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Make Your Case: Long Action as your only rifle

Or just do what the marines are doing and pick up a Barret MRAD kit with .308, 300 Norma, and 338 Norma load outs and be done with it

Nah, because people are either still stuck in the 1960's as far as action design or are too cheap to pay for good rifles that reliably run both LA and SA rounds and actually have good magazine options available for both.

AI and Barrett are the ONLY companies that do it well. AI takes the cake for overall rifle design, and barrel availability though.
 
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Ahh yes, I just looked those up.

I mean the max 137.5gr capacity is nice upgrade over the .338 LM's 116gr.

It would appear that you'd need a LONG long action to load the 33xc or 37xc as the cases are much longer than the .338LM and "even longer than the cheytac"


4.4" OAL on the Cheytac?... Longer case on the 33xc So you'd be single-loading right?

Extreme-Long-Range-ELR-Cartridge-Caliber-Comparison.jpg
338 action single feeding for the XC cases
 
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Hahahaha, nope, can't defend them. The short action is morally superior. Sure, lawyers can twist the truth and mount a defense, but why?

The whole premise of these "if you could blah blah blah" questions, IMO, is silly anyhow. Parsing down scenarios and "what ifs" to the minutia.
I agree with most of your post except this part. That "premise" is exactly why alot people join forums in the first place. I have heard all of the arguments for a short action. I have one. Look at the decision by special operations, Barrett MRAD. Granted their requirements are different but they were still asking themselves "We need one multicaliber rifle, what should it be?" and they decided on a rifle capable of shooting .308 all the way up to 300 Norma. So I am considering the same concept but in a standard LA rifle.

I know that the Short Action is the easy choice, I am already convinced of that. Was wondering if anybody could give a good argument for the LA. If your only contribution is to shit on the idea, thats fine, but its unproductive and not really my initial question/request.
 
But they’re not wanting to be competitive in a fairly specialized gear competition.

And as of now you’re stuck with their barrels and cartridge choices.
 
Nah, because people are either still stuck in the 1960's as far as action design or are too cheap to pay for good rifles that reliably run both LA and SA rounds and actually have good magazine options available for both.

AI and Barrett are the ONLY companies that do it well. AI takes the cake for overall rifle design, and barrel availability though.
If I could afford an MRAD or an AI I would go that route.
 
You can't afford $5K for an MRAD but you can afford to flush money down the drain for a setup that isn't going to work for what you want it to do?
What the hell is your problem man? Do you just come on here to get pissed and talk shit? If you have nothing to add shut your damn mouth and go check in at the Bear Pit.
 
I agree with most of your post except this part. That "premise" is exactly why alot people join forums in the first place. I have heard all of the arguments for a short action. I have one. Look at the decision by special operations, Barrett MRAD. Granted their requirements are different but they were still asking themselves "We need one multicaliber rifle, what should it be?" and they decided on a rifle capable of shooting .308 all the way up to 300 Norma. So I am considering the same concept but in a standard LA rifle.

I know that the Short Action is the easy choice, I am already convinced of that. Was wondering if anybody could give a good argument for the LA. If your only contribution is to shit on the idea, thats fine, but its unproductive and not really my initial question/request.

Well, you called for that exact sort of comment in your edit. It is a snarky response to the whole premise of the question. I do think the premise is faulty and MANY MANY people on these forums, most, end up buying specialized guns for each of their needs. The pure switch barrel rarely stays a switch barrel and the premise of guys going into the switch barrel is wrong. It isn't good in practical execution.

Besides, as a lawyer, making fun of the premise, rephrasing the premise, changing the premise, is redefining the question for the jury... and, it works. But, it won't work for a juror who has already decided all cops are dirty or all defendants are guilty. It didn't work with you cause you have already made your mind up I guess.

I am glad that you got some value from the other comments.

If you want the MRAD or AI, buy the system. Making your own is really hard for all the reasons above. Desert Tech is another possibility with the conversions.

I have read and heard enough to know that what the military chooses isn't always cause it is the best or smartest or etc. etc. So, I am not persuaded by the idea of a switch barrel system that goes from .223 to .338. It absolutely can be done in a long action.

