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Suppressors Looking for a new .45 CCW

ZLBubba

ZLBubba

Sergeant
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Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 15, 2009
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Maryland
Just found out my junker trunk is going to be purchased by a guy, meaning I've got some extra cash laying around for a new pistol. I've been looking at getting a Glock 30SF because of my midget hands. Still, if I go with a Glock, I'd have to get an aftermarket trigger. My price ranges is not much above $700 for this. I've got an APA 308 build that's coming soon so a tricked out 1911 is out of my price range at this point.

So here's my question: what CCW .45 do you recommend, and if it's a Glock, what aftermarket trigger do you suggest? Thanks.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

Take a look at the S&W M&P45 Compact. If you stick with Glock, the factory 3.5lb or Lone Wolf 3.5lb trigger bars both significantly improve things.


b
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

I've got a Sig full size that I love shooting. If I could find a reasonable 220 carry, I'd probably buy it. I've never shot any of the Kahrs. I'm interested in checking one out, but I'd definitely want to have some range time before I put money into one.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

I had a P220 Carry and liked it; although, for the weight to capacity trade-off, I decided to go back to a 1911 as I prefer that platform. Nothing against the 220, but it didn't work for my application as well as the 1911.

My brother has a M&P and I have been really impressed with it so I would at least check out the M&P 45C.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

ZLBubba,

I love mine, have never fired a full size p220, so I cant compare. But I got mine, in commifornia for 850 retail, after all the bullshit here, it cost 925 I think. I would imagine if someone did a search on gunbroker you could find a new used one for cheaper. If you ever come out this way (which I dont know why anyone would) drop me a line you are more than welcome to run mine through its paces. Good luck.

note, para ordance has some 1911s in the 500 range, cant remember if you said you wanted to shy away from them or not.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

My Glock 30 is a tack driver, swap in a 3.5 disconnector(20 bucks) and GlockWorx trigger spring kit(8 bucks), you will be well under your 700 dollar budget.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

Look up and perform the "25 cent" trigger job on the glock and leave it alone. Almost every glock I've ever seen have an issue at the range, in competition, or in courses has been screwed with by the owner stuffing aftermarket shit in it. Stuffing aftermarket parts in them is the fastest way to make a glock run like crap. If you just polish up some of the stock parts you can get a reasonably nice trigger pull. Pull weight is fine, reset is fine, it's not a competition gun that needs a hair trigger, it's a combat weapon. On top of that having a 100% stock gun is an advantage in court should you ever have to use it to defend yourself.

The 30SF is still too wide for me to get a really ideal grip on, I can shoot it okay, but not as well as I can shoot the 9/40 glocks or a 45 with a thinner frame. I won't run a 36 as I've seen too many problems with them, in fact it's the only glock local LEO is not allowed to run here.

Since you mention small hands *IF* you can get a great grip on the 30SF I'd say run it, if not I'd consider going down to a .40 with a smaller grip. Being able to initiate and maintain a ideal grip will be way more beneficial than the difference between calibers. Better placed and quicker .40 shots will trump slower and poorly placed (due to poor grip) .45 shots every time.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: garandman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kahr CW45 </div></div>

I agree with this one. I have the CW9 and it's a great gun. Night sights aren't available for it but otherwise its great. Slim and fits the hand perfectly.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ToddM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On top of that having a 100% stock gun is an advantage in court should you ever have to use it to defend yourself.</div></div>

I've heard this before, but never actually seen a reference to a case in which it was relevant. Do you have a reference?
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

judge3.jpg

The Judge, it's practical, tactical, and holds 5 rounds!

really though, I carry a glock 30, it is a bit heavy, but hey it's a .45. I agree with the reccommendation of keeping it stock. One less thing for the prosecution to attempt to fry you on in court.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

Nope, but I still feel it's best to error on the side of caution and appear as innocent and typical to a jury as possible. It's like illegally modifying a benelli M4 with an extended magazine tube. Has anyone been prosecuted for it? Nope, not that I know of....do I want to be the first guy that is? Nope. Would I want to have to go to court with an illegally modified M4 that I shot someone with in my defense, nope. It's all hypothetical though, I'm not a lawyer and I've never shot anyone.

However it's a pretty easy argument to make. It looks much better if you have to defend yourself in court (and if you shoot someone you will have to DEFEND yourself and your actions in court) with a stock gun and plain old ammo. Lawyers are not stupid, and they know all the tricks and sneaky ways to make you look bad to a jury. If I can think of it, I guarantee you lawyers have and will.

