Gunsmithing Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

[Wannashootit]

I like to play/DIY....amateur stuff, whatever I can do without a lathe...drilling/tapping my own scope mounts, "homemade" stocks, cut/crown barrels, usual crap. I'd like to take my learning to the next level.

I've read that every smith starts with a Mauser action build.
I know that there are short-chambered barrels that can be reamed and headspaced without a lathe or specialized equipment, and other work like trueing the action can be done by hand.

But we're somewhat spoiled by the sub-minute accuracy we demand from our long-range rifles. I'd like to do this- but as T.W. said, "only accurate rifles..."

Will I be disappointed with the end result (assuming of course, that my work is up to par) if I go down this road?

If not, is there a "most accurate" large ring mauser action I should start with? I've read to stay away from late war (44-45) K-98 and Spanish actions due to questionable heat treating?

Barrel makers with short-chambered match barrels in the likes of .260, 7-08, etc?

Any suggestions/advice appreciated.

 

[Kells81]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

Nix the Mauser and plan it to be a Remington.... Tons of prefits for remy these days.

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

Too easy...
Already have a couple of Savage "builds" that don't require any gunsmithing skills.
I'm looking to further skills, not just put together another erector set rifle.

 

[ugsly]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

Poke is right, dont waste time & money on an old mauser. Go with the remington. You can buy a barrel short chambered and finish it by hand if you have to.

Kc

 

[Travis S]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

Nothing wrong with a Mauser but why start behind the curve? Go with a Remington or get a surgeon action and don't look back.

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugsly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Poke is right, dont waste time & money on an old mauser. Go with the remington. You can buy a barrel short chambered and finish it by hand if you have to.

Kc </div></div>

Hmmm....so, the consensus is that the Mauser action would somehow result in a less accurate rifle?

We have a 700 VTR in .223 that my son doesn't shoot much anymore since we've "moved" to long range shooting. I've talked to him about re-barreling it.

I'd "heard" of doing the 700 as a switch-barrel, did a search and came up with a couple of threads. At first it seemed that the recoil lug needed to be pinned to the action- which would require a mill from what I've seen. Then another thread mentioned this little gadget, to hold the recoil lug in place when torquing the barrel.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=7653/Product/REMINGTON-700-BARREL-TOOL

I see that NSS offers the barrel nut/barrels.

I'll also need a new bolt (which makes it heck of a lot more expensive than doing a Savage, oh well) with a .473 boltface.

BUT....I've also read that the 700 action should really be trued (SMITH) before installing the barrel. I don't see why this would be any more "necessary" when switching barrels than with a factory barrel.

Comments from anyone that's done a "DIY" Rem barrel change?

I don't see the need for a "switch-barrel" setup, so I'm guessing I can bypass the barrel nut, and get a short-chambered barrel somewhere, same as I would do with a Mauser, and do the final reaming by hand to headspace the barrel.

 

[rifleman700]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

Mausers can be very accurate. I have built 3 and they are all 1/2 to 3/4 moa shooters( hunting rifles ). Are they the best choice? No but they are the best to start out with when learning lathe work. The last thing you should do is screw up a $400 700 when you can get a 98 for under $150.

 

[Burleyboy]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

I did one a while back ona small ring mexican 98. I got s short chambered adams and bennet 7x57 barrel from midway for about $80 and an unfinished stock blank for a 96 that was semi inletted.I got it all together and shooting and then hot blued it and it turned out OK but I never really warmed up to it.

I ended up selling it at a pretty substantial loss. It was a fun project but I'm just more into stainless synthetic 700 based guns right now. I do have several old mausers rat holed away in case I want to build something 20 years from now.

Bb

 

[HispanicPanic]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

Why not start with a Mosin Nagant action? You can buy actions for under $40, or an entire rifle for $90. They are extremely stout, and the bolt design is off the shelf more accurate than a 700 bolt being that it is free floating & requires no truing or machining (provided you have a bent bolt). I think it'll require some good smithing when fiting a barrel blank, but some cost analysis considering the retarded cheap action may even out the playing field. This is actually a build i was thinking of pursuing.