Ultimately, for your purposes, if single feeding a 7mm or 300 wsm can meet your ELR requirements, then the short action eliminates the most problems and leaves you with one bug, single feeding long ELR cartridges which is what most people do there. So, the only real problem is extracting a loaded round if you don't shoot it or it fails to detonate.
 
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I didn't see the comments above mine that you are budgeted out of the MRAD when I posted...
 
What the hell is your problem man? Do you just come on here to get pissed and talk shit? If you have nothing to add shut your damn mouth and go check in at the Bear Pit.

Butthurt much? I'm not pissed nor talking shit. Just telling you the truth, sorry that it's not what you want to hear. You're not going to make a 700 LA feed both LA and SA rounds. PERIOD. It's not going to happen.

If you can't afford an MRAD then no, you can't afford to be wasting money on shit that isn't going to work. You're literally talking about spending $4K minimum on an action with a couple bolt and barrel setups that isn't going to work and is going to have shit for resale value when you realize it doesn't work. Go ahead and waste your money though. I couldn't care less.
 
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Well, you called for that exact sort of comment in your edit. It is a snarky response to the whole premise of the question. I do think the premise is faulty and MANY MANY people on these forums, most, end up buying specialized guns for each of their needs. The pure switch barrel rarely stays a switch barrel and the premise of guys going into the switch barrel is wrong. It isn't good in practical execution.

Besides, as a lawyer, making fun of the premise, rephrasing the premise, changing the premise, is redefining the question for the jury... and, it works. But, it won't work for a juror who has already decided all cops are dirty or all defendants are guilty. It didn't work with you cause you have already made your mind up I guess.

I am glad that you got some value from the other comments.

If you want the MRAD or AI, buy the system. Making your own is really hard for all the reasons above. Desert Tech is another possibility with the conversions.

I have read and heard enough to know that what the military chooses isn't always cause it is the best or smartest or etc. etc. So, I am not persuaded by the idea of a switch barrel system that goes from .223 to .338. It absolutely can be done in a long action.

Ultimately, for your purposes, if single feeding a 7mm or 300 wsm can meet your ELR requirements, then the short action eliminates the most problems and leaves you with one bug, single feeding long ELR cartridges which is what most people do there. So, the only real problem is extracting a loaded round if you don't shoot it or it fails to detonate.
I think single feeding the ELR Limited cartridges is definitely an option.

To clarify I dont need a system that will shoot .223 or anything smaller than a standard bf cartridge.

When I edited the post i was trying to clarify that i have already heard the prosecutions side(Short Action Rules) and as a juror I am leaning towards the prosectution. But like any responsible juror both sides need to be heard to make sure I am not missing something. Maybe there is another perspective i have missed. What i have received so far are a bunch of additional cases for SHORT ACTION, being called a Retard lol, and people suggesting opinions i have not asked for.

I asked this question in the Bolt Action Rifles section of the forum, Not Maggies Drawers, I expect inelligent input and someone to make their case for the LA even if they think short action is the answer.

I appreciate the feedback.
 
Damn you really are sensitive. I was calling the idea retarded, not you but if the shoe fits wear it I suppose.

Do you really think you’re the first person that has thought of this? If you do go through with it, do you think you’ll be the only one to have tried it? If it could work or even if making special mags or a bottom metal assembly to adapt one of the existing systems do you really think they wouldn’t have made it by now instead of having to build entire rifle systems around the mags to be able to run both?

There’s examples from over two decades ago where this was tried and it doesn’t fucking work. If you want a rifle that’s going to work with both you’re either going to have to pony up the cash for it or you’re going to have to build two rifles.

An MRAD or AXMC with one quality optic and a caliber conversion kit is less expensive than putting together two quality rifle builds and buying two optics.
 
Butthurt much? I'm not pissed nor talking shit. Just telling you the truth, sorry that it's not what you want to hear. You're not going to make a 700 LA feed both LA and SA rounds. PERIOD. It's not going to happen.

If you can't afford an MRAD then no, you can't afford to be wasting money on shit that isn't going to work. You're literally talking about spending $4K minimum on an action with a couple bolt and barrel setups that isn't going to work and is going to have shit for resale value when you realize it doesn't work. Go ahead and waste your money though. I couldn't care less.
Not butt hurt at all, but i think you can give better feedback than what you have. I have thick skin and the name calling i can handle but i will push people to get a better response that actually answers the question i posed. Make an argument for a Long Action rifle that can shoot a PRS style match, make a good lightweight hunting gun, and also dabble in an ELR style match if desired. How would you do it besides an AI/MRAD.

