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Looking for known accurate 223 loads

Accuracy to me is most important. I can always compensate for bullet drop and wind since most real world shots will be within 300 yards anyway. The bottomline for me is cost savings since everything in priced well off the chart for the average income person. I have to be able to have fun and keep the skills up at minimum cost. Ops, I just had a thought. Has any tried to vibrate the cartridge to be loading during the powder throwing process to get the flacks or cylindrical formed powder to settle into place to make more room in the cartridge or avoid a compressed load. Maybe a machine like a ultrasonic transducer or even a medical vial shaker? Thanks
If you are only going out to 300 yards I would go with 4064 for both rifles . It's a well known powder for .308 and works just fine in .223 with the right load . I am not sure on max charge for your .223 bullet but if you are worried about crunching sticks of 4064 you can use a drop tube, etc . .

05_liten.jpg
 
If you are only going out to 300 yards I would go with 4064 for both rifles . It's a well known powder for .308 and works just fine in .223 with the right load . I am not sure on max charge for your .223 bullet but if you are worried about crunching sticks of 4064 you can use a drop tube, etc . .

05_liten.jpg
Is this a means of loading from the bottom up instead of just dumping it in. Can I achieve the same thing by taking the brass I just dumped the powder into and place the base onto a circular vibrating surface like your brass tumble tube with my thumb over the mouth. To me it's the same as when we vibrate wet concrete to get it to compact more. What's your thoughts..
 
I would go with a ball powder and use a powder thrower. If your looking to vibrate powder to fit more in a case I would just use a old electric toothbrush and hold it up against the case.
 
I would go with a ball powder and use a powder thrower. If your looking to vibrate powder to fit more in a case I would just use a old electric toothbrush and hold it up against the case.
Yes, the idea is to use a load the manual calls for but if it looks like its going to be a compress load vibrate the case a bit with you thumb over the mouth so it does not spit out the top in order to get the powder to settle better and make more room therefore avoid crushing a grains. Never thought of an old electric toothbrush.
 
Please tell me what type of scope you are using.

The above groups were fired using a Leupold 8.5–25x scope. However, don’t be discouraged because of a lack of magnification. Precision shooting with an AR-15 is first, foremost and always about consistently executing the fundamentals of marksmanship. Good groups can still be obtained with lower magnification (or even no magnification at all.)

The 10-shot group pictured below was firing from my Noveske RECON at 100 yards using a Schmidt & Bender Short Dot LE with a magnification of 4x. The group has an extreme spread of 0.78”








The next 10-shot group was fired from one of my Krieger barreled AR-15s at 100 yards using Ultradyne back-up iron sights. This group has an extreme spread of 0.71”.



ultradyne_buis_10_shot_group_at_100_yard-2793265.jpg






 
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The above groups were fired using a Leupold 8.5–25x scope. However, don’t be discouraged because of a lack of magnification. Precision shooting with an AR-15 is first, foremost and always about consistently executing the fundamentals of marksmanship. Good groups can still be obtained with lower magnification (or even no magnification at all.)

The 10-shot group pictured below was firing from my Noveske RECON at 100 yards using a Schmidt & Bender Short Dot LE with a magnification of 4x. The group has an extreme spread of 0.78”








The next 10-shot group was fired from one of my Krieger barreled AR-15s at 100 yards using Ultradyne back-up iron sights. This group has an extreme spread of 0.71”.



ultradyne_buis_10_shot_group_at_100_yard-2793265.jpg






Very nice groups on both target. We will do what we can do after I develop a good load. I do have a SS NM air gaged 20" bbl so that's one good thing. May put in a good trigger later.
 
Keep it simple. Grab a good powder such as Accurate 2230-Ramshot Xterminator or Hodgdon Benchmark. Grab some cci 450 or Remington 7.5 primers. Hornady 50 grain vmax or Sierra 55 Blitzking bullets. This should get you around 1/2 Moa if you have a decent rifle.
I found some loading data for AA 2230-S but cannot find this powder. All I can find is AA 2230. It say the AA 2230-S is 4% faster so can I assume a load of none S can be 4% hight than S and still be safe.
 
Keep it simple. Grab a good powder such as Accurate 2230-Ramshot Xterminator or Hodgdon Benchmark. Grab some cci 450 or Remington 7.5 primers. Hornady 50 grain vmax or Sierra 55 Blitzking bullets. This should get you around 1/2 Moa if you have a decent rifle.
 

