Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

[Veer_G]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ultimately it's just another distraction</div></div>

That's it, that's what its all about. It's (the staggered SS) a distraction to what the Marines Stand for.

Yes I know I'm not a marine, but don't tell me I don't understand, I'm a US Paratrooper, we play second fiddle to no one.

<span style="font-weight: bold">I want our image to be that of those who stood tall at Bastonge, not some image that offends but that defends.</span></div></div>

One thing to add:

Unfortunately, kids are growing up these days with very little grasp of history.

Read up about the atrocities committed by an SS <span style="text-decoration: underline">combat unit</span>: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malmedy_massacre

 

[perkantino]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

The marines are heroes, no doubt, but they use equipment funded by tax payers. Without that, no nice rifles with Schmidts to shoot to exemplify that badassness, and come on here to brag about it.
I don't think you can throw knives or deliver throat rips with your bare hands, out to 800 meters.
So perhaps they should be a little more considerate of those tax payers when some of them are offended by this. That includes the elite media. They pay taxes too! With the money they make, more taxes in value than you. That also includes the Jewish businessman whose grandfather escaped the atrocities inflicted during the second world war, and who is working his behind off and paying taxes, so snipers can be trained and equipped. That's why some here are calling this insensitive.
Not treasonous, but insensitive. Otherwise as a private citizen you can smash SS everywhere you like. No one cares about you. This is not BlackWater! This is the USMC!

 

[perkantino]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CitizenArrest</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People complain that the brass is showing cowardice for not standing up for what they really believe. But some people here too are as much cowards if not more. If you secretly admire the SS, say so! Don't hide behind ignorance or innocence, or great rhetoric for that matter. That's cowardly too!
There is such a thing as the first amendment in this country, in fact some of you fought for your own first amendment. So use it!
Be brave.
If you secretly admire the Nazis, say so! and let's call it a day. It's not math! It's much simpler.
</div></div>

Actually you are dead wrong. There is no place in the Corps for that shit. </div></div>

I am not talking about the Marines, I am talking about some people here. They should stop hiding behind innocence, and tell us if they secretly admire the SS. It's cowardly to hide behind false pretenses, innocence, and bravado. There is freedom of speech in this country, they can tell us.

 

[Accusource8541]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Well pardon the insensitivity but it all seems kinda ridiculous to me. The Marines that I served with regarded the symbol as meaning Scout Sniper with no attachments to Nazis or anything else. For those in the media or anywhere else who want to make it something else, I quote from my previous post on the subject. We don't really give a shit what you think. I agree that might. be insensitive to some, but please reread the previous statement. It is not meant to be racist or insensitive, it is no "official" symbol for the Marine Corps, it is just a little symbol meaning Scout Sniper to us. It is what it is. Nothing more.

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Knowing what our military, esp. the Marines, does behind the scenes and carry into their duties is not for me, or anyone else to question. The associations they may have with other, more offensive cultures or groups is a non-issue. There are a lot of jobs in this world people do, and no one knows why, but those that don't do that job will question it. We know the Marines are not leading a charge of facism, racism, or trying to dominate the world. Its ignorant to think that, and I will not imply it because of a symbol.

Veer, I see you find it offensive. Get some thicker skin. The world is way more offensive than this. They werent required to do that job, they didn't get forced or drafted, they VOLUNTEERED for it. For what they go through, what they do and stand for, they can fly whatever flag they want as long as its UNDER the US flag.

 

[Graham]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertrat1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The world is way more offensive than this. They werent required to do that job, they didn't get forced or drafted, they VOLUNTEERED for it. For what they go through, what they do and stand for, they can fly whatever flag they want as long as its UNDER the US flag.</div></div>This argument makes no sense. The fact that the world is an offensive place is not a reason for our armed forces to be offensive to others. What the Marine Corps publicly stands for <span style="text-decoration: underline">is</span> the issue here. The fact that these Marines were not forced to serve is one reason why the SS symbol, like the real one worn by WWII vets stateside as a protest in the 40's, is not appropriate (as Nazi symbolism). Is it OK, then, to fly a Nazi flag under the US flag? What about an Aryan Nations flag? Is doing that acceptable simply because they volunteered and experienced what we now in the western world call 'combat'?

 

[Blackhawk41]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">\]This argument makes no sense. The fact that the world is an offensive place is not a reason for our armed forces to be offensive to others. </div></div>

I hate to say it but you can trip over yourself all day trying not to be offensive to anyone. Hell anyone with a rocker or brass on their collar gets bent out of shape if you are wearing white socks because its against uniform regulations. Marines aren't allowed to wear shemaghs they biy from local vendors on bases due to the corps worrying about cultural sensitivity.

As a scout sniper who is a devout christian bolts mean exactly that scout sniper. You can even disect it even further and look at what the rune ACTUALLY means sun or victory. The english letter S is from that same nordic rune. Ever think that maybe its straight lined cus its easier to carve straight lines in stone then curves.

As far as veer looking for someone to admit the admire the Schutzstaffel sure as military tacticians and as good warriors I will place them in the same class of admiration I share for the ancient greeks, spartans, huns, khans, babylonians, trojan, romans, japanese, native americans, russians, french, british and many others who have had historically strong military's.

My admiration for these groups deemed evil or good by collective society is aimed more at the men themselves tactics an tenacity not their actions or beliefs but the fact that they believed in something and fought for it good or bad at the end of the day if you don't believe in something why bother living.

I fail to see any difference between using lightening bolts or a spartan shield for a symbol. Don't think the spartans were the heroes hollywood makes them out to be. Alexander the great invaded india to seek the ends of the world and the great outer sea. Nobody pays that any mind remember history is written by the winners.

