Model 70 Bolt Will Not Come Out

[BuLLet]

Good detective work there! Maybe his 8 year old son is stronger then he thinks.

What is this indentation? None of my M70s have this. If it is in fact a dent as it appears and metal was moved down then that would pinch on the bolt raceway causing hard bolt removal.

 

[Naaman]

Here are some pics from the side.

It does appear that the "collar" of the bolt handle (where it wraps around the bolt) makes contact with that spot. There is a slight wear pattern on that part of the bolt handle, and this does appear to be the issue.

I wonder if grinding off a little metal from the dented part would be fine?

 

[hangunnr]

If that’s a brand new rifle I’d send it back to Winchester.
If it was some family heirloom then I would fix it and rock on.

 

[stealthgoat]

as JETMD mentioned, Phoenix Custom Rifles is excellent. I was really pleased with the customer service on some work they did on one of my CRF Winchesters.

 

[jetmd]

Keith does quality work!

 

[Naaman]

If that’s a brand new rifle I’d send it back to Winchester.
If it was some family heirloom then I would fix it and rock on.

It is brand new in the sense that I took delivery of it about a month ago, and it has never been fired. But I don't feel right about returning it as faulty if I know that I received it in properly new condition. Unless you're saying that the action should be able to withstand being beat up by the bolt slamming into it, and that the metal used for this rifle was faulty?

 

[Naaman]

as JETMD mentioned, Phoenix Custom Rifles is excellent. I was really pleased with the customer service on some work they did on one of my CRF Winchesters.

Keith does quality work!

Thanks guys. I'll check them out after the holiday.

 

[m1match]

Here are some pics from the side.

It does appear that the "collar" of the bolt handle (where it wraps around the bolt) makes contact with that spot. There is a slight wear pattern on that part of the bolt handle, and this does appear to be the issue.

I wonder if grinding off a little metal from the dented part would be fine?

Naaman, DO NOT GO GRINDING ON PARTS OF THE GUN WHERE YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOUR DOING! Your receiver looks perfectly normal and the part of the receiver in your first picture is the camming surface for the primary extraction of your rifle. Don't go messing around with this part of the receiver. The Win 70 bolt release will jam up if you pull the bolt all the way back and then try to push the bolt release down without releasing rearward pressure on the bolt. Pull the bolt back, let it go then push the bolt release down.

Here's a picture of my FN SPR receiver which now has over 5,000 rounds through it and functions flawlessly

 

[Naaman]

Naaman, DO NOT GO GRINDING ON PARTS OF THE GUN WHERE YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOUR DOING! Your receiver looks perfectly normal and the part of the receiver in your first picture is the camming surface for the primary extraction of your rifle. Don't go messing around with this part of the receiver. The Win 70 bolt release will jam up if you pull the bolt all the way back and then try to push the bolt release down without releasing rearward pressure on the bolt. Pull the bolt back, let it go then push the bolt release down.

Here's a picture of my FN SPR receiver which now has over 5,000 rounds through it and functions flawlessly

View attachment 7366622

Thanks for the heads up. I have not done anything to the rifle at this point.

 

[sandwarrior]

Well Sir if you live in Phoenix you are a Very fortunate man as you have a Great Gunsmith at your door!!

https://www.phoenixcustomrifles.com

With that kind of binding, something is amiss. At least you can get it to someone who can assess what you really have going on.

Added: As M1Match said you can't have pressure on the release to push it down. Put your bolt in mid-positon, push the bolt release down then pull the bolt back and remove it.

 

[Naaman]

With that kind of binding, something is amiss. At least you can get it to someone who can assess what you really have going on.

Added: As M1Match said you can't have pressure on the release to push it down. Put your bolt in mid-positon, push the bolt release down then pull the bolt back and remove it.

The bolt release is not the culprit.

There is some metal on the rear section of the action, upper left corner if looking from behind the rifle. That metal has become deformed from the bolt being slammed forward with excessive force by my son during dry fire. The deformity created a clearance issue whereby the front portion of the bolt cannot pass through that section unless forced.

 

[sandwarrior]

The bolt release is not the culprit.

There is some metal on the rear section of the action, upper left corner if looking from behind the rifle. That metal has become deformed from the bolt being slammed forward with excessive force by my son during dry fire. The deformity created a clearance issue whereby the front portion of the bolt cannot pass through that section unless forced.

Okay,

That is not normal to deform from running a bolt fast and hard. Military and Police train with those exact rifles that way. Your 8-year-old isn't going to produce enough force on that bolt to deform the action to where it's going to bind. If you find something stuck in a crevice somewhere, that may be your culprit. Actual cause, not result of actual cause. That's really what you are looking for.

