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Night Vision Looking for a scope for cyotes

Rotortuner

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 15, 2008
898
6
WA, USA
OK so I am really looking to get into some night vision. I have looked at it for years but never pulled the trigger. Got close a couple times, but didnt find the right setup. My primary mission is to kill a bunch of cyotes. I will be hunting in the 100-300yd range and trying to bait and call them in. I have an AR10 or a AR15 that I will be using as the platform. Most likely just the AR15. I need to be able to identify these at the specified range. I have been looking a lot at D740's, some used in the 2500-3k range. Are these good units for what I want to do? Should I be fearful of buying one of these used? read some about them not holding zero or maybe being a little fragile? But i see a lot of positive reports on here. help me out with what willl be best for my purposes.

CJG
 
There are plenty of members here with more experience than I, but I have been down a similar path. I had the same criteria as you and I started with a Night Optics D-740. The 740 was a great dedicated scope if that fits your needs; however, the downside is that it is big and heavy. At first I thought it would be fine to sit in my pastures in the prone position a just wait, but coyotes are smart, dynamic critters. If the D-740 is your only NV aid, then you will have to do all your scanning with your whole rifle setup, which gets really heavy and cumbersome. I also did not have a 100% dedicated night rifle, so I had to remove my day optic and mount my D-740 every night and that got old.
Not to bore you with my story, but I eventually moved to a Night Optics D930 (clip on type unit). This also was a great unit as far as performance and alleviated the need to remove my day optic and reduced overall weight a little, but I ran into the same problem of this being limited to static hunting. I ended up with a helmet mounted PVS-14 with weapon mounted IR laser/illuminator. The PVS is so versatile.
In the end you have to see what works for you. With a quality PVS-14, you can ID targets at the range you are talking about with a PVS-14 in a rural hunting environment. I wouldn't say you could ID or I would try to ID at that range in a LE environment, but for IDing coyotes, it's fine. The D-740 is a great unit and it's better for long range, but in my opinion, it's better paired with a NV monocular or thermal unit for scanning/IDing.
 
^^^^^^^^^this is exactly right. Good advice. Get a 14 then add a dedicated or clip on down the road.
 
There are plenty of members here with more experience than I, but I have been down a similar path. I had the same criteria as you and I started with a Night Optics D-740. The 740 was a great dedicated scope if that fits your needs; however, the downside is that it is big and heavy. At first I thought it would be fine to sit in my pastures in the prone position a just wait, but coyotes are smart, dynamic critters. If the D-740 is your only NV aid, then you will have to do all your scanning with your whole rifle setup, which gets really heavy and cumbersome. I also did not have a 100% dedicated night rifle, so I had to remove my day optic and mount my D-740 every night and that got old.
Not to bore you with my story, but I eventually moved to a Night Optics D930 (clip on type unit). This also was a great unit as far as performance and alleviated the need to remove my day optic and reduced overall weight a little, but I ran into the same problem of this being limited to static hunting. I ended up with a helmet mounted PVS-14 with weapon mounted IR laser/illuminator. The PVS is so versatile.
In the end you have to see what works for you. With a quality PVS-14, you can ID targets at the range you are talking about with a PVS-14 in a rural hunting environment. I wouldn't say you could ID or I would try to ID at that range in a LE environment, but for IDing coyotes, it's fine. The D-740 is a great unit and it's better for long range, but in my opinion, it's better paired with a NV monocular or thermal unit for scanning/IDing.

Thank you very much for the reply. I was going to put it into my original post but forgot, i do have an AR that can be dedicated to night hunting so if something stays on it thats fine.

OK now for the 740 vs pvs14, does a helmut mounted 14 and IR illuminator/laser work really well? I havent ever used one before, so do you really shoulder the rifle or is the 14 in the way and you kinda fire from the hip? Also at 100-200 yards can you see the IR laser on the cyotes good enough to get good shots?

