So I took my scout squad m1a out today for the first time. I did an initial cleaning but couldn't clean the gas system for lack of the special wrench. I tried to remove the plug with a 3/8 end wrench with no luck. I have the sadlak kit on order. The gas piston was a little sticky and didn't move freely. Well I have been itching to shoot this rifle so I took it out anyways. It would fire 2-3 rounds fine then fire but not ignite the primer. Its not seating the round fully in the chamber. I can see where the firing pin is hitting the primer but very lightly not enough to fire the round. It also seems to be banging the casings up pretty bad. I was shooting federal 160gr .308 and american eagle 7.26 made for m1a ammo. It did this with both. Is this due to the gas piston being grimy and sticking? I sure hope so or ill be pissed and sending it back to springfield. Why they make that plug so tight is beyond me.
- Thread starter sirtirithon
- Start date
Re: m1a not functioning correctly
GI parts or SA current aftermarket parts? There is a firing pin gauge for the 14 similar to the 16 gauge, to me it sounds like a headspace problem? Could be a weak firing pin spring but I doubt it. If the bolt locks up and it sounds like it is as the hammer drops and the firing pin hits leads me to doubt it is your gas system.
GI parts or SA current aftermarket parts? There is a firing pin gauge for the 14 similar to the 16 gauge, to me it sounds like a headspace problem? Could be a weak firing pin spring but I doubt it. If the bolt locks up and it sounds like it is as the hammer drops and the firing pin hits leads me to doubt it is your gas system.
Re: m1a not functioning correctly
I've seen a couple of M1A's in my day with similar problems. One was caused by a broken firing pin. Might want to check that first.
I've seen a couple of M1A's in my day with similar problems. One was caused by a broken firing pin. Might want to check that first.
Re: m1a not functioning correctly
If the bolt isn't going fully into battery, don't attempt fire the rifle until you have it checked over by a competent smith. If you manage to fire it out of battery, you're most likely going to have a nasty KA-BOOOM right in your face...
If the bolt isn't going fully into battery, don't attempt fire the rifle until you have it checked over by a competent smith. If you manage to fire it out of battery, you're most likely going to have a nasty KA-BOOOM right in your face...
Re: m1a not functioning correctly
If you know that the round is not seated/bolt not closed properly... do not shoot the rifle, it could have an "out of battery" ignition which could be dangerous.
Did you field strip the rifle to clean it? If so, did you grease the rifle prior to shooting it? Without grease, the rifle (M14 types) do not function smoothly. The bolt may also be new and a bit tight (at the locking lugs). After a proper greasing, rack the op rod/bolt back and forth. It should move freely.
M14 type rifles are very durable rifles and racking the op rod/bolt back and forth will not damage the rifle (just don't let the bolt slam home). Dry firing the rifle should also not cause any damage. I believe racking the op rod back and forth (on a new rifle and after being properly greased) helps smooth out any burrs and aids in break-in.
IMO, the type of problem you are describing is not usually caused by "short stroking" or due to the gas system. It could simply be "breaking-in" but without more detailed information it is really difficult to help.
Like when you describe your brass getting "banged up"... are you describing ejection marks or damage being caused by a "rough" chamber?
Also, "rounds not being fully seated in the chamber..." What did you see that made you say that? Are you looking at the right side lug on your bolt being fully seated in your receiver when in battery?
The more information you provide will make it easier for folks to help out when a problem arises.
But if you do have an unsafe condition, you could return the rifle to where you bought it or use the lifetime warranty that Springfield Armory has. They usually pay for shipping as well on warranty work.
Sorry I could not be of more help, but there are so many variables that could contribute to this condition that without more information it might be "shooting in the dark" or guessing.
But in any case, do not give up on the rifle yet. There is usually a good explanation for these type of problems.
BTW... on the gas system... a loose gas plug has been the culprit for many M14 malfunctions which is usually why the plug is tightened pretty firmly but is easily loosened with the right tools. I'm not recommending this but some have improvised with tools on hand like a vise and a 3/8th inch wrench.
Good luck.
If you know that the round is not seated/bolt not closed properly... do not shoot the rifle, it could have an "out of battery" ignition which could be dangerous.
Did you field strip the rifle to clean it? If so, did you grease the rifle prior to shooting it? Without grease, the rifle (M14 types) do not function smoothly. The bolt may also be new and a bit tight (at the locking lugs). After a proper greasing, rack the op rod/bolt back and forth. It should move freely.
M14 type rifles are very durable rifles and racking the op rod/bolt back and forth will not damage the rifle (just don't let the bolt slam home). Dry firing the rifle should also not cause any damage. I believe racking the op rod back and forth (on a new rifle and after being properly greased) helps smooth out any burrs and aids in break-in.