I firmly believe mr. weinstein continues to pursue this to get some attention to sell books and get money donated to his website. All he is doing is stoking the fires and empowering the symbol as a hateful symbol instead of what it is used as by the scout snipers nothing more then an acronym in white block lettering.

This picture is a far cry from what this country should actually be concerned about instead we should focus on our borders, a president who is up for election that leans towards very socialized structures of government that is thinking about how it will MAKE its citizens pay for healthcare that way they can tell you even more how to live your life.

We have the Iranians messing around with nukes and their leaders saying the holocaust never happened. And people are getting upset about white lightening bolt letters... idiocy at its finest.

I won't ever apologize for the use of scout sniper bolts . I would rather be vilified and hung then for american citizens to lose their rights.

And honestly lets be real these bolts are less offensive then the westboro baptist holding signs that say thank god for IED's or god hates fags at funerals. All of which one can say is exercising freedom of speech.

In the end if you have a severe problem with the scout sniper bolts as they are accepted as now in the corps may you gouge out your own eyes in a boiling rage.

 

[Seth8541]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

This is RIDCULOUS!!!

The issue we have here is some believe that their opinions are more important than the others. If you dont like the symbol, thats fine. I understand why, but I see it differently and I explained why. That should be good enough for you. But its not, you feel that because that symbol offends you that I am now required to appease your sensitivity and stop using it. That is where this argument is right now.

Lets show some examples:

The cross or the Star of David may be offensive to Muslims...........should we appease them?

The Confederate Flag may offend certain individuals.........should we appease them?

Viking symbolism if used back in the day may have offended the individuals who were subjected to thier raids...............should we appease them as well?

The word "God" apparently offended certain individuals so we no longer say the "Pledge of Allegence"

Apparently the 10 Commandments offended certain individuals so we appeased them and took it out of the Supreme Court Lobby.

Japanese symbolism definately meant something different to my Grandfather who was one of the Marines to walk back down off of Mount Surabachi, maybe we should outlaw any reference to the Japanese to appease the sensativity to the matter.

To early American settlers, Indians were the bad guys, maybe we should outlaw any Indian references made so that their offspring may not be offended.

To alot of Native Amereicans, the American flag symbolizes the people who infected them with countless diseases, introduced alcohol to them, lied to them, stole thier land, and kicked them into all the wastelands that we didnt want. Maybe we should outlaw the American Flag so as not to offend.

The offspring of Union soilders who we wounded or killed may be sensative to references made to the Confederacy. Lets outlaw that so as not to offend.

The offspring of Confederate soilders who were wounded or killed by Union soilders may take offence to references to the Union. Maybe we should outlaw and symbolism of the Union.

Maybe we should round up anyone of North Vietnamese decent and make sure we put a stop to any reference by them of thier hertitage to make sure they dont possibly offend some of our service members who were affected by the Vietnam war.

A Peace symbol may possibly offend a Vietnam Vet who when returned from the war was spit upon by a hippie. Lets outlaw it use.

Jane Fonda would be better of dead, and hanging from a tree if some of our Vietnam Veterans had their way. Should we appease them? Do you watch her movies? Should we keep her from making movies?

Get my point yet? You have stated your opinion on the symbols the SS used and what it is tied to. You have also heard why Marine Scout Snipers use it and what it means to them.

LET IT GO!!ITS NOT GOING TO CHANGE!GET USED TO KNOWING THAT OUT MARINE CORPS SCOUT SNIPERS THAT ARE DEFENDING THIS COUNTRY WILL CONTINUE TO USE THE "SS" BOLTS TO SYMBOLIZE THEM A SCOUT SNIPERS. DEAL WITH IT.IF THAT MEANS YOU WILL NOT THANK THEM OR SHAKE THIER HANDS WHEN THEY COME HOME,THEN SO BE IT.WE DONT CARE!!!

I do not under any circumstances believe in what the NAZI's stood for. I am NOT a racist. My wife is Mexican Filipino as well as both of my daughters. MY Filipino father in law is a Marine Vietnam Vet and when he saw my SS Bolts he new exactly what they meant to me. So, that being said, to whoever states that our generation has no info on history or doesnt care, your dead wrong! The generation before you was saying the same freaking thing about YOUR generation. These SS Bolts being used now were being used during the Vietnam era generation as well.

VeerG,

I take it that you are Jewish, if Im wrong I apologize. I feel for what your fellow Jews and Istraelites have been through for 1000's of years. I would stand and defend your rights as well as any other who were being oppressed. I do not condone under ANY circumstances what was done to your people by the NAZI's and would put a bullet in any one of them in a heart beat, while wearing my SS Bolt on my chest PROUDLY!! It has a different meaning to me. I dont care if you are or not, but maybe YOU should be sensative the the Marine Scout Snipers who wear the SS Bolts with pride as a symbol of thier accomplishment.

Your people are not the only peole who have endured oppression on a mass scale. You are but 1 of the many. The millions killed in Africa have FAR outweighed the Jews lossed during the Holocaust. Its over now, you are among friends (I mean that with all seriousness).

As I recall when the Israelites entered the Promised land of Canan, they were told by God to destroy EVERYTHING, and to leave nothing. That meant Men, Women, Children, Babies, Sheep, Goats, Cattle, Chickens, Homes, etc, etc,etc. Im sure thier are some decendants here of the Cananites. Maybe we should outlaw the use of the Star of David or the Cross for fear of offending someone? Would you do it?

