PD a lot, the scandium/titanium model. Yeah, it's pretty brutal in the recoil dept. But it's also so light I literally almost forget I'm carrying anything. It doesn't print as much either because it isn't weighing down a pocket (I pocket carry this one, usually as a backup).
My wife, she carries the J-frames, she LOVES 'em. She has a 649, the shrouded hammer stainless no lock J-frame --that's really the best CCW revolver they made, best of both worlds. She loves that thing, it's about as small as mine but weighs significantly more. You can also draw unhindered like the 340, but unlike the 340, you can cock the hammer if you like. It's more suitable towards a dedicated carry revolver, whereas those 340's are best relegated to backups. I think, anyway.
They aren't bad at all, and I do sometimes carry just that 340PD, but I still prefer and do carry most times a Glock. But I've basically been carrying one or two of the same three pistols since I started years ago, depending on certain factors, so I don't really change.
Check out the S&W 340PD. Extremely light. Very-well suited to carry comfortably. These guns are not range toys; you're not going to be shooting hundred of rounds every weekend for the hell of it with it. Practice, certainly, but for this type of gun, comfort of shooting shouldn't really be a factor. It should be something comfortable to carry that stops a threat. Just my .02.
Maybe the solution here is to bring enough pocket? I imagine that if it's large enough you can shoehorn just about anything in there?
My idea of pocket carry is usually limited to real mouse guns, .32 ACP or less. I've carried a 2" .38 Special J-frame (Model 36?) in the past, but like one of the posters upthread noted, its five round cylinder makes me feel like I "have a chance." I agree with the notion that it's quick to pull and easy to use in hammerless or shrouded configurations, especially given the effects of adrenaline, but I still hold with the idea of going with something that encourages practice and offers an easier reload.
I carry a lightweight J frame and shoot a steel j frame while at the range. Your choice of grips can have a big difference in felt recoil. The j frame is the perfect 100 degree weather gun that goes every where. They are far less finicky that most .380's.
Ive got a 642. I put a box every other month or so through it. Put an Apex Tactical spring kit in it, really smoothed up the pull. Carry in a Nemesis or a Galco Concealable OWB holster.
I just got an M&P shield and its just about the same size as the 642, but its WAY slimmer.
I dont think I will be getting rid of the 642, I really like it for a jacket pocket carry since you could in theory pull the trigger with the pistol still in the pocket of your jacket.
I just got an M&P shield and its just about the same size as the 642, but its WAY slimmer.
I dont think I will be getting rid of the 642, I really like it for a jacket pocket carry since you could in theory pull the trigger with the pistol still in the pocket of your jacket.
40xs said:
Respectfully disagree with both of you.
While the alloy-framed (340, 442, 642) enclosed-hammer J frames certainly pop a little more than your typical G26 or G19, I'd hardly consider it "violent" with 38+p. Introduce 357 cartridges in the 340pd, 340sc or 340M&P models, however, and I'd agree those are probably too stout for most people - myself included.
In regard to printing:
I guess you've got to decide which semiauto you want to compare the 38spl or 38+p to; the 380 or the 9mm? It's really kind of in between. 38+p is hot on the heels of a 9mm, but there again, most people carrying 9s are carrying 9mm+p, which is generally a good step up in energy from 38+p. Further complicating things is 357 from the J frame, which obviously outclasses 9+p quite handily...
Still, I consider the J frame with 38+p an apt comparison to a pocket 9 such as my Kahr PM9. The PM9 is a nice example of a very compact pocket 9. While there are one or two a smidge smaller, the PM9 is a good representation.
Now to the point:
I pocket-carried a 442 for 3 or 4 years before switching to my Kahr PM9. I wanted to try the PM9 because it holds 2 more rounds, and delivers more energy on target. I really like it, it's great.
The downside is it absolutely doesn't pocket-carry as well as the 442. While both have almost the same footprint when laying on their side, the semiauto is very "slab sided", which gives it a blocky look when it prints from the pocket. It's certainly not enough for 99.9% of people to notice at all, but the lumpy/bumpy profile of the 442 just melts into the fabric of your pants/shorts and 99.999999% (maybe 100%?) of people would never notice it.
Thanks for the replies. I will probably pick up a 642 sometime soon.
