looking for new hunting rifle for large western game

[Forrest84]

Have an elk hunt coming this year and I want to just run a factory rifle.
I first wanted to just get a TIKKA in 300WSM and call it good since I've had several the past
10 years and I already know it is more than sufficient to the job.
However, I've been wanting a nice wood stock rifle for a while and was considering one of the newer Win Mod 70's.
I can find them in 270 and 300wsm.
can anybody attest to the late model Winchesters consistency and accuracy? Ill likely hand load it since it won't be a rifle I shoot
year-round and I already have all the primers and powder I need. I'm not really interested in anything else, and the whole idea
started as keeping the cost below $1,500.

 

[4O6shootist]

Can you pony up a lil more funds? The havak ph2 is 1800$, seekins discount certs used to be abundant here a few years ago, but seems like last few years lil more difficult to find. But 20-30% off used to be pretty common they had a limit of 2k dollar item. 65prc is plenty for an elk. I know a few guys who's killed the efficiently with 243 and 25-06 for years. A fellow hunter killed multiple cow elk in last two seasons with a dasher. I've used 65saum and 6cm successfully last few years. Big open windy country I still gravitate towards a larger magnum. Elk aren't armor played, put an expanding bullet into the vitals and they'll die relatively quickly. Heavy for cal hybrid, eldm does the trick.

 

[NateVA]

Unless your current rifles are too heavy, just use one of them. There are guys killing elk with .223 at even long distances because they use the right bullets.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Unless your current rifles are too heavy, just use one of them. There are guys killing elk with .223 at even long distances because they use the right bullets.

I don't doubt it, but if my friend told me he was taking his .223 elk hunting, I'd get very judgemental. My first question would be:

How many years of training does the tracking dog team have, that you're going to need, to find and lose this thing repeatedly?

 

[NateVA]

I don't doubt it, but if my friend told me he was taking his .223 elk hunting, I'd get very judgemental. My first question would be:

How many years of training does the tracking dog team have, that you're going to need, to find and lose this thing repeatedly?

I get better wound channels from my 6.5CM using ELD-Ms than I ever got when I was using Barnes TTSX out of a 300WM. Almost all american hunters have an understanding of terminal ballistics that is worse than nonexistent. They don't understand the animals' anatomy or how bullets work.

 

[4O6shootist]

I get better wound channels from my 6.5CM using ELD-Ms than I ever got when I was using Barnes TTSX out of a 300WM. Almost all american hunters have an understanding of terminal ballistics that is worse than nonexistent. They don't understand the animals' anatomy or how bullets work.

Exactly.......I'd rather shoot a 6cm with eldms than a 300mag with a Barnes solid, regardless of distance or critter size.

 

[NateVA]

Exactly.......I'd rather shoot a 6cm with eldms than a 300mag with a Barnes solid, regardless of distance or critter size.

There are people who genuinely believe that you need a magnum with Barnes style bullets for black bear. One of the most pervasive issues in US hunting is that people use bullets that are too tough. So they don't perform properly because our animals have thinner hides, smaller/less bones, less muscle before vitals, etc. Then that makes them think they need a magnum when what they need is a bullet that doesn't suck.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Craziest strawman arguement you'll see today anywhere folks. I said .223 was crazy, he said:

"How dare you knock shooten em with a .223, I kill 'em real dead with a 6.5cm. You're dumb and don't know how bullets work, dummy".

 

[david walter]

I’m having this internal argument with myself now. I have a 308 and a couple 6.5 creeds, and just bought a 7 RM in case of long shots at Elk.

Energy wise massive difference with the creedmoor dropping below 1500 ft-lbs at 400 yards and the 7 mag at 750 yards.

But wait, my 6.5 creed with 139 Scenars at 2800 fps will kill any elk walking. And although the 7 RM is flatter shooting, I’ll be dialing anyway.

So?

Life as a gun loony.

 

[Stevo86]

Have an elk hunt coming this year and I want to just run a factory rifle.
I first wanted to just get a TIKKA in 300WSM and call it good since I've had several the past
10 years and I already know it is more than sufficient to the job.
However, I've been wanting a nice wood stock rifle for a while and was considering one of the newer Win Mod 70's.
I can find them in 270 and 300wsm.
can anybody attest to the late model Winchesters consistency and accuracy? Ill likely hand load it since it won't be a rifle I shoot
year-round and I already have all the primers and powder I need. I'm not really interested in anything else, and the whole idea
started as keeping the cost below $1,500.

