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Match Rifle Build

neeltburn

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 23, 2013
460
140
South Western Indiana
Currently I shoot a Savage Model 10 .308 with a Bell and Carlson Tactical Medalist stock, CDI DBM, 11* target crown, Threaded with SAS TOMB for SAS Arbiter suppressor, it has been bedded trigger has been worked , and set at 2.5 lbs. I run a Nightforce 3.5-15 2nd Focal Plane NXS with 56mm objective. So Here goes the main part of my question. I realize .308 is not the most competitive round for the bigger matches so here is was I am looking at.

I have a Remington 700 in .22-250 with a Timney 510 trigger in it now. I am looking to use the action and trigger and have it re-barreled to .260 Remington with a Bartlen barrel blank. Thinking either 26 or 24 inch. I plan on putting it into an AI AICS stock. For optics right now my choice is a Vortex Razor HD 5-20 with a 20moa Seekins base and rings. Is this a good start for a match rifle or should I look at doing something else? The 22-250 would be replaced with a Savage in 22-250 as I could do barrel swaps on it my self.
 
If you're talking about the tactical sort of matches like the PRS it seems like the guys who are winning it are running mostly 6mm cartridges. Most notably 6mm Creedmoor and pushing them as close to the 3150fps limit as they can. They use the 6mm calibers to reduce recoil to spot their own shots and reduce time of flight to minimize the effect of wind.

It also looks like there's a lot of other random 6mm cartridges .243 Remington, 6mm SLR, 6mm XC.

Check out this

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...actical-shooters-equipment-what-pros-use.html

And this

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...97-2013-snipers-hide-cup-aar.html#post2658873

Most of these are essentially wildcats. A guy took third in that match with a .243
 
The 260 is an awesome round to get you into tactical comps. Sure you will be giving up something to the guys shooting a 243 or 6CM, but you will have almost twice the barrel life. Remember a lot of the guys in the PRS matches are looking to get every advantage they can and don't mind paying extra to get it. As a first comp gun, you will be more than happy with a 260 and once you shoot it out you can decide if you want to go 6mm or not.
 
With the 22-250 being a long action you have ALOT of options. One thing my cousin and I have run into before is with a 7-08 in a long action it didnt want to feed well. It wasnt as much the diameter of the case but the length. Id highly recommend the 280ai. If you put a good break on the rifle with the weight of the aics you will easily spot shots. You will have a 1 mile range with the 180 hybrids same barrel life as a 260, no feed problems and less wind drift at max ranges.

Just my opinion.

Good luck,
Merritt
 
I think you just need to stop taking and get to work on it. 6mm is a little better balistically but if you are used to shooting a 308 you will feel like you're cheating with a 260. Or that is what I hope but soon to find out. The seed on my 260 has been placed and she is in the womb as we speak
 
Why not just buy a prefit barrel in 260 or 6.5 Creedmoor for your Savage?


I am quite happy with how this rifle shoots, I do not want do anything to this rifle

I think you just need to stop taking and get to work on it. 6mm is a little better balistically but if you are used to shooting a 308 you will feel like you're cheating with a 260. Or that is what I hope but soon to find out. The seed on my 260 has been placed and she is in the womb as we speak

This is true I have no wife to tell me no, how many weeks is it is along? I guess far enough to know what its gonna be.
 
260 is a great choice. I shoot mostly 243 and 6.5CM now, the 243 is hard to match with the 260/6.5 but as SSC mentioned, you will gain barrel life. I have had more than one 243 barrel go to 2500 rounds and still shoot like they were new, powder and how hard you run it play a huge role. I think the 260 is a great choice, don't think twice about it.
 
260 is a great choice. I shoot mostly 243 and 6.5CM now, the 243 is hard to match with the 260/6.5 but as SSC mentioned, you will gain barrel life. I have had more than one 243 barrel go to 2500 rounds and still shoot like they were new, powder and how hard you run it play a huge role. I think the 260 is a great choice, don't think twice about it.

If AI had an AICS Chassis for the Savage Model 10 I would get an action and maybe do a 243 since I could swap the barrels myself, but Not luck and Savage has changed the action yet again.( Maybe they shouldn't F*&( with stuff that isnt broke.) So I am not expecting an AI AICS for a Model 10 for quite some time. So since I cannot swap a 700 barrel myself I am leaning 260 Remington for the mix of good ballistics and barrel life.
 
AICS 2.0 for Savage:
Accuracy International AICS Savage 10 S/A 2.0 Chassis - FDE - Mile High Shooting

(centerfeed, short action, top bolt release)


Yeah I saw that, only problem is now they have moved the bolt release to the bottom, so I would have to find a used action.. Im not that patient. I can get the Savage Model 10 Action but it will have bottom bolt release and will not work in the AICS stock, I also have not seem them instock @ Mile High or anywhere for a while..
 