Marines use symbols of past warriors, that does not mean that I condone thier actions or attrocities. Regardless what you think, the SS were no joke, and if nothing else had great taste in symbols. They were a force to be reconed with. Vikings were some blood thirsty battle hardened warriors who took no prisoners. They had symbols that they used to identifly them selves. Just because I have a Viking tattoo on me does not mean that I believe in thier god, or that Im going to continue on in thier mission of raiding and plundering western European villages. It is a symbol of a Warrior. The Celtic Cross is used widely today by individuals in tattoos. It does not mean that the majority of those peole believe the in the same ideals, it basically just looks "Bad Ass". That is why the SS Bolts are used today by our Marine Corps Scout Snipers. I personally could not think of a cooler way to write 2 SS's. Like I said before, the Nazis soilders was an outstanding fighting force, and they did had pretty good taste in symbols, and uniforms. Thier goal was not however. Unlike maybe you, I can still, even though they are my enemy, acknowledge the fact that they were indeed warriors. The Nazi's, Japanese, North Vietnamese, Indians, Vikings, Spartans, Romans, Israelites, Greeks, were all outstanding fighters and warriors to say the least. However misguided thier mission may have been.

As far as the civilian "tax payers" having some kind of right by the military to be appeased.....thats ridiculous!!

Just because "Staples" provides a product for a price to buisinesses around the world does not mean that those companies have any obligation to appease "Staples" or include them in ANY of thier buisiness transactions.

You pay for a service. That service is given to you in FULL. Or maybe the next time General Patreas has a difficult decision to make, he should give you, the taxpayer a call and ask what your opinion on the matter is.

In order to make decisions in the "Union" you have to be a "Dues Paying Union Member". You are not though. You pay your dues as do we, but, you are NOT a member of our military so you have NO say so in our tactics, uniforms, symbols, ammo, weapons, traditions, rites of passage, etc etc. It is not your expertise. As we have all seen in this post, you DO NOT need or should NOT WANT to be involved in our issues. Chances are, you will not like what you see. Just be satisfied with the outcome.

When the media, actors/actresses, politicians, and civilians get involved, the only peole who suffer are those of us on the ground. And to say that the media doesnt have a negative affect on the service members safety, and the outcome of the mission, your IGNORANCE blows me away!! How would the Vietnam Veterans returning from that war have been treated if the media had not been involved? Id venture to say....................differently?

A group of Marines are ambushed by Al-Queda from a Mosque. Geneva Convention says you do not fire on a medical or religeous site. (PSSSSSSSST......the bad guys know that). When the Marines return fire into that Mosque, the "media" is ready and waiting. Do they tell the whole story? No, the have political backed alterior motives. So, all YOU see or hear about is a bunch of SS Bolt wearing, blood thirsty, animals decimating a religous establishment.

The Media, Politicians, Civilians, and arm chair quarter backs need to stay out of the decision making department when it involves troops on the ground. YOU DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD. If you dont believe me....ask a service member.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Blackhawk41 said it all, and my feelings are the same.

 

[ancientmariner]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

They embarassed themselves. They embarassed the USMC uniform. Personally I feel sorry for them. What would these guys say to World War II veterans who actually fought SS?

I do not know if you recall what happened to Bundeswehr soldiers serving in Afghanistan who painted on their trucks an Afrikakorps symbol (coconut palm)?

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

The internet has given those who thrive on controversy an easy way to stir the pot without having to make their arguement face to face. Basically a cowards way to piss off those who disagree with them and be the center of attention. They aren't the center of attention in their daily life so use the net to make them feel relevant and important.

Used to be that the majority ruled, now with the internet and our current politically correct atmosphere the minority have an easier way of swaying the opinion in their favor by playing the racist card or such. The only time the past is important to them is if they can use it to to their advantage at present or in the future.

The internet is an easy and effective tool for the attention whores!

If it weren't for the US military all of Europe would be speaking the same language now. How quickly they forget how many of our men and my family fought and some died to keep that from happening!

Seth8541 I for one appreciate and am humbled by what you and your fellow Marines and all other US Servicemen have done for our country and send my apologies to you all for those who don't!

Respectfully,
Dennis

 

[Slapchop]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

We've become a nation of pussies and faggots!

God help us all...

Semper Fi and hopefully none of these Marines will be adversely affected by this.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We've become a nation of pussies and faggots!

God help us all...

Semper Fi and hopefully none of these Marines will be adversely affected by this.

</div></div>

Holy fuck I agree with Slapchop I know where in trouble now

 

[7mmRM]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We've become a nation of pussies and faggots!

God help us all...

Semper Fi and hopefully none of these Marines will be adversely affected by this.

</div></div>

Well said....

 

[7mmRM]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ancient Mariner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They embarassed themselves. They embarassed the USMC uniform.</div></div>

They most certainly did not.

 

[Slapchop]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ancient Mariner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They embarassed themselves. They embarassed the USMC uniform.</div></div>

I wore their uniform, MY uniform. I am NOT embarrassed by them or for them. I am proud of them, proud of what they've done and proud of what they've sacrificed, for US.

God bless them.

 

[Graham]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We've become a nation of pussies and faggots!</div></div>Cop out.

The Italians have an an expression for a 'momma's boy': Una Mammone. It fits. But if we are going to label people as 'pussies' and 'faggots' then I propose that we also use an opposite expression - un Papone: One who spends his life trying in vain to be as much of an ignorant uncompromising bully as his father was.

I'm not arguing that we should try to appease everbody. I am saying that there is a difference between complaining about the job and leading on the job; true strength and simple bravado; competence and bragging. Today there is no beach to be stormed: They are not so overwhelmed with work that we can't ask our soldiers and Marines to do their jobs with their brains engaged.

We ask this of them because we respect them. It's when we stop respecting them that we begin to make-up excuses and yell 'FTW' when they get criticized by others.

 

[valise]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We've become a nation of pussies and faggots!
</div></div>

I thought everybody liked pussy and faggots aren't competition for it. ;-)

Seriously. The media isn't to blame on this, someone sounded a horn. The initial articles - balanced reporting - represented that some were upset by symbolism, included were comments that there was a tradition within the 'unit' of understanding that SS was Sniper Scout.

