Mammoth Sniper Challenge 2020 Discussion

never_summer

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Oct 2, 2007
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So for everyone that competed, what caliber did your secondary shoot and would you roll with it again next year?
We are planning on running a bolt gun instead of gasser but trying to decide on .308 or .223
 
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Austinjunks

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So for everyone that competed, what caliber did your secondary shoot and would you roll with it again next year?
We are planning on running a bolt gun instead of gasser but trying to decide on .308 or .223
I ran my tiny 14 inch gasser and only felt under gunned on a few stages. That said, I will be training on a 308 bolt gun this year. I'm more conformable on a gasser but I need to expand my skill set.
 

never_summer

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Oct 2, 2007
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I ran my tiny 14 inch gasser and only felt under gunned on a few stages. That said, I will be training on a 308 bolt gun this year. I'm more conformable on a gasser but I need to expand my skill set.
Ours was a 16” gassed running 75gr bthp at 2730 FPS, not bad but not great. The first stage we shot was at range 4 with that 900yd secondary plate and blind one over the berm at 682 yds. We had issue with trace on that .223 the whole comp, we are pretty green thou. We were thinking of running a .308 to help with signature on hits also. If we do run a .223 I’m gonna try to get it moving 75-80gr at 3,000+
 

jeffbtripp

aim small miss small
Hessian
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Mar 4, 2018
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Blounts Creek nc
we ran a 24" RRA upper with the 73 eldm super performance and they run 2920 in that gun we had impacts out to the 900 with no problem we got luck with trace on that stage and could see it very good. plan to run the same gun next year possibly a 20-22 inch gun. weight was a little heavy. @ 12.4 lbs
 

jeffbtripp

aim small miss small
Hessian
Minuteman
Mar 4, 2018
80
38
Blounts Creek nc
For me this match was really a life changing experience and i know some will say its just another match but for me it was more that that. I started training for this back in june july and thought i had my shit together. Well after 5 mins riding down to range 6 i knew i was going to be in for a rude awakening with all those hills. I made it through day one and came up short on the second ruck on day two due to a knee injury. (luckily nothing is torn but was told i had "Pes Anserine Bursitis" and while nothing permanent it sucks ass let me tell you) I have never felt like i let someone down so much in my life but that failure has motivated me to train even harder for next year. i started at 5'6 290 in july and on friday i was at 265 when i got home i was 257. My new goal is 190 for mammoth 21 and to get down to a 13min mile. I heard people talk about weighing oz's and let me tell you friday i started with a 41.80 pack on sat morning i was a 34.7 you learn real fast that extra battery and extra pen the little bag holding all of it adds up. For me training in eastern nc its very flat I would tell anyone thinking about doing it next year to start now and you better be able to run a 13min mile on flat ground because those hills are no joke and don't run on nice clean trails they had us on the curb of the roads most was flat a lot was uneven.

As for the shooting part that was the easy part you really learn how to shoot without all the extra crap. we had guys carry tripods all weekend to only get to use them really only once. My teammate and I while we had never shot a team match before had shot matches together we made great plans and executed them very well. practice with your gear learn what you can and can't do with it. I shot my 6 dasher with a 5-25 atacr milc at 13.8 lbs I will most likely have a carbon barrel made for it just for matches like this. my partner shot one of my Rock river 223 with a 24" upper and a 4-16 atacr milc. if you don't have good range finders you need some and as we found out you need to make sure you know how to use each other's gear. another great tool i had was my garmin watch being able to track time was helpful you could see just how much walking up those hill slowed you down and you could make adjustments.

take aways
test gear a lot in all conditions, test your pack wear it around the yard the house everywhere if it is not comfortable sell it trade it try another one. don't be afraid to make changes and if you ask your do i need this item nope you don't. i am already looking at new packs different rangefinders

Lastly the people you meet is awesome we met a lot of great people in the squad and the ro's and our squad boss was awesome.

for those thinking about this i can say its an experience ill never forget and look forward to making the challenge next year.
 

NGCSUGrad09

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Jun 6, 2007
476
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We ran a .223 bolt gun for the secondary rifle. Aside from the stage with the red target you weren't supposed to shoot, everything else had benefit for the tighter accuracy of the bolt gun. Our secondary rifle was sending 75gr ELD-s at 3060fps. There wasn't a time we wished for a .308 as the .223 is a pussy cat to shoot.