Anyone have any thoughts they could shine on this?

 

[Ledzep]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HispanicPanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why not start with a Mosin Nagant action? You can buy actions for under $40, or an entire rifle for $90. They are extremely stout, and the bolt design is off the shelf more accurate than a 700 bolt being that it is free floating & requires no truing or machining (provided you have a bent bolt). I think it'll require some good smithing when fiting a barrel blank, but some cost analysis considering the retarded cheap action may even out the playing field. This is actually a build i was thinking of pursuing.

Anyone have any thoughts they could shine on this? </div></div>

Two things to deal with using a Mosin action. If you're not going to use 7.62x54r or some variant thereof (wildcat), you're going to have to do extensive work to get a reliable magazine feed, and then you have to deal with the larger bolt face from the external rim on the x54r.

A guy could re-barrel it with a .308" groove barrel in 7.62x54r and use modern .308" bullets and negate all of that using Lapua or Graf's x54r brass, I suppose.

The big plus of the Mauser is that the 7x57mm and 8x57mm cartridges share the same case head diameter and general body profile as .308, .260, .30-06 etc. etc.

For example, I did a straight swap to .308 in two mausers and have reliable feeding. All I changed was the barrel (and stock but that doesn't matter).

 

[Kells81]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

The point is why bother with a Mauser? This isn't the 80's? Rem actions can be had for $300. Barrels pre-fit are the same price as the Mauser pre-fit barrels nearly.

Some make the argument of well you gotta true a Remington action. You don't think you will have to true a Mauser action also? You don't have to true either one to be honest. If your gonna hobby it at home then lap the lugs and put the new barrel on it and move on...

 

[jarhead_h]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

Re: Wannashootit

Bottom line - how much metal work do you really want to do? If the answer is "not really a whole lot," then don't do any. Buy a Savage. You can change everything on it with wrenches, including barrels, and you can still get your hands dirty inletting/bedding in into a stock, and painting it.

On the exact other end of the spectrum, as a long term project I'm doing a a complete redo of a Turk Mauser. It's annealed. I'm going to weld a piece of 1035 to the top and mill a rail in place. Then I'm going to bore out the inner torgue-shoulder just like the Soviets did to the Mosins during WW2 and cut new 16tpi threads to chamber the thing like a rem700 or Win70 - should be okay on a small ring, don't try it on a large. Then I'm going to weld up the bottom metal and mill it out to feed from a AICS mag. Then I'm going to re-weld the bolt handle because it didn't come out right when I hired someone. Then the whole thing has to be sent to Blanchards to be re-heat treated. Then all critical surfaces have to be trued up concentric to the bolt bore. After chambering, the whole stock has to be fine-fit to the action, bedded, then ceracoated.

Why am I going to this much trouble, especially since I have to learn a lot before this can be finished? Because I like CRF, because I like playing with mil-surps, because I can.

Ask yourself if you can say the same, then buy accordingly.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If not, is there a "most accurate" large ring mauser action I should start with? I've read to stay away from late war (44-45) K-98 and Spanish actions due to questionable heat treating?
</div></div>

No, there really isn't a "most accurate" mauser if you are planning to rebarrel it. To be safe, after you strip ANY military mauser action down have your FFL send it to either of these guys to redo the case hardening.:

Blanchard Metals Processing Company
http://www.bmproc.com/

Pacific Metallurgy
http://www.pacmet.com/

 

[hero's machine]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

If I were to do a mauser build, it would wear a 3 weight barrel, chambered in something classic, wear a deep rust blue and lay in a snazzy hunk of walnut. A tac rifle has 700 roots.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

I'm not sure why you would want an barrel nut for your Remington. Once the barrel is headspaced to the action, you only have to spin the barrel on and torque it. No need to check and re-check it every time you swap the barrels around. All you need to do is put a small witness mark on the bottom side of the action. It actually takes less time to swap out than a Savage barrel since nothing moves whle you are torquing things. Just get the recoil lug pinned.
Are you gonna sell the .223 bolt?