Also, Why has everyone assumed I want or HAVE to feed SA calibers from a long action magazine. Never said that. Would it be nice, yes but i never said it was a requirement. Thats why i made the quote in the edited post that it was rediculous for that to be a short action argument. I dont care if it can feed a .223 or even a 308 from a DBM. Now I may have been a cause for the confusion when i compared it to the AI and the MRAD but only meant that in versatility, not that it had to match their magazine reliability.
 
More than one person 'made a case' for the long action. Its best if thats gonna be your primary focus and what you mainly use it for. And they also explained why a long action wasn't the best use of money and resources.

You didn't like the answer

No one shoots PRS matches with long actions and short action cartridges. If you're gonna shoot a PRS match you're damn sure gonna want to mag feed them. And that's what you said in your OP

Confirmation bias. Every day. We get it.
 
Damn you really are sensitive. I was calling the idea retarded, not you but if the shoe fits wear it I suppose.

Do you really think you’re the first person that has thought of this? If you do go through with it, do you think you’ll be the only one to have tried it? If it could work or even if making special mags or a bottom metal assembly to adapt one of the existing systems do you really think they wouldn’t have made it by now instead of having to build entire rifle systems around the mags to be able to run both?

There’s examples from over two decades ago where this was tried and it doesn’t fucking work. If you want a rifle that’s going to work with both you’re either going to have to pony up the cash for it or you’re going to have to build two rifles.

An MRAD or AXMC with one quality optic and a caliber conversion kit is less expensive than putting together two quality rifle builds and buying two optics.
Ok Truce. I'm not mad, im not crying, im not emotional in anyway. I legit want your input. I dont think i am the first person to ask this but i didnt find much on here about it. If you know of a similar thread point me to it.
 
you can shoot a 284 or 280ai or '06 variant in PRS but it wouldn't be fun or an advantage. If you want 15" tall single stack magazine's then go for it. But when you state your objectives. Make sure you know what you're talking about
 
Not butt hurt at all, but i think you can give better feedback than what you have. I have thick skin and the name calling i can handle but i will push people to get a better response that actually answers the question i posed. Make an argument for a Long Action rifle that can shoot a PRS style match, make a good lightweight hunting gun, and also dabble in an ELR style match if desired. How would you do it besides an AI/MRAD.

Also, Why has everyone assumed I want or HAVE to feed SA calibers from a long action magazine. Never said that. Would it be nice, yes but i never said it was a requirement. Thats why i made the quote in the edited post that it was rediculous for that to be a short action argument. I dont care if it can feed a .223 or even a 308 from a DBM. Now I may have been a cause for the confusion when i compared it to the AI and the MRAD but only meant that in versatility, not that it had to match their magazine reliability.

You don’t care if it can feed SA, then what are you going to shoot at a PRS match? If you think you’re going to single feed at a match, well have fun fumbling with rounds and maybe getting 2-3 off. If you’re planning on shooting PRS with a long action with single feed AICS pattern mags then have fun with 5 round mags or long 10 round mags that hang down further than your bipod adjusts.

I made an argument for a LA rifle that will work for PRS, two of them actually but it’s not what you want to hear. What you want isnt going to work, it’s that simple. So either run a LA rifle with a LA chambering or a SA rifle or buy one of each. You’re looking for a jack of all trades which is non existent in itself and then you want to do it on the cheap too. If there was one bolt gun that did everything great then everyone else would be out of business. Something like an AXMC or MRAD is as closer as you’re going to get.
 
Ok Truce. I'm not mad, im not crying, im not emotional in anyway. I legit want your input. I dont think i am the first person to ask this but i didnt find much on here about it. If you know of a similar thread point me to it.

You got my input as well as other people’s. It’s not what you want to hear though. You’re unreasonable in what you’re looking for.
 
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More than one person 'made a case' for the long action. Its best if thats gonna be your primary focus and what you mainly use it for. And they also explained why a long action wasn't the best use of money and resources.