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If you are only going out to 300 yards I would go with 4064 for both rifles . It's a well known powder for .308 and works just fine in .223 with the right load . I am not sure on max charge for your .223 bullet but if you are worried about crunching sticks of 4064 you can use a drop tube, etc . .

05_liten.jpg
If you are looking to shoot 52 or 55 grain 223 I would not use 4064. It's bulky enough that even with a full case the velocity is low. I don't remember the numbers but I can tell you my 0.4" groups opened up to about 1". I think with either the 52 gr Berger or the 53 SMK I could only get 25gr in Lapua brass. Otherwise, 4064 is a good way to go.
 
If you are looking to shoot 52 or 55 grain 223 I would not use 4064. It's bulky enough that even with a full case the velocity is low. I don't remember the numbers but I can tell you my 0.4" groups opened up to about 1". I think with either the 52 gr Berger or the 53 SMK I could only get 25gr in Lapua brass. Otherwise, 4064 is a good way to go.
Thanks. We found some AA 2230.
 
Is off the shelf AA 2230 an S type powder or is this a special powder not available in the US. Does this mean that max load should be reduced to 23.04 gr instead of 24.0 when using non- S type powder? See note under title of page. I know, start low and work my way up but the 24.0 gives me the 3200 fps I'm looking for if that turns out to be the more accurate load with a 55 gr blitz king
 

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You'll want about 24gr of AA2230 and 2.220" COAL would be my guess. The Speer varmint bullets are affordable and shoot well. There is a whole thread full of 223 loads here:

 
You'll want about 24gr of AA2230 and 2.220" COAL would be my guess. The Speer varmint bullets are affordable and shoot well. There is a whole thread full of 223 loads here:

Will the Speer TNT hold up to his 1-8 twist?
 
Well, I looked at all three powder and each one can get me close to the 3,240 FPS with maybe a few 1/10 over max load. That would get me in the ball park of matching the speed of factory 223 match ammo off the shelf. Now to find out which one if the most stable in all temperatures and burn rate is consistent. Never used any of these powder because I never owned anything less than a 243 Winchester which I regret getting rid of as well as my 7mm mag. Anyway if you have more information please let me know. In the meantime I grabbed some Accurate 2230, Sierra 55 Blitzking, LC Brass and Federal small rifle match primers. Now the funs starts. If anyone has a know good load for this combo please let me know. Thanks in advance.
 
Well it's now onto the next question. I have this chamber in my RRA -https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/223-wylde-the-ideal-ar-15-chamber/ and have fired ~ 500 rounds. I saved the brass and now as you can see want to reload. I need the ammo to fit into the mag so I am assuming I should just do as the manual says and make sure I am at factory OAL and all will be well. Should it be 2.251 or 2.260 difference manuals are giving different OAL for an AR 15
 
The "factory OAL" for lack of a better thing to call it. Is listed in the load data for said bullet. Not for a particular weight but for a particular bullet.
 
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Well, after using red dot vortex 1 - 6 on the range yesterday at 100 yards trying to group I discovered the best I could do was .800 MOA and that to me is not all that good. This comes from shooting the center out of the paper target with a 308 prior to trying to sight the AR 15 in at 100 yards where the red dot basically filled the entire 1" X ring on the target leaving only a partial white line around the remaining X ring to try and make the red dot concentric to the X ring before pulling the trigger. So, with that I guess I need a crosshair scope for the AR with possibly a green dot when needed and powerful enough to actually see the center of the X so I can place the crosshairs dead center of X intersection. I also don't want to spend an arm and a leg. If anyone has some suggestion, please advise.
 
Well, I lost my old post I wanted to update with this photo but the best I could do with off the shelf PMC 55gr FMJ-BT 2,900 FPS was as shown with a 1-6 Vortex red dot @ 100 yards. There was just nothing to aim at except for a blown out 1" dia center which only had about 1.4 of the white line that surrounds it left. Yes I know this group is high but for me that's okay since all I am doing now is testing ammo. Eventually I want all three rounds in the same hole or at least a cloverleaf pattern. My next shots with this PMC 55 gs FMJ-BT @ 2,900 FPS will be shot off a lead sled elimination my inability to hold dead nut and to ensure rifle level. Having said that we are still pursuing an accurate load for a 223 using AA2230 pushing a 55 gr Blitz Kind, federal brass and federal small rifle match primers.
 

