Yes, generally all air shows have an air boss.
- Thread starter TexPatriot
- Start date
B-17 Pilots were recently retired American Airlines living in DFW Metroplex.
P-63 Pilot was United Airlines 777 pilot.
Possibly 2 other retired American Airlines pilots were riding in B-17.
P-63 was attempting to stay in trail with other fighters that had passed by the B-17.
It appears the P-63 pilot was focused on the other fighters and was belly up to B-17 (blind spot)
P-63 Pilot was United Airlines 777 pilot.
Possibly 2 other retired American Airlines pilots were riding in B-17.
P-63 was attempting to stay in trail with other fighters that had passed by the B-17.
It appears the P-63 pilot was focused on the other fighters and was belly up to B-17 (blind spot)
View from the cockpit of a P-63. Not a lot of view beneath it, especially if you're trying to bank hard.
They do have, and they also practice and practice formation flying, and are assigned certain air levels for each type of craft. If you ever see their Tora Tora Tora program, while it seems chaotic, it is really choreographed. I am guessing this is the segment that depicts the European Air War, and someone was out of place, either the B17 or the Smaller plane, who was at the edge and end of his group. the small plane didn't see the 17, and the 17 never saw it coming (except possibly, the L waist gunner position).
I live near Eglin, Jets in the sky is a nearly every day thing. About 10 years ago when they were discussing bringing the F35 here for testing a small group of people people in the surrounding areas were literally protesting it because of the noise. These dumbass literally moved into the pattern of one of the worlds largest Air Force bases, then complain about the noise.
Idiots!
Thats the same shit that will build near a shooting range, knowing there's a range there, then once they move in complain about it, always getting the Leftist news stations involved to come out and do a story showing where little Colton and Kennedy play in the yard and are now in danger of being struck by a stray bullet.
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I hate to get this off subject. Sorry to see what happened.
Long story short. Does not surprise me. Good family friend owned a small salvage yard for years. It was pretty clean for a salvage yard. Lady built a house less than a 100 yards from it then complained about it. Not soon after the county made him close it.
Even the pit has some boundaries
I took several flights in the B-17 and B-29 several years ago when they were in Lewiston, changed seating positions each time. I have pics and video...they do not even come close to capturing the real life experience. Go for a ride.
Im watching an WWII air combat movie now. What got me is the gunners firing at Germans were firing right at other bombers. I wonder how many friendly fire we lost?
Colorado Springs has the same problem with them big azz skeeters. I’m sorry you have to go through that.
That may be where they were headed. Witnesses reported seeing them from San Antonio, up IH35, flying low over my mom's house on Lake Austin and then North Texas.Colorado Springs has the same problem with them big azz skeeters. I’m sorry you have to go through that.
I was amazed how nimble C-130s are. That was about the 4th one in a line and they all banked and did hard right turns about 400m off the back deck. In the first pic you can see one about half a mile to the east heading towards me and it will then pull a hard 90 and head north.
I can see why they'd make excellent gunships with their ability to hold tight circles and loiter over an area.
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I saw one in Reno at the air races one year take off with JATOs attached. Pilot couldn’t keep it from rolling. He released the brakes, and that thing rolled about 10 feet before it came off the ground. Once it cleared the runway, it climbed like a homesick angel. Good Stuff!! 
this was not an accident, this was a fuck stick in a hot rod not paying attention and it cost everyone there lives as well as two war birds that can’t be replaced…….
situational awareness or lack there of will kill you……Mr. P-63 lost it…
situational awareness or lack there of will kill you……Mr. P-63 lost it…
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My uncle was B-17 ball turret gunner in WWII over Germany. He said they stuffed the small guys in there. He was 5'5". He did around a dozen flights over there and somehow survived as he was "the target" on the plane.
Came home and became chemistry professor lived a good life and died of cancer in his late 50's. Still crazy to me this day you can survive WWII in that fashion and that's how you go out.
Came home and became chemistry professor lived a good life and died of cancer in his late 50's. Still crazy to me this day you can survive WWII in that fashion and that's how you go out.
I live a few minutes from the hangar they keep it in and have been planning on taking a ride in it this coming season. my Conroe PD buddy knew the guys personally. Heartbreaking
I recognize the guy in the middle from a couple of my AA flights out of DFW that he piloted. Sad deal
The wife and I were on I-35 E Saturday on our way to visit my sis and BIL in Farmer's Branch and were just coming into Dallas when I saw the formation and said to the wife "that's a B-17 and some fighters, must be a Veteran's day airshow". Was a cool sight.
Saw the news the next day and was so saddened, what a tragedy.
Prayers to the families of the lost airmen.