FWIW, I'm glad you are staying in tune with this thread. Some members with less patience respond to new guys with a harsh attitude. It doesn't do any good to drive people off. Anyhow, with the binding, I would say gunsmith first (a lot of good ones in your area). PCR is a good place to start. Tell him "the Hide" sent ya. Then with what knowledge he can give, if you have to send it back, do so.

 

[Naaman]

Okay,

That is not normal to deform from running a bolt fast and hard. Military and Police train with those exact rifles that way. Your 8-year-old isn't going to produce enough force on that bolt to deform the action to where it's going to bind. If you find something stuck in a crevice somewhere, that may be your culprit. Actual cause, not result of actual cause. That's really what you are looking for.

FWIW, I'm glad you are staying in tune with this thread. Some members with less patience respond to new guys with a harsh attitude. It doesn't do any good to drive people off. Anyhow, with the binding, I would say gunsmith first (a lot of good ones in your area). PCR is a good place to start. Tell him "the Hide" sent ya. Then with what knowledge he can give, if you have to send it back, do so.

Hmm...

My initial firearms experience comes from the military, where I learned not to "baby" my guns. What I have taught my children is that weapons are designed for violence and (well made ones) should not require delicate handling. A "weapon" should be able to stand up to harsh treatment. So, it's kinda my fault that he treats guns that way.

On the other hand, when I first installed the bolt upon unboxing, it went in smooth as glass. Now, when I remove, and then attempt to reinstall, I can see that the deformed spot is causing drag on one specific part of the bolt (I don't know the nomenclature for the various parts of the bolt, but it's on the front left side of the bolt, where it's wider across than in the main part of the bolt body). Once the bolt clears that spot, it operates normally (cycles live ammo as normal on both safe and fire).

Anyway, after the holiday, I'll take it down to PCR and see if they can assess.

 

[DJL2]

Here's mine, mostly newish.

 

[Naaman]

Here's mine, mostly newish.

I'm betting your bolt comes right out?

 

[sandwarrior]

I'm betting your bolt comes right out?

Do you have a pic of where the bolt is showing wear?

 

[stello1001]

Here's mine, mostly newish.

You should bed that scope base lol...

 

[Naaman]

Do you have a pic of where the bolt is showing wear?

I can take one later tonight. It's not a significant amount of wear.

 

[DJL2]

You should bed that scope base lol...

Perhaps I will when I bed the rifle again...or when the shots start to wander. I haven't been all that pleased with the Leupold rings, honestly. The spacing isn't ideal and the position isn't great.

 

[Naaman]

I've been in touch with SAC and showed them pics of the action. They were "impressed" with the amount of deformation and recommended filing the down the burr.

I stopped by PCR today and they were closed...

Interestingly... my wife recommended I just get ANOTHER rifle while this one gets dealt with... is she a keeper, or what?

 

[m1match]

Naaman, I take back what I said about your receiver looking normal, I looked again and you are correct, I see the problem area. I stand by my comment to not grind on that part of the receiver yourself since it is the primary extraction cam surface and if you mess something up it is much harder to fix than having a good gunsmith do the fix for you.

 

[BuLLet]

Are you willing to trade?

I've been in touch with SAC and showed them pics of the action. They were "impressed" with the amount of deformation and recommended filing the down the burr.

I stopped by PCR today and they were closed...

Interestingly... my wife recommended I just get ANOTHER rifle while this one gets dealt with... is she a keeper, or what?

 

[Naaman]

Are you willing to trade?

Do you mean trade my model 70?

 

[Jscb1b]

Bump.

 

[BuLLet]

Heh, no wives! I need a new one that won't object to getting a new rig

Do you mean trade my model 70?

 

[jetmd]

Naaman,

Please click on this link:

https://www.phoenixcustomrifles.com/contact-and-shipping.html

READ the last sentence please.

 

[Naaman]

Heh, no wives! I need a new one that won't object to getting a new rig

I thought that might be it.

 

[Naaman]

Naaman,

Please click on this link:

https://www.phoenixcustomrifles.com/contact-and-shipping.html

READ the last sentence please.

Yes. Some lessons in life are learned the hard way.

Based on the pics on the website and the hours given on google maps, I thought it was a shop that had business hours. When I arrived and realized what was going on, I parked around the corner and called, and was informed that they were closed today.

 

[sandwarrior]

Naaman,

Thanks for keeping us in the loop on this. As you noted things seemed to change when your 8-yr. old cycled the bolt hard and fast. And the resulting deformation appeared where one normally pops up after a lot of rounds. In any case, it appears to be binding the bolt head as you removed the bolt.

When you get it to someone who has the tools ask if it might be the hardness of the action? I also noted in one of your earlier pics, the extraction retaining claw collar (the part that wraps around the bolt and holds the claw to the bolt) looks loose, pic 2 of post #44. Is that catching? Added: that could just be the gap and the angle of the camera.