In the end this thread will last longer, give more inches and extreme suggestions than the 'media' cycle will have committed on the subject.

 

[Seth8541]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The internet has given those who thrive on controversy an easy way to stir the pot without having to make their arguement face to face. Basically a cowards way to piss off those who disagree with them and be the center of attention. They aren't the center of attention in their daily life so use the net to make them feel relevant and important.

Used to be that the majority ruled, now with the internet and our current politically correct atmosphere the minority have an easier way of swaying the opinion in their favor by playing the racist card or such. The only time the past is important to them is if they can use it to to their advantage at present or in the future.

The internet is an easy and effective tool for the attention whores!

If it weren't for the US military all of Europe would be speaking the same language now. How quickly they forget how many of our men and my family fought and some died to keep that from happening!

Seth8541 I for one appreciate a am humbled by what you and your fellow Marines and all other US Servicemen have done for our country and send my apologies to you all for those who don't!

Respectfully,
Dennis </div></div>

No apologies needed Dennis, but thank you.

Semper Fi,
Seth

 

[ubet]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We've become a nation of pussies and faggots!

God help us all...

Semper Fi and hopefully none of these Marines will be adversely affected by this.

</div></div>


Holy fuck I agree with Slapchop I know where in trouble now

</div></div>

Ill second that!

 

[XTR]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

They were dumbasses for posting the picture online or posing for someone to take it. Try to argue anything different and you may as well argue that the sun comes up in the west.



Guys have taken pictures of crap since there have been cameras in the field, but unfortunately the internet has allowed those with poor judgement and lack of common sense to show them to the world. I was too young for 'Nam, but I was old enough to be hanging out with guys who were there, I've seen some pics that friends brought back, some of them definitely don't need to be on Facebook, and 30 yrs ago the only way you saw them was late one night drunk/high when someone pulled out a box or an album.

Hey, the Nazi's and the USMC have always had the best looking uniforms ever. The Nazi's put effort into their symbolism so it has a look that works. There was a reason Hitler had Riefenstahl on payroll. Be that as it may, the SS bolts, a swastika, or the Confederate battle flag, take you picture with any of them and post it on line and you are going to get the same response from 75% of the population. Want to try to argue that the battle flag is part of our Southern heritage? That's a non starter, it has been used and by too many groups to mean exactly what you or I would argue it doesn't, and the same with the Nazi symbols. It doesn't matter what or why you think you did it. If you know that then by posting it you are accepting that most of the people who view it are going to associate you with the prevailing negative connotation, and to do so while in the military or any other organization is to invite a shitstorm just like this.

Say what you want, but this is at SecDefs desk now. They did something stupid and it is going to hurt more than just them.





As for the press and our military, that oath we all took when we went in, it included the whole Constitution and Bill of Rights, not just the convenient parts. I rode subs in the 80s, hell yes there are things the military does that should not see the light of day, but this is a case of guys showing their ass and publicizing it themselves.

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertrat1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The world is way more offensive than this. They werent required to do that job, they didn't get forced or drafted, they VOLUNTEERED for it. For what they go through, what they do and stand for, they can fly whatever flag they want as long as its UNDER the US flag.</div></div>This argument makes no sense. The fact that the world is an offensive place is not a reason for our armed forces to be offensive to others. What the Marine Corps publicly stands for <span style="text-decoration: underline">is</span> the issue here. The fact that these Marines were not forced to serve is one reason why the SS symbol, like the real one worn by WWII vets stateside as a protest in the 40's, is not appropriate (as Nazi symbolism). Is it OK, then, to fly a Nazi flag under the US flag? What about an Aryan Nations flag? Is doing that acceptable simply because they volunteered and experienced what we now in the western world call 'combat'?</div></div>

Look at it from this perspective. It is their way/tradition/symbol or whatever you want to use to describe it. It obviously doesnt carry the meaning it once held. Had the media not gone and made a sideshow of our soldiers, yet again, would you have a diffrent outlook on these guys? But because the news has to put it up, that means someone has to be offended and look way too deep into what it really is. Its their symbol, they hijacked it, I hope that racist neo-Nazi pond scumb sees this and feels the slightest bit of un-easy to know that yet another symbol of theirs has fallen by the wayside and picked up by more redeeming and respected members of this country.

 

[Garvey]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

I've read this whole tread. While I can see the point that the symbol is similar to the Nazi party, I must side on the fact that this has been the symbol of our Marine Scout Snipers for a very long time. The Nazis were defeated, our Marines can use what ever symbol they want even if it is similar to the Nazi party. If they were playing capture the flag, well then the US ended up with all the enemy's flags and we'll do what ever the hell we want with them even repurpose some and make them into something good.

I'm not a Marine, I'm a Firefigter/ Paramedic not even close to a Scout Sniper. I can, however, relate to service men that put themselves in harm's way because they signed up for it and that's their job. The side effect of doing a job, with a group of men (some teenagers, some a generation older) that can make an individual concerned for his own life is that each man begins to worry more about the man next to him than himself when the shit is hitting the fan. At night when I'm going to bed, with about 8 more hours of a shift left to go I say my prayers for my family while I'm away from them, and for the families of the men I'm stationed with. The guys at my station are all husbands and fathers.

Another side effect is that, in down time, we are constantly busting each other's balls. But only we can do it to each other, an outsider does not have the right and he will be educated on that fact most quickly. There's things that happen in a fire station, in a fire engine, on calls when the work is over that the general public does not know about and does not need to know about. We say things that may make us appear to be uncaring or crass. That's just how we deal with things.


All that being said, there's some similarities to the men in question posing for a picture with one of their symbols. They probably had no intention of the "general public" seeing it, rather it was for themselves to look upon when they are retired and done with that part of their lives. That is not the business of outsiders, it is for them and those like them that are part of the same family.

