Sidearms & Scatterguns Midrange 9mm/.45 handguns

300zx_tt

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Hey all,

I’ve just started my search for what I’d consider a “midrange” (in terms of price) handgun. I’m thinking about picking up a Staccato P. My local shop has them for $1999. I’m thinking there may be some other options that I’m missing. I want a solid shooter that’s got a good fit and finish. Want to stick with 9mm or .45 acp.

The hand guns I typically buy, with the exception of revolvers, are polymer frame striker fired and under the $1,000 mark.

CZ TSO
Les Baer 1911
Dan Wesson 1911
Browning hi power
Cheap nighthawk

Anybody have anything else I forgot? Other suggestions? Info on the Staccato?
 

264win

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    I would do this as well^
    For a shooter, it’s hard to beat the staccato without doubling your budget.
     

    Gustav7

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    I'll throw a vote in for the CZ, although I doubt you could go wrong with the Staccato either. My plain Shadow 2 is an absolute joy to shoot, so I can imagine the SA TSO is even better. It feels just perfect in the hand.
    I'd love to have another in SA only, especially if its been worked over by Cajun Gunworks.
     

    ubet

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    look for a used Wilson combat 1911, if you don’t want to go new. They’re worth every penny. If not I’d go with the Dan Wesson.
     

    Asiparks

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    fun gun or carry gun or a bit of both ?
    As far as 1911's I've have/have had DW, Baer, Nighthawk, Wilson, etc- the effective differences between them are minuscule-buy a pre owned version of whichever looks most appealing from the classifieds on 1911addicts and save yourself a chunk of money if you're going that way.

    Big fan of the Browning, it's my EDC, but it's had a ton of trigger work done- that's from the time when you could pick up a used Novaks or Williams one for $1300. If you can score the Springfield version for $699 MSRP then get one, just because. They've taken out the mag safety and re-profiled the hammer, so that's two of the main BHP issues sorted.

    I wanted a TSO, ended up getting a deal on a used Shadow2 instead, it is the absolute tits at the range, madly accurate and easy to shoot, but it is a heavy bastard to tote around.

    Don't have a Staccato, but shot a friends on a few occasions- it was nice, but it didn't blow my skirt up- I'd take the Shadow or BHP first.
     
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    308pirate

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    Hey all,

    I’ve just started my search for what I’d consider a “midrange” (in terms of price) handgun. I’m thinking about picking up a Staccato P. My local shop has them for $1999. I’m thinking there may be some other options that I’m missing. I want a solid shooter that’s got a good fit and finish. Want to stick with 9mm or .45 acp.

    The hand guns I typically buy, with the exception of revolvers, are polymer frame striker fired and under the $1,000 mark.

    CZ TSO
    Les Baer 1911
    Dan Wesson 1911
    Browning hi power
    Cheap nighthawk

    Anybody have anything else I forgot? Other suggestions? Info on the Staccato?

    What do you want this pistol for?

    Personally, I don't do single action so none of the above.
     

    300zx_tt

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    When the fuck did $2,000 become "mid-range" for a handgun??? Did I wakeup in Bizzarro World?

    Mid-range used to be like $750-1,000...And that was for H&K's.
    I didn’t really know what to call it, I figured midrange worked well. There are models of each gun I listed in the 3-5k range and I dont want to drop that much on a pistol.

    I didn’t want to get a bunch of recommendations for stuff that was out of my budget. If I said looking for a high end pistol people would recommend custom made race guns for $6500 and $7000 custom 1911’s. That’s just how this site works
     

    300zx_tt

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    What do you want this pistol for?

    Personally, I don't do single action so none of the above.
    It’ll mostly be a range toy/ piece to start elevating my collection. I like cool/ different stuff. But also want it to shoot, and shoot well.

    I’ve probably come close to my peak with the under $1000 polymer gun. I’m confident in my ability with everything I own.

    Started looking for the next level of handgun, maybe a little bit race inspired, possibly something that I could do some competing with. Found the Staccato P and got hands on it. Felt great, looks awesome, clearly a decently made weapon. I like to consider all options, so I branched off and started looking at mid-high end 1911’s nighthawks and les baer’s and such and realized I could pick up something like that as well.
     