I’ve got a late model win70 supergrade maple 270…. Shoots lights out with factory hornady hunter. Beautiful rifle..

 

[supercorndogs]

I wouldn't shoot elk with a 40g vmax out of a 223 but I certainly have some .224 bullets that I bet would do fine on elk.

 

[NateVA]

Craziest strawman arguement you'll see today anywhere folks. I said .223 was crazy, he said:

"How dare you knock shooten em with a .223, I kill 'em real dead with a 6.5cm. You're dumb and don't know how bullets work, dummy".

The 6.5CM was an example of me stepping down in kinetic energy yet getting better wound channels with better bullets. It was just to highlight the bullet thing. A .223 using bullets that don't suck (77gr TMK) can kill an elk easily. Search "rokslide 223 for elk" and there's a thread over there with 360+ pages that has hundreds of pictures of elk killed with .223s as well as pictures of the wound channels. If you want to argue it over there in the face of real world results then go crazy with it.

I wouldn't shoot elk with a 40g vmax out of a 223 but I certainly have some .224 bullets that I bet would do fine on elk.

People who are hung up on cartridge choice don't really understand what you're getting at unfortunately.

Energy wise massive difference with the creedmoor dropping below 1500 ft-lbs at 400 yards

The 1500 ft/lbs of energy cutoff is a myth that has no basis in reality. Bullets perform based on minimum impact velocity. With an ELD-M you're fine down to 1400 fps. With Barnes, Berger, ELD-X, and Nosler you supposedly need 1800+ fps impact velocity but it's more like 2000+ for some of them. Energy isn't a useful predictor of terminal performance.

OP, this is easy to calculate. What is the max range you plan to shoot at an animal? Pick a bullet of your choosing, plug it into a ballistic calc, and start playing with the muzzle velocity. Once you have a muzzle velocity where the bullet still has its minimum needed impact velocity at your max range, you know what cartridge to use. A great do-it-all rifle would be a 6CM shooting 108gr ELD-Ms but not sure which factory rifles are chambered in that.

 

[4O6shootist]

@NateVA has it right. Pick ur bullet, a Berger Hybrid(not a pointed lrht) eldm or tmk. I'm more limiting to 1700fps impact velocity as my lower limit, just me. A 6cm has no problem running a 109 eldm at 3050fps. Typical western hunting has a da of 5000+, that makes this bullet very terminal to 950y. Much further than most shooters should be trying to engage game. The 65prc pushing heavy 140+ eldms crosses that velocity threshold at the same distance, but the 6cm has way less recoil and is much more forgiving in field positions that are the norm in hunting environments. I think a 6mm based off a prc that's the same length as a creed case would be a great hunting cartridge, it'd hold 64-65gr of powder, reliably run heaviest 6mm bullets at 3200 from a 24" barrel and have low recoil. It's essentially a modern day 240wby mag.

 

[Jordan Smith]

I’m having this internal argument with myself now. I have a 308 and a couple 6.5 creeds, and just bought a 7 RM in case of long shots at Elk.

Energy wise massive difference with the creedmoor dropping below 1500 ft-lbs at 400 yards and the 7 mag at 750 yards.

But wait, my 6.5 creed with 139 Scenars at 2800 fps will kill any elk walking. And although the 7 RM is flatter shooting, I’ll be dialing anyway.

So?

Life as a gun loony.

Wind drift and impact speed are where the advantage lies, not energy.

 

[Estes640]

@NateVA has it right. Pick ur bullet, a Berger Hybrid(not a pointed lrht) eldm or tmk. I'm more limiting to 1700fps impact velocity as my lower limit, just me. A 6cm has no problem running a 109 eldm at 3050fps. Typical western hunting has a da of 5000+, that makes this bullet very terminal to 950y. Much further than most shooters should be trying to engage game. The 65prc pushing heavy 140+ eldms crosses that velocity threshold at the same distance, but the 6cm has way less recoil and is much more forgiving in field positions that are the norm in hunting environments. I think a 6mm based off a prc that's the same length as a creed case would be a great hunting cartridge, it'd hold 64-65gr of powder, reliably run heaviest 6mm bullets at 3200 from a 24" barrel and have low recoil. It's essentially a modern day 240wby mag.