Yes we live in a global world, and very few things are kept secret. I can agree, somewhat that the people in this country are weakening. We are a far cry from "the greatest generation" That generation went to war, now the military men and women go to war. And because of that all I am authorized to say to our Scout Snipers, and any other service man, is "thank you". Thank you for going over there and getting some payback for yourselves and on my behalf! Make what ever symbol you like, tatoo it, make it into a unit patch and a flag. It's none of my business.

Carry on!

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Here are a few thoughts from one of those limp-wristed civilians, so take 'em for what they are worth (basically nothing).

First, symbols are just that - symbols. Just because some asshats have taken a pair of letters or an arrangement of lines and used it in the process of doing some really evil things does not mean that we should banish those symbols forever. In my mind, doing so only commemorates those evil deeds. I'd rather see the symbols taken back and used in the process of doing some good. It seems to me that is what we see here, and I support it.

Second, this whole civilian-vs-soldier thing worries me a bit. Yeah, I get this whole idea of "you'll never understand"; you're right, I will never understand. But we live in a society where the military serves the will of the people, and in return the people enjoy the protection offered by our brave men. That is a two-way street, and requires immense trust on the behalf of both parties. I personally do not feel it is healthy to speak or act in a manner that erodes that trust.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Blaming the media is utter nonsense. Complaining others - about whiners and pussies and political correctness - is simply a method by which the weak avoid accepting responsibility. I would expect that Marines would take responsibility, be honest, and explain the symbolism.</div></div>

Agreed. Take pride in how these symbols are used, and take the time to explain what they mean to the brave and honorable men who wear them. In absence of that nuance, the uninformed among us will simply assume all the wrong things. Public relations is not a passive activity.

 

[earthquake]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ancient Mariner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They embarassed themselves. They embarassed the USMC uniform.</div></div>

Who? All USMC scout-snipers of the past 30+ years? I know one of them at least wearing a CMH. Probably has a SS-bolt tat or brand. Get a clue.

 

[5RWill]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Blaming the media is not utter nonsense IMO. They shouldn't be there plain and simple, it's not a place for them and all they do is cause the exact argument that has lasted four pages now. Just like the soldiers who pissed on the dead bodies. It's none of our damn business what they did or why they did it, and our opinions don't really hold meaning. A lot of us aren't out there, so saying what you would do or wouldn't doesn't apply to most. The media can go fuck themselves as far as i'm concerned. How many articles are reported a year trying to undermind the american soldier? I can tell you that i often hear more inept controversial stories than i do meaningful good ones. The media doesn't focus on what they sacrifice or do everyday, they don't report a GI doing heroic inspirational acts. The Lt. Colonel Oliver North story is a prime example, granted i don't watch tv that much i've never seen that story until i found it on Youtube. You would think it would be something that you would see because it's inspiring, motivational, and heart felt.

Do i agree or disagree with the symbol? Not really sure, but the bottom line is it doesn't make a damn difference whether i do or not and it's not my place to judge or discriminate like that.

 

[Megahoser]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Megahoser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If one of my children were to wear SS runes I'd burn them off. It's in the most extreme of poor taste and worse judgement, and I'm not the only one who thinks so or who has said so in this or in any one of the other threads that have popped up.</div></div>
"Lighten up...Francis." </div></div>

Feather boas? Excuse me, cliché, and where <span style="font-style: italic">are</span> you hangin' out?

http://twitter.com/megahoser

</div></div> LOL Stalker!!
You have WAY too much free time...and again "Lighten up...Francis." Your drawers are obviously way too tight.

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Couple more questions. What should they be taking responsibility for? Killing millions of Jews or re-using a symbol with history that goes way further than Nazi Germany? You can't figure that one out? You want an explination for the symbol, here its easy. SS, it stands for Scout Sniper. Now you have your answers, move on.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Megahoser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Megahoser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If one of my children were to wear SS runes I'd burn them off. It's in the most extreme of poor taste and worse judgement, and I'm not the only one who thinks so or who has said so in this or in any one of the other threads that have popped up.</div></div>
"Lighten up...Francis." </div></div>

Feather boas? Excuse me, cliché, and where <span style="font-style: italic">are</span> you hangin' out?

http://i42.tinypic.com/219ubgj.jpg

http://twitter.com/megahoser

</div></div> LOL Stalker!!
You have WAY too much free time...and again "Lighten up...Francis." Your drawers are obviously way too tight. </div></div>

At least it ain't a boa what's too tight there, Tiger Lily.

 

[Megahoser]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Megahoser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL Stalker!!
You have WAY too much free time...and again "Lighten up...Francis." Your drawers are obviously way too tight. </div></div>

At least it ain't a boa what's too tight there, Tiger Lily.</div></div>
What can I say...You see a lot of weird shit at an Eddie Izzard show.
You seem awful interested in the feather boa. Suppressing something?

 

[XTR]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

You can argue this any way you want, but unless I misread the story, the picture was posted on the Knights Armaments site and someone saw it and made issue. When you do something that ends up the desk of SecDef it was probably a bad idea, you think?

As to the press, you are being simple to think the press doesn't have a role in war. PR has been a military essential since Caesar.

Off the top of my head..

Little Big Horn, enormously stupid idea, played up in the press, in particular by the widow of GAC, to the great advantage of the US Army and those who wanted the Sioux contained.

Patton and Monte, there is a love hate relationship with the press if you ever wanted to see one.

Dien Bien Phu, as battles that changed history go it was not that big a battle, but a PR nightmare for the French, ended their run in Southeast Asia.


