I have a load that I like for my Remington 700 SPS Tactical .308 that shoots perfect. I shoot 175gr SMK's and hear good/bad about using them for hunting. I was wondering if anyone has developed a hunting load that zeros on the same point of impact as their match load. Im not looking for my dope to be the same just the zero, to eliminate rezeroing between hunting and target shooting. If not, do you adjust your scope between hunting and target shooting, or have a completely different rifle for each purpose?
Match Ammo...Hunting Ammo...Same POI?
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Re: Match Ammo...Hunting Ammo...Same POI?
You may be able to get two different bullets to coincide at one place but BC and weight will work against two bullets being the same for the entire ballistic curve. From looking at different bullets Berger makes match and hunting bullets that are interchangeable. Their only difference is jacket thickness.
If you are looking for one zero for two bullets you can pick your range, pick your bullet and adjust velocity to have two bullets intersect at one point. Your windage will change for both rounds.
You may be able to get two different bullets to coincide at one place but BC and weight will work against two bullets being the same for the entire ballistic curve. From looking at different bullets Berger makes match and hunting bullets that are interchangeable. Their only difference is jacket thickness.
If you are looking for one zero for two bullets you can pick your range, pick your bullet and adjust velocity to have two bullets intersect at one point. Your windage will change for both rounds.
Re: Match Ammo...Hunting Ammo...Same POI?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You may be able to get two different bullets to coincide at one place but BC and weight will work against two bullets being the same for the entire ballistic curve. From looking at different bullets Berger makes match and hunting bullets that are interchangeable. Their only difference is jacket thickness.
If you are looking for one zero for two bullets you can pick your range, pick your bullet and adjust velocity to have two bullets intersect at one point. Your windage will change for both rounds. </div></div>
I know my drop and curve will be different between the two, Im just trying to eliminate having to adjust the Zero on my scope between hunting and target shooting. Do you just adjust your scope, or have a separate hunting rig and target rig?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You may be able to get two different bullets to coincide at one place but BC and weight will work against two bullets being the same for the entire ballistic curve. From looking at different bullets Berger makes match and hunting bullets that are interchangeable. Their only difference is jacket thickness.
If you are looking for one zero for two bullets you can pick your range, pick your bullet and adjust velocity to have two bullets intersect at one point. Your windage will change for both rounds. </div></div>
I know my drop and curve will be different between the two, Im just trying to eliminate having to adjust the Zero on my scope between hunting and target shooting. Do you just adjust your scope, or have a separate hunting rig and target rig?
Re: Match Ammo...Hunting Ammo...Same POI?
I keep a set of notes in my DOPE book indicating the offset of one ammo to the std loading.
With this offset and a dialed in DOPE table, you apply the offset to the std zero (both elevation and windage) than apply the ballistics of the ammo being shot (elevation wrt distance, windage wrt wind conditions) and you now have POI ~= POA.
Its not quite as good as having the rifle zeroed for that ammo, but its generally within 1 click of reality.
I keep a set of notes in my DOPE book indicating the offset of one ammo to the std loading.
With this offset and a dialed in DOPE table, you apply the offset to the std zero (both elevation and windage) than apply the ballistics of the ammo being shot (elevation wrt distance, windage wrt wind conditions) and you now have POI ~= POA.
Its not quite as good as having the rifle zeroed for that ammo, but its generally within 1 click of reality.
Re: Match Ammo...Hunting Ammo...Same POI?
I have different zeros for my Savage for different loads. You might have to play with one or two loads to get a little data on them to compare for zeros.
I have different zeros for my Savage for different loads. You might have to play with one or two loads to get a little data on them to compare for zeros.
Re: Match Ammo...Hunting Ammo...Same POI?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have different zeros for my Savage for different loads. You might have to play with one or two loads to get a little data on them to compare for zeros. </div></div>
Thanks for the info...I think im gonna go with Berger 175gr VLDs and use the load data I use for my 175gr SMKs and do some rounds a few grains below and above and check POI...Once I get the same POI I will work up a separate dope for the different curve...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have different zeros for my Savage for different loads. You might have to play with one or two loads to get a little data on them to compare for zeros. </div></div>
Thanks for the info...I think im gonna go with Berger 175gr VLDs and use the load data I use for my 175gr SMKs and do some rounds a few grains below and above and check POI...Once I get the same POI I will work up a separate dope for the different curve...
