Gunsmithing Marking a barrel

dareposte

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I've got a custom tube put on, but it doesn't have any markings on it. What's the recommended way to add the caliber / cartridge? I've got a set of small metal stamp dies that might work but it seems like such a sloppy method.
 

STR

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Re: Marking a barrel

The person installing your barrel had the legal obligation to mark it. Since that is in the past, you can take it to almost any engraving shop with a pantograph type engraver, and they might be able to help you if you want something that looks nice. If you were near me, I would do it for nothing. Some people still use stamps, but that looks terrible compared to CNC machine done. Best of luck.
 

border_reiver

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Re: Marking a barrel

really? a legal obligation to? so if I chambered a barrel in my garage, I would be obliged to mark it? Not being funny, just didn't know that was the case..
 

Hateca

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    Re: Marking a barrel

    The builder is only obligated to mark the weapon under certain legal circumstances and even then a marking variance can be obtained.

    That being said, you can have the barrel hand punched stamped, engraved, or CNC, but most will either use an etching process or CNC.
     

    dhutch

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    Re: Marking a barrel

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The builder is only obligated to mark the weapon under certain legal circumstances and even then a marking variance can be obtained.

    That being said, you can have the barrel hand punched stamped, engraved, or CNC, but most will either use an etching process or CNC.
    </div></div>

    Give us a for instance?

    If they chamber and then barrel the action?
     

    former naval person

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    Re: Marking a barrel

    Probably no obligation...but, it would be nice for succeeding generations to have the caliber marked. And, if the gunsmith is well known, to have barrel maker and fitter also inscribed. Will add value if you EVER decided to sell the piece. JMHO
     

    jeffbird

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    Re: Marking a barrel

    27 C.F.R. § 479.102

    Code of Federal Regulations
    Title 27. Alcohol, Tobacco Products and Firearms
    Chapter II. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, Department of Justice
    Subchapter B. Firearms and Ammunition
    Part 479. Machine Guns, Destructive Devices, and Certain Other Firearms
    Subpart G. Registration and Identification of Firearms
    § 479.102 How must firearms be identified?


    (a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows:

    (1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and

    (2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:

    (i) The model, if such designation has been made;

    (ii) The caliber or gauge;

    (iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;

    (iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and

    (v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.

    (b) The depth of all markings required by this section will be measured from the flat surface of the metal and not the peaks or ridges. The height of serial numbers required by paragraph (a)(1) of this section will be measured as the distance between the latitudinal ends of the character impression bottoms (bases).

    (c) The Director may authorize other means of identification upon receipt of a letter application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that such other identification is reasonable and will not hinder the effective administration of this part.

    (d) In the case of a destructive device, the Director may authorize other means of identifying that weapon upon receipt of a letter application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) such a weapon would be dangerous or impracticable.

    (e) A firearm frame or receiver that is not a component part of a complete weapon at the time it is sold, shipped, or otherwise disposed of by you must be identified as required by this section.

    (f)(1) Any part defined as a machine gun, muffler, or silencer for the purposes of this part that is not a component part of a complete firearm at the time it is sold, shipped, or otherwise disposed of by you must be identified as required by this section.

    (2) The Director may authorize other means of identification of parts defined as machine guns other than frames or receivers and parts defined as mufflers or silencers upon receipt of a letter application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that such other identification is reasonable and will not hinder the effective administration of this part.

    (Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number 1140-0050)

    [51 FR 39632, Oct. 29, 1986; 53 FR 10510, March 31, 1988; T.D. ATF-461, 66 FR 40601, Aug. 3, 2001; ATF 11F, 73 FR 57242, Oct. 2, 2008]
     

    Hateca

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  • Aug 12, 2004
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    Re: Marking a barrel

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dhutch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The builder is only obligated to mark the weapon under certain legal circumstances and even then a marking variance can be obtained.

    That being said, you can have the barrel hand punched stamped, engraved, or CNC, but most will either use an etching process or CNC.
    </div></div>

    Give us a for instance?