You didn't like the answer

No one shoots PRS matches with long actions and short action cartridges. If you're gonna shoot a PRS match you're damn sure gonna want to mag feed them. And that's what you said in your OP

Confirmation bias. Every day. We get it.
I think the problem is that people thought that i wanted them to convince me to choose Short Action. But i specifically asked for people to make the case for a Long Action as their only rifle. If you completely disagree and think thats a stupid fucking idea, thats fine with me, move on to the next thread. But if yo think a case could be made then make it.

This isnt another "Help me pick a rifle" thread. at least i didnt want it to be.
 
I think the problem is that people thought that i wanted them to convince me to choose Short Action. But i specifically asked for people to make the case for a Long Action as their only rifle. If you completely disagree and think thats a stupid fucking idea, thats fine with me, move on to the next thread. But if yo think a case could be made then make it.

This isnt another "Help me pick a rifle" thread. at least i didnt want it to be.
There's plenty of ways to make a long action a 'one action'. Especially something like a Mausingfield or Lone Peak that can run all 3 boltfaces
582 boltface for 33/37XC single feeding
582 boltface for Norma mag fed hunting
545 BF for 300PRC 7MAX hunting or ELR hybrid matches
473 for 284 or similar shirt coal long action cartridges mag fed for actual PRS matches
 
There's plenty of ways to make a long action a 'one action'. Especially something like a Mausingfield or Lone Peak that can run all 3 boltfaces
582 boltface for 33/37XC single feeding
582 boltface for Norma mag fed hunting
545 BF for 300PRC 7MAX hunting or ELR hybrid matches
473 for 284 or similar shirt coal long action cartridges mag fed for actual PRS matches
Good argument. I was not aware until learning through this thread that the Mausingfield could handle a 582 bolt face. Thats big time. And i think the 284 is probably the most practical for a PRS style match if using a long action, epsecially the ones around my area, Oklahoma that tend to be in high winds and longer distances. would have to do get proficient at mag changes though.
 
What were the negatives you guys experienced. I dont think I would want a true "switch barrel" set up but just the ability to change calibers fairly easily.

It's just not as convenient as you may think. Taking the current barrel off, putting a new barrel on, changing out the bolt, re-zeroing your rifle gets old quickly.

Don't get me wrong, it's do-able, just gets old. Most people go from a switch barrel setup to dedicated rifles as soon as they have the means to do so. Being able to jump from one gun immediately to another is much easier. No concerns about whether the right bolt is in, is the scope zeroed, do I have the right mags, etc. The gun is setup from the get go, and everything is in working order.
 
It's just not as convenient as you may think. Taking the current barrel off, putting a new barrel on, changing out the bolt, re-zeroing your rifle gets old quickly.

Don't get me wrong, it's do-able, just gets old. Most people go from a switch barrel setup to dedicated rifles as soon as they have the means to do so. Being able to jump from one gun immediately to another is much easier. No concerns about whether the right bolt is in, is the scope zeroed, do I have the right mags, etc. The gun is setup from the get go, and everything is in working order.

I’m guessing you’ve never owned an AI with the quick lock barrel? It’s easy as can be and dead nuts repeatable. I could afford any rifle I want or any combination of rifles, but I wouldn’t trade my PSR for any of them.
 
I’m guessing you’ve never owned an AI with the quick lock barrel? It’s easy as can be and dead nuts repeatable. I could afford any rifle I want or any combination of rifles, but I wouldn’t trade my PSR for any of them.

No interest in owning an AI. Have plenty of friends that own them, have handled and shot most models up to the PSR.

Decent rifles, but I wouldn't trade my rifles for one. I like my fit-for-purpose specific cartridge rifles.
 
It's just not as convenient as you may think. Taking the current barrel off, putting a new barrel on, changing out the bolt, re-zeroing your rifle gets old quickly.
Incredibly quickly!
I basically un retired my savage the next day.
I was to shoot my guns, not play legos with them.
 
I’m guessing you’ve never owned an AI with the quick lock barrel? It’s easy as can be and dead nuts repeatable. I could afford any rifle I want or any combination of rifles, but I wouldn’t trade my PSR for any of them.