Hunt down a stevens 200 short action and it will drop right in. They are still making them.

And I would highly recommend the 6.5x47 over the 260. More consistant powder burn with almost identical ballistics.

Good luck,
Merritt
 
I think Jim Briggs has some Savage actions in stock. Give him a call

The last I heard he was out of actions and could only get the new bottom bolt release. But by looking at the .260 Rem. i can re barrel my 700 once and do a 22-250 in a savage with a faster twist barrel. Does anyone know if AI is going to release a compatible chassis for the bottom bolt release?


Sent from my IPhone 4s An AT&T not so 4G phone via Tapatalk.
 
The last I heard he was out of actions and could only get the new bottom bolt release. But by looking at the .260 Rem. i can re barrel my 700 once and do a 22-250 in a savage with a faster twist barrel. Does anyone know if AI is going to release a compatible chassis for the bottom bolt release?


Sent from my IPhone 4s An AT&T not so 4G phone via Tapatalk.

I think he has 3-screw targets in stock, but that was a couple of weeks ago. Looks like you have a good plan one way or the other.
 
I think he has 3-screw targets in stock, but that was a couple of weeks ago. Looks like you have a good plan one way or the other.

Thanks Man! I have a lot to learn but everyone of our local matches is a learning experience to gain the knowledge I will need for some of the bigger matches. I hope to make some bigger matches next year, but want a competitive rig to take along!
 
I'll throw in my .02. Most of what is in here I agree with the exception of barrel life. I do not claim to be any expert but I can tell you these statements as fact as I do shoot some PRS events.. I was too under the presumption of better barrel life with a 6.5mm flavor over the 6mm but that seems in large part to be a myth. I am currently on my second .260 Rem barrel. My first one started to go south at about 1700 rounds. I pulled it at about 2300. The gun was still accurate but the speed had dropped 100 fps which was causing me to need a lot more elevation at the longer ranges. All of this was with mild load of 42.0gr of H4350 and new the barrel was pushing a 139 Scenar at 2780fps. Mild by all standards, and with my second barrel I am running 42.3 grains and running 2820 fps. Other team members have had similar experience with the .260 with barrels starting to go south at about 1700 rounds so this is not a one off case. That is with both Kreiger and Bartlein's.

As far as the 6mm a competitor just had a podium finish with IIRC 2800 rounds on a 6CM. And most of the GAP guys are getting about 2700 rounds on a barrel so really the barrel life argument seems to be mute and arguably backwards.

IMO this is the break down between the 2 bullet choices. 6.5 you have a little more recoil but you have a bigger splash on the target or the berm to spot your shots but at the expense of more recoil which could cause you to move off target if you have poor recoil management. It has more drop than the 6mm but if you are shooting at a KD target then who cares as long as you know what to dial. The only time the "flatter" 6mm will help is on UKD targets which MIGHT compromise 2 targets of the entire course of fire at the matches I have been to. Most matches just have 1 target and several have not had any. The 6.5mm at 1K have about 10% greater wind deflection than the 6mm.

The 6mm, it is faster, much flatter at distance and has about a 10% better wind deflection at 1K yards. The barrel life is the same or better when compared to the .260's that I have seen. The recoil is slightly less but you give up that larger impact signature of the larger 6.5mm bullets which can at times cause a spotter to not give you a hit call if it burns the edge or if you hit reactive targets near the hinge may cause them to not fall. I also heard a lot of guys saying how they had to keep chasing the load all the time in the 6mm where in a 6.5 you could find the load and shoot that until the barrel burned out. Well with the hybrids in the 6mm that seems to be a thing of the past. A very competitive shooter running a 6CM told me he finds the load then loads up 2K of them and runs the heck out of it with 105 Berger hybrids. I have shot one of the 3 guns he has in this caliber and shot about a 4" group at 840 yards with it so I'd say it works well enough for this game.

6.5mm Calibers

260: Best case capacity of all the rounds which in theory should give the best MV. Great Lapua Brass available and you can make brass from .308, 7mm-08, .243 if times get tuff.

6.5CM: The obvious choice IMO if you do not reload as the 140 AMAX loaded ammo from Hornady is reasonably priced when you can find it and even though it has slightly less case capacity many times you can get better MV than you will from a .260. A team guy swapped from .260 to 6.5CM and his MV's went up. The drawback is only having one source of head stamped brass.

