Gunsmithing Mill purchase question/advice

[Lucky Jack]

We have a full service general gunsmithing shop in Yuma. The shop has been in operation since 1956. I recently started running the shop and we need a new mill...badly. The current mill is a Husky made in 1979.

I was looking at Grizzly mills and personally own a G4003G gunsmithing lathe which I am very happy with.

Here's the package I was thinking about from Grizzly:

Mill

Vise

Dividing Head

Three Jaw

The total with freight comes to: $6,792.80

I looked around for a used mill but was not happy with what I saw. Many of the machines were step belt, nasty and some were stored outside.

The owner handed me an Enco book which I looked at. They have a step belt bridgeport style 9x42 for 4995.00 before shipping. It just didn't seem like a good deal.

Why I posted this here is that I read the threads and see the equipment pictures. I made the final decision to buy my Grizzly lathe once I saw that Terry Cross was using the exact same lathe for years.

Thought, ideas, opinions please.

Thank you.

 

[230grRN]

Re: Mill purchase question/advice

Was the step pulley what you are after? The one you linked to is a step pulley mill.

One thing to consider is getting a step pulley 3 phase mill and wire it through a VFD which will give you a variable speed drive and be your phase converter without spending much $$$.

 

[jrm850]

Re: Mill purchase question/advice


Are you sure that's not a step belt version also? Looks like a classic J head clone.

I have that same dividing head... It works well for some things, but I wouldn't plan on it for live milling 4th axis work. Since the mill is a J head and you can angle the head, I would think about a rotary table instead. Just one opinion

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Horizontal-Vertical-Rotary-Table-Yuasa-Type/G9299

 

[jrm850]

Re: Mill purchase question/advice

If you wanted to try a CNC Mill on a budget you could look at a Tormach PCNC 1100. I bought one a few months ago for the toy lab mainly because of cost and space limitations, but I'm actually pretty impressed with the rigidity. It's 2hp and gives up about 400lbs to the Bridgeport clone but cuts well. I still use the manual some, but head for this one 90% of the time. The build cube is the drawback at 9"y 19x 17z, but it's plenty for most gun work. Just a thought.

 

[Lucky Jack]

Re: Mill purchase question/advice

With the money the owner wants to spend there's no way I'll be able to spend over 7,000. I'm probably pushing it with this set up. Just to give you an idea of my budget restraints: I have a better lathe at home than we do in the shop. We're jammed in a 40x20 room with no dirty room. I brought in my own work bench because the one's here just wouldn't work for me. Bluing tanks outside in a container (which is not a problem) and the bead blaster outside under the stairs. In spite of all that it's a high volume shop and the two of us are always busy.

I had the same dividing head and three jaw at the shop I ran in Louisiana and liked it for muzzle brakes and jobs like that. I thought about a rotary table but decided on trying to sell this for the time being. Then adding one.

80% of what we do for 9 months out of the year is strictly repair. The gunshop has been here for over 50 years but the gunsmithing shop has never made a profit. The gun store and range are very profitable. The shop has had a couple premadonnas and hacks as gunsmiths. This is the second time I've followed behind one of them so at least I know what his limitations are. I've spent a lot of time redoing and undoing jobs that the other guys did before I was hired.

The mill we have now is in rough condition and needs to be retired to the land of old mills. I've never had to buy one so I'm a little wary of hearing "this is the one YOU wanted."

Below is what I'm dealing with.

Thanks for the replies so far.

 

[Lucky Jack]

Re: Mill purchase question/advice

I looked at that exact Tormach model and mentioned it to the boss...

I'm glad you posted that picture. I watched a you tube video on the 770 the other day which is smaller but can be taken down and moved easily. I've been moving around for the last three years and have had to pack my home shop and lathe up three times. I made a dolly system for my lathe and have used it to set up in a room in the house when I didn't have a garage.

Would your 1100 be pretty easy to move?

 

[jrm850]

Re: Mill purchase question/advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lucky Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I looked at that exact Tormach model and mentioned it to the boss...