Saw the news the next day and was so saddened, what a tragedy.
Prayers to the families of the lost airmen.
This sucks. The aircraft were cool, but the real loss is the men.
Everyone naturally defaults to “why”. Investigation will find the specifics, some of which will inevitably follow the Swiss cheese model of several small things lining up in just such a way that leads to this mishap.
One of those factors often involves human decision(s), unsurprisingly, as humans are piloting and controlling (ATC) the aircraft.
Yes, the standard is the overtaking (faster) aircraft assumes deconfliction responsibilities. That doesn’t mean the mishap was negligent. The collision bearing in this case happen to be the exact combination of speed and heading of the B-17… keeping it perfectly hidden under the P-63’s belly.
Think of this place as the blind spot in your car… but in 3 dimensions and a much faster pace. Belly checks are a common part of fast mover SOP, particularly in areas of merging traffic (arrival points, airfields) for this reason. They do, however, require you to roll out of your turn… however briefly, and divert your view, etc. Doing so while attempting to chase down another fighter (small, hard to see…particularly from 6 o’clock) is difficult.
And who knows what else was going on… which is what the Swiss cheese model means. The timing (or altitude) of the other aircraft could’ve been off (meaning they weren’t where they were expected to be), etc.
Prayers to their family and friends. These were productive Americans with a sense of purpose and adventure. God knows we can never have too many like them.
Everyone naturally defaults to “why”. Investigation will find the specifics, some of which will inevitably follow the Swiss cheese model of several small things lining up in just such a way that leads to this mishap.
One of those factors often involves human decision(s), unsurprisingly, as humans are piloting and controlling (ATC) the aircraft.
Yes, the standard is the overtaking (faster) aircraft assumes deconfliction responsibilities. That doesn’t mean the mishap was negligent. The collision bearing in this case happen to be the exact combination of speed and heading of the B-17… keeping it perfectly hidden under the P-63’s belly.
Think of this place as the blind spot in your car… but in 3 dimensions and a much faster pace. Belly checks are a common part of fast mover SOP, particularly in areas of merging traffic (arrival points, airfields) for this reason. They do, however, require you to roll out of your turn… however briefly, and divert your view, etc. Doing so while attempting to chase down another fighter (small, hard to see…particularly from 6 o’clock) is difficult.
And who knows what else was going on… which is what the Swiss cheese model means. The timing (or altitude) of the other aircraft could’ve been off (meaning they weren’t where they were expected to be), etc.
Prayers to their family and friends. These were productive Americans with a sense of purpose and adventure. God knows we can never have too many like them.
my inlaws are heavy into aviation
formation, acrobatic competitions, they own and rent a few hangers ...you name it they are involved in it for 50 years if not more
one thing they all agree on;
almost all airline pilots as shitty private pilots and they all think they are the ace of the base
their planes are always in poor shape
the war bird guys aircraft are usually held together with bubble gum and tape
my father in law actually wont go up in a war bird because hes in the know
he went took up a friends p-51 1-2 times many years ago and wont go again. it was the same friend who crashed off long island 5-10 years ago in a p-40.
when i went up in a b-17 about 10 years ago he told me "dont do that again"...but he never told me to stop skydiving
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I'm a student pilot. I'll see if I can get a report when posted the minute you start flying, legally that is you tend to get all FAA accident reports emailed to you or have the ability to find them more so people can learn what not to do. From what I heard someone say the P63 was supposed to roll in on the other side almost like to make it look cool. Clearly cut it wrong. Either way he shouldn't have pulled the maneuver without knowing where the 17 was. Even when we do normal boring s turns and stuff we have to do clearing turns first bank left and right to scan the skies to make sure nothing is around above or under us.
Horrible to watch.. RIP Aviators
@brianf your inlaws are telling you some truths but not completely. Also after 50 years they are likely pretty jaded and also think they are the aces of the base.
I'm an airline pilot, my mooney is a POS, but I definitely am the best pilot at the airfield
@brianf your inlaws are telling you some truths but not completely. Also after 50 years they are likely pretty jaded and also think they are the aces of the base.
I'm an airline pilot, my mooney is a POS, but I definitely am the best pilot at the airfield
What a sad loss of life! Prayers for the Families! RIP
Your most likely correct…they suck anyway lolHorrible to watch.. RIP Aviators
@brianf your inlaws are telling you some truths but not completely. Also after 50 years they are likely pretty jaded and also think they are the aces of the base.
I'm an airline pilot, my mooney is a POS, but I definitely am the best pilot at the airfield
This guy has done a whole series since the tragedy. Watched this on Monday and while it is only covering a preliminary report, it has some good info/explanation of potential root cause.
Sirhr
Sirhr
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