    HousePlant

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    I would say the Beretta 92X considering I shot it to 100 yards and actually hit a 11x17 target a bunch of times.

    But... I also had to replace the ejector after its first IDPA match. :rolleyes:
     

    308pirate

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    I’ve probably come close to my peak with the under $1000 polymer gun. Started looking for the next level of handgun, maybe a little bit race inspired, possibly something that I could do some competing with.

    So please correct me if my assumptions are incorrect.

    Reading between the lines, here's what I see......
    • You've either never participated in any practical handgun sport, or you have but only dabbled in it a few times
    • You seem to be under the impression that a high $ single action pistol is needed to compete, or to do well in competition
    If your main reason for buying this pistol is to plink and/or shoot drills and practical pistol shooting is something that you have only a marginal interest in, then I can't help you because those aren't activities I focus on and because none of the pistols on your list are something that would interest me. I'm not a collector and my focus is about 85% on skill building and practice directed towards getting better at practical pistol shooting and about 15% on hardware.

    If practical pistol shooting is something that you want to pursue with a hard focus, then you don't need any of the pistols on the list because you most likely have something already that is perfectly suitable in one of the sport's equipment divisions. Also, for most of your journey in the sport the overwhelming majority of your gains won't come from your pistol's accuracy or from how fast you can split that sweet sub 2 lb trigger.

    Sorry that I can't help you choose from the list. But if you're interested in practical pistol competition, give me a shout privately.
     

    308pirate

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    I would say the Beretta 92X considering I shot it to 100 yards and actually hit a 11x17 target a bunch of times.

    But... I also had to replace the ejector after its first IDPA match. :rolleyes:

    I wouldn't make a decision pro or against that pistol (or anything else) based on a sample of one.

    I know people who think Trijicon SROs are pieces of shit because they had one break. I have two of them, and the oldest not only has close to 8K rounds by now it also has gone flying (along with the pistol it was on) and landed hard on rock gravel at a match without even losing zero.
     

    HousePlant

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    I wouldn't make a decision pro or against that pistol (or anything else) based on a sample of one.

    I know people who think Trijicon SROs are pieces of shit because they had one break. I have two of them, and the oldest not only has close to 8K rounds by now it also has gone flying (along with the pistol it was on) and landed hard on rock gravel at a match without even losing zero.

    You're right. But I learned about Beretta's customer service and... yikes.
     

    308pirate

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    You're right. But I learned about Beretta's customer service and... yikes.

    Use the factory-authorized service centers. Let them deal with the mothership if that's needed. Most of the time they can fix your gun/sell you the parts you need with no hassle.


    BTW don't believe the leadtimes that Beretta assumes their service centers are offering. Call directly and ask.
     

    CK1.0

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    Try to find an “old” STI 1911 from the 2000’s (Trojan, Sentry, etc), for the money, nothing touches them.

    Or, get yourself a CZ Shadow if you don’t already have one, which variant almost doesn’t matter, they’re all awesome. Everyone should try a Shadow if they haven’t already IMHO.

    If you’re handy, a Beretta 92 with the Wilson trigger kit, “D” spring (makes it so the gun goes to decock automatically and keeps you from accidentally putting it on safe when you rack it), and a set of G10 grips and you’ll have a good one for low dollars spent. (I never recommend overpaying and buying one from Wilson done up already… the mods aren’t the easiest, but they’re not real hard either, an annoying 30 minutes will save $$$ and give you a better understanding of how their clockwork works).
     
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    300zx_tt

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    So please correct me if my assumptions are incorrect.

    Reading between the lines, here's what I see......
    • You've either never participated in any practical handgun sport, or you have but only dabbled in it a few times
    • You seem to be under the impression that a high $ single action pistol is needed to compete, or to do well in competition
    If your main reason for buying this pistol is to plink and/or shoot drills and practical pistol shooting is something that you have only a marginal interest in, then I can't help you because those aren't activities I focus on and because none of the pistols on your list are something that would interest me. I'm not a collector and my focus is about 85% on skill building and practice directed towards getting better at practical pistol shooting and about 15% on hardware.