Wars are not won by killing all the guys on the other side, they are won when one side wants to quit more than it wants to fight. Wars cannot be maintained w/o the popular support of the people and that requires reporting of events. Read Sun Tsu it's a very good book.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
First, symbols are just that - symbols. Just because some asshats have taken a pair of letters or an arrangement of lines and used it in the process of doing some really evil things does not mean that we should banish those symbols forever. In my mind, doing so only commemorates those evil deeds. I'd rather see the symbols taken back and used in the process of doing some good. It seems to me that is what we see here, and I support it.

Second, this whole civilian-vs-soldier thing worries me a bit. Yeah, I get this whole idea of "you'll never understand"; you're right, I will never understand. But we live in a society where the military serves the will of the people, and in return the people enjoy the protection offered by our brave men. That is a two-way street, and requires immense trust on the behalf of both parties. I personally do not feel it is healthy to speak or act in a manner that erodes that trust.
</div></div>

Symbols are not just symbols. For example... The swasitka. It's been used around the world since at least 4000 BC, but what do people see when presented with anything that remotely resembles it? They see murder, World War, and blood shed. It's been stereotyped as a symbol of evil when in fact it's prevalent in Hinduism and Buddhism. The American Flag... despite the medias best intention to portray otherwise, when soldiers roll into an area that's been oppressed by a regime with the American flag on their shoulder all those people see is relief if even for a day and freedom.

As for the second part I'm going to defend the civilians. I grew up in an extensive Military Family & Friends network with real operators and real SF. As a Civilian I have still had experiences and dealt with scenarios that many military have not. Just because someone is ex or even active military does not mean they've seen combat, fired a weapon in any type of hostile engagement, or even been in an unfriendly area. That mentality of "I'm better than you because I served" pisses me off. I have plenty of respect for those returning and those that have given their life. The thought that "No civilian will ever understand" is bullshit though unless you know what every civilian has gone through. There are kids, yes KIDS, in Africa that have seen more combat than a majority of several branches of our military. Am I taking away from those that have served and have been in engagements, Nope. Am I going to say that just because them or someone else who has been in or is currently active makes them better than me... fuck no.

Back to the topic at hand. There is always going to be some melodramatic idiot that's going to get offended no matter what. There's morons that are offended simply because they're Marines. The German SS was a black background. The only mistake here is that they didn't keep the picture amongst themselves and the symbols are stereotyped. Once the media dispenses the photos with "Nazi" and "SS" together then that will be every readers first impression and there's no way to fix it.

 

[Seth8541]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can argue this any way you want, but unless I misread the story, the picture was posted on the Knights Armaments site and someone saw it and made issue. When you do something that ends up the desk of SecDef it was probably a bad idea, you think?

As to the press, you are being simple to think the press doesn't have a role in war. PR has been a military essential since Caesar.

Off the top of my head..

Little Big Horn, enormously stupid idea, played up in the press, in particular by the widow of GAC, to the great advantage of the US Army and those who wanted the Sioux contained.

Patton and Monte, there is a love hate relationship with the press if you ever wanted to see one.

Dien Bien Phu, as battles that changed history go it was not that big a battle, but a PR nightmare for the French, ended their run in Southeast Asia.


Wars are not won by killing all the guys on the other side, they are won when one side wants to quit more than it wants to fight. Wars cannot be maintained w/o the popular support of the people and that requires reporting of events. Read Sun Tsu it's a very good book. </div></div>

Well as to the press in the press's "proper" reporting of the war in the last 35 years, that's a joke! Fair and Balanced? Yet another joke! The press is politicaly backed and reports the spin on it that appeased the political party that backs them. That party "manipulates" the American people.

If you think otherwise, then is pure ignorance. Watch the difference in reports from one extreme to another, for example, MSNBC vs. Fox.

Let's just see what the Vietnam Vets opinion on the press and Jane Fonda. How were they treated when they came back from the war? Why is that? Is it because the people state side were there and saw for them selves? Or was it because they heard about it from the media after someone had put their own spin on it?

Our current enemy knows they can manipulate the American people through the media, causing the American people to raise such a stink that they make us pull out of their country, therefore all they need to do is "hang tight" and outlast us.

You tell me if that is what is happening. The enemy has no reason to quit or give up because they know we're on our way out anyways, compliments of the American people. Then being they will have so much time on their hands because we are gone, they can go back to planning terrorist attacks on US soil and kill somemore civilians.

Atleast while troops are on the ground over in their country, they don't have to fly 5000 miles over here to kill an American. JMHO.

And no one ever said we were better than civilians. The issue is to say that tje American people knoe what's best for them in the issues of national security and military affairs is like.saying your children know what's best for them. The President has Military advisors for a reason. He has certain individuals advising him on his campaign. He does not have military advisors advising him on how to run his campaign. It's not their expertise.

If you wanted to have a say so in military affairs, you should have joined up and moved up in rank. You don't hire a contractor to replace the roof on your house and then yell him how to do the job and how to run his company. It's not your area of expertise. Let them do their job, and stay out of their buisiness.

I will say this one mote time......WE DO NOT THINK WE ARE BETTER THAN YOU.

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Symbols are not just symbols. For example... The swasitka. It's been used around the world since at least 4000 BC, but what do people see when presented with anything that remotely resembles it? They see murder, World War, and blood shed. It's been stereotyped as a symbol of evil when in fact it's prevalent in Hinduism and Buddhism. </div></div>

OK, so why let some asshats use a symbol for a decade and wipe out several millennia of history? That happens only because we, the viewer of those symbols, allow ourselves to focus on a single definition.

If someone wants to redefine a symbol, then there is responsibility on behalf of both the user to explain the new (or renewed) meaning behind the symbol, and the viewer has to respect that explanation and modify their understanding accordingly. I see both halves of that missing from this kerfuffle.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Just once I'd like to see someone in a position of authority over whomever has supposedly committed an act decried as grievously offensive; first look at the act, the context and the motivation; second, determine whether there is ill intent or extremely callous disregard for generally accepted standards of decency and third, make a ruling that is sound.