I'm a large fan of the J-frame and have owned quite a few over the years. My daily carry is a 340pd in either a Hume or DeSantis pocket holster which does a good job of breaking up the 'print'. My practice gun is a 49.
These are not target or plinker pistols and if you expect them to behave that way you'll be sorely disappointed.
I practice with the 49 using light-load wad cutters. I practice with the 340pd using snap caps and live fire about once every six months. I carry the 340pd with 158gr Hydra-shoks. Outfitted with CT grips I'm confident with my choice and the ability to handle it.
These are not target or plinker pistols and if you expect them to behave that way you'll be sorely disappointed.
I practice with the 49 using light-load wad cutters. I practice with the 340pd using snap caps and live fire about once every six months. I carry the 340pd with 158gr Hydra-shoks. Outfitted with CT grips I'm confident with my choice and the ability to handle it.
I've been shooting and carrying a 342Ti. The lightest of the light. Was a BUG on duty for years and now in retirement it's my pocket gun when I can't carry my Sig M11, BHP or Wilson ULCC due to summer attire.
I now teach Permit to Carry certification here and recommend my students get good instruction and shooting experience before deciding on a light weight J frame of any kind.
My 342 is snappy with carry ammo, but I practice with it from 15 yards and in and it works GREAT. I have a set of Crimson Trace boot type grips on it that have some rubber that covers part of the back strap which does help. It's so light that S&W does not recommend shooting non jacketed ammo in it or you will unseat the other rounds in unfired cylinders under recoil.
That being said, if you take the time to train with it they make a great carry piece.
Hell, I'm old enough to have carried my old model 36 ON DUTY when a police investigator in a major metro area. Just threw a speed strip in our pockets for spare ammo as speed loaders were just coming into acceptance, (Pretty slow reloads), and never felt under gunned at the time. But we shot a lot and usually had 2 J frames with us rather than to have to reload.
Times have changed.
I now teach Permit to Carry certification here and recommend my students get good instruction and shooting experience before deciding on a light weight J frame of any kind.
My 342 is snappy with carry ammo, but I practice with it from 15 yards and in and it works GREAT. I have a set of Crimson Trace boot type grips on it that have some rubber that covers part of the back strap which does help. It's so light that S&W does not recommend shooting non jacketed ammo in it or you will unseat the other rounds in unfired cylinders under recoil.
That being said, if you take the time to train with it they make a great carry piece.
Hell, I'm old enough to have carried my old model 36 ON DUTY when a police investigator in a major metro area. Just threw a speed strip in our pockets for spare ammo as speed loaders were just coming into acceptance, (Pretty slow reloads), and never felt under gunned at the time. But we shot a lot and usually had 2 J frames with us rather than to have to reload.
Times have changed.
He said it pretty good there. But I did find that with using regular 158gr. (Rainier plated maybe? they work good at low velocity) .38 special, not +P, just run of the mill, even loaded toward the weak end of the spectrum, does lend for a decent practice round out of the 340PD. Where there is a will, there is a way. It has far less recoil, more like that of a +P or light magnum in an all stainless snub. Very manageable. Should have mentioned that, but I just stumbled upon it myself recently.
I don't know, maybe? It fits in most of my pockets no problem, and no, I don't need a shoehorn to get it in or out, it goes in and out quite easy. It being scandium alloy and titanium, it doesn't weight much at all, and due to this it doesn't weigh down the pocket as I said and cause it to print nearly as much as stainless model (I've tried my wife's shrouded once and it was very heavy, printed, was harder to draw and it certainly weighed down the pocket).
I guess if you pocket carry a revolver, a stainless one, I'd consider a pocket holster too. Or just going IWB, that'd be infinitely better. I don't know how pocket holsters work out, but there is a market for them and Milt Sparks even makes 'em (thought about one of those, just to prevent wear --the front sight, over time, will wear the fabric in your pocket).
But if you want this for what I use mine for, summer carry in shorts or to the store or during other times as maybe a backup, really consider that 340PD and what I've told you above. You can practice with it, just not always using what you carry. It isn't a big deal for a snub like this.
If you consider carrying a revolver all the time, you may want to consider a 640 no lock or if you want the hammer, a 649 no lock like my wife carries. Then have it modified to accept half moon clips. Those'll be easier to conceal and carry than full ones, easier to load than so-called "speed loaders". Plan on having this done to ours.