    If practical pistol shooting is something that you want to pursue with a hard focus, then you don't need any of the pistols on the list because you most likely have something already that is perfectly suitable in one of the sport's equipment divisions. Also, for most of your journey in the sport the overwhelming majority of your gains won't come from your pistol's accuracy or from how fast you can split that sweet sub 2 lb trigger.

    Sorry that I can't help you choose from the list. But if you're interested in practical pistol competition, give me a shout privately.
    I have never competed, but it’s something that’s peaked a little bit (for now) of my interest. I have several guns that I could absolutely compete with, Vp9, glock 17, and glock 34, sig p320, FNX. The list could go on. I have no idea what you can/can’t use in certain factions of competition. But I have 1,000’s of rounds through each of these, with the exception of the 320. I’m proficient with all of them and I’m confident I could shoot any of them well.

    The staccato seemed like a nice mix between a gun that could be brought to the range for fun and a gun that you could run hard and shoot fast. As for elevating my “collection” I’m of the mindset that guns are for shooting, and if you don’t shoot them, what’s the point. I’ve probably put more rounds through my 6” nickel Python than some people put through their gp100’s. So I’m not a typical collector in that sense. I do however appreciate a quality firearm like most of the guys here. There’s a reason a large portion of us buy tikka’s over a savage.

    I just thought I was ready to take a step up a notch in refinement, not necessarily because I think it’ll make me shoot better or I need it to compete, I know that’s not true.

    I’ll do some looking into the sport and pm you if I have questions. Appreciate the offer!
     

    308pirate

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    I have never competed, but it’s something that’s peaked a little bit (for now) of my interest. I have several guns that I could absolutely compete with, Vp9, glock 17, and glock 34, sig p320, FNX. The list could go on. I have no idea what you can/can’t use in certain factions of competition. But I have 1,000’s of rounds through each of these, with the exception of the 320. I’m proficient with all of them and I’m confident I could shoot any of them well.

    The staccato seemed like a nice mix between a gun that could be brought to the range for fun and a gun that you could run hard and shoot fast. As for elevating my “collection” I’m of the mindset that guns are for shooting, and if you don’t shoot them, what’s the point. I’ve probably put more rounds through my 6” nickel Python than some people put through their gp100’s. So I’m not a typical collector in that sense. I do however appreciate a quality firearm like most of the guys here. There’s a reason a large portion of us buy tikka’s over a savage.

    I just thought I was ready to take a step up a notch in refinement, not necessarily because I think it’ll make me shoot better or I need it to compete, I know that’s not true.

    I’ll do some looking into the sport and pm you if I have questions. Appreciate the offer!

    For now all I will say is this. If you want to eventually use any of the pistols on your list for practical pistol competition (meaning USPSA), don't buy the Highpower and don't buy any of the others in 9X19.
     

    Clayman

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    Hey all,

    I’ve just started my search for what I’d consider a “midrange” (in terms of price) handgun. I’m thinking about picking up a Staccato P. My local shop has them for $1999. I’m thinking there may be some other options that I’m missing. I want a solid shooter that’s got a good fit and finish. Want to stick with 9mm or .45 acp.

    The hand guns I typically buy, with the exception of revolvers, are polymer frame striker fired and under the $1,000 mark.

    CZ TSO
    Les Baer 1911
    Dan Wesson 1911
    Browning hi power
    Cheap nighthawk

    Anybody have anything else I forgot? Other suggestions? Info on the Staccato?

    CZ TSO, Shadow 2, TS2, etc.

    Mags are relatively cheap, don't have to worry about tuning, triggers are fantastic, they are just fantastic pistols that run.
     
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    houndog

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    Can't give you any help on the Staccato. Never owned one, never shot one. I do own a semi-custom 1911 in 9mm (Alchemy). If you are looking for accuracy, a great trigger and outstanding accuracy and top notch fit and finish and are ok with a traditional 1911 platform, this option is tough to beat. It will cost you more than $2,000 and I suspect you're probably looking at a 1 year wait, but it will be worth it.