Because i live here in WA, we have pretty tall trees and the cyotes im looking to get will really be in one specific spot, we dont have huge fields here to scan, but i get what you mean with scanning with the rifle. I am also trying to decide between buying used vs new night vision. I could almost get an used PVS14 and a used 740 for the price of a brand new 740. So im trying to decide that as well. any info is appreciated.
 
I think having a PVS-14 and a D-740 would be great (best of both worlds), I just have not had the funds to aquire both units simultaneously. As far as purchasing used NV equipment; I think you can get some good equipment at good prices; however, if you go that route, try and limit your risk by purchasing from trusted sources (i.e. maybe from Snipershide members that post fequently and you have a good feeling for how they treat their equipment). I have sold three units (the D-740, D-930, and a PVS-14) used and they were like brand new, never abused. One piece of advice, if I may is to contact Franky (member ASM1) with ASM and possibly see about getting a PVS-14 with grade B (blemished) tube. Franky gets some blemished tubes with great specs. for very reasonable prices. Plus he is a great guy and will treat you right. I used to have one of his blemished tubes and for the discounted price, loved it! If I were going to have a PVS and D-740, I think I would just get a blemished PVS for scanning and aquiring target and then make the shot with the D-740. If your hunting dictates more D-740 use (meaning as you said, the coyotes will be in one spot primarily) then why not save some money and get a discounted PVS.
 
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Have you considered a entry level thermal such as a Flir Scout 32 for detection?

I tested one for a few months last spring for hog hunting, sure makes finding them a LOT easier than even good Gen 3 NVG.
 
I have looked through a flir 32 for about 3 minutes at cabelas, hard to tell how good it is inside a big building. Looking at cabelas return policy, looks like its 60 days on electronics and optics, so that could be a free trial period.. An option but a little out of my budget if i couple that with a used d740.

How affective can you be with a PVS14 on a helmut and a DBAL rail mounted on an AR15? Can yotes be hit on the run at 100-150?

CJG
 
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In all honesty if you are really trying to hunt coyotes, go with a pS32 and D740, the PVS14 will not give you the detection even with a 3-5x mag on it for scanning without IR to pick up the eyes it is not that hard to scan with a D740 and IR on the gun if you set up on a tripod. Locate with thermal without IR light ID and shoot NV with IR. I hunted coyotes with PS32 and a led red light on my gun for a long time and it worked well, went to NV cause I was locating game with thermal I couldn’t ID with a light.
 
I run a D740 w/IRK2 unit and have the Flir ps32 for early detection. I shot 117 coyote last year w/this setup and dropped 27 so far in the last 2 months.
I shot 7 off hand at just under 180 yards also.
I have it mounted on a MMR AR15 20" bbl. Nothing that heavy IMO that you need to worry about.
I have dropped a coyote @ 380 yards w/the D740 and the IR when needed that time.
I use a tripod cheap stool when calling in tall grass & sit on the ground in Agri spots along w/my homemade shooting sticks.
I have had NO issues at all w/mine to date, holds zero. I did bust off the front cover at the hinge, (It looks like a cheap butler creek flip up to me though) but it was replaced under warrantee.
Pretty much what Impactzone stated above.
 
I, too, am looking at nv and thermal for predator hunting. A lot of folks are recommending thermal for detection and NV for ID/shot. This makes sense but I'm still confused. How are you navigating in the dark from stand to stand? I may walk miles at a time and cant/ won't walk with the thermal or weapon to my eye the entire time. That is impractical and dangerous. Do I need a helmet setup, handheld thermal and weapon-mounted NV? Is it possible to make this happen without being a major f-ing PIA?
 
I, too, am looking at nv and thermal for predator hunting. A lot of folks are recommending thermal for detection and NV for ID/shot. This makes sense but I'm still confused. How are you navigating in the dark from stand to stand? I may walk miles at a time and cant/ won't walk with the thermal or weapon to my eye the entire time. That is impractical and dangerous. Do I need a helmet setup, handheld thermal and weapon-mounted NV? Is it possible to make this happen without being a major f-ing PIA?