You essentially described what Ryan Avery is using. He is running a 6 UM (unknown Munitions) - is a 6mm SAUM Improved. From what I remember it’s 115 dtacs at 3200 ish if not a little quicker out of 20-24” barrels.

He has killed quite a few elk with it already and seems to plan on keep doing it as well

 

[Turkeytider]

Unless your current rifles are too heavy, just use one of them. There are guys killing elk with .223 at even long distances because they use the right bullets.

I`m.....sure that`s true. What we don`t hear too much about though are those long range, .223 cripples that run off. I know..I know.... there`s this epically long thread, complete with pictures, of ostensibly .223 damage and kills on deer and elk and moose and God knows what all by now. It`s just one guy`s opinion, and I`m a .223 lover and shooter, but it smacks of people striving mightily to justify shooting large animals in an under gunned situation.

 

[Fig]

On paper, at the range, and in the field shooting .300WM with the super heavies IS overkill, no doubt. How often do you go Elk hunting? How much money are you spending on the hunt? Speaking as a flatlander I spend a shiton of money on elk, and when I go I use way more gun than is necessary.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

The Weatherby Vauguard Sporter model, is avaialbe in .270 as well as .30-06, 300 Win Mag and 300 Weatherby Mag and 7mm Remington Mag. Accuracy is reliable for hunting standards, and the price is well within your limits. Mine is reliable, shoots good groups, at point of aim, hot or cold and in the caliber I choose, is a certified whitetail killer. (.25-06. )


Below, Sporter Model.

 

[HMRamateur]

Do you reload? And what is your max distance for hunting?

Edit: should have read your entire post before asking that... you already stated hand loads, and your price limit changes my suggestion.

Honestly, I built a custom rifle last year and couldn't help but feel like I could have saved a few bucks and just rebarreled a tikka and would have gotten something that would have done the job just as well. I'm a gear whore though...

 

[4O6shootist]

You essentially described what Ryan Avery is using. He is running a 6 UM (unknown Munitions) - is a 6mm SAUM Improved. From what I remember it’s 115 dtacs at 3200 ish if not a little quicker out of 20-24” barrels.

He has killed quite a few elk with it already and seems to plan on keep doing it as well

Lil different, he's at 73-75gr powder. I built a 6saum as I was already set for standard Saum cases. I run 115s at 3350 from a 24" barrel, more than necessary and recoil would be less with the bit smaller case.

 

[david walter]

Depends on where "western" is. Many states (Montana) allow any centerfire, while some (people's Republic of Washington) have a 6mm minimum.

I live in WA, and a friend's dad has killed upwards of 25 elk with blue box federal 243 100 grain bullets. He get's close as he can and takes neck or pass through lung shots, and hasn't lost any.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Well, I should be hunting elk this fall in wyoming, and I'll be leaving my .223, my 6 and 6.5cm and my pellet rifle at home, because if I'm standing there on my last day, and the only shot I have is quartering to at 750y, I'll have my 300 wsm shooting 200gr eld-x through that shoulder.

You guys can shoot them with a .204 ruger if you want to. I don't even like a .223 for coyotes. I've seen way too many coyotes soak up 2 or 3 rounds of .223 and some of them were never seen again, and some ran a half mile or more. Damn if I'm gambling my elk season on a varmint cartridge, nor would I suggest that to anyone else. I guarantee these ".223 elk boys" aren't telling you the stories about the ones they never recover.

 

[NateVA]

Well, I should be hunting elk this fall in wyoming, and I'll be leaving my .223, my 6 and 6.5cm and my pellet rifle at home, because if I'm standing there on my last day, and the only shot I have is quartering to at 750y, I'll have my 300 wsm shooting 200gr eld-x through that shoulder.

A cartridge that can make it through a deer shoulder can make it through an elk shoulder. The shoulder bone thickness is about 0.1" more for elk and there's an extra 1-2" of muscle before the vitals for elk vs deer depending on whether you shoot through the shoulder or behind it. The average elk depth OF vitals is 15" versus 10" for a deer. And the average depth TO vitals is 3" for deer and 4" for elk. Add that up and to make it through an elk you need 19" of penetration versus about 13" for a deer. Keeping in mind that once the bullet is in the vitals, they offer very little resistance because most of that space is filled by the lungs which just have air in them.

I guarantee these ".223 elk boys" aren't telling you the stories about the ones they never recover.

If we're writing fanfiction from our imagination, can my character be a ninja?