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If you’re searching for ammunition that can produce a high level of precision when fired from a semi-automatic AR-15, PMC 55 grain FMJ is the wrong place to be looking. It’s not going to consistently do better than 2 MOA from an AR-15.


PMC Bronze 55 Grain FMJ

I evaluated the accuracy (technically, the precision) of the PMC Bronze 55 grain FMJ ammunition using my 20” stainless-steel Lothar-Walther barreled AR-15. This barrel has a 223 Wylde chamber with a 1:8” twist.

Three 10-shot groups fired in a row from the bench at a distance of 100 yards had the following extreme spreads:

2.22”

1.82”

2.15”

for a 10-shot average extreme spread of 2.06”. The 30-shot composite group had a mean radius of 0.72”. Unfortunately, my cocker spaniel chewed-up my chronograph data for this load.



dog_and_carbine_002-2797663.jpg




The smallest 10-shot group . . .



pmc_bronze_55_fmj_10_shot_group__02-1895262.jpg




.....
 
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with Accurate 2230, the tightest groups were yielded using 26.0 grains, using 55 grain BlitzKing @ 2.255.

however, like Molon said, I don't really understand the quest for accuracy when you are using components and stuff that is not made for accuracy. If you want accuracy, get:

Lapua Brass
Berger Match bullets, or Sierra Match King
Federal Match Primers, or CCI BR4
XBR8208, Benchmark, any VV powder, Varget, RL15, etc.

with 10 shot group, you will be lucky to break 1 inch with SBK's and AA2230. And the farther you go out in range, the worse it will get.
 
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with Accurate 2230, the tightest groups were yielded using 26.0 grains, using 55 grain BlitzKing @ 2.255.

however, like Molon said, I don't really understand the quest for accuracy when you are using components and stuff that is not made for accuracy. If you want accuracy, get:

Lapua Brass
Berger Match bullets, or Sierra Match King
Federal Match Primers, or CCI BR4
XBR8208, Benchmark, any VV powder, Varget, RL15, etc.

with 10 shot group, you will be lucky to break 1 inch with SBK's and AA2230. And the farther you go out in range, the worse it will get.
First test of rifle. This is factory PMC 55 GR FMJ-BT and it seems to be doing just fine and I'm bet with 55gr Blitz King using AA 2230 and federal small riles match primers I will do just as good or better out of an off the shelf RRA AR15 no mods done and only a reddot 1-6 Vortex. I think I will be fine but thanks for the information. Can't wait to see what it'll do once I put a scope on the rifle or for that matter put the rifle in a lead sled. I will post the results as we are working up the load. We are looking for 1/4 MOA at 100 yards or less. It's not an accurized rifle but it'll put them on a man size target in any location I wish with relatively good accuracy for sure.
 

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I've had good results with BLC2 and Tac using 69 and 75 BTHPs from RMR.

With Tac there is both 223 and Nato 556 load data available.

For the 300 to 700 yard distances I use the Nato loads.

The 69 and 75 definitely do better than the 55s both in the wind and long distance.
 
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Yes that is what I have been told and understand why but I do have a question, what is a nato load? Are we talking FPS for a particular bullet weight such as 69 and 75. Please provide some load or where you got that loading data from
 
Nato or 556 is higher pressure and velocities...

This is 223 Tac data from Western Powders...

Screenshot_20230512_122330_Drive.jpg

This is the Tac Nato or 556 data...

Screenshot_20230512_122254_Drive.jpg
 
. We are looking for 1/4 MOA at 100 yards or less.

I'm afraid that you're in for some major disappointment because semi-automatic AR-15s chambered in 5.56mm/223 Remington are not capable of consistently producing true 1/4 MOA precision. The 3-shot groups that you're shooting are not a valid indicator of the radial dispersion of an AR-15/ammunition combination.



The Internet Commando’s Nephew

The scene opens with Billy rushing into his house to tell his mother of his accomplishments while at the shooting range with his uncle that afternoon.


Billy: Guess what, Mom! I can shoot sub-MOA groups all day long with my chrome-lined, NATO chambered AR-15 using XM193 ammunition. I’m a real Internet Commando now!

Mother: Billy, how many shots were in those groups?

Billy: Aw, gee Mom. They were only 3-shot groups, but all the other kids are shooting 3-shot groups.

Mother: And if all the other kids jumped off a bridge, would you do that too?

Billy: No, Mom

Mother: Billy, you know that 3-shot groups aren’t good for you. What have your father and I told you about 3-shot groups?