As opposed to say defending yourself with a gun that's been modified by the user. Which the safety and reliability of which can easy be called into question. Which is different than having a qualified gunsmith perform work on your gun.

It's amazing what can come out in court. The other side will try to paint you as a gun nut maniac who was just hoping someone would give you the opportunity to shoot them. For example, if they find (even jokingly made) posts, blogs, angry ex-gfs, that paint you in such a manner you will have to defend those posts, and they will find them. Ask any divorce lawyer how much they can and will dig up. If they can get all the dirt on you off of forums, facebook, emails etc. (and they do) you can bet a lawyer for a shooting can and will.

For example they may ask why you carried such and such ammo in your CCW. The best response is probably "Well I went to the gun store and asked for some good protection ammo and this is what they gave me". Not "Well I tried to find the most destructive and effective killing ammo against body armor wearing criminals I could find and this is what the research showed made the biggest baddest holes".

On the same note I'd much rather be able to go into court saying "Well I went to the gun store (one with a good wholesome family rep, not a class III or huge AR dealer etc) and asked for a good self defense gun and they showed me a few and I picked out the glock 30SF. I then asked about training and they recommended X, I then went to a CCW course or took other recommended training to become proficient with it. Again I wouldn't want to get trained by a place that advertises itself as a psudo military or tactical gun nut place to attract mall ninja types.

You want to be able to deflect your actions onto the recommendations of reputable wholesome businesses that will look good to the jury and paint you as a rational logical typical person who is the victim trying to protect yourself. Not as someone who went out of their way to research and build a better killing weapon who laid awake nights hoping to get the opportunity to shoot someone. Does that suck...yep sure does, but that's the reality these days.

Now lets get really ugly.....lets say that you are attacked, you shoot and things go wrong. Maybe you put a round through the guy attacking you and it hits someone else, or maybe one round goes astray and strikes an innocent. Now if you modified that gun, lets say you reduced the trigger pull, well they can easily get people to testify that in such a situation your fine motor skills are GONE and having a hair trigger caused that round to go off when you didn't want it to, and by reducing the trigger pull that's your fault. Or that ammo you so extensively tested was known to over penetrate and you should have known that having done all your research on it.

It's all hypothetical, 99.9999% of people that carry never have to use it anyway. But you are in a much better position if you simply buy a stock gun, leave it alone, and buy some nice boring ammo that a gun store recommended, get some good training, and carry it.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

You just saved me 20 minutes worth of typing.

A G 30, 30SF and even th G 36. I carry and shoot mine weekly and never have an isue with my G 36. I also carried my G 21 concealed for about 4 years.

Save the race gun stuf for IPSC or IDPA.

My $.02
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

I appreciate the feedback. When we did our requisite CCW class, the instructor made the same point of carrying standard plinking ammo instead of hollowpoints. Here's my problem: I reload my own ammo and I'm in the military. I don't really think I can play dumb in the gun department very well. Then again, we all know the courtroom is all about acting, not reality.

I'm going to try and make it to the range this weekend. One range close-by has rentals, but the problem, as you all know, is that those pistols have been beat to shit. It may not be a

If I decide to go with a .40, I think my first choice would be the 239. The only thing about a Glock that I really like is the mag capacity. In a compact package, its hard to beat that much mag capacity in a concealable pistol, IMO.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

If you're willing to spend the money, nothing beats the Vanek trigger for a Glock. Even the USPSA production legal one is amazing.

I think the entire thing about using factory ammo in a CCW is crap, personally.

I'd suggest a shorter barreled/alloy frame 1911 as my personal choice.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

KAHR makes a excellent CCW. I have a PM45 I carry in warm weather months with a cross breed mini tuck holster. Very accurate for such a short barrel and I have no problem with it's recoil. If you want more mag capacity go with a CW45.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

Also take a look at the HK45C. You can find them for a little over your $700 mark in new condition and they are an excellent pistol. Mine has been 100% reliable and carries as well as my Glock G19. 8rnd of .45 isn't bad and you can carry factory 10rnd mags as spares if you need more firepower. The 45C is almost the same size as the G-19 as well. Try one if you can. If you're not willing to spend a little more, pick up a Glock. Works every time and they're pretty darn accurate.

CMS
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

All the HK 45C I've seen are over 800 new and used.
If your finding them around $700 please let me know where I'm looking to pick one up.