Thought I would chime in. You're right on track about thermal vs. NV. You're also correct navigating can also be hazardous holding thermal up to your eye at times for general close in movement and also pointing your gun at everything you want to look at. Pure NV devices mounted on your head is really the best way to navigate in extremely dark environments.

Obviously budgets are always a concern for most and do not have the luxury of head mounted NV, thermal such as the PS-32 around your neck and a dedicated NV weapon on your gun. Another way to do the navigating for walking if really dark out there is to also wear a light weight cheap helmet such as the PT Bravo's and use a dim red light Princeton Tech for assisting with dark navigation a few feet down in front of your feet.

This may be another option for you.
 
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I use a red Led Xlr 100 to navigate most of the time on a helmet , works really well to and from stands
 
In all honesty if you are really trying to hunt coyotes, go with a pS32 and D740, the PVS14 will not give you the detection even with a 3-5x mag on it for scanning without IR to pick up the eyes it is not that hard to scan with a D740 and IR on the gun if you set up on a tripod. Locate with thermal without IR light ID and shoot NV with IR. I hunted coyotes with PS32 and a led red light on my gun for a long time and it worked well, went to NV cause I was locating game with thermal I couldn’t ID with a light.

i completely disagree with this. I have had the absolute best luck with my 14 helmet mounted. The areas here in Ohio are much better supported by 14 on the head. It's generally a very dynamic situation calling around here at night and yotes come quick or not at all. A dedicated weapon site is nice and useful but not near as nice to scan and be ready to shoot. I've had plenty of instances where there literally was no time to let go of the thermal and switch to a weapon sight especially if you're trying to be stealthy about it all. Detection has never been any issue for me with a 14 and even better with a 3x on it. Anyone who has hunted enough with nods knows game, fur and anything that isn't natural sticks out like a big black dick. Add the ir and eyes are easy. If I could only have one night time device it would be a pvs14 without question.
 
i completely disagree with this. I have had the absolute best luck with my 14 helmet mounted. The areas here in Ohio are much better supported by 14 on the head. It's generally a very dynamic situation calling around here at night and yotes come quick or not at all. A dedicated weapon site is nice and useful but not near as nice to scan and be ready to shoot. I've had plenty of instances where there literally was no time to let go of the thermal and switch to a weapon sight especially if you're trying to be stealthy about it all. Detection has never been any issue for me with a 14 and even better with a 3x on it. Anyone who has hunted enough with nods knows game, fur and anything that isn't natural sticks
out like a big black dick. Add the ir and eyes are easy. If I could only have one night time device it would be a pvs14 without question.
I've had a pvs mounted behind 2 different day optics, a scope and an aimpoint T-1 micro, finally put it on my head and went with a laser. I agree with killswitch, I hunt in Ohio too. Small fields not much room to shoot 300 plus yards. So I don't need much magnification. I'm pleased with my pvs14 , d-bal d-2 laser and ps32 they fit my needs. If I were out west able to shoot 500+ yards then my needs would change.
 
i completely disagree with this. I have had the absolute best luck with my 14 helmet mounted. The areas here in Ohio are much better supported by 14 on the head. It's generally a very dynamic situation calling around here at night and yotes come quick or not at all. A dedicated weapon site is nice and useful but not near as nice to scan and be ready to shoot. I've had plenty of instances where there literally was no time to let go of the thermal and switch to a weapon sight especially if you're trying to be stealthy about it all. Detection has never been any issue for me with a 14 and even better with a 3x on it. Anyone who has hunted enough with nods knows game, fur and anything that isn't natural sticks out like a big black dick. Add the ir and eyes are easy. If I could only have one night time device it would be a pvs14 without question.
. So you are running a head-mounted 14 only with a RDS or have a weapon mounted NV scope also? Thanks
 