    If they chamber and then barrel the action? </div></div>

    Only applies to licensed manufactures. One can have a rifle assembled from parts by a rifle builder or gunsmith who isn't a licensed manufacture and this is perfectly legal by definition. There is a long list of do's and don'ts related to what is and isn't or who should be licensed as a manufacture and what would be considered a manufacture to even begin to go into it here.

     

    border_reiver

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    Re: Marking a barrel

    That looks more like it applies to gun makers, not necessarily parts changers like rebarreling jobs. If I'm wrong, the date explains why it would be news, as I'd left the states in 2002 and know there's some catching up to do..
     

    jeffbird

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    Re: Marking a barrel

    Code of Federal Regulations
    Title 27. Alcohol, Tobacco Products and Firearms
    Chapter II. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, Department of Justice
    Subchapter B. Firearms and Ammunition
    Part 479. Machine Guns, Destructive Devices, and Certain Other Firearms

    § 479.11 Meaning of terms.

    "Make. This term and the various derivatives thereof shall include manufacturing (other than by one qualified to engage in such business under this part), putting together, altering, any combination of these, or otherwise producing a firearm."

    "Manufacturer. Any person who is engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms."

     

    Hateca

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  • Aug 12, 2004
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    Re: Marking a barrel

    Don’t get caught up in definitions this is where much of the confusion comes from. What is and isn't a manufacture is what one needs to worry about. Was all the parts obtained by a licensed individual to assemble for resale, and is it a normal course of business.

    If one brings a firearm to a licensed dealer for a barrel swap this is not manufacturing a weapon. The weapon was not obtained buy the dealer, it was not offered for resale, and it may not be a normal course of business.

    Like I said there is a whole lot more to it then one realizes.

    The OP's barrel may be unmarked and it could be perfectly legal.


    Below are examples of operations performed on firearms and guidance as to whether or not such operations would be considered manufacturing under the Gun Control Act (GCA). These examples do not address the question of whether the operations are considered manufacturing for purposes of determining excise tax. Any questions concerning the payment of excise tax should be directed to the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau, U.S. Department of the Treasury.

    1.A company produces a quantity of firearm frames or receivers for sale to customers who will assemble firearms.

    The company is engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms and should be licensed as a manufacturer of firearms.

    2.A company produces frames or receivers for another company that assembles and sells the firearms.

    Both companies are engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms and each should be licensed as a manufacturer of firearms.

    3.A company provides frames to a subcontractor company that performs machining operations on the frames and returns the frames to the original company which assembles and sells the completed firearms.

    Both companies are engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms and should be licensed as manufacturers of firearms.

    4.A company produces barrels for firearms and sells the barrels to another company that assembles and sells complete firearms.

    Because barrels are not firearms, the company that manufactures the barrels is not a manufacturer of firearms. The company that assembles and sells the firearms should be licensed as a manufacturer of firearms.

    5.A company receives firearm frames from individual customers, attaches stocks and barrels and returns the firearms to the customers for the customers' personal use.

    The operations performed on the firearms were not for the purpose of sale or distribution. The company should be licensed as a dealer or gunsmith, not as a manufacturer of firearms.

    6.A company acquires one receiver, assembles one firearm, and sells the firearm.

    The company is not manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business and is not engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms. This company does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer.

    7.An individual acquires frames or receivers and assembles firearms for his personal use, not for sale or distribution.

    The individual is not manufacturing firearms for sale or distribution and is not required to be a licensed manufacturer.

    8.A gunsmith regularly buys military type firearms, Mausers etc., and “sporterizesâ€￾ them for resale.

    The gunsmith is in the business of manufacturing firearms and should be licensed as a manufacturer.

    9.A gunsmith buys semiautomatic pistols or revolvers and modifies the slides to accept new Style f sights. The sights are not usually sold with these firearms and do not attach to the existing mounting openings.

    The gunsmith offers these firearms for sale. This would be considered the manufacturing of firearms and the gunsmith should be licensed as a manufacturer.