What about a Springfield XD45? That might work for something below the $700 price point.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ThreeMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All the HK 45C I've seen are over 800 new and used.
If your finding them around $700 please let me know where I'm looking to pick one up.

What about a Springfield XD45? That might work for something below the $700 price point.</div></div>
Thats what i was thinking to myself as i was reading down the page. I love my xd....concealable? In winter....But for summer i agree the Kahr pm 45 is kinda punishing to shoot but hey its a carry gun right? shoot it enough to stay confident and that should do the trick!
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think the entire thing about using factory ammo in a CCW is crap, personally.

</div></div>
There is a good article in the new guns and ammo handgun magazine i read today that says to stay away from handloads for personal protection because their not available for testing and with all the foresenic stuff today its not smart. Stay with some off the shelf sd ammo.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

Someone carrying, and using, a concealed firearm will have trouble appearing typical to a jury, regardless of the state of their firearm. Your example of illegal modifications to a weapon seem not so relevant as nobody is suggesting any such thing. I can speculate and apply all manner of rationalizations to almost any choice, too. My question is what facts do we have on this? So far, the answer is none.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

Another vote for the Kahr pm45. No regrets yet. Size one up.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

The lack of a clear case precedent on the issue in my mind doesn't mean the logic is unsound.

The point of the M4 was simply that whenever someone brings something like this up everyone just says that I'm not going to worry about it because no one's been prosecuted for it yet. This is the exact same logic, while not an illegal weapon modification, rationalizing making a gun potentially less safe in the eyes of a jury by modifying it is okay as long as no one can find a case where someone been prosecuted for it is just stupid.

It's simply good insurance and only serves to help yourself. Talk to lawyers, spend time in the court system, they make their living manipulating people and juries and finding little things like this to pick apart and win a case. I've seen cases turned 100% around on less. Why give them more ammo against you than you need to? Especially as I said if things go wrong and/or you end up in civil court against a huge $$$ lawyer.

If you use a standard non-modified gun, with simple factory recommended carry ammo, you've removed all possibility that having a user modified weapon or reloaded ammo be brought up in court. The more simple and clear cut I can make a day in court to defend a defensive shooting the better.

If you don't agree, do whatever ya want, as for me I'll error on the side of an easier day in court.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My price ranges is not much above $700 for this. I've got an APA 308 build that's coming soon so a tricked out 1911 is out of my price range at this point.</div></div>

Maybe not. My last 1911 buy was a Kimber Eclipse Ultra, unfired, for $649. Check the used counters and you can find some good deals.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

Just tried out the XD, the G30SF, and a Kimber at the range. The Kimber felt the best, but had repeated jams. The Glock 30SF fit my hands a lot better. Looks like a Glock is in my future.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

Have to admit that I'm really predjudiced when it comes to a CCW. It has to be safe yet fast so my choice is a 1911. I have three, but my CCW weapon is on the upper right, a Stainless Kimber Pro Carry II with a 3 in Barrel.

CCP.jpg
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

For under $700ish:

(1) get a new or used Springer GI 1911 (upgrade the sights now) and customize everything else later; or

(2) a used SIG P245 (now rebranded P220 carry) and a few extra mags

30SF is nice, but the two options above will give you more options for trigger work/customization IMHO (plus more holster options w/ the 1911).
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

So yesterday I went to a gun show so that I could get my mitts on all the pistols I'm considering. I am honestly farther from a decision now than I was before I left. First off, I realized that setting the $700 price ceiling is somewhat arbitrary considering that if I found the right pistol for $800, I'd buy it and be in the doghouse with my wife.

The pistols I liked yesterday were the Sig 220C and the HK USP 45. It had a nice trigger and seemed like a natural pointer. I also liked the HK Compact USP 45 (single stack). It felt just about perfect in my hand, but it's spendy.

I found a Glock 30SF and frankly there wasn't much difference in feel from the 30 model. The 45 caliber Glocks have always felt a bit awkward, and while they're good guns, I'm starting to see they're not the pistols for me. The 40 S&W glocks may be my only options if I still want that make. More to follow.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

I carry different handguns depending on the time of the year. For winter, full size Kimber Custom 2 with extended slide and magazine release. For summer, Colt New Agent. The New Agent replaced a Glock 27 last year. If you get the "plus one" for the glock it extends the grip enough for your pinky, and is still very easy to conceal.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just tried out the XD, the G30SF, and a Kimber at the range. The Kimber felt the best, but had repeated jams. The Glock 30SF fit my hands a lot better. Looks like a Glock is in my future.