Re: Match Ammo...Hunting Ammo...Same POI?
I had some success substituting the Sierra 180gr SPT Game King #2160 for the 175SMK when my supply dried up just before a match. Probably not spot-on, but very similar, and recommended by Sierra for exactly what you have in mind.
My experience suggested the jacket material was softer, probably to help expansion, and it seemed to develop copper fouling a little sooner. Otherwise, it appears a very accurate hunting bullet
Honestly, I'd try the various Remington .308 Core-Lokt offerings. Find one that performs well, and maybe forget about tryng for a common POI. I use the Pejsa Stock Table printout feature and print one for each load, affixing them both to the rifle stock. That way I can zero for one, and then adjust between the two for either load. Once you've worked out the process and confirmed the charts for a few known distances, it actually becomes a fairly easy thing to do.
Nowadays, I no longer use the .308. The .260 does my LR Match work, and hunting gets done with a nice lightweight .30-'06 M-70 sporter. I am experimenting with the .280 Rem as an all around LR Match/Generic Hunting caliber. I have two Ruger 77 MKI's chambered for it; one with a sporter barrel, the other with a varmint weight barrel. So for, estimating about 20-30% of the way through the project, it looks especially promising.
Greg
I had some success substituting the Sierra 180gr SPT Game King #2160 for the 175SMK when my supply dried up just before a match. Probably not spot-on, but very similar, and recommended by Sierra for exactly what you have in mind.
My experience suggested the jacket material was softer, probably to help expansion, and it seemed to develop copper fouling a little sooner. Otherwise, it appears a very accurate hunting bullet
Honestly, I'd try the various Remington .308 Core-Lokt offerings. Find one that performs well, and maybe forget about tryng for a common POI. I use the Pejsa Stock Table printout feature and print one for each load, affixing them both to the rifle stock. That way I can zero for one, and then adjust between the two for either load. Once you've worked out the process and confirmed the charts for a few known distances, it actually becomes a fairly easy thing to do.
Nowadays, I no longer use the .308. The .260 does my LR Match work, and hunting gets done with a nice lightweight .30-'06 M-70 sporter. I am experimenting with the .280 Rem as an all around LR Match/Generic Hunting caliber. I have two Ruger 77 MKI's chambered for it; one with a sporter barrel, the other with a varmint weight barrel. So for, estimating about 20-30% of the way through the project, it looks especially promising.
Greg
Re: Match Ammo...Hunting Ammo...Same POI?
Good luck on this. Tough thing to do. The post about the 175smk and the 180 gameking sounds like a good start. I normally shoot the 180smk, and then developed a 180 gameking load, which always hits higher than the 180smk....but close.
Good luck on this. Tough thing to do. The post about the 175smk and the 180 gameking sounds like a good start. I normally shoot the 180smk, and then developed a 180 gameking load, which always hits higher than the 180smk....but close.
Re: Match Ammo...Hunting Ammo...Same POI?
Another thought is to simply use the target bullet for hunting. I smoked a deer at 675 yards with a 180smk and it did fine. Before this, I normally used Federal Powershok 150 at ranges between 100 yards and 450 yards. Both powershock and the smk seemed to zip right through the deer with minimal expansion. A good heart/lung shot doesn't really need to "expand". Deer will run 100 yards when hit this way in my experience. I've never used cor-lokt, but my friend hit a deer with one from a 270, and it smashed the heart/lungs out the other side of the deer through a 10" diameter hole.
As always, consider what is beyond your target! Bullets that zing through will travel further than those that open up.
Another thought is to simply use the target bullet for hunting. I smoked a deer at 675 yards with a 180smk and it did fine. Before this, I normally used Federal Powershok 150 at ranges between 100 yards and 450 yards. Both powershock and the smk seemed to zip right through the deer with minimal expansion. A good heart/lung shot doesn't really need to "expand". Deer will run 100 yards when hit this way in my experience. I've never used cor-lokt, but my friend hit a deer with one from a 270, and it smashed the heart/lungs out the other side of the deer through a 10" diameter hole.
As always, consider what is beyond your target! Bullets that zing through will travel further than those that open up.
Re: Match Ammo...Hunting Ammo...Same POI?