Tactics and techniques for coyote are dictated by your environment, and they differ from East to West from what I understand. I have never hunted Eastern coyotes, I often hear from those that do, that it is different. I disagree that (anything that is not natural will stand out like a big black dick). The truth is anything that is camouflage in the daylight will be camouflage at night, you see this in just about every add for thermal. Nods does not give you the ability to see different materials differently, or to distinguish between fur and grass, yes the IR will light up eyes with ease and is often what you’re looking for over that big black dick.
I don’t know what is considered dynamic coyote hunting? I dropped a hard charger under 30 yards the other night going from my FLIR to my D760 with no problem in the transition and 6x was not a problem at that short of range, this coyote came in from behind and upwind and had passed me and would have never let me see his eye in IR unless I was looking behind me at the moment he was approching. I may have been better suited with my 14 and IR on the gun for the shot itself ?

The hard part is putting the coyote where you want him for the shot. You can see him with numerous devices and systems. You will have to look at your environment and see what will perform best for you, but Thermal is by far better for locating game than NV gear
 
I really don't use supplemental IR that much especially in open fields. Sorry impactzone but just about every game animal I've looked at through nods looks very contrasting to the surroundings and are generally easy to spot. Now under IR things blend back together if you're not seeing eyes. I won't argue that your method doesn't work and I know mine does as well. I'm killing dogs either way and that's all that matters. If you feel more comfy behind an optic then using a laser that's great. I've used and tried every method with success and failure and the helmet/laser is my win about every time.
 


I have used gun mounted lasers in the past with pvs14 and probable will again, I picked up this hog at 60 yards with FLIR then tried like hell to find him in the 14 to no avail, till he was in the open, was using a visible laser on a 1873 Springfield 45-70 just for fun, the 4 hogs that came into the bait didn't seem to mind or even notice the vis laser nor did the raccoons, I as well, do not use IR illuminator till ID is required or the shot if needed, seen to many coyotes shy on the glow from the IR, but have needed it many times to ID deer with only their heads above the grass and fence line looking just like a coyote profile. your right the IR does seem the make the picture blend in if the eyes are not visible.

the OP sounded like hunting over bait and calling? WA has some very open fields and high dessert area as well as thick costal rain forest, open plain or over bait I'd go dedicated scope, thick costal forest I may go PVS14 and laser? I have both systems and use both and decide on the tool I use on the environment
 
if its a bait pile/static ambush rock that dedicated scope cause that is a no brainer for sure. hell i like partnering up and having one dedicated sight and one heads up unit is tits.
 
Thanks guys for all the insght, deffenitely seams like there is pros and cons to the different setups and people switch back and forth between different setups as well. I ended up picking up a used 740 in good shape thats still in warrenty from a forum member its a gen 3 IIT tubed manual gain scope with no spec sheet (night optics standard), but the price seamed pretty good and Im getting an inspection period. So I will give this a shot, my plan is to bait them and basically just watch the bait with the scope. looking to ad a ps32 and a pvs 14 sometimenext year, but for now im going to give this a try. I think the PVS-14 and IR laser on my supressed glock 21 would be a pretty lethal combo for anything inside of 50yds too. Anybody use IR laser on a pistol for close in hunting?

CJG
 


I have used gun mounted lasers in the past with pvs14 and probable will again, I picked up this hog at 60 yards with FLIR then tried like hell to find him in the 14 to no avail, till he was in the open, was using a visible laser on a 1873 Springfield 45-70 just for fun, the 4 hogs that came into the bait didn't seem to mind or even notice the vis laser nor did the raccoons, I as well, do not use IR illuminator till ID is required or the shot if needed, seen to many coyotes shy on the glow from the IR, but have needed it many times to ID deer with only their heads above the grass and fence line looking just like a coyote profile. your right the IR does seem the make the picture blend in if the eyes are not visible.

the OP sounded like hunting over bait and calling? WA has some very open fields and high dessert area as well as thick costal rain forest, open plain or over bait I'd go dedicated scope, thick costal forest I may go PVS14 and laser? I have both systems and use both and decide on the tool I use on the environment