Instead we always get the "College President" or "CEO" rubber stamp acceptance of the outraged, oversensitive, regularly aggrieved party.

In this case, it has been amply and credibly explained that the young Marines have used the SS to signify the words SCOUT-SNIPER.

Further, there is no question that these young men are unequivocally patriotic and anti nazi. So at it's essence the outcry then remains over the font: the shape of the S's...

Since the SS clearly means Scout Sniper and the explanation is not in question, any other interpretation of maliciousness, Anti Semitism, or love of the Nazi's, regardless of the Font chosen for the initials, is a willful act on the part of the offended party.

There is no end to what offends the aggrieved classes yet there is no beginning of what offends me: People can piss on, burn, or wipe their asses with the Bible, The Flag, disrupt military funerals and other articles or symbols widely held to be nearly sacred, without infringement. To offer resistance to such effrontery is deemed censorship, fascist, extreme.

Yet any slight against the LGBT, Feminist, Minority or other anointed group of perpetually offended litigants is cause for outrage that must be condemned and remedied with immediacy and cash...

So the correct statement of the Commandant should have been,

"Regarding the SS seen in the photo, I have concluded that it's merely a time honored expression of bravado among young men asked to do tremendous service for our nation and is not in any way an endorsement of nazisim, nor is intended to offend or diminish the suffering and loss of its victims.

Please allow our young men and women some latitude in their expressions of comradeship in their arduous duties, especially in these difficult times.

Thank you."

 

[earthquake]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Navy barracks at Coronado...they've embarrassed the Navy and America!!!!

 

[Mike]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

I think the point taken away from this entire thread shouldn't be what symbol represents what, the bottom line should be:

DON'T POST SHIT ON THE INTERNET

 

[Seth8541]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the point taken away from this entire thread shouldn't be what symbol represents what, the bottom line should be:

DON'T POST SHIT ON THE INTERNET </div></div>

+10000000000000000

Hit the nail on the head Mike, what "they" don't know can't hurt "us".

Keep that in mind guys, they don't think the way you do, and don't care about your context. Keep you videos, and pictures amongst yourselves.Everything you say and do, can and will be used against you in a court of law.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the point taken away from this entire thread shouldn't be what symbol represents what, the bottom line should be:

DON'T POST SHIT ON THE INTERNET </div></div>

Winner!

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Symbols are not just symbols. For example... The swasitka. It's been used around the world since at least 4000 BC, but what do people see when presented with anything that remotely resembles it? They see murder, World War, and blood shed. It's been stereotyped as a symbol of evil when in fact it's prevalent in Hinduism and Buddhism. </div></div>

OK, so why let some asshats use a symbol for a decade and wipe out several millennia of history? That happens only because we, the viewer of those symbols, allow ourselves to focus on a single definition.

If someone wants to redefine a symbol, then there is responsibility on behalf of both the user to explain the new (or renewed) meaning behind the symbol, and the viewer has to respect that explanation and modify their understanding accordingly. I see both halves of that missing from this kerfuffle. </div></div>

It's called stereotyping and some are harder to change than others. Plus you're going under the presumption that everyone actually uses reason and omits assumptions. Lol... The whole point was that Symbols have meaning and people are quick to assume emotional value rather than logical.

 

[Graham]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The issue is to say that tje American people knoe what's best for them in the issues of national security and military affairs is like.saying your children know what's best for them...If you wanted to have a say so in military affairs, you should have joined up and moved up in rank. You don't hire a contractor to replace the roof on your house and then yell him how to do the job and how to run his company. It's not your area of expertise. Let them do their job, and stay out of their buisiness. </div></div>The American people are not children, and the military is subservient to a civilian leadership. In a democracy it cannot be otherwise. The military is a tool. It exists to serve the people, not to serve itself. Occasionally people in the military, regardless of rank, forget this. Sometimes, when it causes them to do what they want instead of what is expected of them, they get punished for it.

Saying that the role and/or effect of the media has been the same since the 1960s discounts what has happened to the media. The media of today is more like it was in the 1850's than in the 1960's. The internet (and social media) has changed how and why we get our news. Today the cable news networks compete to spin the events to fit their political outlook. Today, to get a balanced opinion, we have to both watch Fox and listen to NPR (which is often what I do). There is now an ever-greater responsibility on the individual to sift the facts - which can be confusing for many who don't know whom or what to believe. Today we are required to think for ourselves like never before, and to make decisions and conclusions based on as many facts as can be found.

That's why I said that instead of complaining about, and denigrating, civilians, Marines should instead explain themselves (as I think you did quite well above, BTW

).

 

[Seth8541]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The issue is to say that tje American people knoe what's best for them in the issues of national security and military affairs is like.saying your children know what's best for them...If you wanted to have a say so in military affairs, you should have joined up and moved up in rank. You don't hire a contractor to replace the roof on your house and then yell him how to do the job and how to run his company. It's not your area of expertise. Let them do their job, and stay out of their buisiness. </div></div>The American people are not children, and the military is subservient to a civilian leadership. In a democracy it cannot be otherwise. The military is a tool. It exists to serve the people, not to serve itself. Occasionally people in the military, regardless of rank, forget this. Sometimes, when it causes them to do what they want instead of what is expected of them, they get punished for it.

Saying that the role and/or effect of the media has been the same since the 1960s discounts what has happened to the media. The media of today is more like it was in the 1850's than in the 1960's. The internet (and social media) has changed how and why we get our news. Today the cable news networks compete to spin the events to fit their political outlook. Today, to get a balanced opinion, we have to both watch Fox and listen to NPR (which is often what I do). There is now an ever-greater responsibility on the individual to sift the facts - which can be confusing for many who don't know whom or what to believe. Today we are required to think for ourselves like never before, and to make decisions and conclusions based on as many facts as can be found.