I have tried to do the same and came to a solution that mitchalsup is using. I keep a record of all my zeros on my home range. I record the elevation from the bottom and windage from the left. I so this so I can move from load to load without problems and if I ever get lost in the dial (no zero stop) I can just bottom the elevation out and come up. I have zero data for 110 SVK, 168 & 175 SMK, 180gr Remington bullets. It has worked for me and it's much cheaper than buying more than one weapon, and training with multiple weapons.
Edit to add: I started out trying to find a hunting bullet that would mirror 175 SMK, but found the hunting bullets would not only have different elevation, but different windage settings as well. I stopped chasing it and decided to try keeping track of different zeros and it has worked.
I have tried to do the same and came to a solution that mitchalsup is using. I keep a record of all my zeros on my home range. I record the elevation from the bottom and windage from the left. I so this so I can move from load to load without problems and if I ever get lost in the dial (no zero stop) I can just bottom the elevation out and come up. I have zero data for 110 SVK, 168 & 175 SMK, 180gr Remington bullets. It has worked for me and it's much cheaper than buying more than one weapon, and training with multiple weapons.
Edit to add: I started out trying to find a hunting bullet that would mirror 175 SMK, but found the hunting bullets would not only have different elevation, but different windage settings as well. I stopped chasing it and decided to try keeping track of different zeros and it has worked.
Re: Match Ammo...Hunting Ammo...Same POI?
This is a very hard trick to accomplish. It is hard to even get different lots to act exactly the same much less different types of bullets to get the same POI. I say just take notes and work them interchangeably.
This is a very hard trick to accomplish. It is hard to even get different lots to act exactly the same much less different types of bullets to get the same POI. I say just take notes and work them interchangeably.
Re: Match Ammo...Hunting Ammo...Same POI?
I went through this myself a few years back, and decided that it would be best to prioritize. For me, hunting is the priority and not target shooting. If you are a competitive shooter, this may not be the case. With that being said, I decided to stick with the hunting bullets and to shoot them exclusively. The 180 game kings are pretty darn accurate (at least in my rifle), and relatively cheap to allow you to shoot more often. Good BC and performance on animals up to elk size. Others start to get significantly more pricey, but in the end may be justifiable. To me, all of the target shooting and possibly even competitions are practice to build confidence and knowledge about that bullet/load's performance in many variable conditions. This intimate familiarity with the load should then serve you well when hunting season comes around. Just a suggestion, hope it helps.
Stefan
I went through this myself a few years back, and decided that it would be best to prioritize. For me, hunting is the priority and not target shooting. If you are a competitive shooter, this may not be the case. With that being said, I decided to stick with the hunting bullets and to shoot them exclusively. The 180 game kings are pretty darn accurate (at least in my rifle), and relatively cheap to allow you to shoot more often. Good BC and performance on animals up to elk size. Others start to get significantly more pricey, but in the end may be justifiable. To me, all of the target shooting and possibly even competitions are practice to build confidence and knowledge about that bullet/load's performance in many variable conditions. This intimate familiarity with the load should then serve you well when hunting season comes around. Just a suggestion, hope it helps.
Stefan
Re: Match Ammo...Hunting Ammo...Same POI?
Personally, I would use the match bullets. I shoot Antelope, Deer and steel with a 155 Scenar. A well placed shot will do the job every time.
Personally, I would use the match bullets. I shoot Antelope, Deer and steel with a 155 Scenar. A well placed shot will do the job every time.
Re: Match Ammo...Hunting Ammo...Same POI?
I found the 168 SMK and 165 GMK worked great side by side to 400 yards. I am shooting minute of buck not cutting gnat gonads off.
These days I use the 168 Amax for everything from feral hogs, coyotes, deer and F-Class.
The subject has been beat to death many times but IF you believe in bullet placement over magic bullets then shooting one bullet with one load of powder out of one rifle everytime makes more sense than golf bagging the rifles and juggling a handful of different bullets.
Good Luck
I found the 168 SMK and 165 GMK worked great side by side to 400 yards. I am shooting minute of buck not cutting gnat gonads off.
These days I use the 168 Amax for everything from feral hogs, coyotes, deer and F-Class.
The subject has been beat to death many times but IF you believe in bullet placement over magic bullets then shooting one bullet with one load of powder out of one rifle everytime makes more sense than golf bagging the rifles and juggling a handful of different bullets.
Good Luck
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