OP isn't going to buy an AI, so it is what all us poors have to do with a budget action. You don't need an AI for a quick change barrel, flats on the barrel and an action wrench are as easy as it gets.

Also, changing bolt face AND a barrel is tiring when you are at the range trying to shoot. But, we are talking about a PRS/hunting/ELR rifle. Every time you switch, yeah zero will be really close, but if it is off .1 you have to shoot a group to verify and change if necessary. You might have to slip turrets or deal with offsets in your ballistic software.

Also, I like to shoot my rifles. If my barrel gets hot on my hunting rifle, I want to shoot my PRS rifle while I wait. I can't go changing hot barrels on and off, that is stupid. I wouldn't do that with an AI if I had it and I could snap my fingers and barrels would change. I would still have to verify dope so I know if the miss was me or my zero.

Now, for some people who maybe swap a barrel for training and shoot a whole day with it and swap back the match barrel and zero, it works. But, the case for the switch barrel is MUCH MUCH narrower in practical terms than one would think. If you have specific "seasons" and set your rifle up by season, like hunting season, ELR season, and PRS season, then that might make more sense changing it three times a year. But, don't fool yourself into thinking the switch barrel rifle means you will be shooting different cartridges every time you go out. I did switch my match gun to a hunting barrel and left it for a couple months, but I didn't have matches and once I got my hunting rifle zeroed up, I stopped messing with it till the hunt. That was a specific hunt that called for a shorter barrel inside a blind.

In the end, if you want multiple calibers, start with something like Savage actions and prefit barrels and shoot the dang thing. It is 90% of a custom, IMO. Then, when you can afford it buy a Bighorn and screw the prefit onto that and keep plugging away. You can buy used and sell used. It is what I have done.

My Proof prefit was just as accurate on my Savage as it was on my Nucleus action. The Savage action was not as sweet as my Nucleus under time in PRS, but truthfully, my skills had far more to do with my score than the Savage action. I love my Nucleus, and sold all my other rifles to consolidate to customs. But, if I had to start over again, I wouldn't change a thing. Savage rifles aren't awesome, but they were good to me.
 
Butthurt much? I'm not pissed nor talking shit. Just telling you the truth, sorry that it's not what you want to hear. You're not going to make a 700 LA feed both LA and SA rounds. PERIOD. It's not going to happen.

If you can't afford an MRAD then no, you can't afford to be wasting money on shit that isn't going to work. You're literally talking about spending $4K minimum on an action with a couple bolt and barrel setups that isn't going to work and is going to have shit for resale value when you realize it doesn't work. Go ahead and waste your money though. I couldn't care less.

I'm running a 6.5cm out of a LA.

Seems to feed fine.
 
Cadex has a chasiss system that lets you use SA mags while running a long action, helping to get around the mag issue.

Use a long action if you're only going to shoot factory ammo and need 300 WM, 338 LM or such.
 
Cadex has a chasiss system that lets you use SA mags while running a long action, helping to get around the mag issue.

Use a long action if you're only going to shoot factory ammo and need 300 WM, 338 LM or such.
because there's no reason to reload for a long action???

i don't know of or have heard of anyone using the magazine sleeves with anything but a cadex action (read full cadex build = AI)
 
because there's no reason to reload for a long action???

i don't know of or have heard of anyone using the magazine sleeves with anything but a cadex action (read full cadex build = AI)

Sorry, I meant that if you don't want to reload and want/need to shoot a long action caliber then LA is the way to go. Again, really niche.

And I'll let you know whether it works with a non-Cadex action. I think it should.
 
Sorry, I meant that if you don't want to reload and want/need to shoot a long action caliber then LA is the way to go. Again, really niche.

And I'll let you know whether it works with a non-Cadex action. I think it should.

I think you're misunderstanding those chassis. The Cadex LA chassis that uses SA mags is inlet for a long action action and SA magazines. Didn't know they were still doing it but other companies did it too, it was mainly to adapt the M24's into a chassis system since they need SA mags for the 308.

The Kraken adaptor is only for the Kraken rifle.
 