 

[Turkeytider]

Well, I should be hunting elk this fall in wyoming, and I'll be leaving my .223, my 6 and 6.5cm and my pellet rifle at home, because if I'm standing there on my last day, and the only shot I have is quartering to at 750y, I'll have my 300 wsm shooting 200gr eld-x through that shoulder.

You guys can shoot them with a .204 ruger if you want to. I don't even like a .223 for coyotes. I've seen way too many coyotes soak up 2 or 3 rounds of .223 and some of them were never seen again, and some ran a half mile or more. Damn if I'm gambling my elk season on a varmint cartridge, nor would I suggest that to anyone else. I guarantee these ".223 elk boys" aren't telling you the stories about the ones they never recover.

I know that there are those who might disagree with my personal opinion on this, and consider me "soft ", but at 76, I don`t give a happy damn. I also think that shooting an animal like an elk or moose with something like a .223 is disrespectful to the animal. As hunters, our main goal in taking an animal`s life should be to do all we can to accomplish a DRT shot. Sure, I know that there will be cripples, but that doesn`t mean we shouldn`t strive to absolutely minimize them. A major part of that is using a gun and loads that affords us the greatest opportunity and likelihood to do just that.

 

[stello1001]

Any 7-08, 308, 270, or 30-06 will do just fine.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

A cartridge that can make it through a deer shoulder can make it through an elk shoulder. The shoulder bone thickness is about 0.1" more for elk and there's an extra 1-2" of muscle before the vitals for elk vs deer depending on whether you shoot through the shoulder or behind it. The average elk depth OF vitals is 15" versus 10" for a deer. And the average depth TO vitals is 3" for deer and 4" for elk. Add that up and to make it through an elk you need 19" of penetration versus about 13" for a deer. Keeping in mind that once the bullet is in the vitals, they offer very little resistance because most of that space is filled by the lungs which just have air in them.

If we're writing fanfiction from our imagination, can my character be a ninja?

How many elk have you killed with a .223? You've got a lot to say, but im going to guess that you're young and you have zero actual experience killing elk with a .223. Am I wrong?

 

[supercorndogs]

Well, I should be hunting elk this fall in wyoming, and I'll be leaving my .223, my 6 and 6.5cm and my pellet rifle at home, because if I'm standing there on my last day, and the only shot I have is quartering to at 750y, I'll have my 300 wsm shooting 200gr eld-x through that shoulder.

You guys can shoot them with a .204 ruger if you want to. I don't even like a .223 for coyotes. I've seen way too many coyotes soak up 2 or 3 rounds of .223 and some of them were never seen again, and some ran a half mile or more. Damn if I'm gambling my elk season on a varmint cartridge, nor would I suggest that to anyone else. I guarantee these ".223 elk boys" aren't telling you the stories about the ones they never recover.

You sure those werent just misses...

 

[308pirate]

minimum needed impact velocity at your max range,

Where do I find that data?

 

[supercorndogs]

223 isn't legal here. I have seen lots of elk killed with a 243 and 30/30 though. They are bigger than a deer. Especially those little southern deer. But elk aren't hard to kill. Just like coyotes. If the bullet makes it into the vitals. They die rather quickly.

 

[supercorndogs]

Where do I find that data?

Your ballistic app.

 

[NateVA]

How many elk have you killed with a .223? You've got a lot to say, but im going to guess that you're young and you have zero actual experience killing elk with a .223. Am I wrong?

You're the one who was very adamant that it's unethical and a .223 doesn't work for elk, despite having no experience killing elk with a .223 either. I say it's perfectly feasible because there's a large body of evidence, with photos and everything, indicating it is. When presented with it, you just made up imaginary scenarios as to why it's not true and now you're lashing out at me. When my original reply only used the .223 as an example as to why the OP should just use whatever gun he already has and that he doesn't need anything bigger.

Where do I find that data?

Manufacturers usually give guidelines for it, though not always. So for instance, the below link indicates Hornady says their ELD-X bullets are good down to 1600 fps. Having said that, it's pretty well known and tested that ELD-Xs don't actually do well below 1900 FPS. ELD-X bullets in general are pretty underwhelming and ELD-M bullets do much better with consistent terminal performance especially below 1800 fps. I was usually underwhelmed with ELD-X performance when I used it even at very close range. Barnes uses 1800 fps. Berger says 1800 FPS but from guys testing it they do best above 2000 fps.