 

[Beef_Supreme]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

NEVER seen a Mauser that would shoot, not even a rifle built off of one that could shoot. NOT worth your time at all, EVER. There is NO such other action in existence besides a Remington 700 and it's clones.

Now that I got that out- my first full on custom rifle from action, to barrel and hand making the stock was a Model 96 Swede action that I barreled with an ER Shaw blank in .257 Roberts. For the life of me- I can't get it to shoot worse than .750 3 shots at 100.
A Mauser build is something NOT a tactical rifle build, let's establish that now. Is it capable? Yes. Is is reasonable? I suppose if you have nothing better. A custom Mauser build IMO should be done as a labor of love, they don't make war era Mausers anymore and they are drying up as we go. Getting them cheap and 'customizing them' (i.e. Bubbaing) is a sin. Those that were already bubbaed benefit greatly from some skill. But keep in mind to do it right is not just a file and a drill press kind of project. Forging/welding nice bolt handles well, doing all of the real custom features like metal checkering, trigger guard recontouring and squaring up are not for the faint hearted and novice.
They make nice hunting style custom rifles, and have the accuracy potential you put in them. An old rule of thumb I was told early on in the game was 'Get the best barrel you can, and build the rifle around it.'
Good project, just take your time and do it RIGHT. It's isn't a torque it together, paint it and shoot.

 

[ohnomrbillk]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

I'm with you on a mauser for a pretty gun.

That said, I just shot a heavy stainless barreled synthetic stocked mauser in 240 NMC, and it drove tacs.

My first build was on a mauser. I was taught basic lathe and mill work for it, and learned bench metals making my own scrapers and chisels to carve the stock. It was a ton of work, but I got to make a really nice sporter for my dad, and learned all the pieces to get me started on tactical builds.

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

Thanks for the input.
Jarhead- my thoughts exactly. I like to fuck around with them, some guys play golf, me- I'd rather build a rifle.

As I mentioned (and some missed), already done the Savage "build" a couple of times. Great, accurate rifles- but not a "build" IMO, it's an "assembly".

Already done the Mosin Nagant, this one shoots MOA with handloads. Just looking to have some fun, build an interesting rifle, but need to make sure I don't get in over my head and require a lathe for the work. I do see a Grizzly in my future, though. I realize that a lathe is <span style="font-style: italic">optimal</span> for many tasks, but I managed to cut/crown the Mosin barrel below by hand with a PTG cutter and it came out tits.

With that said, IF necessary, I'm sure I can find a machine shop to do the necessary work. Just trying to get my hands dirty. Now, to look for a comprehensive book on the subject.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

Do the Mauser. The Argentine is a nice action. Mine shot well. Do it in something strange but capable. Mine was a .375-06 IMP. Can you say "DRT"? Awesome hunting caliber.

 

[Ledzep]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Beef_Supreme</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NEVER seen a Mauser that would shoot, not even a rifle built off of one that could shoot. NOT worth your time at all, EVER. There is NO such other action in existence besides a Remington 700 and it's clones.
</div></div>

It can happen

 

[Beef_Supreme]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

So you might hit a bull in the ass sometimes! Is it the NEW standard of MOI (minute of iris) ???

 

[ohnomrbillk]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ledzep</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Beef_Supreme</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NEVER seen a Mauser that would shoot, not even a rifle built off of one that could shoot. NOT worth your time at all, EVER. There is NO such other action in existence besides a Remington 700 and it's clones.
</div></div>

It can happen

</div></div>

What stock is that?

 

[Ledzep]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

FA Enterprises Mauser 98 stock. It's originally laminate or solid wood. I think all of the newer ones are laminate. I had to hog out quite a bit of the barrel channel and action area and bed it (was going to anyway, though).