6.5x47L: The slowest of the 3 but again great brass available from Lapua. It has a small primer which in turn stays very tight. I have heard of guys getting a ridiculous amount of reloads out of them due to the small primer pocket staying tight. Like 25+ but you will usually lose it by then at tactical matches. You will be slightly handicapped due to speed but not by much and certainly one to entertain.

6mm

.243Win: The old faithful of the 6mm's but running the heavy for caliber projectiles and running them in AI mags you can run out of room and have to seat the bullet deeper in the case which eats up the case capacity and in turn velocity.

6mm Creedmoor: A great round that has the horsepower to get to the PRS speed limit of 3150fps. Some guys are running about 3080 in a good accuracy node but it is close to the limit. Also some matches state 3100 fps as the limit so you are good no matter where you go. The down side is that GA is the only source I know of for head stamped brass. They had a big shipment come in but it is almost all gone and they are not expecting more until Q2 2014 and who knows when they will actually get it.

6XC: A round that has exceptional accuracy with slightly less horsepower than the above. You can not get to the speed limit but this caliber has produced some great accuracy in the bench rest ranks. The down side to it as well is that brass can be hard to find but I think there are more than one source producing it. I am going off of memory and may be wrong so don’t hold me to it but I think Norma and Nosler make it.

In summary either a 6mm or 6.5mm will serve you well. If you go 6.5mm and don’t reload I think the 6.5CM is the winner. If you do then I chose .260. For a 6mm I would and actually am going 6CM on my next build. You can get the bullets up to the speed limit but just make sure you get some brass NOW. The 2 major concerns I had heard about the 6mm's was the barrel life was about 1200 rounds. Well that doesn't seem to be the case at all. And the second was that you had to constantly change your load by chasing the lands. Well with the hybrids this does not seem to be the case either.

I agree that the .308 is just handicapping yourself but trying to pick apart the 6mm vs 6.5mm is in large part spinning wheels. At the end of the day it is the nut behind the bolt. Make a choice and go with it, I promise if you like the game you are going to try another flavor down the road no matter what you choose. But with any of the above choices you will not be handicapped by caliber.

And whatever you do, do not make it a Barbie barrel 18" - 20" rifle. 24" is the shortest I would go. There are too many guys on here jerking off about how fast my short barrel rifle can go. Well I tell you what podna it would have been faster with more barrel length PERIOD! The short barrels have there place, especially for a dedicated suppressed weapon, but a short barrel is not advantageous in this game. 26" is pretty common.
 
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I'll throw in my .02. Most of what is in here I agree with the exception of barrel life. I do not claim to be any expert but I can tell you these statements as fact as I do shoot some PRS events.. I was too under the presumption of better barrel life with a 6.5mm flavor over the 6mm but that seems in large part to be a myth. I am currently on my second .260 Rem barrel. My first one started to go south at about 1700 rounds. I pulled it at about 2300. The gun was still accurate but the speed had dropped 100 fps which was causing me to need a lot more elevation at the longer ranges. All of this was with mild load of 42.0gr of H4350 and new the barrel was pushing a 139 Scenar at 2780fps. Mild by all standards, and with my second barrel I am running 42.3 grains and running 2820 fps. Other team members have had similar experience with the .260 with barrels starting to go south at about 1700 rounds so this is not a one off case. That is with both Kreiger and Bartlein's.

As far as the 6mm a competitor just had a podium finish with IIRC 2800 rounds on a 6CM. And most of the GAP guys are getting about 2700 rounds on a barrel so really the barrel life argument seems to be mute and arguably backwards.

IMO this is the break down between the 2 bullet choices. 6.5 you have a little more recoil but you have a bigger splash on the target or the berm to spot your shots but at the expense of more recoil which could cause you to move off target if you have poor recoil management. It has more drop than the 6mm but if you are shooting at a KD target then who cares as long as you know what to dial. The only time the "flatter" 6mm will help is on UKD targets which MIGHT compromise 2 targets of the entire course of fire at the matches I have been to. Most matches just have 1 target and several have not had any. The 6.5mm at 1K have about 10% greater wind deflection than the 6mm.

The 6mm, it is faster, much flatter at distance and has about a 10% better wind deflection at 1K yards. The barrel life is the same or better when compared to the .260's that I have seen. The recoil is slightly less but you give up that larger impact signature of the larger 6.5mm bullets which can at times cause a spotter to not give you a hit call if it burns the edge or if you hit reactive targets near the hinge may cause them to not fall. I also heard a lot of guys saying how they had to keep chasing the load all the time in the 6mm where in a 6.5 you could find the load and shoot that until the barrel burned out. Well with the hybrids in the 6mm that seems to be a thing of the past. A very competitive shooter running a 6CM told me he finds the load then loads up 2K of them and runs the heck out of it with 105 Berger hybrids. I have shot one of the 3 guns he has in this caliber and shot about a 4" group at 840 yards with it so I'd say it works well enough for this game.