What's the maximum range for acceptable terminal performance with ELD-X bullets? - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

It depends on retained velocity and is therefore cartridge dependent. In general, the ELD-X bullets will provide reliable and effective terminal performance up to velocities of approximately 1,600 feet per second. Click here for more information on Hor...

www.hornady.com

 

[Mnwhiskeyman]

I too am looking for a good elk rifle. I have a 338 win mag ruger m 77 but un sure of her long range ability. She works good for 100 yard or a liitlle more but I have never streched her. Looking at Ruger Hawkeye Hunter in 30-06 or a Browning Xbolt 2 Hunter in 30-06 as factory options. Thoughts?

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

You're the one who was very adamant that it's unethical and a .223 doesn't work for elk, despite having no experience killing elk with a .223 either. I say it's perfectly feasible because there's a large body of evidence, with photos and everything, indicating it is. When presented with it, you just made up imaginary scenarios as to why it's not true and now you're lashing out at me. When my original reply only used the .223 as an example as to why the OP should just use whatever gun he already has and that he doesn't need anything bigger.

Manufacturers usually give guidelines for it, though not always. So for instance, the below link indicates Hornady says their ELD-X bullets are good down to 1600 fps. Having said that, it's pretty well known and tested that ELD-Xs don't actually do well below 1900 FPS. ELD-X bullets in general are pretty underwhelming and ELD-M bullets do much better with consistent terminal performance especially below 1800 fps. I was usually underwhelmed with ELD-X performance when I used it even at very close range. Barnes uses 1800 fps. Berger says 1800 FPS but from guys testing it they do best above 2000 fps.

What's the maximum range for acceptable terminal performance with ELD-X bullets? - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

It depends on retained velocity and is therefore cartridge dependent. In general, the ELD-X bullets will provide reliable and effective terminal performance up to velocities of approximately 1,600 feet per second. Click here for more information on Hor...

www.hornady.com

So, just to clarify, you are both young and have no experience killing elk with a .223.

Now let's got further into your complete and total lack of experience with this topic that you are just doing your damndest to appear knowledgeable about:

How many elk have you killed total, with any weapon?

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

You sure those werent just misses...

View attachment 8422142

I've missed my share of coyotes, maybe more than my share. Anyone who claims they aren't missing coyotes is either lying, or they aren't calling any. But no, I've seen coyotes take more .223 rounds and run off than every other cartridge combined. Coyotes are tough though, tougher than a whitetail deer for sure.

 

[Im2bent]

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[NateVA]

So, just to clarify, you are both young and have no experience killing elk with a .223.

To clarify, you shrugged off evidence (with photos) of hundreds of guys killing elk with .223s because you made up a fanfiction about them wounding untold numbers of them and not reporting it. You are not even attempting to approach this in good faith.

Now let's got further into your complete and total lack of experience with this topic that you are just doing your damndest to appear knowledgeable about:

How many elk have you killed total, with any weapon?

The answer to that is 3 elk personally, with others from people I've been hunting with. Two with a 6.5CM and one with a 300WM for me personally, all in Idaho. For deer it's a lot more but that's just because I've been hunting them all my life. Now tell me with why I should trust your experience of killing 20+ elk (or however many you're about to say) over all those hundreds of guys you dismissed beforehand.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

To clarify, you shrugged off evidence (with photos) of hundreds of guys killing elk with .223s because you made up a fanfiction about them wounding untold numbers of them and not reporting it. You are not even attempting to approach this in good faith.

The answer to that is 3 elk personally, with others from people I've been hunting with. Two with a 6.5CM and one with a 300WM for me personally, all in Idaho. For deer it's a lot more but that's just because I've been hunting them all my life. Now tell me with why I should trust your experience of killing 20+ elk (or however many you're about to say) over all those hundreds of guys you dismissed beforehand.

I've never killed an elk, but nobody needs elk cartridge advice from someone who has killed 3 elk. There are people on this forum that have killed 300. There are dozens who have killed more than 3 with their pickup truck. You're out here pretending you have some serious insight into elk cartridges, and you don't.

The people from the Rockies who kill them year after year for decades aren't using a .223, and I'm certain they would almost universally call you an idiot for suggesting it.

 

[NateVA]

I've never killed an elk

Alright now this surprises me given how upset you seem about this subject.

but nobody needs elk cartridge advice from someone who has killed 3 elk

I don't think you understand the concept of believing what people say outside of your personal experience. You have no experience at all, but also we should disregard the experience of the .223 guys who are posting photographic evidence. All because you think they're being dishonest because they don't agree with you.