LoL on the blaster Phil. Just a classic pic!! For awhile there I thought you were part of our filming with "Alexanders Bridge!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLPDG8bQlLU
 
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Thanks guys for all the insght, deffenitely seams like there is pros and cons to the different setups and people switch back and forth between different setups as well. I ended up picking up a used 740 in good shape thats still in warrenty from a forum member its a gen 3 IIT tubed manual gain scope with no spec sheet (night optics standard), but the price seamed pretty good and Im getting an inspection period. So I will give this a shot, my plan is to bait them and basically just watch the bait with the scope. looking to ad a ps32 and a pvs 14 sometimenext year, but for now im going to give this a try. I think the PVS-14 and IR laser on my supressed glock 21 would be a pretty lethal combo for anything inside of 50yds too. Anybody use IR laser on a pistol for close in hunting?

CJG

YOU BET! Old story with this rig below with a 14 head mounted....Rural neighborhood where the Yotes were NOT scared of humans, ran in packs and would not flinch easy. They killed a lot of pets at the onset with the local Sheriff Dept. just scattering them with the car headlights most times. I confronted 3 on one such night about 30 yards away as I stood in the middle of our dirt road, it was like a draw down from a Clint Eastwood movie! Needless to say their (Yotes) eagerness to prey in their normal areas was limited after a months worth....

Nowadays we have a local orange grove with all sorts of close in small varmints for stealth probes! ;-)

photo4_zpsbdef64f4.jpg
 
That 22 is pretty cool. I actually have a buchmark with a tacsol barrel and run a aac element on it. its movies quiet and pretty cool. Deffinetly going to add a PVS 14 and a pistol with IR at some point.

CJG
 
Hey Vic, Does the Aimpoint work well with your nod or is the laser a better option?

Hi ya, sorry for the delay...Did not see your post until now. I strictly use the laser with my head mounted NODS, blinding fast and deadly accurate. Difficult to align the T1 in a hurry with target acquisition, and when you do, some POA/POI shifts can occur.

Now with that said, when I am wearing my PVS-21's (not looking through an actual intensifier TUBE), I can pic up the T1 very fast along with exceptional target acquisition. I just love my 21's for this! :-D

Vic
 
I'm in the same boat as the original poster knowing nothing about what I need, other that I need something NOW! A few nights ago, 3 yotes got with-in 50 yards of my house and tried to have my prize beagle/rabbit dog & good buddy for dinner. The only thing that saved him was 5 rapid shots of #4 BS out of my Browning A-5. In the same week a guy on a lawn mower was attacked in broad day light by a pack of 3 song dogs. Needless to say, they aren't afraid of humans in my area. I have a M4 in 300 BLK with a EOTech 552 NV compatible mounted on it. I'm going to bait them with road kill deer and shoot them at a known distance from the comfort of my 2nd floor office window in my house. If someone can steer me to the products I need, I would be forever grateful.
Thanks,
Lloyd
 
i ended up buying a d740 used and got a pretty good deal on it. i have had it for a week or so. if there is moon out or even just stars you will easily be able to see coyotes without ir. out to a 100yds it is really pretty clear. if you can hear coyotes and you think they are there, youll be able to see them. however, if your looking to go out and call and wait, your going to want thermal also. like the advice above, ill confirm that scanning with the sight mounted on the gun is not optimal. for 10-15 minutes it works fine, but for any duration, thermal would be a huge help and a ps32 is next on my list to add. i have the 740 on an a 16" ar15, it was pretty easy to sight in at 50yds on a box with a black dot and then last night i went out and shot a 8x8 piece of steel at 125 yds. there was just stars and it was kind of in the shadows and the steel was a little difficult to see but i drilled it no problem on the first shot. im supposed to be getting an ir torch sometimes next week and im excited to see if that makes a huge difference out to 200-300 yds. the 740 i got has the manual gain and i like being able to adjust the intensity. this scope did not have a datasheet but there is pretty much no blems and i have only ever looked through a couple other gen 2 scopes a couple years back and this blows those away. do your research, i think there are some good deals on used nv gear, just have to be careful and make sure to get something thats been taken care of and in warrenty is good too. you can save a lot of money buying used, but like anything there is risk associated.
 