    10.A gunsmith buys government model pistols and installs “drop-inâ€￾ precision trigger parts or other “drop-in partsâ€￾ for the purpose of resale.

    This would be considered the manufacturing of firearms, as the gunsmith is purchasing the firearms, modifying the firearms and selling them. The gunsmith should be licensed as a manufacturer.

    11.A gunsmith buys surplus military rifles, bends the bolts to accept a scope, and then drills the receivers for a scope base. The gunsmith offers these firearms for sale.

    This would be considered the manufacturing of firearms and the gunsmith should be licensed as a manufacturer.

    12.A gunsmith buys surplus military rifles or pistols and removes the stocks, adds new stocks or pistol grips, cleans the firearms, then sends the firearms to a separate contractor for bluing. These firearms are then sold to the public.

    This would be considered manufacturing of firearms and the gunsmith should be licensed as a manufacturer.

    13.A company purchases surplus firearms, cleans the firearms then offers them for sale to the public.

    The company does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer.
     

    jeffbird

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    Re: Marking a barrel

    HateCA,
    The way I read that, it only address whether someone is a "manufacturer" and should be licensed as a manufacturer. A "maker" appears to be defined as a distinct category, other than a manufacturer, for purposes of the identification regulation.

    27 C.F.R. § 479.102

    (a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows:

    27 C.F.R. § 479.11 Meaning of terms.

    "Make. This term and the various derivatives thereof shall include manufacturing <span style="font-style: italic">(other than by one qualified to engage in such business under this part),</span> putting together, altering, any combination of these, or otherwise producing a firearm."

    "Manufacturer. Any person who is engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms."


    What do you think? Just for discussion, not arguing at all.
     

    Kells81

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  • Nov 15, 2006
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    Re: Marking a barrel

    I used to like to have my barrels marked on the underside so you couldnt see the markings, was kinda lame in a way but my smith had to put a caliber marking on it somewhere. If you hand punch it this may be a good option for you. It could look like shit but it would be turned under so it wouldnt really matter. I think it is bad juju to not mark a custom job,
     

    Hateca

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  • Aug 12, 2004
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    Re: Marking a barrel

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffbird</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HateCA,
    The way I read that, it only address whether someone is a "manufacturer" and should be licensed as a manufacturer. A "maker" appears to be defined as a distinct category, other than a manufacturer, for purposes of the identification regulation.

    27 C.F.R. § 479.102

    (a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows:

    27 C.F.R. § 479.11 Meaning of terms.

    "Make. This term and the various derivatives thereof shall include manufacturing <span style="font-style: italic">(other than by one qualified to engage in such business under this part),</span> putting together, altering, any combination of these, or otherwise producing a firearm."

    "Manufacturer. Any person who is engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms."


    What do you think? Just for discussion, not arguing at all. </div></div>

    PM so as not to confuse or concern the OP any further.
     

    dareposte

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    Re: Marking a barrel

    Wow lots of action on this thread. I chambered the barrel with a friend and installed it, my first full custom install from an untouched blank so that's why it's not marked.

    I didn't realize it would be a big deal legally but I know it would be nice to have it marked for reference in 10 years.

    In all likelyhood I'll have the barrel shot out in a year, so I guess I'll just use my metal stamps for the caliber. It looks like I should also mark the barrel with my name and hometown too just to cover any applicable laws.
     

    Hateca

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  • Aug 12, 2004
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    Re: Marking a barrel

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dareposte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow lots of action on this thread. I chambered the barrel myself and installed it, my first full custom install from an untouched blank so that's why it's not marked.

    I didn't realize it would be a big deal legally but I know it would be nice to have it marked for reference in 10 years.

    In all likelyhood I'll have the barrel shot out in a year, so I guess I'll just use my metal stamps for the caliber. It looks like I should also mark the barrel with my name and hometown too just to cover any applicable laws. </div></div>

    That's why I said there's more to it then most realize
    wink.gif


    You’re not a manufacture you don’t need to do anything.