You're our here pretending you have some serious insight into elk cartridges, and you don't.

But again, we need to ignore the insight of the guys posting the photos of the elk they killed with .223s because you think they're covering up wounded animals who got away.

The people from the Rockies who kill them year after year for decades aren't using a .223, and I'm certain they would almost universally call you an idiot for suggesting it.

Well I can say I don't doubt that you are very certain about your opinion.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Alright now this surprises me given how upset you seem about this subject.

I don't think you understand the concept of believing what people say outside of your personal experience. You have no experience at all, but also we should disregard the experience of the .223 guys who are posting photographic evidence. All because you think they're being dishonest because they don't agree with you.

But again, we need to ignore the insight of the guys posting the photos of the elk they killed with .223s because you think they're covering up wounded animals who got away.

Well I can say I don't doubt that you are very certain about your opinion.

What opinion am I certain about other than the one that you confirmed for us that is that you should be in this thread to ask questions and learn, not give advice like you know what you're talking about. How old are you?

You're conflating the difference between what is possible and what is reasonable. Sure, you could kill an elephant with a .223 too if everything was perfect, but since things are rarely perfect, you hunt them with a cartridge that works when nothing is perfect. Most people fall in the middle, with am intermediate cartridge for elk.

I want you to do me a favor.... I want you to prove me wrong. Start calling elk guides and outfitters and tell them you want to hunt with them, but you're bringing your .223. When you find one that will allow that, share their number with us.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

 

[NateVA]

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Man I don't even know what's going on at this point. Him never having killed an elk and being this mad threw me for a loop. I feel like I have a concussion.

I want you to do me a favor.... I want you to prove me wrong. Start calling elk guides and outfitters and tell them you want to hunt with them, but you're bringing your .223. When you find one that will allow that, share their number with us.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

I'm going to keep it real man, I'm not going to let you assign me homework over something you have literally no experience with or knowledge of just because you're mad at me. Especially given you've already proven you won't accept any evidence anyway.

@Forrest84 sorry for the thread derail. If you buy a rifle chambered in anything 6mm or bigger (since I don't know what state you're hunting) you're fine. I'm unsure on your goal weight for the rifle you're after but if you could stretch for a Seekins PH2 they're great. If $1500 is a hard limit your inclination to go with a Tikka will always be a solid idea.

And lastly if the factory thing was more of a price limit, Aero has a cool sale going on for Memorial Day right now. The barreled action is 5.5 pounds though so the finished rifle would probably end up in the area of 9.5-10 pounds once you put on a stock/scope. Supposedly you can get an additional 15% off by signing up for their email alerts or whatever. So the below barreled action would be $700. I'm not affiliated with Aero in any way but people seem to like them. If you put a KRG Bravo + TriggerTech Special on this barreled action it would bring your total cost to $1300 and put the weight of the rifle (without a scope) at 8.5 pounds. I don't know if that weight is acceptable to you but if it is I don't know if you're beating that as far as deals go.

SOLUS Barreled Short Action - 24" 6.5 Creedmoor, Fluted Sendero Light

Shop SOLUS Barreled Short Action - 24" 6.5 Creedmoor, Fluted Sendero Light and more at AeroPrecisionUSA.com!

www.aeroprecisionusa.com

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Man I don't even know what's going on at this point. Him never having killed an elk and being this mad threw me for a loop. I feel like I have a concussion.

I'm going to keep it real man, I'm not going to let you assign me homework over something you have literally no experience with or knowledge of just because you're mad at me. Especially given you've already proven you won't accept any evidence anyway.

@Forrest84 sorry for the thread derail. If you buy a rifle chambered in anything 6mm or bigger (since I don't know what state you're hunting) you're fine. I'm unsure on your goal weight for the rifle you're after but if you could stretch for a Seekins PH2 they're great. If $1500 is a hard limit your inclination to go with a Tikka will always be a solid idea.

And lastly if the factory thing was more of a price limit, Aero has a cool sale going on for Memorial Day right now. The barreled action is 5.5 pounds though so the finished rifle would probably end up in the area of 9.5-10 pounds once you put on a stock/scope.

