Just wanted to give everyone the heads up on Maytag and there HAVC products. Stay the hell away from them. In 2006 I purchased a heat pump from them . For the last three years it has been nothing but problems. The same unit came with a 10 year parts and labor warranty. Nordyn who owns Maytag informed me today that they would no longer honor there warranty on the product. If your in the market for a new home or buying a pre owned home and they have Maytag HAVC ... BY ALL MEANS HAVE THEM REPLACED BEFORE BUYING.....The last three years have been a learning curve and from my research and attorney I've learned that this is A PROBLEM ACROSS THE U.S.
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If this was sarcasm it went over my head.
Nothing runs like a Deere
It's hard to stop a Trane
Nothing stops like a Trane
Nothing Scarier than a Carrier
And Nothing Hurts like a Rheem
OP Nordyne Markets under many brands. Maytag, Westinghouse, Tappan and Frigidaire. To name a few. Folks would be well advised to stay away from them in my honest opinion.
The three above brands of which I jested are actually pretty solid units. I prefer Carrier I think they are the best.
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Maytag had a factory in a town about 45 min south of me, biggest employer in the town I think. Packed up and moved to Mexico. I'll never buy another Maytag product. I don't have a problem with a company moving, but moving to a country that is causing us so much grief? No thanks.
Another +1 on the installer! I did construction management for NYC DEP in upstate ny, and the worst problems we had were with HVAC contractors. Took years to get systems running right, and threats of default. Of course these systems were over complicated, but check around town or get references.
Good advice the quality and experience of the installer is as much or more critical than the brand. Shell out the few bucks for Angies list it will be money well spent. Concentrate on those with the higher number of reviews. This will give you a much better sampling of the company's ethics. When they complete the install if it looks like shit, it probably is.
Also see if your jurisdiction requires permits before you find the installer. If permits are required don't try to buck the system. If the contractor has a problem with wanting to pull the permit, there is a good chance they don't intend on doing the job correctly.
Most are now Limited Warranties. The manufacturer can deny the warranty due to improper installation or maintenance procedures. It is rare that the big boys ever deny anything. They back their product well. But there are some like above who will deny them. One last thing most manu's offer 10 year parts. But you only get five if you don't register the unit online. Don't forget because the second five years are when you are most likely to need the warranty.
For the Record I am an HVAC Contractor.
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No, you're right--I totally had an early senior moment, so color me stupid.
I stand by my claim about the Trane HVACs, though; I've been very happy with mine.
I am a HVAC contractor and I would not put a Trane in my mother in laws house. Even if it was free.
Well that's a crying shame cause I've got three 18 seer Trane(wreck) units to which she would have been welcome. A good summer is only one unit going down (6 good summers and 3 bad(this summer's just started and one's crapped out)) . This is actual experience, not hyperbole and true EVERY summer since spending 14K new in 2004.
Several years ago I was considering adding the brand to my inventory. I installed about 10 of them. Every one of them cost me money within the first year on warranty problems. None related to installation. All were faulty parts or leaking coils. I figured I could make nothing sitting on the couch doing nothing but it was better than working and losing money. My BIL wanted to have an 18 SEER installed in his house and I refused and gave him all the reasons. He said he did all the research and that is what he wanted. He had another company to install it. He regretted that day. Any utility savings he may have seen were lost in the first winter with 2 breakdowns and unit ran on the supplemental heaters. A couple $400 electric bills and he was cursing the day he said the word Trane. I loved telling him I told you so.
A Carrier product. There are only a couple of manufacturers of HVAC equipment and they have several sub names. Carrier, Bryant, Heil etc.... all are the same. The Carrier corp has given certain promises to the dealers of different names. If I wanted to be a Bryant dealer I would have to agree to buy a set dollar amount of equipment a year to grant me a no compete area. If I were to buy a 100k a year then I would get a 50 mile radius type thing. Same for the Carrier.
I would stay clear of anything over 15 SEER rating. Some of the technology is not really proven yet. Yeah it can work in the labs but in the real world with unreliable and unsteady electric service, not so much. With the Feds and all the new regulations on efficiency and refrigerants the industry is scrambling. The newest regulation being a minimum efficiency standard. This will take place Jan. 1st. You will not be able to buy a 13 SEER system. 14 will be the new base. The last increase was only a couple years ago to the 13 base. When that went into effect the law/ regulation was that the manufacture could not produce any equipment after a certain date. So there was a smooth transition. Some companies ramped up production towards the end of the year but eventually the transition was done. This time the Feds have said no equipment will be sold after Jan 1. Which means that the regulation will start to take place sometime this fall. I think the manufacturers will not want to get stuck with stock on hand so they will shut down production sooner.MY OPINION.
The last analysis I checked in my region was that the difference between a 13 and a 15 SEER unit was about an 8 (eight) year payback to the consumer. The Feds should get the hell off the backs of HVAC industry. It has caused such a dramatic increase in cost that the normal Joe will soon no longer be able to afford it. Most of the systems will have a blower motor that cost over $1000 in them, yes one thousand dollars. that is for one part.
Any way. My advice is to do some research on the brand you want and the dealer. Fuck Angies list!!! Go to BBB and have your contractor give you at least a dozen of his most recent customers that had new installs done. Contact them and see if they are satisfied with how the job was done and if they got what was promised. I personally do not advertise and haven't for many years. No names on trucks, no billboards, no yellow page ads. All my work comes from reputation and word of mouth. I tell my customers I may not be the cheapest but you do not get good and cheap together. Those two things just don't go hand in hand.