My rifle was a nearly identical rifle in 6mm CM, sending 110gr A-Tips at 2985fps.
 

flatlander

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Jun 11, 2003
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My teammate and I ran Mystery Ranch Pintler packs with a Rifle scabbard I designed and had sewn together that would allow the rifles to ride vertical between the pack and the frame. They performed flawlessly.
As for rifles I ran an MPA in 6.5 w Vortex Razor and my teammate ran his 18" OBR.

Mystery Ranch set up.JPG

As for boots I took the lead from a friend that had gone through SF selection last spring and raved about the Garmont t8 nfs coyote. After training in them and running Mammoth I can attest that they are an awesome boot. I had one blister form on my inside heel the afternoon of day 2 from walking off camber on the side of the road. My teammate wore a pair of goretex and after day 1 blistered his feet pretty good. Goretex not only keeps water out but keeps it in as well.

As for training I do Obstacle course racing and my partner is a full time SWAT cop so our ruck times were good.
 

never_summer

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Oct 2, 2007
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San Antonio, Texas
That’s a good point on shoes, think people get too caught up on waterproof shoes for something like this. If it was gonna rain on us like it was suppose to, your feet were gonna get wet! Both in our team used Solomon ultra 3 low shoes. I got a hot spot behind one of my big toes and my partner went unscathed. A mid high boot/shoe might have helped as my ankles got fatigued doing the big rucks off camber.
@flatlander That looks like a secure way to carry the rifle, got anymore pics of how you did it? I was dead set on carrying mine offset on the side until my neighbor convinced me the day before the match to throw it on the lid balanced. I may do some trial and error to get it mounted like that
 
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Stag556

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Feb 10, 2017
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I ran a Tactical Tailor Malice pack. Worked very well and I carried the rifle across the top, put the top flap over the rifle and cinched down to secure it.
 
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Taube94

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Jan 17, 2020
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I was planning on running an AR10 .308 and wasnt sure of the distances on the secondary targets
 
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Austinjunks

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What do most teams run on the secondary rifle? Bolt or AR? 223 or 308?
2020 was my first year shooting secondary position, 2019 I shot primary and our secondary ran a 223 gasser. This year I ran a shorter barreled (14 inch) 223 gas gun, I have always been a gas gun guy. 2021 I will be running a 308 bolt gun and training up on bolt guns all year.
 

Stag556

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We ran a 223 bolt gun with 24” barrel for secondary. Little more accuracy over a gas gun and a lot lighter on ammo weight. Worked out well.
 

never_summer

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Oct 2, 2007
438
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San Antonio, Texas
Here's my gear load out from the match this year. I ran primary with a 6mm CM, secondary shot a .223.

the aluminum 9mm was genius, good call on that. I was behind y’all on the last ruck ?, didn’t know who you were but was surprised when the standings were called. Congrats and good job on the shooting
 
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TACC

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Jan 10, 2019
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For me this match was really a life changing experience and i know some will say its just another match but for me it was more that that. I started training for this back in june july and thought i had my shit together. Well after 5 mins riding down to range 6 i knew i was going to be in for a rude awakening with all those hills. I made it through day one and came up short on the second ruck on day two due to a knee injury. (luckily nothing is torn but was told i had "Pes Anserine Bursitis" and while nothing permanent it sucks ass let me tell you) I have never felt like i let someone down so much in my life but that failure has motivated me to train even harder for next year. i started at 5'6 290 in july and on friday i was at 265 when i got home i was 257. My new goal is 190 for mammoth 21 and to get down to a 13min mile. I heard people talk about weighing oz's and let me tell you friday i started with a 41.80 pack on sat morning i was a 34.7 you learn real fast that extra battery and extra pen the little bag holding all of it adds up. For me training in eastern nc its very flat I would tell anyone thinking about doing it next year to start now and you better be able to run a 13min mile on flat ground because those hills are no joke and don't run on nice clean trails they had us on the curb of the roads most was flat a lot was uneven.