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Thanks rotortuner for your reply. Here is the problem. For once in the few times in my life I'm trying to research a subject that I know absolutely nothing about. It's not like you can go to your local sporting goods store and actually do a hands on comparison. I have to trust the knowledge of people like you and "Vic" to steer us newbies in the right direction. I'm so new to this I don't even know what questions to ask! So, that said, I see a lot of posts that mention the D-740. What is it? A scope, add on monocular to mount behind my EOTech? Who carries this equipment and where would a person look to get a used on with confidence? Sorry for all the questions, but I wan these coyotes DRT! I'm reading but speaking for myself, I need a NV education now.
Thanks for any help,
Lloyd
 
Ohio1shot, I live in central Ohio. My hunting terrain consists of small woodlots in the middle of crop fields. I do wonder to southern Ohio in the vast hills and timber ground. I use a helmet mounted PVS14 and a Dbal D-2 IR laser. I'll tell u why I use this set up. The helmet mount PVS14 allows for stealth navigation to and from calling set up. The IR laser allows for nice shots standing and running, out to 200-250 yrd, my terrain doesn't allow for shots over that yardage. The Dbal D-2 laser has a built in IR light, this IR can b compared with the best on the market. Another thing I like is the PVS14 is the most versatile NV devise on the market. It can be head mounted, and or weapon mounted. I'm by no means saying this is the best setup, what I'm saying is it fits my hunting needs. It just seem that using a dedicated NV scope, 1-would get quite tire some scanning with the scope, and 2- doesnt seem to very safe pointing your gun around in all directions scanning through the scope at night. If I lived out west in the open terrain, then I'm sure I would have a NV scope on my rig, but the small and suburb areas I call it seem to be the set up that fits my needs the best.
PVS14-$3000
Dbal laser with IR $1100-$1500
Helmet and mount $500
 
Loggers Inn,
Like I said earlier, I don't know anything about NV equipment. I was hoping to find something to mount behind my EO Tech or a stand alone gen.2+. My budget as a LEO just won't allow for the set up you have. What is the D-740 I'm reading about on these posts? BTW, I'm North of you in the Mansfield area.
 
Just a note on what I just bought. I called Optics Planet with a 4x low end gen 1 in mind. I asked Chris if he had any recomendations which he did. A Yukon 1.5x on sale for $337/shipped. It's small, light, well built & works great. I can see 150 yards & shoot 100 easy which was my goal as it's going on a rimfire with a can. Also the small size & weight it makes a great handheld unit. It uses 2 AA batteries & I see no spots at all & very clear. Also has a lifetime warrenty.Moral of the story I,d call them & ask their advice. I realize your looking for a better more costlier unit but I could not be happier.
 
Loggers Inn,
Like I said earlier, I don't know anything about NV equipment. I was hoping to find something to mount behind my EO Tech or a stand alone gen.2+. My budget as a LEO just won't allow for the set up you have. What is the D-740 I'm reading about on these posts? BTW, I'm North of you in the Mansfield area.
u could mount a pvs14 behind your EO Tech and have NV optic. I have a buddy that scans with a PVS then ready to engage he quickly mounts it to his AR. Some time this isn't so quickly at night since u can see how's it's being mounted, it's more touchy, feely mounting. It works, just sometimes dawgs come running in so fast it's hard to mount and then find them again through he optic and make a shot. It can b done but it's gotta b quick transaction. Back to your other question d-740. It's a 3x gen3 NV scope.
 
ohio1shot

if you go to the thread (show us your nv gear and kills) you will see just about every possible NV set up and general a short description