IMO, the type of problem you are describing is not usually caused by "short stroking" or due to the gas system. It could simply be "breaking-in" but without more detailed information it is really difficult to help.
Like when you describe your brass getting "banged up"... are you describing ejection marks or damage being caused by a "rough" chamber?
Also, "rounds not being fully seated in the chamber..." What did you see that made you say that? Are you looking at the right side lug on your bolt being fully seated in your receiver when in battery?
The more information you provide will make it easier for folks to help out when a problem arises.
But if you do have an unsafe condition, you could return the rifle to where you bought it or use the lifetime warranty that Springfield Armory has. They usually pay for shipping as well on warranty work.
Sorry I could not be of more help, but there are so many variables that could contribute to this condition that without more information it might be "shooting in the dark" or guessing.
But in any case, do not give up on the rifle yet. There is usually a good explanation for these type of problems.
BTW... on the gas system... a loose gas plug has been the culprit for many M14 malfunctions which is usually why the plug is tightened pretty firmly but is easily loosened with the right tools. I'm not recommending this but some have improvised with tools on hand like a vise and a 3/8th inch wrench.
Good luck.
Re: m1a not functioning correctly
The proper tools for gas cylinder disassembly and reassembly are the gas plug wrench (combination tool), and a gas cylinder wrench. Unless the gas cylinder is held properly stationary, it is possible to exert enough force attempting to unscrew the gas cylinder plug first time from the factory to shatter the stock through the magazine cutout. I know this from experience.
While holding the gas cylinder in a vise will work, it is important not to tighten the vise too firmly. There can even be some air gap. The point is to prevent rotation without applying any significant force to the gas cylinder. The proper tools are a far better solution.
A light primer indent can be a symptom of incomplete battery. The firing pin and receiver are designed with a receiver cutout that is intended to shield the firing pin from hammer impact if the bolt is not fully rotated into battery. Another potential cause can be firing pin blockage due to foregn matter within its raceway.
Some causes of incomplete closure can include lack of proper bolt lube and ammunition with excessive shoulder length. Short headspace can be another reason. Factory M-80 ball equivalent ammo (i.e. American Eagle 150gr) should not be involved in such an issue unless there' a lube or headspace issue. Bolt raceway slots, lug locking recesses, and the oprod cavity should have a light layer of White Moly (Lubriplate) grease. The bolt roller should rotate freely. The oprod needs light grease lube where it passes through the guide. Headpace can only be properly checked with proper headspace gauges, preferably by an experienced M1A/M14 'smith.
While many things are possible; some are less likely. A dirty gas system seldom reaches the stage where it prevents proper cycling, even after many hundreds of rounds.
Greg
The proper tools for gas cylinder disassembly and reassembly are the gas plug wrench (combination tool), and a gas cylinder wrench. Unless the gas cylinder is held properly stationary, it is possible to exert enough force attempting to unscrew the gas cylinder plug first time from the factory to shatter the stock through the magazine cutout. I know this from experience.
While holding the gas cylinder in a vise will work, it is important not to tighten the vise too firmly. There can even be some air gap. The point is to prevent rotation without applying any significant force to the gas cylinder. The proper tools are a far better solution.
A light primer indent can be a symptom of incomplete battery. The firing pin and receiver are designed with a receiver cutout that is intended to shield the firing pin from hammer impact if the bolt is not fully rotated into battery. Another potential cause can be firing pin blockage due to foregn matter within its raceway.
Some causes of incomplete closure can include lack of proper bolt lube and ammunition with excessive shoulder length. Short headspace can be another reason. Factory M-80 ball equivalent ammo (i.e. American Eagle 150gr) should not be involved in such an issue unless there' a lube or headspace issue. Bolt raceway slots, lug locking recesses, and the oprod cavity should have a light layer of White Moly (Lubriplate) grease. The bolt roller should rotate freely. The oprod needs light grease lube where it passes through the guide. Headpace can only be properly checked with proper headspace gauges, preferably by an experienced M1A/M14 'smith.
While many things are possible; some are less likely. A dirty gas system seldom reaches the stage where it prevents proper cycling, even after many hundreds of rounds.
Greg
Re: m1a not functioning correctly
Strange that it would fire 2-3 rounds and then fail to chamber the next one. Did the round chamber when pushing the bolt closed with the charging handle or would it just not chamber at all? Did you clean the recoil spring and spring guide? Mine started having ejection issues because of a dirty/sticky recoil spring. Never had feeding issues though.
Strange that it would fire 2-3 rounds and then fail to chamber the next one. Did the round chamber when pushing the bolt closed with the charging handle or would it just not chamber at all? Did you clean the recoil spring and spring guide? Mine started having ejection issues because of a dirty/sticky recoil spring. Never had feeding issues though.
Re: m1a not functioning correctly
Last I checked Springfield had pretty good customer service. Worst case scenario you could send it in and have them take a look at it.