As for the shooting part that was the easy part you really learn how to shoot without all the extra crap. we had guys carry tripods all weekend to only get to use them really only once. My teammate and I while we had never shot a team match before had shot matches together we made great plans and executed them very well. practice with your gear learn what you can and can't do with it. I shot my 6 dasher with a 5-25 atacr milc at 13.8 lbs I will most likely have a carbon barrel made for it just for matches like this. my partner shot one of my Rock river 223 with a 24" upper and a 4-16 atacr milc. if you don't have good range finders you need some and as we found out you need to make sure you know how to use each other's gear. another great tool i had was my garmin watch being able to track time was helpful you could see just how much walking up those hill slowed you down and you could make adjustments.

take aways
test gear a lot in all conditions, test your pack wear it around the yard the house everywhere if it is not comfortable sell it trade it try another one. don't be afraid to make changes and if you ask your do i need this item nope you don't. i am already looking at new packs different rangefinders

Lastly the people you meet is awesome we met a lot of great people in the squad and the ro's and our squad boss was awesome.

for those thinking about this i can say its an experience ill never forget and look forward to making the challenge next year.
What rangefinder did you use that you are looking to replace and why?
 

jeffbtripp

aim small miss small
Hessian
Minuteman
Mar 4, 2018
80
38
Blounts Creek nc
What rangefinder did you use that you are looking to replace and why?
i took the Sig kilo3000 binos and at 2.5 lbs they stayed in the room day 2 just too heavy. i had my kilo 2200 as a backup pair light and all is really needed. you need something that is accurate and can punch through light grass. most importantly make use you know how to use yours and your partners.
 
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Leatherlunger

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Maybe im not looking in the right place, but what appears to be the main website says the competition is invite only? What are the qualifications if so?
 
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Stag556

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Maybe im not looking in the right place, but what appears to be the main website says the competition is invite only? What are the qualifications if so?
It’s not invite only, not sure why it would say that. Check their Facebook page for most up to date info. That’s where they seem to post the most.
 
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jeffbtripp

aim small miss small
Hessian
Minuteman
Mar 4, 2018
80
38
Blounts Creek nc
Maybe im not looking in the right place, but what appears to be the main website says the competition is invite only? What are the qualifications if so?
I think what your seeing is after it fill when spots came open the we’re by invite or Wait listers. I think it fill in just a few days

but some 20 teams didn’t make it
 

swhiteh3

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Aug 19, 2013
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North of Charlotte, NC
Not everyone moves at the same pace. The only time there was a large group was the last ruck. Tracking is good to make sure you'll be on time and aren't falling behind. Some of the longer rucks saw our squad strung out to where we couldn't see each other. We all made the time but when you're tired, moving across terrain and not knowing what's ahead with bad weather I'll take the tracking as insurance.
Yes, getting regular updates on your progress is CRITICAL to making sure you're good on time. Of course, for some super-quick guys they don't have to worry about it, but if you're anywhere near time hack you want to stay updated. Build a cushion early, then monitor it. Personally, I've always used the RUNKEEPER app on my phone. I have my phone mounted up on my pack strap, close to my face. It gives an audible update on time, pace, distance, etc every five minutes, so you don't keep looking down, or making the Garmin the fresh paint that never dries (ie you look at it TOO often). Of course, that means keeping a battery charger with you.
 
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never_summer

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Oct 2, 2007
438
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San Antonio, Texas
Yeah i liked how yours sounded off pace and distance every 5 minutes without having to look at it. I was using the underarmour app and looking at my phone wayyy to much, it would only sound off every mile the way i had it setup.
 

swhiteh3

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Aug 19, 2013
191
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North of Charlotte, NC
Yeah i liked how yours sounded off pace and distance every 5 minutes without having to look at it. I was using the underarmour app and looking at my phone wayyy to much, it would only sound off every mile the way i had it setup.
Link to that app is at runkeeper.com. Every time I try to paste in the link, it brings in what looks like an advertisement.

I also find it's a great motivator. Every five minutes, you click off about 0.33 to 0.40 miles, and it's great to hear that distance clicking off.
 