    The other recommendation I can give you based on personal experience is a CZ Shadow 2 or Shadow 2 Orange. I own the Orange version. The trigger is very good, although not in the same class as a semi-custom 1911. The gun will be more accurate than you. And if you're looking for a production gun you can "run hard and shoot fast" this is an option you should be seriously considering. The weight and high bore of this gun makes it about as fast shooting as any gun out there. With a solid grip and good fundamentals the gun is very fast back on target. And I believe you can compete in the production division of most shooting sports (IDPA, IPSC, Steel Challenge), if you end up going in this direction.*

    *I've been thinking about doing this, but haven't done so yet, so I'm not completely familiar with the various categories in various divisions.
     

    308pirate

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    And I believe you can compete in the production division of most shooting sports (IDPA, IPSC, Steel Challenge), if you end up going in this direction.*

    *I've been thinking about doing this, but haven't done so yet, so I'm not completely familiar with the various categories in various divisions.

    I would suggest then that you don't speculate about which pistol will be usable for which sport.

    You wouldn't believe how many people blow a couple thousand dollars on stuff they can't use in the sport they chose because they read something on the internet that wasn't correct.

    At the end of the day it's that person's fault for not doing their homework, but still.

    I can tell you for a fact that you cannot use a Shadow 2 in IDPA Production division because it's too heavy and division rules don't allow machining for weight reduction.
     

    elwarpo

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    When the fuck did $2,000 become "mid-range" for a handgun??? Did I wakeup in Bizzarro World?

    Mid-range used to be like $750-1,000...And that was for H&K's.
    New glocks are 600 to 800 with tax, decent revolvers are over 1k...2k is the old 1k... welcome to inflation.
     

    FuhQ

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    New glocks are 600 to 800 with tax, decent revolvers are over 1k...2k is the old 1k... welcome to inflation.
    That's one big reason I haven't bought a Glock since 2012...They're reliable, but WAY overpriced for what you get. My last one was my Gen3 G31C .357 Sig. Last REAL handgun I bought was my alpha-run Shield 45 in 2016, and it was $449 and it's been just as reliable as anything else in my safe.
     
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    n2ishun

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    Pfft.
    Get a CZ97 and have it Cajunized with the pro package.
    It don't get no bettah.
     

    Asiparks

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    308Pirate nailed it above- don't spend a ton on a gun, then try to jam it into working for a match or scenario it's not meant for, if getting competitive is on the cards. The BHP is an throwback to old times, but then so am I...
    I wouldn't expect a "mid level" gun to mean a better performing gun, especially in the world of 1911s. You get a bit of nicer finishing and maybe a bit of hand filing here and there, but don't expect eye opening gains in reliability or accuracy or even trigger feel.

    Be nice to people at your range and see if they'll let you try theirs- how one pistol feels/points/shoots better than another is massively subjective, unless it's a real dog. I love shooting my stock Steyr m9 more than many of my other guns- it just works for me- couple of my friends really, really fucking hate it.
    Arseholes.
     

    davsco

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    look on practiscore.com and find some uspsa matches and go spectate one or two. see what folks are using. ask if you can fondle (the guns) after the match, most if not all will let you. this will give you a good taste of what 'good' guns are out there. it's always more the shooter than the gun, but a good gun does help.

    i have a handful of sti 2011's and my bil has a handful of staccato 2011s. they are very nice guns, great ergos, great triggers, etc at what i consider a reasonable price point vs their value and performance. i def shoot them better than my various glocks, but again really good shooters using 'just' glocks or m&p's etc can (and do) kick my ass.

    the staccato p would be most competitive in matches such as 2 & 3 gun where most shoot 9mm with no major power factor limitations and plastic guns and sa/da and sao guns are all in the same division (well, without optics or comps/ports). in uspsa the P is only legal in Limited and Open divisions and in both you'd have a slight scoring handicap with minor power factor ammo. but if just having fun, shoot what you love in the divisions where it's legal and who cares.
     
