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Rifle Scopes MOA vs Mil.

TheGerman said:
I see your subtensions and raise you a spin drift.
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Does Spin Drift get measured in Mils, MOA, IPHY or liters? Because I want a Liter-a-Spin-D?

Meh, what do I know.... I’m so old that all my scopes are in 1/10 cubit with 200 furlong reticle. They work perfect to range a firkin at 100 chains.

Cheers, Sirhr
 
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milf_vs_moan.png
 
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TheGerman said:
It's measured in cucumberView attachment 7005075.
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Is that technically cucumber or gherkin? Does it make a difference which I use?

Cheers, Sirhr

Hey OP... don’t feel bad... at least you didn’t start a 9mm vs. .45 thread. Maybe we should be asking if 9mm should use mils and .45 should be MOA in order to be better?
 
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Where do I get MIL sights for my A2 service rifle?
 
sirhrmechanic said:
Is that technically cucumber or gherkin? Does it make a difference which I use?

Cheers, Sirhr

Hey OP... don’t feel bad... at least you didn’t start a 9mm vs. .45 thread. Maybe we should be asking if 9mm should use mils and .45 should be MOA in order to be better?
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I'm gherkin to this thread .
 
Huskydriver said:
When you do branch out, just don't be getting any ideas about shooting said 6.5 .264 at a mile then telling people you do shoot at a mile. Tends to upset the moa for life shooters who believe that's only for a select few "chosen" cartridges so I have heard.....
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Fixed it for you so the MOA guys could understand your point...
 
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Several years ago I shot in the Army long range competition, the scope I had was a leuplold mk4 with an H-58, which was a mil/mil scope. We shot at 800,900 and 1000 yards. We shot from statioanry burms and we knew the range so I dialed for elevation and held whatever I needed to for wind. I also shot in some friendly competitions with the dudes I worked with, that had unknown and random distance targets, which is where I think a “tree” type reticle shines. You don’t have to dial anything and if you’re holding for elevation and wind you have an actual sub tensions in the scope to use. I’ve tried to hold everything with a TMR reticle and it’s a real pain in the ass if you have to try and keep everything lined up in a big blank space in the scope. Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
Wait.......let’s go back and talk about that HK brochure for a second...........WTF?? Is that real or has it been photoshopped??
 
Huskydriver said:
When you do branch out, just don't be getting any ideas about shooting said 6.5 at a mile then telling people you do shoot at a mile. Tends to upset the moa for life shooters who believe that's only for a select few "chosen" cartridges so I have heard.....
Click to expand...

Good news for me, is 1. I probabaly ain’t that good and won’t be for a long time, and 2. I ain’t got a mile to shoot. So I’m safe from starting another asshole thread. Fuck I’m just trying to learn. Man I’ve fucked up twice now......real good.
Sorry guys.
 
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Yes, HK caught absolute hell for it (didn't hurt their business at least). That's what you get when you have a photographer that isn't a firearms guy (and has no common damn sense), and an HK employee that has the attentiveness of a rock.

 
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Talking about base ten systems and metric. Where does 0.9” come into play?

It’s obviously inches. But.... someting Wong here.
 
spaniel said:
Yup. Shot an elk last year at 730 with a 338 Edge. Dealt strait MOA from the rangefinder through the scope. Dropped it in one shot. No need to replace gear because internet opinion had shifted to MIL. 780 yards is far beyond "reasonable" hunting range for any MOA/inch assumptions and anyone attempting such a shot damn well better understand exactly where their bullet will impact. MOA vs inches means nothing within 400 yards with reasonable rounds. If you are going to shoot far with whatever system you better understand it backwards and forwards. That is what is lost in this dick-measuring contest. Neck sizing? Yes, I use that for some rifles, but not others. A number of years ago that was the fad as was a 308 for everybody. Must be an idiot shooting High Master neck sizing my 284....

I'm disappointed that this site is starting to sound like every other internet forum where we can't have a discussion of opinions as the latest fad must overwhelm.
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How is it this gem went unaddressed? Internet opinion has shifted to mil? Mil is a "fad"? It certainly doesn't look that way to me. Really the only people using mils outside our military are precision marksmen. Not that it's "better" really, it's just more standardized and when we're talking about it, correcting fire, etc. we're all saying mils and looking at the same thing through the scope. Add a mil, drop a mil, outside of half a plate, or in the bottom left quarter, etc. Everywhere else it seems like MOA is the standard. This is especially true among non military hunters (the vast majority of them). I've been to many game camps, and I've been the only person with mil scope. Either no turret scopes at all, or they were MOA.

Our entire military has been metric (with the exception of nautical measurements) since about WWI when we had to integrate with our allies, and all their accurate maps were in kilometers. Artillery had no choice but to go metric and to a mils system or risk killing friendlies. Since then Artillery School and NGFS School, and all big guns have been everything in Mils. It had to be for combined arms, and so an Army unit could call for fire to a ship. I am not positive how that translated over to Sniper Schools, but it's hard to imagine they wouldn't want to be standardized with the way every other gun is sighted onto the target in the military.

It's certainly not a "fad" unless 100+ years of continuous use in the military is a "fad". I also don't believe mils are super popular outside precision shooting.
 