I'm glad you posted that picture. I watched a you tube video on the 770 the other day which is smaller but can be taken down and moved easily. I've been moving around for the last three years and have had to pack my home shop and lathe up three times. I made a dolly system for my lathe and have used it to set up in a room in the house when I didn't have a garage.

Would your 1100 be pretty easy to move?
</div></div>

I used a gantry to put it on the stand, but once it was assembled I moved it into place with a pallet jack. The whole assembly weighs about 1800lbs so it's pretty portable.

 

[Papagrizzly]

Re: Mill purchase question/advice

Lucky - I am biased, but some factual info:

We sell a lot of those mills and they are <span style="font-weight: bold">very good </span>for the money, and a huge upgrade from what you are currently using.

I use the same dividing head on my mill at home and have done so for the last 20 years or so. Works great, although I do not use it often. When you need it, you cannot do without it. I opted to put a 5" 3 Jaw chuck on it, so you should reconsider that. Too heavy a chuck on that dividing head may not be appropriate. Vise is fine, later you can upgarde, if you want to, to the higher end vises that we also have.

 

[671RTO9513]

Re: Mill purchase question/advice

A friend of mine bought that model of mill earlier this year, and he is well pleased with it.

I have one of those dividing heads which I use quite often, mainly for fluting reamers and cutters I have to make for my jobs. I have a 6" 4-jaw on it and have mounted the dividing head on a piece of 1X3 cold rolled so it can be put in the vise for quick set up. The mag base for the indicator sits right on the front jaw body of the vise, so it's very convenient.

Neither of us does this for a hobby.

 

[woodsy]

Re: Mill purchase question/advice

You might check out Quality Machine tools (http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PMMillingMachines.html). I was in the market for a new mill and ended up going with a PM 1054FV. Love it! I originally started searching for used USA iron but quickly decided that it wasn't worth the gamble of getting a clapped out mill that needed work before it would do work.

I really wanted to go with a Grizzly but they didn't offer what I wanted for a competitive price. My new machine needed to have a variable speed drive enabling me to change speeds on the fly (hate dealing with belt changes), single phase, on-board coolant system, power feeds on all axis, 3 axis DRO and a power drawbar. The PM1054FV spec'd out to a little over 10K with free shipping.

My machine would probably not fit your criteria but they offer smaller machines too. Have a look around their site and give Matt a call. He's very helpful.

Apologies to PapaGrizzly. FWIW, I have a G4003G and love that lathe! It's actually gotten to the point that my accountant knows who Grizzly is.

 

[Clark]

Re: Mill purchase question/advice

I have an old Rockwell Delta 21-100 vertical knee mill ~ 600 pounds.
I rebuilt the head.
I did not use expensive sets of matched ground D channel bearings called out in the parts list.
I used ordinary C channel sealed ball bearings and shimmed the pre load.
In the end I learned how much run out I could accept in gunsmithing, how to measure it, and how to achieve it cheaply.
And I learned to stop hitting the draw bar with a hard hammer, and to use a plastic mallet, so my bearings will last.
Any old knee mill is good enough for gunsmithing, unless you program CNC like Chad.

It seems like I make scope mounts and lathe tooling on the mill, more than anything else.
I designed and made this scope mount and barrel-bipod isolator two months ago on my old mill.
I shot 4 deer with it last month.
It worked.

 

[Papagrizzly]

Re: Mill purchase question/advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: woodsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Apologies to PapaGrizzly. FWIW, I have a G4003G and love that lathe! It's actually gotten to the point that my accountant knows who Grizzly is. </div></div>

Hey, no problem, and thanks for your business! This forum is great and threads such as this allow us all to exchange information.

 

[geraldsd]

Re: Mill purchase question/advice

I bought a nice Bridgeport with a J-head and 9 X 42 bed. It is quiet as a mouse. I paid $2900.00 for it. It and the tooling you are talking about and you are at $4500 to $5000 with American Iron. I'm tired of paying the Chinese.

 

[Lucky Jack]

Re: Mill purchase question/advice

Thanks to everyone for your advice. I'll post pictures of the purchase when it arrives.