 

[Justinsaneok]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

Go for it. I'm going to do a intermediate yugo action! lol yes it's got stamped parts. The 8mm barrel in it is smoked. 308 is in it's future.

 

[ejg]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

A friend of mine (STL-Rifles) picked up two Argentine 1909 Mausers. He'll fit pre-chambered Lothar Walther barrels, mine in 20" 308 his in 9.3x62. He'll do the triggers, fit rails and send me the barreled action. From there on I might fit an AICS mag if the feeding isn't up to scratch. I'll also need to convert one of our ultra light carbon stocks to fit.
Apart from the ammount of work it will be a very cheap way of putting a nice hunting rifle together.
edi

 

[hntbambi]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

I say go for it. There aer many on here that think you can't get an accurate rifle unless the price tag is > $1000. I wanted to do a cheap build this past winter so I looked through my toy box and saw a Interarms Mark X laying around. I added a cheap Adams & Bennett stainless fluted barrel that was short chambered (308 Win) and finished by hand. I added a Boyd thumbhold stock and a +20 MOA EGW pic rail. It will shoot sub MOA without load development. I had a box of Southwest Ammo's 175 gr ammo and it shoots just fine. Including the reamer, I have $375 in this gun (action/barrel/trigger/stock/bipod/mount/rings) not including optics.

I have a FN Mauser 98 that has a Pac-Nor Super Match chambered in 6mm-06 Improved resting in a Western Gunstocks singleshot thumbhole stock and it will shoot half MOA. It's set aside for popping little critters at long range.

They don't look as cool as a Rem or other custom, but they can be made to shoot. Just don't get crazy with too heavy of a barrel. The action is not stiff enough to support a lot of weight out there. They are fun to build and when that little group shows up on the target, it is priceless.

 

[fmsniper]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

anyone can build a Remington or savage, go for the mauser, I started on mausers as well and have built many,on a mauser you learn drilling tapping, truing, polishing fitting lapping and much more, PM me I will give you a link to get a great video for beginners

6.5x55, shoots 1/2 MOA

35 Whelen shoots 3/4 MOA

6.5x55 shoots 1/5 MOA

308

308 shoots .25

7mm Rem

270
308

you get the idea

 

[fmsniper]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

this is a good video for beginners who want to build a mauser

http://www.americangunsmith.com/app/prod...t-Action-Rifles

 

[jarhead_h]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

RE: fmsniper

In that video the smith laps in the lugs until he has three points of contact - 95% n the front two and 30% on the rear. Everywhere else I've seen people say NOT to do that, but no explanation why. I'm questioning this because I've seen some of these same people adamantly say not to redo the heat treat, and that ain't magic. What are your thoughts on the subject of three points of contact?

 

[Beef_Supreme]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?


Third lug in rear is a safety lug, it is there to stop a rearward travelling bolt in the event of major catastrophe. If you lap back to that lug, you may well lap back through the lug recess in the receiver. Odds are you won't but if the bolt is a mis match- all bets are off.
On Mausers I have only ever lapped the locking lugs in, and done so carefully. Squaring the lugs on a lathe is always a good idea when they are a mismatch, just take only what is needed for squareness. On suspect military receivers, and mid to late war dates- heat treatment can be an issue, as POWs manufacturing them purposely mis heat treated them, so caution is the word. Kunhausen's book on the Mauser is invaluable to you if you are even remotely serious on building quality Mausers.

 

[jarhead_h]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

Just from reading the reviews it would be a good idea to pick up BOTH of these. They are both cheaper through Midway than Amazon.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/690411/...ook-by-ra-walsh

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/661999/...erry-kuhnhausen

RE: Beef

Okay, heat treat shouldn't be an issue if you have it redone. Again, case hardening ain't magic, the two places I linked to rep out(Esp. Blanchards) as being the people to talk to. And I think that including the bolt with the receiver should be a given. With that as the base, then three points of contact should be safer(less susceptible to setback) because the same amount of force is now being spread across a larger surface area. The trick then would be keeping the bolt from kanting because of the rear lug.