Tikka action!!! Because regardless of caliber, they are all LA!
Savage Axis action, because regardless of caliber, they are all LA! lol

With the Tikka, which isn't a bad idea, you could have a SA chassis and a LA chassis and that solves the magazine problem. You would need a second bolt if you ran .308 and magnum bolt faces, and based on PRS and ELR you'd need two bolts. Its not the worst solution, but more wonky than going with a SA and swapable bolt faces and run single feed short mag ELR.
 
Savage Axis action, because regardless of caliber, they are all LA! lol

With the Tikka, which isn't a bad idea, you could have a SA chassis and a LA chassis and that solves the magazine problem. You would need a second bolt if you ran .308 and magnum bolt faces, and based on PRS and ELR you'd need two bolts. Its not the worst solution, but more wonky than going with a SA and swapable bolt faces and run single feed short mag ELR.
Yea
Bolts are an issue and Lapua bolt face is basically out of the question.
LRI is supposedly ramping up for tikka parts.
 
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you can shoot a 284 or 280ai or '06 variant in PRS but it wouldn't be fun or an advantage. If you want 15" tall single stack magazine's then go for it. But when you state your objectives. Make sure you know what you're talking about
For Arguments sake the AI 10 round 300wm single stack is 6.5" which is damn close to a Short action magazine with a +2. Not saying its the best case scenario but its doable. I think a 25-06 running the 131 ACE with a conservative powder load or even a 6-284 could do pretty well in a PRS style match. I think 6.5-284 used to be pretty popular back in the day. Again im not trying to win top spot in the AG cup, i dont have the time to commit to getting that good, but conceivably you could run a long action in long range competitions and be competitive.

Also like i mentioned before to @orkan , if you can make a kit for a SA mag to better run BR variants maybe you could make a kit to run a 6.5 Creed in a long action (not saying you should cause probably wont make any money, just make one for me). Again thats just for arguments sake if a guy had only a long action.

 
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Awesome. I dont have a magpul long action standard magazine so i couldnt test it. When i tested the Accurate Metal 300wm magazine it could tell it would need some tweeking. Looks like it runs pretty good with the standard and you ocould probably get away with running the heavier 6.5 bullets with all the extra room. Do the Long action 5 rounders have the tab on the follower that can be cut to make it a 6 rounder? Edit: NM I found on their website that it does.

thanks for the effort btw. good stuff.
 
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I think the switch barrel idea is great, I went wity the origin SA and would again if I was doing a single barreled rifle. The upgrade to the TL3 would have been nice for a switch barrel set up. its a great way to go for us poor's that dont want to build a dedicated hunting rifle that gets shot 50-100 rounds a year or a trainer that costs as much as your main rig.

as others have said, a sort action won't leave anything on the table for real world practical shots. ELR is a different story... plus, what you loose in action length you can add in barrel length! win win.
 
My point was the SST's were designed to run 3300 @ 2.860 with some room to grow COAL as more .25 pills become available. Unlike the std SAUM's that are more mag restricted in a short action with the high BC pills.
There's another thread on here somewhere with a very similar new cartridge .257 Blackjack
My SST is in an ARC Nucleus 1.1 SA. The ARC mags allow 2.955 as you stated.

Pic clipped from Sherman web sight. View attachment 7395594
This is all true, however it may help to define the mission before you choose your tools? If I had only one gun to choose it would be the DPMS AR-10.
Tall Bi-pods to sit and shoot and then lay back down out of sight. Fixed range finder scope with BDC and level. A suppressor to match barrel for tightest groups for heavy sub sonic loads and the same for the long shots out to 700 meters plus. The .308 is also a very common caliber with plenty of power to do the job. The most dangerous shooter is the guy with only one gun that he knows well.
 
I see the value in both, but they both have the same issue....put a 6.5 creed, 6 dasher in a short and they work. Put a long throated WSM in ands now you need 3.1”....you are single shot again!

With the long....300 win mag, 30-06, all good! 300 RUM with 235’s throated right and NG again!

i guess my point is skip the magic!
 
What's the longest you can load a 3.850" AICS magazine?

Looks like 3.580" COAL in a Pmag.

Looks like 3.780" COAL in a AICS 3.850" mag. (MDT says 3.760") so somewhere in there...

300 RUM (Normal OAL 3.600") so you can load 0.16" longer than normal OAL and still mag feed.