Last I checked Springfield had pretty good customer service. Worst case scenario you could send it in and have them take a look at it.
Re: m1a not functioning correctly
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m21black</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could be a weak firing pin spring but I doubt it. </div></div>
I doubt it too since it does not even have a firing pin spring.
Try single loading rounds in the chamber without a mag in the rifle. Don't let the bolt just fly; ease it down some as the action is designed to have the drag of the round coming out of the mag when the bolt closes. Make sure the bolt is camming closed all the way, not hanging up part way. Don't puss it too much or the extractor won't snap over the rim.
We want to first try to isolate the mag from the rifle to see if you have a magazine issue.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m21black</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could be a weak firing pin spring but I doubt it. </div></div>
I doubt it too since it does not even have a firing pin spring.
Try single loading rounds in the chamber without a mag in the rifle. Don't let the bolt just fly; ease it down some as the action is designed to have the drag of the round coming out of the mag when the bolt closes. Make sure the bolt is camming closed all the way, not hanging up part way. Don't puss it too much or the extractor won't snap over the rim.
We want to first try to isolate the mag from the rifle to see if you have a magazine issue.
Re: m1a not functioning correctly
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sirtirithon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I took my scout squad m1a out today for the first time. I did an initial cleaning but couldn't clean the gas system for lack of the special wrench. I tried to remove the plug with a 3/8 end wrench with no luck. I have the sadlak kit on order. <span style="color: #FF0000">The gas piston was a little sticky and didn't move freely</span>. Well I have been itching to shoot this rifle so I took it out anyways. It would fire 2-3 rounds fine then fire but not ignite the primer. Its not seating the round fully in the chamber. I can see where the firing pin is hitting the primer but very lightly not enough to fire the round. It also seems to be banging the casings up pretty bad. I was shooting federal 160gr .308 and american eagle 7.26 made for m1a ammo. It did this with both. Is this due to the gas piston being grimy and sticking? I sure hope so or ill be pissed and sending it back to springfield. Why they make that plug so tight is beyond me. </div></div>
The part I highlighted in red says it all. Something isn't quite right with the gas system. It should move freely. Might just have crap in it, might be a little outa-whack. Either way, get that thing apart and inspect the gas system for uneven wear or gunk in there.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sirtirithon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I took my scout squad m1a out today for the first time. I did an initial cleaning but couldn't clean the gas system for lack of the special wrench. I tried to remove the plug with a 3/8 end wrench with no luck. I have the sadlak kit on order. <span style="color: #FF0000">The gas piston was a little sticky and didn't move freely</span>. Well I have been itching to shoot this rifle so I took it out anyways. It would fire 2-3 rounds fine then fire but not ignite the primer. Its not seating the round fully in the chamber. I can see where the firing pin is hitting the primer but very lightly not enough to fire the round. It also seems to be banging the casings up pretty bad. I was shooting federal 160gr .308 and american eagle 7.26 made for m1a ammo. It did this with both. Is this due to the gas piston being grimy and sticking? I sure hope so or ill be pissed and sending it back to springfield. Why they make that plug so tight is beyond me. </div></div>
The part I highlighted in red says it all. Something isn't quite right with the gas system. It should move freely. Might just have crap in it, might be a little outa-whack. Either way, get that thing apart and inspect the gas system for uneven wear or gunk in there.
Re: m1a not functioning correctly
I think the OP meant that the hammer would drop but the round would not fire.
Classic failure to lock the bolt problem. Hammer falls, nose hits camming surface on the bolt, rotates bolt the rest of the way, and all that's on the primer is either a normal loose firing pin rattle dimple like from any other chambered round, OR
more cause for concern...
a deeper dent from what was left of the hammer energy getting transferred to the firing pin. That *might* be a sign of bad dimensions in the receiver bridge.
Now, I agree that it's rare for dirty gas system to get so bad as to stop the op rod from going fully forward. It goes close to half an inch further *after* the bolt is fully locked, but if the op rod is hanging up elsewhere, it won't push the gas cylinder's "entry hole" into alignment with the port. The shot then pretty much safely fired because the bolt *is* fully rotated will then suffer from gas not getting all the way into the INSIDE of the gas piston, and short-stroking can result...or just not having quite enough op rod speed to fully seat the next round or close the bolt.
Since the gas port standard is 12,500 CUP, any dirty gas piston is pretty much sure to go BACKWARDS with enough zip. It's what happens coming back that makes the difference.
To check for oprod problems, take rifle out of stock, remove spring and guide, and re-assemble rifle. Bolt should fully open and close on at empty chamber at 45 degrees tilt either way. Or less IMO, if things are right. Some people say 60 degrees (more vertical, from horizontal, or 30 degrees away from dead up).
Hope this helps.
