Night Vision Looking to purchase first thermal clip on

[CTM1]

Evolution 9​

I have followed your posts for years and you make excellent points and out of experience.

One of the problems when we talk about the OASYS UTM specifically is that it was marketed as a "military style (real) clip on that has collimation", but it was not really true, but most people do not know this. Unfortunately, this is where so many including myself got had and I was probably the second person to ever own one. As you mentioned you are not going to get repeatable results if the thermal device is not collimated to begin with.

People like Waddles0931 and another over on AR have reported their UTM's are collimated and some read these reports and roll the dice only to discover something other.

As far as the Wilcox FTS Mount I guess you would agree that since most UTM's and Skeet IR's are not collimated aka not real military clip on's you are not going to see repeatable results when in the FTS mount. So, I think this is where much of the shade stems from.

 

[Evolution 9]

Evolution 9​

I have followed your posts for years and you make excellent points and out of experience.

One of the problems when we talk about the OASYS UTM specifically is that it was marketed as a "military style (real) clip on that has collimation", but it was not really true, but most people do not know this. Unfortunately, this is where so many including myself got had and I was probably the second person to ever own one. As you mentioned you are not going to get repeatable results if the thermal device is not collimated to begin with.

People like Waddles0931 and another over on AR have reported their UTM's are collimated and some read these reports and roll the dice only to discover something other.

As far as the Wilcox FTS Mount I guess you would agree that since most UTM's and Skeet IR's are not collimated aka not real military clip on's you are not going to see repeatable results when in the FTS mount. So, I think this is where much of the shade stems from.

You’re probably correct about where much of the misunderstanding comes from. I’ve seen UTMs and Skeetir-Ls that were well collimated across a few rifles that they were tested on, but you mostly need UTM-X or Skeetir-X to get that result… perhaps a more significant name change would have been wise when reliable collimation came into the picture.

I wouldn’t stand behind the abilities of any non-collimated thermal (civilian or military) in any mount whatsoever when used in a clip on capacity. They usually have to be mounted to the hand guard, and most of us don’t trust hand guards for mounting scopes, due to flex among other reasons. I know some people have had acceptable results, but it’s not an avenue that I’m interested in messing with.

 

[shoots100]

Went down the clip on rabbit hole years ago.
Friends don't let Friends use clip on's.
SJC

 

[Evolution 9]

Went down the clip on rabbit hole years ago.
Friends don't let Friends use clip on's.
SJC

For most civilian users, they are the wrong tool.

Those who need them tend to know they need them.

I keep both around for different purposes.

 

[Simonsza1]

Went down the clip on rabbit hole years ago.
Friends don't let Friends use clip on's.
SJC

I wasn’t going to chime in even though I wanted to say this 30 post ago. I usually tell all my customers that are thinking a clipon to go with a dedicted. If their hearts are set on one then so be it but I do my best. The performance on the dedicated units is so much better and with AGM ours using the ADM mounts are just so easy to move around.

 

[AbaloneStill]

It’s obvious that many of the respondents here have never owned the devices in question.

LWTS - yes, it’s still very capable. Collimation is usually very good. Image isn’t as good as the UTM-X. Expect to pay 4500

UTM - most are not collimated (do not consider this an option)

UTM-X - there are several iterations. Some iterations have better collimation than others. If you find one you’re considering, pm me and I’ll let you know what version you’re looking at. Many of these are EXCELLENT still today. Expect to pay 4500-5500 for a fully collimated one.

CNVD-T - in 2025 I’d avoid 320 units but they can do the job in a pinch.

Those dogging on the Wilcox flip to side mounts for supposedly not returning to zero have no clue what they’re talking about. The WHOLE POINT of a collimated clip on is that the clip on isn’t affected by slight misalignment . I’ve used that mount under every condition you will encounter, and intentionally induced misalignment… it doesn’t affect anything at all if you’re using a collimated thermal as a clip on. I shoot tiny little groups with mine, which wouldn’t be possible if there was any truth to this.

If you’re using the thermal with its own reticle or you’re using a “zero the screen” type imitation clip on, you may have a problem, but this is a discussion about clip ons in clip on configuration.

Now, there are about 4 guys on the Hide with the budget for the range finding version of the Voodoo-M. There may be moments where the Wilcox mount could affect their disturbed reticle placement… so if you’re one of those 4, you can discuss the Wilcox mount. If you’re not, and you think it affects your point of impact, you don’t understand what collimation means, and haven’t tested what you’re saying with a precision rifle. Regardless, the OP is considering clip ons that wouldn’t be affected by this.

I have actually owned each of the devices we’re discussing here and used/tested them thoroughly.

The Wilcox mount is absolutely fantastic.

The UTM-X (if you choose the right generation) is the best bang for the buck and is absolutely still among the better performers. Its image is nearly identical to the $16,000 current issue Voodoo-S.

Voodoo-S - way above your current price point. Basically a UTM-X but much smaller and lighter.

Pm'd you about UTM-x versions and stuff.