BTW, reconsider your choice, if I may be so bold in saying so, bump it up to .357. You can still run .38+P's no problem, but have the added ability to use .357. They also retain resale value more. The aluminum airweight models get scratched easy and wear easy, and they are pretty snappy too with +P's. If you want the increase in weight, you can get the 340PD with a stainless cylinder to help reduce recoil and use +P's instead of mags. The custom shop may also have something interesting in looking at; call 'em. These are all just options.
I looked at some of the others yesterday, there a few .380's out now by good manufacturers, not sure of how well they hold up or handle personally, but they look real nice and are small. Still, not my cup of tea. I still love my 340PD for what it does.
Good luck!
PS, I did get a box of 135gr. Gold Dot +P short barrel to chrono... If it works out well and isn't punishing, I may switch to it. But I haven't found a +P that comes close to the mag, even out of a 2" or 1-7/8"bbl. Usually off by as much as 200-300fps.
Generally the J-frame revolvers are the hardest to shoot accurately. Meaning distances. For me, I would always go hammerless just to give the user more carry options. What is a main reason for carrying a J-frame to begin with. As for recoil, each user is different. I personally don't choose to carry something like a 357 in a J-frame. I am somewhat recoil sensitive and shoot a fair amount.
I am always running a Glock 19 these days. As a smaller backup, I would look at a Glock 26, but I haven't needed it so haven't gotten around to picking one up as of late. And it's difficult to choose a J-frame over a baby Glock, but YMMV.
My go-to J-frame is an old S&W 940. It's a steel framed revolver so it isn't super light, is a J-Frame as stated, but is a 9mm and uses moon-clips. That way I can easily support it ammo wise and shoot it quite a bit. You are giving up some things with moon-clips, so be aware, but it's an option if you are already ankle deep in 9mm ammo. I.E.Duty Ammo.
Just a thought. Certainly not THE solution.
TTR
I am always running a Glock 19 these days. As a smaller backup, I would look at a Glock 26, but I haven't needed it so haven't gotten around to picking one up as of late. And it's difficult to choose a J-frame over a baby Glock, but YMMV.
My go-to J-frame is an old S&W 940. It's a steel framed revolver so it isn't super light, is a J-Frame as stated, but is a 9mm and uses moon-clips. That way I can easily support it ammo wise and shoot it quite a bit. You are giving up some things with moon-clips, so be aware, but it's an option if you are already ankle deep in 9mm ammo. I.E.Duty Ammo.
Just a thought. Certainly not THE solution.
TTR
"Just remember this"...old song. But, NOBODY remembers recoil under fight/flight/shooting game conditions. In Mississippi, we have a concealed carry permit branch that is called "Enhanced". You have a 1 or 2 day course with lectures and range time. For that you get to carry almost anywhere...not courts with bad stuff going on...that sort of thing. When I took mine, I was recovering from hand surgery. The 1911 wouldn't work for me because of the grip safety. So, I used my snubbie S&W 66. When we went out for the range time, the instructor was working with the guys with semi's....clearing stoppages, bad feeds, poor ammo...he turned to me and said, "Go one and shoot all you want, you don't need this". One of the semi guys, said in response, "Why does he get a pass?" The instructor told him that, in case of a misfire, all he (me) has to do is pull the trigger again. Works for me.
Revolvers certainly can jam. IMO a revolver jam tends to be a major party foul.
TTR
TTR
If you consider buying a Ruger LCR I would suggest getting the .357 magnum model. The exterior size is the same but the .357 has a stainless steel frame ( weighs about 4oz more ). There have been a few reports of the alloy frame LCR / .38 with frame erosion. I have a .357 LCR and it my pocket carry gun when I am not wearing an over shirt / holstered pistol. The LCR is about the perfect pocket revolver and the trigger is very smooth. DAO and no hammer or anything to snag is a plus. Its a new design with a mix of materials and fit my big hand perfectly.
I am not a fan of magnum anything in alloy frames. If you want performance in a non-magnum look for a big bore like a .45 / .44. Still excellent stopping power and not as punishing launching them.
I am not a fan of magnum anything in alloy frames. If you want performance in a non-magnum look for a big bore like a .45 / .44. Still excellent stopping power and not as punishing launching them.
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