Misadventures in Amature Gunsmithery: C3A1 edition

[molonlave]

A while back I got the bug to build a C3A1 clone from one of the PH M84 single shot receivers floating around out there.

Well, that's when the search for parts started to get real interesting. At this point, all I had was the receiver in the condition you see above. After many months, I was able to locate a few parts from the US, UK, and Canada. The big challenge has been the bottom metal. I was only able to find a trigger bow, mag catch, and screw. Finally I got a big break on Ebay with finding 2 magazines that were unfinished. Basically the main mag body was formed and welded, 2 spacers, and the bottom metal. No springs or followers.

 

[molonlave]

After what seems like a year or more I was able to locate a bolt!

It took a while to find the correct bolt. Apparently one of the lugs is longer, which is different than your standard mauser-style. This is when my excitement turned to major cluster fuckage. This bolt was not finished at the factory and I soon found out why. It became clear that during the machining, the firing pin hole was not in line with the center axis of the bolt. I decided to move ahead and threaded the bolt handle to accept a C3A1 syle knob and bushed the firing pin hole to bring it into alignment.

 

[Random Guy]

That is an ambitious project here in the US. Good luck to you and glad you got the bolt fixed in the process. Keep us posted.

 

[molonlave]

While working through each challenge and researching any information I could find, it became apparent that some of these receivers may not have been heat treated sufficiently. I could tell from working on the bolt that it certainly did not have the appropriate hardness. I connected with a local metallurgical testing company and they were kind enough the help me out. Good and bad news. The receiver tested out at 43 HRC, the bolt.....a whopping 8 HRC. No problem, just send the bolt for heat treating, right? Well for those that may not be aware, the heat treatment technicians need to know the exact composition of the alloy if you're going to have a shot at obtaining the hardness you need. I tried calling Parker Hale, but no answer Once again, the metallurgical experts to the rescue! Enter the amazing world of XRF, or X-ray fluorescence spectroscopy. Using XRF, they were able to determine that the bolt was 4140 (I need to check my paperwork to verify). Off to heat treat, and it came back 43-45 HRC!

 

[molonlave]

Bottom line. Everything is off on this mother $#)%(@! But, after many hours of struggling, head scratching, researching, we're getting somewhere. I fully admit that the juice may not be worth the squeeze. But, the whole point of this exercise is to learn, and there is a metric shit ton of learning being done.
Come to find out that the firing pin, mainspring, cocking piece assembly is off center as well due to the misalignment of the hole in the bolt body. I fiddled with the firing pin forever to get it to move without binding. It is something on the order of 0.050" eccentric from the base of the firing pin (where the spring stops) to the tip.

 

[molonlave]

Trued up the top and bottom of the receiver, milled in the slot for the scope base, including the dovetails near the front of the receiver. Opened up the mag well. That geometry is a royal bitch!

Trued up the threads and face of the receiver, best I could. You can appreciate how off center everything is. Hence why machinists with vastly more experience and knowledge decided to scrap this. And here I am trying to give this thing life. Idiot!

 

[molonlave]

Got my barrel back from PacNor and proceeded to thread/chamber. Worked out some pillars and completed the bedding. Even the pillars were a pain in the ass. I had to keep in mind that the rear pillar does not contact the receiver directly because the rear portion of the trigger is between them. Yeah, my thoughts exactly. How the hell do you bed this ?! Decided to make the rear pillar with a sacrificial portion to hold the spacing while bedding and then milled off the exact amount for the trigger.

 

[molonlave]

Made the mag box from scratch using photos. Also fabricated the front portion of the bottom metal that secures the receiver front. The real fun was trying to make a follower from scratch. I'm using a spring from another magazine that I will secure to the follower with a rivet once parkerizing is complete.

 

[molonlave]

And this is as far as I've gotten. Next step is metal finishing, testing, adjusting, and parkerizing.

 

[Powder_Burns]

Really cool project and seeing it move along step by step. Looking forward to seeing it completed.

 

[Random Guy]

Wow, that project is a labor of love. You got some skills to get those parts to this point.
Those Canadian Unertl's are neat, I've never seen one in the US, and you have two of them(!)
I don't know much about the C3A1, but again, good luck finishing that ambitious project.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

You've got a lot more patience than I do. Nice work on the project. That's a great lookin rifle!

 

[sandwarrior]

I just bought the casting for the M85. The next step after the C3A1. I have a feeling I'm going to be busting all the myths you did as well. I however, do not have immediate access to a metal shop.

This is an AWESOME post.

 

[Random Guy]

I forgot to ask one question about the C3 scopes: How many meters out is the BDC marked on those Canadian Unertls? (Does it go to 8, 9 or 10 on the dial? Just curious, as the USMC scopes went to 1000 yards, but that's only 914 meters, hence the question.)

 

[molonlave]

First, thanks to all for the encouragement!
Random Guy: the BDC goes to 800m.

 

[sandwarrior]

This thread is nothing short of awesome!

this is the M85 about to begin!

 

[molonlave]

Take pictures along the way and keep us posted! I'm sure it will turn out great!

 

[ZG47A]

@sandwarrior Good on you. It is a shame that the rifle envisaged by Frank de Haas son (p. 297-9, Bolt Action Rifles, rev. ed. DBI Books Inc, was essentially delivered by Parker Hale and then produced in relatively low numbers BUT the company fell victim to a number of factors, including the Midland Rifle Company debacle. More pictures and more story, please.

 

[sandwarrior]

@sandwarrior Good on you. It is a shame that the rifle envisaged by Frank de Haas son (p. 297-9, Bolt Action Rifles, rev. ed. DBI Books Inc, was essentially delivered by Parker Hale and then produced in relatively low numbers BUT the company fell victim to a number of factors, including the Midland Rifle Company debacle. More pictures and more story, please.

Yes. Officially it was only adopted by the Malaysian PASCAL and the Brazilian Marines. Unofficially, it was used by the SAS. Not much debate going on over whether they liked it better than the AI. Non-disclosure issues I'm thinking. The fact they used it should say enough, though. I know a couple of Canadian Snipers who very much liked the C3 and C3A1. Until some dumbass came along and declared them "obsolete".

The history of the Midland debacle is pretty murky over here still. I do know that Parker Hales were bought in large quantities by Kimber (Added: of Oregon) here in America. All kinds of strange stuff showed up like heavy barreled 9.3x62's. And they were very inexpensive, good quality barreled actions. Oh, if I had only bought those instead of the stuff I did buy... wasted remorse, ha ha. Those all ended up with Val Forgett in W. Virginia.

Funny, the guy who owned Kimber also owned a large chain of sawmills. 70 mills in fact. He filed bankrupcty in January 1991. And of course, the mill we were delivering to owed my boss $65K. In turn my boss didn't pay me the $6600 that he owed me. I should have gotten a whole bunch of those rifles as I see it, but bankruptcy laws in America don't really favor the workers. Kimber got bought and became Kimber USA.

Ah well, I got my boss back twice what the court allowed me ($4500), so $9k, when a bankruptcy court mandated the mills pay what they owed in seven equal payments. My lawyer intercepted the second payment. One third went to the lawyers and I got $6K

 

[slothlacrosse]

These are some great projects. Ya'll are making me regret selling a box of M85 parts I was sitting on!