 

[Naaman]

Naaman, I take back what I said about your receiver looking normal, I looked again and you are correct, I see the problem area. I stand by my comment to not grind on that part of the receiver yourself since it is the primary extraction cam surface and if you mess something up it is much harder to fix than having a good gunsmith do the fix for you.

Thanks. I'm heading down to the smith this morning.

 

[Naaman]

Naaman,

Thanks for keeping us in the loop on this. As you noted things seemed to change when your 8-yr. old cycled the bolt hard and fast. And the resulting deformation appeared where one normally pops up after a lot of rounds. In any case, it appears to be binding the bolt head as you removed the bolt.

When you get it to someone who has the tools ask if it might be the hardness of the action? I also noted in one of your earlier pics, the extraction retaining claw collar (the part that wraps around the bolt and holds the claw to the bolt) looks loose, pic 2 of post #44. Is that catching? Added: that could just be the gap and the angle of the camera.

I appreciate the interest and feedback. I'm 50/50 right now on having a smith do something and just sending it back to Winchester.

When I inspect the bolt, it appears to be undamaged. As to whether it is loose, I am not sure: I don't have a frame of reference for comparison. It SEEMS fine, best I can tell.

 

[Naaman]

I took the rifle to PCR today. He said he'd have it done in an hour, so I went to a local diner and got some breakfast. Came back and it was done. Action slides out smooth as glass now.

Kieth charged me $0 to file down the burr.

That's hump number 1 of 3 cleared before I can actually put rounds through this rifle and get it zeroed.

I asked him about rails and rings for a scope mount, and he basically affirmed my experience with regard to finding something that will fit my rifle. If anyone knows of a solid rail and ring combo that will work on a late model CRF M70 Featherweight (30mm tube), I started a thread here:

Model 70 Featherweight build (Scope mount options)

This is my first bolt gun. I plan to use it both on my first deer hunt (first hunt of any kind, actually) as well as my "learning gun" for a more custom build some time in the future. 22" bararel, .308 chambering. I have no skill in regards to reading reticles (been picking the brains of the...

www.snipershide.com

Would prefer to buy US-made hardware that is known to fit my rifle.

 

[hangunnr]

 

[Terry Cross]

I asked him about rails and rings for a scope mount, and he basically affirmed my experience with regard to finding something that will fit my rifle. If anyone knows of a solid rail and ring combo that will work on a late model CRF M70 Featherweight (30mm tube), I started a thread here:

Model 70 Featherweight build (Scope mount options)

This is my first bolt gun. I plan to use it both on my first deer hunt (first hunt of any kind, actually) as well as my "learning gun" for a more custom build some time in the future. 22" bararel, .308 chambering. I have no skill in regards to reading reticles (been picking the brains of the...

www.snipershide.com

Would prefer to buy US-made hardware that is known to fit my rifle.

Not a "light weight" option but would you be interested in a 1 piece NightForce 1913 Picatinny rail with machined recoil lug?

I have a new one on one of my assembly benches that was from a "favor" project. I don't build on Winchesters or FNs usually so I will likely never have a use for this and would make you a smoking deal. It is the same model as shown in this link: https://www.sportoptics.com/nightforce-base-win70-short-action-a198.aspx

If interested, PM me. No worries if not. Good luck with your project.


./

 

[moosemeat]

Get this. It's from Terry Cross. The fact he touched it will make your rifle shoot better.

 

[sandwarrior]

I took the rifle to PCR today. He said he'd have it done in an hour, so I went to a local diner and got some breakfast. Came back and it was done. Action slides out smooth as glass now.

Kieth charged me $0 to file down the burr.

That's hump number 1 of 3 cleared before I can actually put rounds through this rifle and get it zeroed.

I asked him about rails and rings for a scope mount, and he basically affirmed my experience with regard to finding something that will fit my rifle. If anyone knows of a solid rail and ring combo that will work on a late model CRF M70 Featherweight (30mm tube), I started a thread here:

Model 70 Featherweight build (Scope mount options)

This is my first bolt gun. I plan to use it both on my first deer hunt (first hunt of any kind, actually) as well as my "learning gun" for a more custom build some time in the future. 22" bararel, .308 chambering. I have no skill in regards to reading reticles (been picking the brains of the...

www.snipershide.com

Would prefer to buy US-made hardware that is known to fit my rifle.

So, dumb question? Did you make mention the rifle was brand new? Did he make mention that sounded kind of soft for a brand new receiver? I just ask because I cycle bolts like that all the time and don't have the issue. Meaning I have marks, but not deformation. 'Course, 8 yr olds have a way of getting between the lines on stuff like that. An entire set of Snap-On wrenches got buried in my front yard once. I found most of them...