That's why I said that instead of complaining about, and denigrating, civilians, Marines should instead explain themselves (as I think you did quite well above, BTW

). </div></div>

What i meant was, the only source that the civilians have to base thier opinions is from the media after it has been diluted and twisted around. The President and Military commanders recieved thier information straight.from our intelligence sources, ie. NSA, CIA, etc. That is the information that our military bases its actions on, not the civilian who is not priveledge to that information. That intelligence information is not given to the.public for a specific reason. The issues arise when the President is forced to make a decision based on the advice of his most experienced military commanders who are priveledged to the actual intelligence first hand, and the President who happens be coming up on a re-election is forced to appease the American people.who are basing thier decisions and opinions on what the liberal media is telling them.

It looks to me like todays people (not all) are into voting the person into office that promises them the most free hand outs regardless.of the situation that puts our country in. Today its all about me, me, me. Thier is a lack in the "Greater Good" mindset. Nobody want to sacrifce, its all about immediate gratification. Why do you think people consistently try and vote all our freedoms away, and vote people into office that trample our Constitution? You tell me if that sounds like child-ish decision making.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Garvey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've read this whole tread. While I can see the point that the symbol is similar to the Nazi party, I must side on the fact that this has been the symbol of our Marine Scout Snipers for a very long time. The Nazis were defeated, our Marines can use what ever symbol they want even if it is similar to the Nazi party. If they were playing capture the flag, well then the US ended up with all the enemy's flags and we'll do what ever the hell we want with them even repurpose some and make them into something good.
</div></div>

To the victor go the spoils...and the war trophies.

And we see lots of service members wearing shemags and pakol hats now...

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The American people are not children, and the military is subservient to a civilian leadership. In a democracy it cannot be otherwise. The military is a tool. It exists to serve the people, not to serve itself.</div></div>

"Even when there is a necessity of the military power, within a land, a wise and prudent people will always have a watchful and jealous eye over it" - some old politician who was named after a famous beer brand

I don't like the current level of interaction between civilians and the military. Civvies seem to have some sort of detached disgust for the military (nothing like the "wise and prudent people" that Adams spoke of), and the military correspondingly takes a we-understand-things-that-you-never-will approach towards interaction with the civilian population. It seems like a self-feeding death spiral.

 

[Accusource8541]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

BINGO!

The fact of the matter is this; regardless of what the CMC or Sgt. Major of the MC says, regardless of what some people on this thread may think, regardless of what the media or the general public want to think, this symbol will continue to be used by Marine Scout Snipers on their tats, brands or tees. It may have to come down at the schools, but the Marines in the STA platoons will continue to use it. Hopefully they will be a little smarter and not blare it in public or over the internet and I hope that the Marines in the picture do not have to pay too heavy of a price for putting the picture out there.

 

[fattycakes]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Considering that the swastika was originally a Buddhist symbol meaning eternity and that it has been used by peaceful people for years I would not worry about a bunch of Snipers using the SS. I have no problems with it and I am a brown man.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Seems to me this is about 20-30 years old.

Back in the day someone got all offended when they realized that the Schoolhouse was dripping with "SS" tags. "Education" and "Orders" were handed out, and the "SS" was officially removed from everything.

It still lives on.

Almost every Marine Corps unit that I am aware of prohibits "SS" Branding and Tattoos.

It still lives on.

The lightning bolt "SS" is part of Marine Corps Scout Sniper Tradition. Those on the outside can pontificate the meaning all they want. The reality of it is HOGs don't give a shit. The command knows this and they will do what they need to do to appease the media and congress. They will attempt to keep it out of the public eye, but....

It still lives on.

"Fuck em if they can't take a joke!"

The only reason I don't have an "SS" tattoo or brand is because of the tactical significance of it. It's the same reason the only military specific tat I have is an EGA.

 

[KevinTM]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Just think of the SS thing as balancing out the importation of Chinese communist military ideology into the USMC by Evans Carlson:

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/dickg/gungho.html

Heil Mao!?

Does anyone believe that embracing a slogan of the Chinese communists makes the USMC a communist front organization, instead of expressing admiration for a specific set of traits?

 

[SIERRAWHISKEY]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

Never forget the smell of burning flesh from a good HOG branding,seems to stick around in the barracks for afew days.

Whats the best is a week later when you go on a 20 mile hump...

 

[mission_fail]

Re: Marines Snipers Make Headlines..........again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seems to me this is about 20-30 years old.

Back in the day someone got all offended when they realized that the Schoolhouse was dripping with "SS" tags. "Education" and "Orders" were handed out, and the "SS" was officially removed from everything.

It still lives on.

Almost every Marine Corps unit that I am aware of prohibits "SS" Branding and Tattoos.

It still lives on.

The lightning bolt "SS" is part of Marine Corps Scout Sniper Tradition. Those on the outside can pontificate the meaning all they want. The reality of it is HOGs don't give a shit. The command knows this and they will do what they need to do to appease the media and congress. They will attempt to keep it out of the public eye, but....

It still lives on.

"Fuck em if they can't take a joke!"

The only reason I don't have an "SS" tattoo or brand is because of the tactical significance of it. It's the same reason the only military specific tat I have is an EGA. </div></div>

I agree with this. Our platoon made up shirts using the runes and I wear mine proudly. I don't agree with the majority of american society to let me know how I should act. Otherwise I'd be wearing Abercrombie and Fitch polos (and other overpriced name brand shit) and listening to Lady Gaga. I'll do what I think is right while respecting the rights of others.
On a side note, I gave one of these shirts to a friend of mine who's Jewish and she wears it and was very understanding.