Billy: 3-shot groups don’t mean jack-shit?

Mother: That’s right, Billy. So how many of those 3-shot groups of yours were actually sub-MOA.?

Billy: Well . . . only two.

Mother: And how many groups did you actually fire?

Billy: Five.

Mother: Billy . . .?

Billy: Ok, it was ten groups. You happy now?


Mother: So you fired ten, 3-shot groups and CHERRY- PICKED two groups to brag about? Your father and I raised you better than this, Billy.

Billy: Sorry, Mom.

Mother: Sorry doesn’t cut it, young man. I’m going to have a long talk with your uncle and you’re no longer allowed to log-on to glock-gab.com. That site is rotting your brain.

Billy: But Mom!

Mother: No buts, Billy. And the only reason that I haven’t grounded you is because you haven’t used the “F” word.

Billy: You mean f . . . l . . .

Mother: Watch it, Billy.

Billy: Flier!

(Billy turns and runs to his bedroom as fast as he can.)

Mother: That’s it! You’re grounded, and just wait until your father gets home! This is all because of that uncle of yours!”


After Billy finished his week of being grounded, his parents decided to supervise an experiment at the shooting range with him to reinforce the folly of using 3-shot groups to evaluate the accuracy of an AR-15 rifle/ammunition combination. Shooting from a bench-rest at a distance of 100 yards using his father’s Krieger barreled, semi-automatic AR-15 (Billy’s actually a pretty good shot for his age) and using his father’s hand-loads topped with Hornady 55 grain FMJ projectiles, they had Billy shoot thirty shots in a row (each round was single-loaded) on thirty different targets; one shot per target (all while monitoring the wind conditions on the range using a Wind Probe). (Prior to Billy shooting his thirty shots, Billy’s father fired a sub-MOA 10-shot control group from the same rifle using match-grade hand-loads.) They then collected their targets and headed home to continue the experiment.

Once at home, they entered each of the thirty individual targets into the computer using the software program RSI Shootng Lab. Next, they used the software program to form ten, 3-shot groups from the thirty individual shots. (The first 3-shot group was formed from shots 1-3, the second 3-shot group was formed form shots 4-6 and so on.) The results are pictured below. (The point-of-aim for the groups shown below is the double white circle.)



aimpoint_01-1376071.jpg



The ten, 3-shot groups.


10_three_shot_groups_together_15-1376070.jpg




Billy’s parents pointed out to him that the 3-shot groups had wide variations in their extreme spreads from shot-group to shot-group. The extreme spread of the largest group (group number 8) was five times as large as the smallest group (group number 2). They also pointed out the centers of the various 3-shot groups varied quite a bit in their location from the point-of-aim. For example, all three shots from group number 3 where higher than the point-of-aim, while all three shots from group number 4 where lower than the point-of-aim. Also, the center of group number 3 was to the left of the point-of-aim, while the center of group number 4 was to the right of the point-of-aim.


(If Billy’s uncle had fired those ten, 3-shot groups, he would have cherry-picked group number 2 and group number 5 to represent the accuracy/precision of his AR-15 rifle and ammunition and pretended that the other eight groups didn’t exist.)


Next, Billy’s parents had him form three, 10-shot groups from the thirty individual shots using the software program. (The first 10-shot group was formed from shots 1-10, the second 10-shot group was formed from shots 11-20 and the third 10-shot group was formed from shots 21-30.) The results are pictured below.



three_10_shot_groups_together_02-1376073.jpg



Upon seeing the 10-shot groups pictured above, Billy immediately noticed how much smaller the variations in extreme spreads were from shot-group to shot-group. In fact, the extreme spread of the largest 10-shot group (group number 3) was only 1.5 times as large as the extreme spread of the smallest 10-shot group (group number 1). Billy even pointed out to his parents that the centers of the three 10-shot groups were all located very similarly from the point-of-aim.

“That’s my boy,” cheered Billy’s mother.

Billy’s father proudly remarked to Billy, “So now you see why 10-shot groups give us a much better picture of the actual radial dispersion of the shots fired from a rifle/ammunition combination.”

Billy’s father went on to explain, “And if we over-lay three 10-shot groups that were fired in a row on each other and use the mean radius of the 30-shot composite group that is formed, we get a very good indication of the radial dispersion produced by a rifle/ammunition combination.”



internet_commando_30_shot_composite_grou-1376072.jpg




Billy then asked his parents, “Should I try to explain this stuff to Uncle?”

