Mod 70, Diagnos, Sell, or Rebarrel

Bakwa

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I'm trying to diagnose my fathers old Mod 70. It's an early 70's push feed 25-06. It used to be a sub MOA rifle and my father claims that he has had several 1/2 MOA 3-shot groups out of it.
Recently, we took it out to the range to zero it, and we were consistently shooting 2-3.5" 3-shot groups with it at 100yds. Three people tried grouping it, and a 2" equilateral triangle what the best that we came up with. We tried 3 types of ammo; one being a type that the rifle has shot very well with in the past.
Oh, and the zero seemed to wander a bit while we were just trying to create a good group.

So the first thing that I checked were the tightness of the mount to the receiver and scope.
It was tight.
Then the crown.
It looked good.
Then we thought that the barrel may be shot out.
Without using a bore-scope [just a good light], everything seems to check out from the breach to the muzzle.
Last, I checked the stock and action screws.
Screws were snug, and the stock doesn't seem warped. Stock presses on the barrel, but the barrel has never been free-floated, even when it was shooting good.

I don't want to take it to a gunsmith, because I don't know if any close by know what they're doing when it come to bolt action accuracy. They might say something like, "Well, if you can hit a pie plate, then that's good enough for Bambi's dad."

What am I missing here? Should I just take it to a smith here anyway to see what they say?

If I can't figure this out, then my father says he doesn't want it. If this becomes the case, would it be worth truing the action, re-barreling, re-stocking? Or with all the great new options that are out there, should I just pick up another factory Tikka or try a Bergara?
 

Supersubes

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    Scope could be bad, can you swap it with something else? How much has the rifle been shot? 25-06 is a serious hotrod, the barrel could be smoked or it may just need a good cleaning.
     

    Bakwa

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    Scope could be bad, can you swap it with something else? How much has the rifle been shot? 25-06 is a serious hotrod, the barrel could be smoked or it may just need a good cleaning.

    Yeah, That was my next though. I'm going to change out the scope to see what it does.
    It's been cleaned after ever outing since my dad has owned it. But I'll brush some copper solvent through to see if that does anything.

    It really may be shoot out though. I've never shot out a barrel, so I don't know what that would look like. Nothing looks corroded, damaged, or too seriously worn out.
    The guy that sold it to my dad back in the 80's worked for a Winchester ammo plant. So it's possible that the gun was shot pretty extensively before my father even got it; maybe it's seen the last of it's days as a backup hunting rifle in my families possession over the last 30 years. My family couldn't have shot more than 300 rounds through it since we've had it.
     
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    308pirate

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    Check scope. If that's not it, pillar bed it. If the barrel is thin, consider free floating it. If a pillar bedded action and a free floating barrel won't shoot, put shims under the barrel near the tip of the forend and watch the rifle's behavior.

    If none of that works, rebarrel.
     

    Greg Langelius *

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    When accuracy degrades without obvious signs of mechanical issues, my first approach is to give the barrel a thorough cleaning. My suspicion would be that there's a carbon ring accumulated in/near the throat area.

    A recent topic on this site suggested trying CLR cleaner (the stuff that's used to remove lime staining from sinks/faucets/shower heads, etc.). It's basically a blend of moderate strength acids. Applying it to the bore's throat area and allowing it to soak for a brief (1 hour-ish) interval to soften the carbon, then briskly brushing the area may bring improvement. If it improves accuracy, but not all the way, maybe repeat the process another time or two. Follow each application immediately with a conventional cleaning, to remove any acidic residue

    If accuracy is unaffected after two applications, it's not carbon.

    This CLR cleaning idea is only recently coming to light on The 'Hide, and there has been some discussion pro and con here. At any rate, it's a new approach.

    My view is that very few old guns (especially hunters) actually suffer from burned out barrels, and many of them will bounce back after a knock-down, drag-out cleaning. Worth a try.

    In your case, there may be some sense to believing its unique history may have subjected it to an unusually high volume of fire.

    If the thorough cleaning regimen is unproductive, have a smith borescope the barrel; and try another scope, to clarify the existing one's reliability. Or maybe even start the rejuvenation process with the swap, pre-cleaning.

    If both diagnostics point to a heavily worn barrel, it's still useful as a back-up hunter with a 2-3MOA performance, just avoid the long shots.

    If you go for a rebarrel, I strongly suggest changing to a .270 or .30-06 chambering.

    IMHO a high precision barrel can be nice on a hunter, but it's probably overkill. Also, if a basic hunter rifle won't shoot commercial ammunition to within 2 MOA, there's a mechanical issue.