6.5mm Calibers

260: Best case capacity of all the rounds which in theory should give the best MV. Great Lapua Brass available and you can make brass from .308, 7mm-08, .243 if times get tuff.

6.5CM: The obvious choice IMO if you do not reload as the 140 AMAX loaded ammo from Hornady is reasonably priced when you can find it and even though it has slightly less case capacity many times you can get better MV than you will from a .260. A team guy swapped from .260 to 6.5CM and his MV's went up. The drawback is only having one source of head stamped brass.

6.5x47L: The slowest of the 3 but again great brass available from Lapua. It has a small primer which in turn stays very tight. I have heard of guys getting a ridiculous amount of reloads out of them due to the small primer pocket staying tight. Like 25+ but you will usually lose it by then at tactical matches. You will be slightly handicapped due to speed but not by much and certainly one to entertain.

6mm

.243Win: The old faithful of the 6mm's but running the heavy for caliber projectiles and running them in AI mags you can run out of room and have to seat the bullet deeper in the case which eats up the case capacity and in turn velocity.

6mm Creedmoor: A great round that has the horsepower to get to the PRS speed limit of 3150fps. Some guys are running about 3080 in a good accuracy node but it is close to the limit. Also some matches state 3100 fps as the limit so you are good no matter where you go. The down side is that GA is the only source I know of for head stamped brass. They had a big shipment come in but it is almost all gone and they are not expecting more until Q2 2014 and who knows when they will actually get it.

6XC: A round that has exceptional accuracy with slightly less horsepower than the above. You can not get to the speed limit but this caliber has produced some great accuracy in the bench rest ranks. The down side to it as well is that brass can be hard to find but I think there are more than one source producing it. I am going off of memory and may be wrong so don’t hold me to it but I think Norma and Nosler make it.

In summary either a 6mm or 6.5mm will serve you well. If you go 6.5mm and don’t reload I think the 6.5CM is the winner. If you do then I chose .260. For a 6mm I would and actually am going 6CM on my next build. You can get the bullets up to the speed limit but just make sure you get some brass NOW. The 2 major concerns I had heard about the 6mm's was the barrel life was about 1200 rounds. Well that doesn't seem to be the case at all. And the second was that you had to constantly change your load by chasing the lands. Well with the hybrids this does not seem to be the case either.

I agree that the .308 is just handicapping yourself but trying to pick apart the 6mm vs 6.5mm is in large part spinning wheels. At the end of the day it is the nut behind the bolt. Make a choice and go with it, I promise if you like the game you are going to try another flavor down the road no matter what you choose. But with any of the above choices you will not be handicapped by caliber.

And whatever you do, do not make it a Barbie barrel 18" - 20" rifle. 24" is the shortest I would go. There are too many guys on here jerking off about how fast my short barrel rifle can go. Well I tell you what podna it would have been faster with more barrel length PERIOD! The short barrels have there place, especially for a dedicated suppressed weapon, but a short barrel is not advantageous in this game. 26" is pretty common.

I have an SBR and a Suppressor and its a hell of a lot of fun but its not a match gun.. To me I would never go shorter than 24in... Im actually considering going 26 in on this .260 rem build. While I have both a 5.56 and 7.62 suppressor I am not looking to run this match rifle suppressed, at this point. I want the most out of performance and the best barrel life I can get.
 
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1385335154.374389.jpg

Picked up my action today!


Sent from my IPhone 5S.
 
If it was ME...and I've already done this...Find a Criterion, Shilen, Rock or other high quality barrel in .243 before you even take deliver of it have it re-chambered in .243AI, you'll get the long range, flat shooting high BC bullets like the SMK 107 or the Berger 107 at 3000+ fps AND better barrel/throat life than the 243, you can shoot it out of your SAVAGE using your CDI DBM and Mags...snatch up 200-300 LAPUA 243 Brass and rock and roll...uses (loves) IMR4350 which is a go to 308 powder too...same primers, same mags, You already have an awesome set up 308...diversify...add a 243AI barrel to your Savage quiver...

I found a brand new Model 12 Large Shank in 243 and had the chamber reamed for 243AI and the threads turned to small shank, paid new to nothing for the barrel ($125) off a guy rebarreling his new M12, re-threading and reaming cost me a $100 bill...shoots one ragged hole at 100...best yet was 5 round I could cover with a 50 cent piece at 400 yards...of course you'll need some Go/No Go guages for the 243AI too...243 wont work...and dont try that tape crap...get some real guages...