His father replied, “You can try . . .”


....


The shot-groups depicted in the above fable are from my actual targets obtained during live-fire testing.

....



The Texas Sharpshooter

(Second Cousin of the Internet Commando)


Envious of all the attention his cousin, the Internet Commando, receives at the local tavern, as well as on the popular firearms forums on the Internet, our antagonist decides it is time for him to make his mark in the world. He decides he needs to perform some feat of marksmanship that surpasses even the accomplishments of his cousin, the Internet Commando.

But what can he possibly do that the Internet Commando hasn’t already done? Our antagonist recalls the tales of the Internet Commando. He remembers his cousin boasting of shooting sub-minute of angle groups using XM193. How could he possibly top that? Then, it dawns on him. The Internet Commando was using his sights when he fired those sub-minute of angle groups with XM193. “Anyone can shoot a small group using their sights,” he thinks to himself. “It would take real skill to shoot a good group without using the sights, say . . . as in shooting from the hip!”

Seeing his destiny laid out before him, our antagonist sets up his target at 25 yards and proceeds to fire on the target shooting from the hip. As our antagonist walks towards his target to examine his results he begins to grin from ear to ear. “Wait until my cousin sees this,” he actually speaks aloud.

That night at the local tavern our antagonist shows his target (pictured below) to those who have been hanging on every word that his cousin, the Internet Commando has been saying. The people are absolutely astonished that our antagonist was able shoot such an amazing group firing from the hip at 25 yards. Bewildered by the incredible skill demonstrated by our antagonist, the Internet Commando tells his cousin, “You’re quite the sharpshooter Tex!”



t_shooter_target_01_resized-1376079.jpg




While the above fable is fictitious, it is based based on a real target that I fired from an AR-15. I actually fired that group pictured above from 25 yards while shooting from the hip. For those of you that haven’t already figured out how I was able to perform such a feat, here are the little details that Texas Sharpshooters fail to mention.

I actually fired 30 shots from the hip at the “target” which was a blank piece of paper measuring 36” X 24” (kind of like the broad side of a barn). I then found 3 shots that formed a cluster and “drew” the bulls-eye around the shots. Those 3 shots occurred randomly. Not from any outstanding shooting skills of mine, nor from any outstanding qualities of the rifle or ammunition I was using, but purely by chance. (The actual extreme spread of the 30-shot group was 31”; that's 2 feet, seven inches.)

The fallacy of the Texas Sharpshooter is based on the fact that clusters of data can occur randomly or by chance (the clustering illusion). “In making statistical observations, results will not be distributed with total uniformity but will naturally be sparser in some areas and denser in others, purely by chance.”* Human beings tend to want to discern patterns in random clusters where none actually exist. We try to assign significance where there isn’t any.

In the case of the Texas Sharpshooter “information that has no relationship is interpreted or manipulated until it appears to have meaning.”* More specifically, “although the shots were random, the Texas Sharpshooter makes it appear as though he has performed a highly non-random act. In normal target practice, the bulls-eye defines a region of significance, and there's a low probability of hitting it by firing at random. However, when the region of significance is determined after the event has occurred, any outcome at all can be made to appear spectacular.”*

If you had not known that the Texas Sharpshooter had drawn the bulls-eye after the shots were fired, you would “falsely assume he's an excellent marksman by reasoning from effect (bullet holes in the bulls-eye) to cause (he fired the bullets).”* The fatal flaw is “assigning significance to the outcome of a random event after it has occurred.”* The danger is in “jumping to a conclusion that a random cluster is a causal pattern.”* The Texas Sharpshooter “takes a random cluster, and by drawing a bulls-eye onto it makes it appear to be causally determined.”*



Here is a pic of the target before the bulls-eye was drawn on it, shown with a yardstick on the left border.


texas_sharpshooter_21_resized-1376094.jpg




Here is the target in negative.


texas_sharpshooter_22_resized-1376095.jpg



Lastly, the target in negative with the random cluster (actually two random clusters) highlighted.



texas_sharpshooter_23_resized-1376096.jpg



….


Two schools of thought pertaining to the Texas Sharpshooter:


“We are Texas Sharpshooter.” The Borg Collective model.
borg_emoji-1376107.gif



“There can be only one!” The Highlander construct.
highlander_sword_emoji-1376108.gif



....
 
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WOA builds my AR uppers.