SOLUS Barreled Short Action - 24" 6.5 Creedmoor, Fluted Sendero Light

Shop SOLUS Barreled Short Action - 24" 6.5 Creedmoor, Fluted Sendero Light and more at AeroPrecisionUSA.com!

www.aeroprecisionusa.com

I'm far from mad junior, I just knew what you were right out of the gate. You never did give us your age, but we all know why. I just know bullshit when I smell it, and you wreak.

 

[tuckybill]

Tikka t3 Lam SS in 30/06

 

[Im2bent]

The poor bastard (OP) asked if anyone had experience with Winchester Model 70 with wood stock in 270 or 300WSM because THAT WAS THE ONLY THING HE WAS INTERESTED IN. One person answered correctly.

 

[NateVA]

The poor bastard (OP) asked if anyone had experience with Winchester Model 70 with wood stock in 270 or 300WSM because THAT WAS THE ONLY THING HE WAS INTERESTED IN. One person answered correctly.

My bad. I have a post-64 Winchester and he also asked about their general quality so I'll answer that to try to make amends. Trigger is underwhelming (replaced with a Timney), rifle shoots alright. Good enough for hunting but nothing inspiring. I've since had it cut/threaded by TBAC and had them facemount a CB brake on it for suppressor usage ever since I started using suppressors. It doesn't get used much anymore though. I personally think Tikkas are better bets. Winchester, especially in the last decade, is hit or miss from what little I've heard. And since he said the whole idea started as keeping the cost below $1500, I don't think the last part of my last post is too far off base depending on his desired weight.

 

[Im2bent]

For those interested in 223 for hunting here ya go

77 gr Sierra SMK’s deer hunting

Cleaned the tip with a small jewelers drill bit and the results. 223 w/77 gr SMK at 2780 fps, tagged out with a 234 yard shot & 20 yard recovery. jacket was in the offside hide.

www.snipershide.com

 

[Turkeytider]

The poor bastard (OP) asked if anyone had experience with Winchester Model 70 with wood stock in 270 or 300WSM because THAT WAS THE ONLY THING HE WAS INTERESTED IN. One person answered correctly.

WEEEELLLLL......This is, after all, Sniper`s Hide!

 

[Fig]

it’s one thing to say 5.56 if you live in state and aren’t paying to hunt at out of state rates. I’ve also seen plenty of white tails stacked with an AR. I will say I’ve never seen a great blood trail with one. I’ve seen no blood at all, and a dead deer within 30 yards.

For me it’s a matter of wanting overkill based on the $$$ it costs for me to go.

 

[GO@HORNS]

You're the one who was very adamant that it's unethical and a .223 doesn't work for elk, despite having no experience killing elk with a .223 either. I say it's perfectly feasible because there's a large body of evidence, with photos and everything, indicating it is. When presented with it, you just made up imaginary scenarios as to why it's not true and now you're lashing out at me. When my original reply only used the .223 as an example as to why the OP should just use whatever gun he already has and that he doesn't need anything bigger.

Manufacturers usually give guidelines for it, though not always. So for instance, the below link indicates Hornady says their ELD-X bullets are good down to 1600 fps. Having said that, it's pretty well known and tested that ELD-Xs don't actually do well below 1900 FPS. ELD-X bullets in general are pretty underwhelming and ELD-M bullets do much better with consistent terminal performance especially below 1800 fps. I was usually underwhelmed with ELD-X performance when I used it even at very close range. Barnes uses 1800 fps. Berger says 1800 FPS but from guys testing it they do best above 2000 fps.

What's the maximum range for acceptable terminal performance with ELD-X bullets? - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

It depends on retained velocity and is therefore cartridge dependent. In general, the ELD-X bullets will provide reliable and effective terminal performance up to velocities of approximately 1,600 feet per second. Click here for more information on Hor...

www.hornady.com

Sorry, but Ive got to agree with

Hecouldgoalltheway​

on this one!!

 

[BlackRock601]

In some states, such as VA, it is illegal to kill even a whitetail with 223. I've killed elk with 6.5creed and 243. Those are both good. 223? No.

 

[Evintos]

https://www.howausa.com/super-deluxe-walnut/

Howa 1500 Super Deluxe Walnut. Comes with threaded barrel if you every want to add a muzzle device or suppressor. Retails for around $750ish so well within your budget.

Or regular Walnut Hunter. Also with threaded barrel. Retails anywhere from $550 to $700.

https://www.howausa.com/rifles/walnut/