EDIT: Stay away from any warranty that is not directly from the manufacturer. This is usually dealing with the labor portion of the warranty. Most labor warranties are outside companies and not the manufacturer. Sometimes the manufacturer contracts a warranty insurer. I have yet to see any of these warranty companies last. Most of the time they are bankrupt and your warranty is toilet paper. I do not sell them because my reputation is at stake. I tell the customers up front when they say X company offered a 10 year labor warranty what the deal really is. I have been in business for 20 years and seen many of them come and go. Early on I sold them and learned that all I was selling was bad for the customer and me. When I didn't make a dime of the warranty and the customer doesn't expect to pay for a repair. It's not good when I tell them sorry that company went bankrupt. I usually did the repair at my cost because that was good business. I have survived because I believe one happy customer will tell two people. One pissed customer will tell a dozen or more. But my disclaimer is Jesus Christ could not make everyone happy. Some people can't be pleased.
I would stay clear of anything over 15 SEER rating. Some of the technology is not really proven yet. Yeah it can work in the labs but in the real world with unreliable and unsteady electric service, not so much. With the Feds and all the new regulations on efficiency and refrigerants the industry is scrambling. The newest regulation being a minimum efficiency standard. This will take place Jan. 1st. You will not be able to buy a 13 SEER system. 14 will be the new base. The last increase was only a couple years ago to the 13 base. When that went into effect the law/ regulation was that the manufacture could not produce any equipment after a certain date. So there was a smooth transition. Some companies ramped up production towards the end of the year but eventually the transition was done. This time the Feds have said no equipment will be sold after Jan 1. Which means that the regulation will start to take place sometime this fall. I think the manufacturers will not want to get stuck with stock on hand so they will shut down production sooner.MY OPINION.
The last analysis I checked in my region was that the difference between a 13 and a 15 SEER unit was about an 8 (eight) year payback to the consumer. The Feds should get the hell off the backs of HVAC industry. It has caused such a dramatic increase in cost that the normal Joe will soon no longer be able to afford it. Most of the systems will have a blower motor that cost over $1000 in them, yes one thousand dollars. that is for one part.
Any way. My advice is to do some research on the brand you want and the dealer. Fuck Angies list!!! Go to BBB and have your contractor give you at least a dozen of his most recent customers that had new installs done. Contact them and see if they are satisfied with how the job was done and if they got what was promised. I personally do not advertise and haven't for many years. No names on trucks, no billboards, no yellow page ads. All my work comes from reputation and word of mouth. I tell my customers I may not be the cheapest but you do not get good and cheap together. Those two things just don't go hand in hand.
EDIT: Stay away from any warranty that is not directly from the manufacturer. This is usually dealing with the labor portion of the warranty. Most labor warranties are outside companies and not the manufacturer. Sometimes the manufacturer contracts a warranty insurer. I have yet to see any of these warranty companies last. Most of the time they are bankrupt and your warranty is toilet paper. I do not sell them because my reputation is at stake. I tell the customers up front when they say X company offered a 10 year labor warranty what the deal really is. I have been in business for 20 years and seen many of them come and go. Early on I sold them and learned that all I was selling was bad for the customer and me. When I didn't make a dime of the warranty and the customer doesn't expect to pay for a repair. It's not good when I tell them sorry that company went bankrupt. I usually did the repair at my cost because that was good business. I have survived because I believe one happy customer will tell two people. One pissed customer will tell a dozen or more. But my disclaimer is Jesus Christ could not make everyone happy. Some people can't be pleased.
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Trane has had their problems. Ever since they were bought by Ingersol Rand they have been in decline. I must say I disagree with your opinion on efficiency though. I would not buy anything less than 16 seer. And Angie's list is way more effective than the BBB. JMHO
It is nice to see another Carrier lover though. The Carrier 24ACB7 condenser is a great bargain for the money. No circuit board all mechanical a great unit no doubt.
ECM blower motors are pricey but they do have benefits. The ten year warranty will cover that part. And they don't build them like they used too. You won't see too many modern units go 30 years like in the past.
It is nice to see another Carrier lover though. The Carrier 24ACB7 condenser is a great bargain for the money. No circuit board all mechanical a great unit no doubt.
ECM blower motors are pricey but they do have benefits. The ten year warranty will cover that part. And they don't build them like they used too. You won't see too many modern units go 30 years like in the past.
I've been in the hvac trade for 24 years. I sell Lennox and carrier. I believe these are the best on the market but honestly I am a believer that the installer is the most important part of the equation. It doesn't matter what name brand you have as long as it is installed correctly. Most of them will perform perfectly for many years. 99% of early failures that I seen in the field have installation issues. Do your research on the contractor as well as the equiptment and you should be able to get many years of solid performance. Also as like anything else the cheapest price is not always the way to go. Do your homework and deal with a solid company that will stand behind you if you have an issue.
Well said.
Interesting coming across this thread as I just had PSE&G (Public Service Electric & Gas) here to look at replacing my heating system. They install, service, guarantee only York systems. For my little home (cape cod) which is about 1000 sq. ft a total system would be 9k. That would be heater, humidifier, filtering system, & all labor cost. In Jersey by code Inwould need a flu liner. I know, good luck finding someone to do that.
Maxwell
Maxwell
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Guest
Guest
I like Water Furnace.
It's HVAC.
It's HVAC.
I have a Rheem at the house and a Trane in my shop office. No complaints with either
Update:
Breaker being thrown (June 9th) found to be from a failing 2nd stage compressor(July 2nd). Recommended remedy was replacement of both hi and lo compressors. Both were replaced (Aug 2nd) only to now have a cyclical 'tornado warning' high-pitched howl sounding through the night from the low stage. Just had the new low replaced with a new new low stage today. Yea buddy, lovin' them Tranes!
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