This is load info for 69 and 80 SMKs he included in the box and was posted on the WOA website.

I don't know what group size he gets with these but maybe worth trying.

Screenshot_20230421_221657_Chrome.jpg
 
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My RRA NM A2 Upper likes shooting 77 MatchKings with 23.5gr of Varget or 22.5gr of IMR-4895 at magazine OAL. Will hold 1 MOA if I do my part correctly.
 
Yeah, he means 62 Sierra Game Kings. But its fine. You want accurate loads?
Here is a few, but note, every barrel is different. so BASICALLY, no matter what barrel you have, will "probably" like within .2 grains of the following
77 SMK 2.260
Varget 24.0
SW Precision Rifle 23.9-24.1
N140 24.1-24.2
N540 24.5
Benchmark 22.0
N135 22.0, 23.0
8208 XBR 23.3, 23.6
AR Comp 22.8
AA2230 22.0
RL15 24.0
to name a few popular loads.

69 Grain SMK 2.260
Varget 25-25.1
RL15 25-25.1
Norma 203B 25-25.1

55 Grain Blitzking
Benchmark 25.0
AA2230 26.0, 24.5
AR Comp 25.2-25.3
W748 26.4
H335 25.0
N133 24.5-24.7
N530 25.1

62 Grains Gameking, etc. Not many people load for this, for accuracy. So exclude this...its not accurate bullet compared to SMK.
BUT, if you want ot try your best..then here is what you will do. Get 1 of these powders:
Benchmark, AR-Comp, or N135. Load from 24.2-24.7, and probably near 24.5 with one will be your best load possible.

of all the loads on this list, AROUND 24.0 grains of VARGET for 77 SMK is BY FAR FAR FAR, the most popular. Its ultra temp stable, and its nuts accurate. Many people on here will say that if your gun cannot shoot 24.0 of Varget with 77 SMK, then your barrel sucks, because straight up, that load is probably universally GOLD status. lol

Good luck

I could not get Varget but I did get A2230. From what I see here 77 SMK w/ AA2230 22.0 should be fine. Would you happen to have a photo of a group shot using this load. I am guess this text above 77 SMK 2.260 mean 22.6 grains. Please advise
 
I think it shows 23.7 gr of Varget is a compressed load so 24.1 must really be compressed. Anyway thanks for the insight. maybe some cases hold more than others. I'll be using PMC, LC and Remington. Don't have any idea which one has the most volume.
Some cases definitely hold more than others.

How compressed it is depends on how deep the bullet is seated and that depends on how long your throat is for how far out you can seat your bullets without jammig them into the lands.
 
I shot lots of the speer and nosler 52gr bullets through my 8 twist RRA rifles so I don't see why not. People shoot zillions of 55gr fmj through 7 twist barrels. 26gr of TAC powder and a 52bthp or 55vmax is a good varmint load in the AR.
I shoot lots of 50-60g bullets in my 26" and 28" 1 in 7 223 barrels.

Wc844 (about like h335) with 50 or 55 v max. First 5 after 2 sighters in PVA rock creek barrel. I just cleaned it and shot it yesterday. Two fowlers and it's back shooting like this with another of my favorite lands using the 53g vmax and 8208.
 

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I could not get Varget but I did get A2230. From what I see here 77 SMK w/ AA2230 22.0 should be fine. Would you happen to have a photo of a group shot using this load. I am guess this text above 77 SMK 2.260 mean 22.6 grains. Please advise
2.260 is the OAL. not the load. The load is 22.0 grains of AA2230. Which shoots pretty good for 77 grain bullets. Don't expect high velocity. Expect around 2600 FPS for 20" barrel. NATO pressure will be in the ballpark of 23.2-23.7 depending on brass basically. And that will generate 2700+ easily from 20" barrel.
 
2.260 is the OAL. not the load. The load is 22.0 grains of AA2230. Which shoots pretty good for 77 grain bullets. Don't expect high velocity. Expect around 2600 FPS for 20" barrel. NATO pressure will be in the ballpark of 23.2-23.7 depending on brass basically. And that will generate 2700+ easily from 20" barrel.
For now I am loading 24.0 gr of TAC and it seems to be doing good but we will have to try the 23.2 - 23.7 gr of AA 2230
 
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For now I am loading 24.0 gr of TAC and it seems to be doing good but we will have to try the 23.2 - 23.7 gr of AA 2230
The higher I went from 24.2gr of TAC in IMI case (H2O 31.5gr) with 77SMK the higher the SD went. So stayed 24.2 with 2715fps 18". Will be cruising 2750s @80F.
N135 at 23.7 in same case showed same velocity and great precision.
I got 8lbs jugs of both TAC & N135!
Running them to 1000yds, so need that speed.
 