FWIW, I laughed at moosemeats comment, but what Terry Cross has would be excellent for your rifle.

 

[m1match]

Dude, if you need a scope base I’d advise you to jump on the deal from Terry! Besides being one of the nicest and most respected people inshooting, that Nightforce picatinny base is exactly what you should be putting on it!

And because as moosemeat said the fact that he blessed it will make you a better shooter

On whether the receiver is soft, I can’t speak to that but it’s almost inconceivable that Winchester would have let that rifle out of the shop with receiver steel that didnt meet spec, but having said that we’ve all seen sh*t happen. Plus he took the rifle to PCR and they didn’t bring up any other issues that hey saw...

From his pictures I’m guessing that the cutter that cut the primary extraction cam was dull causing the deformation that we saw.

 

[Naaman]

So, dumb question? Did you make mention the rifle was brand new? Did he make mention that sounded kind of soft for a brand new receiver? I just ask because I cycle bolts like that all the time and don't have the issue. Meaning I have marks, but not deformation. 'Course, 8 yr olds have a way of getting between the lines on stuff like that. An entire set of Snap-On wrenches got buried in my front yard once. I found most of them...

FWIW, I laughed at moosemeats comment, but what Terry Cross has would be excellent for your rifle.

I did ask about it, but he didn't seem to worried about it. My son is... passionate... about guns... lol. He "almost broke" my Glock the other day (he assembled the slide to the frame with no barrel or guide rod) so I pretended like I couldn't get it apart, and told him to stop experimenting with our self defense tools. He feels really bad about it, and between that and the rifle, I think he learned his lesson.

He also lost one of my rachets and some sockets in the front lawn when he was four. Not Snap-on, but I feel your pain, to some degree.

 

[Naaman]

Get this. It's from Terry Cross. The fact he touched it will make your rifle shoot better.

I PM'd him.

Dude, if you need a scope base I’d advise you to jump on the deal from Terry! Besides being one of the nicest and most respected people inshooting, that Nightforce picatinny base is exactly what you should be putting on it!

And because as moosemeat said the fact that he blessed it will make you a better shooter

On whether the receiver is soft, I can’t speak to that but it’s almost inconceivable that Winchester would have let that rifle out of the shop with receiver steel that didnt meet spec, but having said that we’ve all seen sh*t happen. Plus he took the rifle to PCR and they didn’t bring up any other issues that hey saw...

From his pictures I’m guessing that the cutter that cut the primary extraction cam was dull causing the deformation that we saw.

Since I'm $0 into the solution, should I shoot it first and see how it does? Or is there some way to test the metal without shipping it across the country?

I wonder if soft metal will hold up to the chamber pressures of .308?

 

[moosemeat]

Shoot it. That will tell the tail. If I was near you I'd come crash test dummy it for you. If you dont feel safe call Winchester Monday and get a return label. I suppose a local machine shop could Rockwell test it for a few bucks, but do you know what it's supposed to test at? I dont.

 

[hangunnr]

The whole “working the bolt too hard” causing the damage narrative is silly as there isn’t any protrusion on the camming surface of the bolt to cause the deformation shown. There are multiple examples in this thread that show normal wear. My 7mag M70 is on it’s third barrel with untold numbers of rounds fired and shows absolutely nothing like what you presented here.
That action was either damaged when you got it and you didn’t catch it on initial inspection or was caused on your end. You wouldn’t be the first guy to screw up a new gun, it happens..... It would take a pretty hard strike to make a dent that size. How it happened at this point is irrelevant, you had a top tier ‘smith clear the obstruction so get out there and shoot it.

 

[Naaman]

The whole “working the bolt too hard” causing the damage narrative is silly as there isn’t any protrusion on the camming surface of the bolt to cause the deformation shown. There are multiple examples in this thread that show normal wear. My 7mag M70 is on it’s third barrel with untold numbers of rounds fired and shows absolutely nothing like what you presented here.
That action was either damaged when you got it and you didn’t catch it on initial inspection or was caused on your end. You wouldn’t be the first guy to screw up a new gun, it happens..... It would take a pretty hard strike to make a dent that size. How it happened at this point is irrelevant, you had a top tier ‘smith clear the obstruction so get out there and shoot it.

Haha! I know it sounds ridiculous, but literally the only thing this gun has ever experienced is dry fire. The fact that it happened is a head scratcher for me. I didn't "miss" it on initial inspection: the bolt came separate and was installed and removed twice prior to the issue developing.

The damage in the photo looks a lot more like a dent. In reality, you're seeing a weird glare causing an optical illusion. The pics from the side show it better. It was basically that the metal seemed to deform (smashed down, creating a burr on the underside of the lip), which caused the left side of the front of the bolt to drag on its way out (felt more like a snag).

In any case, the help I got here was awesome.