The thing that I see happening with Mausers is that no one seems to have even attempted an update in how they are built. I keep seeing the same mandrel screwed in so that the receiver face can be squared to the threads. What looks like needs to happen as far as the outsider(which would be ME) is concerned, is that the truing method now common among rem700 builds needs to be applied to Mausers. Even if the inner torque shoulder remains annoyingly in the way everything forward that should be able to be trued to the bolt bore - threads, receiver face, torque shoulder face.

I've been scouring forums for any scrap of info I could find for years now. I was going to have one built, but decided that I'd much rather do everything, and I mean everything, myself. I'm even tempted to the do the case hardening, but the pack method used for the military mausers is inferior -even properly done- to the one in use these days, so I think I'm good farming that out.

 

[fmsniper]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

correct 3rd lug in rear is a safety lug, normally it is not touching

I have never had to re heat treat any receivers, i normally use good receivers, VZ24's CZ's M48's 24/47

Good luck let me know if you have any questions, PM me
remember lap 90-100% and defiantly true the face at a minimum
make the extractor snap over, contour extractor to cartridge shape, first before stating make sure receiver is square not bent.

polish

cut out bolt handle notch in receiver

I parkerize on my kitchen stove with brown ells phosphate or Zinc, not hard to do

this is a forged handle but lately I tig weld them on

 

[Sailormilan]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

Yugo action, with heavy 308 barrel, in a black plastic ATI stock, tactical knob installed.

 

[rugerdiggs]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

Is the Interarms Mark X as good or better action than the mauser due to the cut out in the side, will the barrels interchange. Thinking of messing with an interarms mark X long action as a beginner project.

 

[Sailormilan]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

The thumb notch is a weak spot in Mauser actions. So, an Interarms MkX, or any other commercially made action without the thumb notch, will be stronger or more rigid than a military action.
Barring manufacturing tolerences, yes the barrels will/should interchange. However, I have a commercially made Mk X barrel in 308 Win that the threads are so big on it won't screw onto any military 98 action I have more than 1 - 2 turns.
Most 98 actions have large ring threads. 1.1" dia, 12 tpi, cut at 55* Whitsworth. However, some people cut threads using the standard 60* cutter in use nowdays. It will work, but the 55* is a better fit.
Some 98 style actions (notably the Turk 1903 and 1938) use small ring barrel threads, which are .990" dia, 12 tpi, 55* cut. But are otherwise the same.

 

[rugerdiggs]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

Who makes a good trigger to put in the Mark X's. I loaned one to my father-in-law to make a 338-06 and it has a ton of creep. The 270 i have is a decent trigger but could use some work, i havnt had it out of the stock to see how it adjusts, anyone have a link to adjusting them?

 

[Sailormilan]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

IIRC, on the Mk X triggers, there is a screw (top one) that adjust the spring pressure/tension. The next one down adjusts the sear engagement. Then there is one in front of the trigger, which adjusts the safety.
If yours has a "ton of creep", I would start with sear adjustment. In or out, to take the creep out.
Once that is done to your liking, put everything back together, cock it (with an empty chamber), then bounce the rifle a couple of times on its recoil pad to make sure the shock doesn't cause the sear to disengage and cause the firing pin to drop. Some also have an overtravel screw to prevent the trigger from going to far once it has released the sear.

 

[rugerdiggs]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

Ok will try it, thanks Sailor

 

[willlongrifle]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

fmsniper have you modified a mauser 98 bdm to accept detachable
box mags.. thanks..

 

[fmsniper]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

I have not, I was going to 3 or 4 times but honestly never found a good reason to?
I guess just no real need for it

just finished another in 270

 

[Beef_Supreme]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

Did you do the jeweling on the bolt?

 

[fmsniper]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

yes 2 days ago

 

[Beef_Supreme]

Re: Mauser, hobby "build"- worth it?

Looks good, kudos.I am in the process of building my jewelling jig, got to jewel my .416 Taylor bolt, and .257 Roberts as well.