Gunsmithing maybe im an idiot---pillar bedding

[armymedic.2]

i just can not get this in my head-

I have a rem 700 which is sitting in a medallist with bedding blocks. very accurate. i have coming tonight surgeon DBM. it comes with pillars. if i install it with those pillars i will have to dril out the blocks and now the system rests on the pillars and not he blocks correct? also, i want to be about 1 thousandth longer with the pillar than the depth of the stock right (no stock compression)? why wouldn't i just use the reg screws and continue on with my stock sitting on blocks as is?

fyi i still have the original stock and am going to do a practice inlet and fit on it before i go tearing up my medallist. (read-see if i need to send it to jeff @cdi on a piece of garbage instead of my baby) I know this is the advised route, but i really want to do it myself. i make my own wooden bows, and do most of my own minor gun work, just haven't dabbled with one of these before.

please advise

 

[glock24]

Re: maybe im an idiot---pillar bedding

Your logic is sound. If you already have an aluminum bedding block, there is no need for the pillars. Just inlet the stock for the DBM and be happy.

Pillars are used mainly for 100% fiberglass stocks (Manners, McMillan, etc) that need additional compressive support around the action inlet area when the action screws are torqued. In your case, the bedding block already does this perfectly.

I'd also skim-bed your action to the bedding block while you're at it.

 

[crumpmd]

Re: maybe im an idiot---pillar bedding

Save the pillars for another stock. You may have to inlet a bit to make the surgeon BM fit with your action screws. If you have already bedded the stock you are GTG right there. If not then when you get the DBM in hand inlet the stock to fit and then bed the receiver. After bedding check the fit with the screws and test fire and you are GTG.
I used the surgeon dbm with my 308 build in a McM A5 and it is outstanding. The A5 was ordered with pillars and so I have some left over. I bedded the A5 with epoxy and the setup is stress free and shoots well. I am sure you can do the same.

 

[OKbow87]

Re: maybe im an idiot---pillar bedding

I would use the pillars. They are cut to the proper length to make sure the magazine rides in the right place to get reliable feeding. They are there for a reason. Unless you have an extremely accurate vertical mill that you think you can get the inlet depth spot on, I would use the pillars. Thats just my opinion though.

 

[glock24]

Re: maybe im an idiot---pillar bedding

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OKbow87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would use the pillars. They are cut to the proper length to make sure the magazine rides in the right place to get reliable feeding. They are there for a reason. Unless you have an extremely accurate vertical mill that you think you can get the inlet depth spot on, I would use the pillars. Thats just my opinion though. </div></div>

You have a point, the distance between the action and DBM is critical.

That said, I would inlet the depth for the DBM in several steps, assembling and testing the function each time. You'll know when you've reached the correct depth based on how smoothly a dummy round chambers in the barrel.

I just assembled a Seekins DBM with a Stiller TAC30 action. I found that Glen's pillars were actually too short. Modifying some longer ones that I had allowed the action to cycle much better.

 

[Kells81]

Re: maybe im an idiot---pillar bedding

I have a B&C light tactical stock hanging over my bench that I tried to do a badger install myself using a grizz mill. Turns out I would have come out $140 cheaper to have a pro do it. A little body work and paint it would be ok but it sits there as a reminder...

 

[armymedic.2]

Re: maybe im an idiot---pillar bedding

all great points.

poke's point is my main concern.

but lets say i use the pillars bc they are exact spacers for the magazine, then i should be able to assemble the bottom metal to the action without the stock, using the pillars as the tension holder, and be able to cycle feed rounds no problem sans stock right?

then inletting the stock would be strictly aesthetic, as the action is torqued to the bottom metal via the pillars....shit then i have to bed the pillars so it is not floating in the stock don't i?

 

[armymedic.2]

Re: maybe im an idiot---pillar bedding

and wait a minute, if i inlet too deep without the pillars, then couldn't i just put in the pillars and bed them to the stock, solving my inlet error?

 

[glock24]

Re: maybe im an idiot---pillar bedding

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armymedic.2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and wait a minute, if i inlet too deep without the pillars, then couldn't i just put in the pillars and bed them to the stock, solving my inlet error? </div></div>

Yes.

I like this idea better.

 

[Glen Seekins]

Re: maybe im an idiot---pillar bedding

You have a bedding block in your stock, so you do not need to use the pillars.
You DO need to inlet your stock so the distance is the same as if you were to use the pillars. This is very easy to do on a manual milling machine.

Here is how i set mine up to inlet.

Flip the stock belly up and set the stock (action inlet) on a piece of round bar, upside down. Its best if the bar is the same diameter of your action.

The round bar will sit flat on the table or vise.

Hold your stock down, clamp in a vise or however you want. make sure it is straight in the X axis and parallel in the Y plane so you dont cut crooked.

The top of the round bar that your stock is sitting on will be your new Z zero.

Inlet the stock within .02-.05" everywhere just to remove most of the material. Then I cut the front to depth, measure and take a finish pass. You can measure with a depth gauge or calipers if you are good, to the top of the bar your stock is setting on. Then i cut the rear to depth. I finish the inlet perimeter and cut the mag well area thru to the bottom of the bar that the stock is sitting on.

 

[Slinky001]

Re: maybe im an idiot---pillar bedding

armymedic.2

where are you located in New York?

I have a mill and if you need help fitting the bottom metal, I would be glad to give you a hand if you needed. Not sure how close you are to Syracuse though!

Brian

 

[armymedic.2]

Re: maybe im an idiot---pillar bedding

awesome guys! thank you for all the ideas and the offer slinky!

i am in ghent, about a half hour south of albany. little far.........but i do host a competitive shoot every year from 100 out to 950 yards, 20 round course just for the guys on the farm and a few buddies. a mover or two and hostage scenarios, down to just ringing steel way out there. should i keep you in mind this spring?
will post tonight when finished....

 

[Badshot308]

Re: maybe im an idiot---pillar bedding

To get it to show, type [image] in front of the http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/armymedic2/armysign.png and [image/] after and it looks like this

 

[Slinky001]

Re: maybe im an idiot---pillar bedding

Sounds fun! Shoot me a pm when you come up with a date and I will see if it will fit into my schedule.

Thanks for the offer!

Brian

 

[armymedic.2]

Re: maybe im an idiot---pillar bedding

badshot, finally got it working! thanks.

and.............. The bottom metal fits perfect and shoots like a champ! i was able to use the pillars i already had in the stock, so the ones that came with it will be spares. The hardest part was getting the box to rest solely on the pillars, lots of fit checking!

So for all of you looking to do this yourselves without a mill-

If your stock is all plastic have at it. you will have fun, learn about your rifle and be done in an hour or two. If your stock was like mine, be advised you will be removing a ton of metal, which is really hard to do accurately with hand tools. i got it done, but because of the metal i ended up leaving with inlets larger than need be. the good news is it is stricly aesthetic and will be a non issue once i do some body work while i am skim bedding with marine tex and painting the rifle.

if you don't have a drill press, hand files, and a lot of experience using them (building bows/true woodworking) don't attempt it. i have these and it took five hours to get her done perfect. i sure did learn a lot though, and i saved $100 and a week without my baby.


Thanks to all who contributed! you guys really helped me out.

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: maybe im an idiot---pillar bedding

I've done two pillar installations, fabbed the pillars from drilled-out 1" steel round stock. Without precision equipment (which I don't have) it's fine to err on the long side. Being a few thou long still assures metal-to-metal contact between the action and receiver (which is the purpose), without affecting any of the "mechanics" of the rifle.

Being "short" on the pillars, and allowing stock-instead of pillar-contact, renders them useless.