The higher I went from 24.2gr of TAC in IMI case (H2O 31.5gr) with 77SMK the higher the SD went. So stayed 24.2 with 2715fps 18". Will be cruising 2750s @80F.
N135 at 23.7 in same case showed same velocity and great precision.
I got 8lbs jugs of both TAC & N135!
Running them to 1000yds, so need that speed.

One of these days we will have to try 1000 yards with the 5.56. For now we are at 600 yards and trying to group well. Next we'll go to 800 and then move on to where you are. Were you at least 1 MOA at 1000 or did you do better?
 
One of these days we will have to try 1000 yards with the 5.56. For now we are at 600 yards and trying to group well. Next we'll go to 800 and then move on to where you are. Were you at least 1 MOA at 1000 or did you do better?
I was MOA of IPSC plate, but I was shooting a 10X duplex reticle and wind holds were obviously a chore. I had a tail wind that had me watching the caution tape every second before I broke the shot. Lol. F'N nightmare, but it was fun and I could see the potential of the 77SMK at/in/past the transitional barrier. Next time I'm running the DMR3 and doing it right.
 
I am curious about this thread. Nvrpc1: Where did you read or learn from, to think that AR15's can do 1/4 MOA? I never heard of that. I can tell you, I have "many" of the best barrels money can buy on this planet, and when you shoot more than 5 shots, getting under .5 inches is nearly unheard of, if not pure luck. I would say, that you should aim for .75" with 10 shot group at 100 yards. That is reliable, and good.
Optimal:
You should load 1 bullet at a time, with longer OAL, such as 2.350 with certain bullets, and you want to use 80-85 grain bullets. N540 is top powder for this activity. This is superior combination for 600 yards - 1000 yards. Among several.
 
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Ain't nobody shooting 1/4 moa .223 with an AR. Can it be done with a 3 shot "group" a time or two now and then? Maybe, but a 3 shot group doesn't mean anything either.
 
@nvrpc1 - Discussions on precision really run the gambit on this site! I read some posts that claim anybody with even the lowest quality of components can shoot 3-5 shot groups .25-5.MOA. Now, I read posts that those group sizes aren't even achievable with the high dollar AR15s. So that could really leave a guy perplexed at what to expect. So, it's very important to apply "context" to the precision potential of these ARs.

Context in my reply here means looking at shot count of a string fired. I am of the notion precision of ARs really boils down to how the components of a build handle the generated heat. So, with some quality made ammo, 3-5 shots in a standard diameter AR barrel, has just started to increase the heat to start making the groups grow. So, the initial .25MOA 3 shots typically go to 1MOA + after a string of successive rounds. I don't know of anyone shooting .25MOA groups over 3 rounds fired or that it is even possible with my mention of thermodynamics that come into play.

So, if someone says they shot 3 rounds from an AR15 in .25MOA @ 100yds I can believe that. 5 rounds in .5MOA I can believe that too. 10 rounds in .5MOA is showing the build and shooter have some great shit going for them between ammo and build components, especially if the average of multiple 10 shot groups hovers around the .5-.75MOA mark. That shit is gold when higher count shot groups stay within 1.5 MOA" @100yds.
 
Just got some things enroute by which I am excited to post the results in comparison to the 77SMK:
- 500 box of 77gr Berger (TACT)
- 21st Century .2215 mandrel
- Ginex primers. (Supposedly decent primers)

Test barrels will be the usual sub-MOA champs: 16" Faxon, WOA 18" SPR, BA 18" SPR (Sold BA 12.5",14.5", BA 16")
Also excited about the crops getting out and the ground drying out for some long balling the 77s of both brands to 1000yds.
Stay tuned!
 
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I would be beyond excited with those results out of a Faxon barrel! Looking forward to seeing your results with the other barrels you mentioned.
What are the rest of the load details for this one ?
 
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I would be beyond excited with those results out of a Faxon barrel! Looking forward to seeing your results with the other barrels you mentioned.
What are the rest of the load details for this one ?
This is with factory IMI 77SMK Razor Core. I am currently working on a clone of this clone of the MK262.