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    DownhillFromHere

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    I would suggest then that you don't speculate about which pistol will be usable for which sport.

    You wouldn't believe how many people blow a couple thousand dollars on stuff they can't use in the sport they chose because they read something on the internet that wasn't correct.

    At the end of the day it's that person's fault for not doing their homework, but still.

    I can tell you for a fact that you cannot use a Shadow 2 in IDPA Production division because it's too heavy and division rules don't allow machining for weight reduction.
    ^^^^ This. I have a CZ Tactical Sport Orange and love it - but it's a no go for IDPA because it doesn't come close to fitting in the box (or it didn't last time I tried the box a few years ago).

    With that acknowledged, the TSO is a BIG heavy thing whose mags hold 20 rounds of 9mm. It ships with 3 magazines and a variety of springs for tuning (which I've never had a need to use). The SAO trigger breaks at not much more than a pound - normal for this model - and only a nicely-tuned 1911/2011 trigger (in my limited experience) is more crisp & clean. I like the sights and the "dead pedal" thumb rest. And make no mistake - this is a match pistol whose chamber demands SAAMI-spec-sized rounds; it will jam damned tight with slightly oversized reloads that Glock, Sig, Beretta, etc. service pistols would happily digest. Accuracy? I love the fun matches that throw in a bonus target like a 1/2-IPSC at 100 yards; hit it for an "n"-second deduction from elapsed time. Ring it like a bell; a couple of times I've had negative-time scores as a result. And finally, like other CZ75 variants, the slide's rails fit inside the receiver, not outside like most autoloaders... so there's not as much slide to grab onto when your hands are sweaty in the heat of summer.

    Bottom line is, if you want to shoot a specific competition discipline, see what the rules really are before you buy... or, if you really like a specific handgun, go the other way and buy the gun and shoot in competitions that allow it.
     

    diggler1833

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    Hey all,

    I’ve just started my search for what I’d consider a “midrange” (in terms of price) handgun. I’m thinking about picking up a Staccato P. My local shop has them for $1999. I’m thinking there may be some other options that I’m missing. I want a solid shooter that’s got a good fit and finish. Want to stick with 9mm or .45 acp.

    The hand guns I typically buy, with the exception of revolvers, are polymer frame striker fired and under the $1,000 mark.

    CZ TSO
    Les Baer 1911
    Dan Wesson 1911
    Browning hi power
    Cheap nighthawk

    Anybody have anything else I forgot? Other suggestions? Info on the Staccato?


    If it is a fun range gun, I'd be happy with any one of your choices. If you are going to compete with it, then some of the other members have had some valid input.
     

    308pirate

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    ^^^^ This. I have a CZ Tactical Sport Orange and love it - but it's a no go for IDPA because it doesn't come close to fitting in the box (or it didn't last time I tried the box a few years ago).
    It also sucks for USPSA Limited (where it fits the rules) because 9 mm gets scored as minor power factor.
     

    300zx_tt

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    It also sucks for USPSA Limited (where it fits the rules) because 9 mm gets scored as minor power factor.
    So you shoot a light .40 instead of 9mm? Is that why you said earlier don’t buy a 9x19?

    I thought that was weird, I have a few acquaintances that I’ve met that started off with 9mm then went to .40

    I’m so deep into 9mm stuff now I do t think I could switch 😂
     

    The Godfather

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    I’m going to recommend you first show up to a local match with your glock 34. Being an inexpensive gun you can concentrate on the game and not worry about the equipment. I shoot/dry fire for weeks never stripping it down. Dusty mags get reloaded and jammed back into the gun. After a few matches or years you can concentrate/buy for the division that calls to you…limited 40, open 9, carry optic, etc.
     

    308pirate

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    So you shoot a light .40 instead of 9mm? Is that why you said earlier don’t buy a 9x19?

    I thought that was weird, I have a few acquaintances that I’ve met that started off with 9mm then went to .40

    I’m so deep into 9mm stuff now I do t think I could switch 😂

    USPSA has some very specific rules about ammunition power factor and how it affects scoring in the divisions that the pistols on your list all fall under.