    Greg
     
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    mcameron

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    first thing i would do is clean the barrel and free float it......

    the barrel may have never been free floated......but the stock could have warped, and is now contacting the stock more than it was before.

    if those dont work, i would try swapping out the scope..........then bedding the action.
     

    jetmd

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    Bakwa, where are you located? Don't need your GPS or home address just give us a general location.
    We are very fortunate on SH to have not only knowledge members but helpful members.
    If we know what state we can possibly recommend a good smith nereby.
    Also several members including myself keep a spare know good scope you could swap with yours for troubleshooting.
    Just a thought.
    Good luck!
     

    Bakwa

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    first thing i would do is clean the barrel and free float it......

    the barrel may have never been free floated......but the stock could have warped, and is now contacting the stock more than it was before.

    if those dont work, i would try swapping out the scope..........then bedding the action.

    How would I free float the barrel without bedding the action in some way? Shims?
    My next attempt at a fix is probably going to be a heavy cleaning as has been recommended, and changing the scope. I've never really felt like I knew what I was doing so far as changing things that mess with the harmonic of a rifle. Always been afraid of screwing up a bedding job, or a shim job, or taking material out of the barrel channel.
     

    Bakwa

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    Bakwa, where are you located? Don't need your GPS or home address just give us a general location.
    We are very fortunate on SH to have not only knowledge members but helpful members.
    If we know what state we can possibly recommend a good smith nereby.
    Also several members including myself keep a spare know good scope you could swap with yours for troubleshooting.
    Just a thought.
    Good luck!

    I'm in North Central FL. Gainesville area to be exact. I'm always down to shoot with people I can learn from. Unfortunately those people are hard to find. I don't know much, but somehow I seem to be more competent than 90% of shooters I've encountered. You'd think that other gun owners would want to understand their hobby a bit better, but this doesn't seem to be a common occurrence.
     

    wapiti16b

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    My 25/06 only lasted about 1500 rounds (est) but I was re-loading pretty HOT ! with 120 grain bullets for Deer , I'd have a competent gunsmith that you trust scope the barrel and go from there !
    If you decide to sell rather than re-barrel ( if it comes to that ) let me know ! , I sold an old push feed to a friend years ago and wish I hadn't .
     

    Bakwa

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    My 25/06 only lasted about 1500 rounds (est) but I was re-loading pretty HOT ! with 120 grain bullets for Deer , I'd have a competent gunsmith that you trust scope the barrel and go from there !
    If you decide to sell rather than re-barrel ( if it comes to that ) let me know ! , I sold an old push feed to a friend years ago and wish I hadn't .

    I'll keep you in mind. But this is also the reason I'm considering re-barreling it. I know it's a great action. Guess I'll report back after shooting. Just have to find the time amidst hanging tree stands and all the other last minute hunting chores I need to do before the season starts in two weeks.
     

    Sixfivesavage

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    Isn't CORE close to you? They are great guys, I'm sure if you call them and tell them the hide pointed you their way they will at least bore scope it for you. If you can get some, wipeout carbon remover is some serious shit and will go a long way removing old stubborn carbon from a barrel with a nylon brush. Then regular wipeout for the copper.
     

    Bakwa

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    Isn't CORE close to you? They are great guys, I'm sure if you call them and tell them the hide pointed you their way they will at least bore scope it for you. If you can get some, wipeout carbon remover is some serious shit and will go a long way removing old stubborn carbon from a barrel with a nylon brush. Then regular wipeout for the copper.

    Interesting, I've always dismissed them as AR specific.
    Also, I'll need to check out Wipeout.
     

    Bakwa

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    Scub barrel , check scope , check or change firing pin spring . Weak spring can cause accuracy issues.

    This is the first I've heard of a firing pin spring causing accuracy issues. I've always thought of it as, it either hits hard enough or it doesn't. This may be seriously worth looking into.
     

    Iamero

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    If you want to sell it, hit me up. I would love to do a 26-06 or 280 on a Pre-64. I had one in 243 with an old Weaver scope on it. I shot factory Noslers and couldn't group better than 2-3". I swapped out the scope for a Leupold and it went to like 3/4" all day in the factory stock with no bedding or anything. I ended up selling it to my coworker because it was the year he was born.
     

    holy cow

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    Sounds to me like a good donor to use in the LRI deal he is having on truing them up, might as well send a barrel and have it done to.
     

    Servo93

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    If you want to sell it, hit me up. I would love to do a 26-06 or 280 on a Pre-64. I had one in 243 with an old Weaver scope on it. I shot factory Noslers and couldn't group better than 2-3". I swapped out the scope for a Leupold and it went to like 3/4" all day in the factory stock with no bedding or anything. I ended up selling it to my coworker because it was the year he was born.

    He stated that it was a 1970's built push feed in the first post.
     

    Iamero

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    Oops you're right. Read that wrong.