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L2bravo said:
Fuck me. A week or two back I asked about 6.5 vs 308. I am new to this end of the pool. I swear I asked this in fucking earnest. Shit am I sorry.
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You have to remember that 308 only works in MOA/inches and 6.5 only works in MIL/metric. Let your cartridge decide.


Palmetto-Pride said:
So is it settled which one is better? I was hoping for some conclusion on this.....lol
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What cartridge do you shoot? Is it imperial or metric?
 
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spaniel said:
At normal hunting ranges the difference is inconsequential. Once it is consequential, either method can be used effectively. Finishing on the podium in 2000yd competition, I guess I must know a thing or two. And yes, if one considers themselves a "precision" shooter, I expect they reload their own ammo or I discount them.
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spaniel said:
Yup. Shot an elk last year at 730 with a 338 Edge. Dealt strait MOA from the rangefinder through the scope. Dropped it in one shot.
Click to expand...

For your outstanding achievement in Internet Marksmanship, i am proud to award you the much coveted SnipersHide Golden Cock Award.

Capture.PNG
 
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spaniel said:
Yup. Shot an elk last year at 730 with a 338 Edge. Dealt strait MOA from the rangefinder through the scope. Dropped it in one shot. No need to replace gear because internet opinion had shifted to MIL. 780 yards is far beyond "reasonable" hunting range for any MOA/inch assumptions and anyone attempting such a shot damn well better understand exactly where their bullet will impact. MOA vs inches means nothing within 400 yards with reasonable rounds. If you are going to shoot far with whatever system you better understand it backwards and forwards. That is what is lost in this dick-measuring contest. Neck sizing? Yes, I use that for some rifles, but not others. A number of years ago that was the fad as was a 308 for everybody. Must be an idiot shooting High Master neck sizing my 284....

I'm disappointed that this site is starting to sound like every other internet forum where we can't have a discussion of opinions as the latest fad must overwhelm.
Click to expand...

@spaniel
Its been said multiple times in this thread that MOA and MILS are just 2 different methods of getting to the same answer, and nobody has told you that you have to switch over. They have however given you good reasons why you might want to do so. If Benchrest or F-Class is your game they might even point you in the MOA direction. You have to acknowledge and understand that this site is SNIPERS HIDE and caters to military sniper methodology and PRS shooters. Taking into account this forum's purpose you have actually received info that is fair and balanced....
 
Long Range 338 said:
You have to remember that 308 only works in MOA/inches and 6.5 only works in MIL/metric. Let your cartridge decide.




What cartridge do you shoot? Is it imperial or metric?
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Shit now I'm really confused I shoot a 308 WIN and a 6.5CM so are you suggesting when I shoot the 308 win I should use MOA and when I shoot the 6.5 Creedmoor I should use mil...... damn it now I have to go buy some more scopes... LOL
 
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I am not reading everything but for those hard-headed MOA guys, who THINK in Inches or whatever, reprogramed etc

Pennies,

We all know that 10 pennies equal a Dime, that is Mils in a nutshell,

You dial a penny and it adds up to to the dime.

2.2 Mils is 22 cents, you can figure that out using Pennies and dimes, dial 2 dimes and add in 2 pennies and you are good

Problem solved
 
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Lowlight said:
I am not reading everything but for those hard-headed MOA guys, who THINK in Inches or whatever, reprogramed etc

Pennies,

We all know that 10 pennies equal a Dime, that is Mils in a nutshell,

You dial a penny and it adds up to to the dime.

2.2 Mils is 22 cents, you can figure that out using Pennies and dimes, dial 2 dimes and add in 2 pennies and you are good

Problem solved
Click to expand...
That's the short answer .?????
 
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Lowlight said:
I am not reading everything but for those hard-headed MOA guys, who THINK in Inches or whatever, reprogramed etc

Pennies,

We all know that 10 pennies equal a Dime, that is Mils in a nutshell,

You dial a penny and it adds up to to the dime.

2.2 Mils is 22 cents, you can figure that out using Pennies and dimes, dial 2 dimes and add in 2 pennies and you are good

Problem solved
Click to expand...

These guys are now busy trying to figure out how many inches are in a penny and a dime at a hundred yards lol.

People just have such a hard time letting go of the whole angular unit vs linear unit of measure. They make fun of Christmas tree reticles because they refuse to see just how easy the system works even if it's in moa some times because they are so wrapped into knowing how many inches a unit is.
 
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Palmetto-Pride said:
Shit now I'm really confused I shoot a 308 WIN and a 6.5CM so are you suggesting when I shoot the 308 win I should use MOA and when I shoot the 6.5 Creedmoor I should use mil...... damn it now I have to go buy some more scopes... LOL
Click to expand...


Not to convolute this any further, but if you use 7.62x51 vs .308 in your, well, .308, you obviously should be using mils. Hence why they make QD Bases for easy switch out...................

:unsure:
 
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Huskydriver said:
These guys are now busy trying to figure out how many inches are in a penny and a dime at a hundred yards lol.

People just have such a hard time letting go of the whole angular unit vs linear unit of measure. They make fun of Christmas tree reticles because they refuse to see just how easy the system works even if it's in moa some times because they are so wrapped into knowing how many inches a unit is.
Click to expand...

OK, I’ll bite. How do you like the Christmas tree reticle??? Been considering one
 
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