    It's not complicated but it's also not something people outside the sport are familiar with. Hit me up on PM if you want to understand how caliber matters.
     

    davsco

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    So you shoot a light .40 instead of 9mm? Is that why you said earlier don’t buy a 9x19?

    I thought that was weird, I have a few acquaintances that I’ve met that started off with 9mm then went to .40

    I’m so deep into 9mm stuff now I do t think I could switch 😂
    9mm minor (most factory ammo) doesn't have a scoring disadvantage in uspsa Production and Carry Optics divisions, but, single action guns (1911, 2011) can't play in those divisions. Pretty much everything (no comp or optic) can play in Limited, but you need 40 major (no lite loads but most factory 40 will make major) to not have a scoring disadvantage.

    if you want a 2011, you could get it in 40 and shoot major in uspsa limited and not be disadvantaged. then you could load minor for 2 & 3 gun etc.

    if you're not planning on shooting a ton of uspsa etc, just get what you want in the caliber you want, and uspsa etc will have a division for it though you may have a competitive or scoring disadvantage.
     
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    Choid

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    I've been shooting 45 my whole life and I can guarantee you that you will shoot 9 better, and more than that, you will get more better because it is cheaper. Now, I don't know the rules to the leagues, but if that were my interest I would listen to @308pirate. He seems to really enjoy these competitions, and if you are enjoying them, you are clearly doing it right.
     

    E. Bryant

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    Fnx t is a damn nice 45. A little cheaper than the staccato.

    I have an FNX-45 Tactical and rather like it, but for some reason my brain simply cannot process a direct comparison to a 2011-style SAO metal pistol.
     

    UpSideDown

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    A tuned CZ TSO is incredibly hard to beat. I played with Sailor's $8,000 Infinity after a match and it was outstanding, but so close in feel to a tuned TSO that I could never justify going from a ~$2,000 that can happily run 30,000+ rounds reliably, to a 2011 style gun where you're recutting sears and you have to clean your magazines every time they touch dirt.

    I wanted a Staccato bad until I played with them. They feel too cheap. The old treebark grips were a lot cooler than the new ones. I've heard of consistent reliability issues with them; they're still a 1911 platform.
     

    300zx_tt

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    USPSA has some very specific rules about ammunition power factor and how it affects scoring in the divisions that the pistols on your list all fall under.

    It's not complicated but it's also not something people outside the sport are familiar with. Hit me up on PM if you want to understand how caliber matters.
    I’ll pm you. I appreciate the offer!
     

    UpSideDown

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    It also sucks for USPSA Limited (where it fits the rules) because 9 mm gets scored as minor power factor.
    .40cal TSO's can be swapped to shoot 9mm by just swapping the barrel and magazine (but not the other way around, you can't swap a factory 9mm TSO to shoot .40 so buy a factory .40 gun if you want the flexibility). If I recall, in Limited class it's 20rds of .40 or 23rds of 9mm in the mag.

    Also, who in their right mind goes from shooting USPSA to shooting IDPA? USPSA is fun. Once you go USPSA, does anyone go back to IDPA?
     
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    300zx_tt

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    I’m going to recommend you first show up to a local match with your glock 34. Being an inexpensive gun you can concentrate on the game and not worry about the equipment. I shoot/dry fire for weeks never stripping it down. Dusty mags get reloaded and jammed back into the gun. After a few matches or years you can concentrate/buy for the division that calls to you…limited 40, open 9, carry optic, etc.
    I’ll end up doing that, once the weather breaks.

    I appreciate the advice!
     

    pineoak

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    If you go Staccato, get one optics ready. The accuracy of the gun + optic will make long range hits much easier.

    I'd say do your local match with your actual carry gun. See what you can do/not do with it.
     

    Ape_Factory

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    LTT Elite. Any issues you deal with Langdon not Beretta. A good chunk less than the Staccato. I swapped in a SilencerCo threaded barrel but it's a laser with the factory or SC barrel.