A 6-point BOX wrench is the only way to go on that gas cylinder plug. THEN have a brass or plastic drift and light hammer handy if you want to take the cylinder off of the barrel, like for peening the parts together to enhance accuracy.
I think the OP meant that the hammer would drop but the round would not fire.
Classic failure to lock the bolt problem. Hammer falls, nose hits camming surface on the bolt, rotates bolt the rest of the way, and all that's on the primer is either a normal loose firing pin rattle dimple like from any other chambered round, OR
more cause for concern...
a deeper dent from what was left of the hammer energy getting transferred to the firing pin. That *might* be a sign of bad dimensions in the receiver bridge.
Now, I agree that it's rare for dirty gas system to get so bad as to stop the op rod from going fully forward. It goes close to half an inch further *after* the bolt is fully locked, but if the op rod is hanging up elsewhere, it won't push the gas cylinder's "entry hole" into alignment with the port. The shot then pretty much safely fired because the bolt *is* fully rotated will then suffer from gas not getting all the way into the INSIDE of the gas piston, and short-stroking can result...or just not having quite enough op rod speed to fully seat the next round or close the bolt.
Since the gas port standard is 12,500 CUP, any dirty gas piston is pretty much sure to go BACKWARDS with enough zip. It's what happens coming back that makes the difference.
To check for oprod problems, take rifle out of stock, remove spring and guide, and re-assemble rifle. Bolt should fully open and close on at empty chamber at 45 degrees tilt either way. Or less IMO, if things are right. Some people say 60 degrees (more vertical, from horizontal, or 30 degrees away from dead up).
Hope this helps.
A 6-point BOX wrench is the only way to go on that gas cylinder plug. THEN have a brass or plastic drift and light hammer handy if you want to take the cylinder off of the barrel, like for peening the parts together to enhance accuracy.
Re: m1a not functioning correctly
I would check headspsce immediately, clean the chamber and gas system and check headspace again(REMEMBER: SA has a great warranty and like it or not you will be using it, my rifles have all gone back, some even three times, When in doubt send it to Sprigfield).When you do send it for work be assertive and tell them EXACTLY what you want done and what parts you want replaced or you will be sending it back right away.
The light firing pin is normal for a floating firing pin(even if the trigger is not pulled and the round is manually cycled through it will have a light firing pin mark.) If you manage an out of battery discharge it is an event you will never forget and you will have an m1a that will fit in a shoe box. I have had some m1as with very tight chambers and even sizing with a Small base die it still would not chamber rounds. The solution for me was to get a redding body die and bump the shoulder down even more. After that it runs like a top. The m1a is a different animal, it took me a year of reading and trial and error to get to where I feel I know how to care and feed for my m1as. Your first homework assignment is to get the Zeldiker publishing article on m1a reloading, your second is to get the m14 owners guide by Scott Duff, your third is to join the m-14 forum and ask lots of questions.
The m14 is a great platform but if you are not up to speed on it you are playing with fire and will get burned.
Good luck and dont give up.
Brian
I would check headspsce immediately, clean the chamber and gas system and check headspace again(REMEMBER: SA has a great warranty and like it or not you will be using it, my rifles have all gone back, some even three times, When in doubt send it to Sprigfield).When you do send it for work be assertive and tell them EXACTLY what you want done and what parts you want replaced or you will be sending it back right away.
The light firing pin is normal for a floating firing pin(even if the trigger is not pulled and the round is manually cycled through it will have a light firing pin mark.) If you manage an out of battery discharge it is an event you will never forget and you will have an m1a that will fit in a shoe box. I have had some m1as with very tight chambers and even sizing with a Small base die it still would not chamber rounds. The solution for me was to get a redding body die and bump the shoulder down even more. After that it runs like a top. The m1a is a different animal, it took me a year of reading and trial and error to get to where I feel I know how to care and feed for my m1as. Your first homework assignment is to get the Zeldiker publishing article on m1a reloading, your second is to get the m14 owners guide by Scott Duff, your third is to join the m-14 forum and ask lots of questions.
The m14 is a great platform but if you are not up to speed on it you are playing with fire and will get burned.
Good luck and dont give up.
Brian
Re: m1a not functioning correctly
http://www.zediker.com/downloads/m14.html
The M1A is brutal on brass read the above article and you will understand why and what you can do to lengthen brass life a little. The article is an outstanding read and is well presented.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduc...Videos & Software-_-PriceCompListing-_-445261
Scotts book is a great reference and also mandatory reading.
http://www.zediker.com/downloads/m14.html
The M1A is brutal on brass read the above article and you will understand why and what you can do to lengthen brass life a little. The article is an outstanding read and is well presented.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduc...Videos & Software-_-PriceCompListing-_-445261
Scotts book is a great reference and also mandatory reading.
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