</div></div>

You guys should try my patented Kimber Red Neck Carry Preparation Process....

1. Safety first, lock and clear your weapon, set all ammo off the table.

2. Disassemble your pistol and on the rails of the lower, place a few dabs of cheap white toothpaste. Not the special scope impregnated kind, just the cheap stuff you get from the airlines. A few dabs up and down each side.

3. Completely reassemble your pistol.

4. Using opposing pressure, rack the slide back and forth as if the pistol was firing. Don't let it slam each time and don't rack the slide and let it loose, the goal is to get the slide to ride along the rails and begin to lap the slide to the rails. Do this in sets of 50 so you don't get cramped up.

5. CAUTION: For all of you cube rats, physical exercise can cause you severe discomfort. Stop immediately if you have chest pains or feel dizzy.

6. After about 250 - 400 repetitions of this, disassemble your pistol. This action takes the place of shooting 200 - 300 "break in" rounds and also better matches the slide to the rails. You should see, especially if you have a thick coating like on the CDP series or the covert series, where the finish is starting to wear away. That shows the microscopic high spots that will cause your pistol to malfunction.

7. Clean your pistol, remove all of the grayish gummy shit that has now collected along your slide and rails. Apply your lubricant of choice (I prefer "Gun Butter") to include the rails and slide and then reassemble.

I do this to every Kimber I have ever owned and it works like a champ. I shoot Wolf steel cased ammo and blazer Al cases on my range and while I may have some issues, I blame it on the ammo as I have similar issues with Glocks, Sigs, Smith etc and when using brass, they run like sewing machines.

Make sure you don't share this with anyone as it is patented.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I found a Glock 30SF and frankly there wasn't much difference in feel from the 30 model. The 45 caliber Glocks have always felt a bit awkward, and while they're good guns, I'm starting to see they're not the pistols for me. The 40 S&W glocks may be my only options if I still want that make. More to follow. </div></div>

Try a G 36 before you give up on the Glock .45's. Trust me I have one of each in the actual and SF models and I know what you mean. Trust me at least try a G 36. As mentioned above, the pinky extension works wonders on this gun as well.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

I have about 2000 rounds through my Kimber and have never had a problem. Not a single jam even during the "break-in peroid". I just don't use the magazines that come with it.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

kimber ultra carry II i picked one up used under 700 bucks. i also have a detonics i picked up for under 700
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

I have had alot of problems with my kimber ultra not feeding the second round. What magazines do you use
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

Just get yourself an STI Spartan and some mags. $700 isn't much to work with, but the STI is way nicer than any Taurus or Springfield GI.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

Factory mags the only feeding problem I ever had was federal hydroshocks the flat edge of the round was hitting the feed ramp and stoping . So I polished the ramp and no more problem
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wefite4u</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have about 2000 rounds through my Kimber and have never had a problem. Not a single jam even during the "break-in peroid". I just don't use the magazines that come with it. </div></div>. Well you have had better luck then I. 2 kimbers and I have had problems with both. Go with an STI and be done with it.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Inline 6</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wefite4u</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have about 2000 rounds through my Kimber and have never had a problem. Not a single jam even during the "break-in peroid". I just don't use the magazines that come with it. </div></div>. Well you have had better luck then I. 2 kimbers and I have had problems with both. Go with an STI and be done with it. </div></div>

As a person who owns both Kimbers and an STI, I don't think it's fair to say that. The quality of even a newer Kimber is comparable to everything else in its price range.

STI makes some exceptional guns at a very good price, but so does Kimber. One of mine has many thousands of rounds through it in competition and on the range and has never had any legitimate issue.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sig 220 carry, accurate, 8+1, rail, night sites.</div></div>
I handled one of these recently, seemed like a great gun felt really solid. How much did these go for when you guys picked one up?
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

I picked a used one that looked like it had a hundred rounds through it for $550. I had it polymer coated and night sights installed, it shoots evrything and is very accurate. I used it for a CCW for years until I went back to a 1911. The only reason I went back to a 1911 is that I shoot them in competition. I carry a 1911 or a PM-45 for warm weather.

Chris
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

I actually like the SIG p245 for carry. You can still get them on those website auctions! Great shooting pistol.
 
Re: Looking for a new .45 CCW

i carry my operater, and i dont conceal shit!!!

seriously though. i need to get a concealable handgun...i have been a LEO for over 5 years now and have never carried a "off duty" weapon...except for the various cannons i keep in my truck...if i am attacked inside my truck off duty i am good...

bench
 
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