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Stag556

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Feb 10, 2017
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Haha. I was definitely doing the paint dry thing with my Apple Watch. It worked very well and kept an accurate pace/distance but I can’t say it wasn’t exhausting always looking down at it.
 

bonesaw00001

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Sep 15, 2019
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QQ - how do most folks carry their ammo for this? Plastic box? Individual factory boxes? Wasn't sure if there was a gold standard way...
 

swhiteh3

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Aug 19, 2013
191
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North of Charlotte, NC
QQ - how do most folks carry their ammo for this? Plastic box? Individual factory boxes? Wasn't sure if there was a gold standard way...
I'm sure everyone has their own way, but I carry everything I can in magazines, and the rest in factory boxes. I use factory boxes because they are (1) light, (2) protective, and (3) I don't mind dumping them as the match goes on to minimize space / weight. Just my $0.02
 

ballison

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Mar 31, 2013
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QQ - how do most folks carry their ammo for this? Plastic box? Individual factory boxes? Wasn't sure if there was a gold standard way...
We carried our rifle and pistol ammo in plastic bags zip-lock. Saves a lot on space, a little on ammo, and keeps them dry if you get any rain.
 

bonesaw00001

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Sep 15, 2019
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Do most folks position mags/sidearm on a harness/battle belt, etc? Drop leg holster and mags in their pack?
 

Austinjunks

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Feb 2, 2019
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I'm sure everyone has their own way, but I carry everything I can in magazines, and the rest in factory boxes. I use factory boxes because they are (1) light, (2) protective, and (3) I don't mind dumping them as the match goes on to minimize space / weight. Just my $0.02
2020 CG requested we download all mags for each movement. It wasn't heavily enforced but was mentioned before each stage.
 

never_summer

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Oct 2, 2007
438
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San Antonio, Texas
There’s no need for quick deployment at the stage, they will give you time to retrieve gear and do a stage break down and depending on what position you shoot there is more time to prepare/pack. Last year because of base rules we were not allowed to transition between stage locations with loaded magazines. So you were stripping them down and loading up at each stage. Austin already beat me to it 👆
Make sure the way your holster and equipment sits you won’t lose your sidearm inadvertently from doing stuff like taking your pack off or transitioning positions during a stage. If that happens while the firearm is loaded and not even a round in the chamber it will still earn you a match dq.
 

bonesaw00001

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Sep 15, 2019
118
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There’s no need for quick deployment at the stage, they will give you time to retrieve gear and do a stage break down and depending on what position you shoot there is more time to prepare/pack. Last year because of base rules we were not allowed to transition between stage locations with loaded magazines. So you were stripping them down and loading up at each stage. Austin already beat me to it 👆
Make sure the way your holster and equipment sits you won’t lose your sidearm inadvertently from doing stuff like taking your pack off or transitioning positions during a stage. If that happens while the firearm is loaded and not even a round in the chamber it will still earn you a match dq.
I've got a paddle-style retention holster and mag carrier - would it make sense to remove them while transitioning but simply load up and put them on my belt once I reach a stage? Trying to see if it makes more sense to switch to a dropleg retention holster..
 

Austinjunks

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Feb 2, 2019
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I've got a paddle-style retention holster and mag carrier - would it make sense to remove them while transitioning but simply load up and put them on my belt once I reach a stage? Trying to see if it makes more sense to switch to a dropleg retention holster..
I'm running a sub belt with inner Velcro belt. Just leave everything on the belt and strap it on when I need to.
 
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never_summer

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Oct 2, 2007
438
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San Antonio, Texas
I used a bravo concealment owb because I like how it tucks close to the body and I didn’t have to worry about ripping my sidearm out of the holster when taking my pack off. At every stage you have to start and move with all your gear, however you want to do that. If there is pistol involved in a stage it’s probably gonna be the first thing to shoot before rifle, and then you secure it in a bucket before continuing.
 

teddy12b

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Dec 22, 2008
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Regarding ammo transport, at 2020 I saw everything from ziplocks, factory boxes, and coletac ammo novel types of ammo carriers. Personally, I kept factory ammo boxes for rifle and tossed the trash as the event went on. For my pistol ammo I just threw it all in a ziplock.

For a holster, I used a DSG kydex with a tek-lok mounting system. You're not going to be rucking with the holster on your hip or on your pack, it'll be in your pack so something that's quick and easy to put on or take off a belt is important. Something that doesn't take up a ton of space inside the pack is also important since that's where it'll be 99% of the time.