A bit of thunder in the morning always clears the effects of a hangover:
900 yards
900 yards
Maggie’s Motivational Pic Thread v2.0 - - New Rules - See Post #1
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Impressive air time! That was one expensive txt LOL.
So just how effective were the old soft lead rounds in stopping power and lethality? According to Elmer Keith, round ball loads "killed out of all proportion to it's size". Now I ain't Wild Bill Hickok and I ain't never used my '58 on two legged critters. But I tell ya one thing though: I ain't never had a hog that needed a second shot:
Did anyone else but me notice the loss of fingers. I have several friends over the years that lost fingers in their dally. Knock on wood it has never happened to me. When it happens it is fast and to late.
Don’t Fear the Walking Dead
Danay Garcia (actress) Fear the Walking Dead
She also shows her #11
That would violate the forum rules
Danay Garcia (actress) Fear the Walking Dead
She also shows her #11
That would violate the forum rules
Great if you want to kill some cinder blocks..
Winchester bulk FMJ w/ reloadable brass for the win
I got shit tons of dry storage boxes from those Cabelas orders placed over the years so when a coworker needs to move something or put something away for safekeeping: "Hey bud, I got some real nice plastic cases, dirt cheap". Win win for everyone.
Hard cast is still great for penetrating big game.
400 grains from a 45-70. It drops a lot but hard cast lead- heavy and slow really punches through big bone and fought hide.
For longer shots, the modern hunting bullet is preferred.
200 yard zero and you can hold on Fur out to 300-325 yards
The 9mm round fires into the cinder block- it looks like he is mainly holding the jacket.
It’s quite common for .223 ball to squirt the lead out it’s butt when it hits a cars windshield. Spinning so fast, the lead is almost liquid inside of the jacket. When the bullet hits a windshield, the lead squishes out of the real of the jacket.
.223/ 5.56 soft points are better for LEO as the base is sealed and the lead would be forced forward along with the jacket when shooting a windshield.
Velocity gives you a high KE number (1/2Mass x Velocity squared)
Penetration - is more a measurement of momentum Mass x velocity.
.40 cal was designed with the Hatcher formula in mind and will never be a crazy penetrator.
400 grains from a 45-70. It drops a lot but hard cast lead- heavy and slow really punches through big bone and fought hide.
For longer shots, the modern hunting bullet is preferred.
200 yard zero and you can hold on Fur out to 300-325 yards
The 9mm round fires into the cinder block- it looks like he is mainly holding the jacket.
It’s quite common for .223 ball to squirt the lead out it’s butt when it hits a cars windshield. Spinning so fast, the lead is almost liquid inside of the jacket. When the bullet hits a windshield, the lead squishes out of the real of the jacket.
.223/ 5.56 soft points are better for LEO as the base is sealed and the lead would be forced forward along with the jacket when shooting a windshield.
Velocity gives you a high KE number (1/2Mass x Velocity squared)
Penetration - is more a measurement of momentum Mass x velocity.
.40 cal was designed with the Hatcher formula in mind and will never be a crazy penetrator.
The fellows that shoot Nitro Express calibers all preach the gospel of hardcast when they go after the Big Five in Africa. When you got an enraged rhinoceros bearing down on you, the only reassuring thought you want in your mind is that you are about to send a 500-grain monolithic solid in his direction that will plow through all the flesh and muscle, slam into bone, drop 1.5 tons of kinetic energy and then some. Some of the most hard core shooters machine their own projectiles from a lathe, from scratch.
Or maybe the vodka bottle should have been put away a little sooner, impressive flight nonetheless.
As far as most effective pistol round goes I kinda have my own unscientific test of it. I was a fireman for many years. I also rode an ambulance part time most of that . I've been to a shit ton of GSW's. In my experience I have never had a live patient (victim) with a spent .45 case nearby. Now fact is if the person was alive it was a load and go so I wasn't standing around looking waiting for the LEO's to release us. Could be there were plenty of guy's with .45's in them we treated and got to the ER. But fact remains if the guy was dead there was a .45 involved a lot of the time.
I salute you for your service sir
At the ranges I shoot at there are quite a few firefighters and EMS hanging out. They have a lot of fellows in their ranks who are solidly pro gun and will defend the 2nd Amendment at all costs. A lot of them are military and Oath Keepers too. They are some of the coolest folks I know, yet when SHTF, they are all taking care of business, no nonsense. I am always grateful that when my own father was in respiratory distress and needed to go to the hospital asap, the FDNY EMT's who responded were absolutely professional and knew what they were doing.
That said, the reason why I got the Kahr M1911-PKZ as my main carry/HD gun is because I trust my life and safety to a .45 all day any day. And now with technical advances made in ammunition, we got things like FlexLocks and XTP, which greatly expand the usefulness of an already proven cartridge. My .45LC and .44 cap and ball are also pinnacles in the fight-stopper department. I don't think I have ever owned any mouseguns before.
I've always been a 45 guy myself, but with the advancement in 9mm projectiles, I find myself gravitating to 9mm, not that I remotely have experience with either.
With all these states and lower capacity mag restrictions, I would think we would see a resurgence of the 45acp for men anyway.
My EDC is a Sig 1911 .45 compact. 7 round mag means I have 15 available. If I need 15 of anything I need to choose my fights more carefully or get to be a better shot. I like my chances with 15 230 gr. JHP's
I think skilled shooters.... might lean towards the .45 - the round is not better- the marksmanship of the shooter is better
Fully understood, I bought a WC EDC X9, even though it does not have night sites, it's hard to imagine it not being quite handy to have in a pinch. And I hate double stacks, this just feels diff though.
Pretty sure many of the top shooters in the country are shooting 9mm in competition... Lower recoil and higher magazine capacity makes it a competitive advantage.
For CC, I personally don't think it matters if you're competent with either... I'm not relying on 1 round for defense, even if I'm shooting a 44 Mag... I'm pulling the trigger until the threat is gone. For that reason, I prefer the higher capacity 9mm gives me. Even in NY, I can easily carry a small gun with 10+1 9mm rounds (P365). I can't do that with even a full size 1911.
For CC, I personally don't think it matters if you're competent with either... I'm not relying on 1 round for defense, even if I'm shooting a 44 Mag... I'm pulling the trigger until the threat is gone. For that reason, I prefer the higher capacity 9mm gives me. Even in NY, I can easily carry a small gun with 10+1 9mm rounds (P365). I can't do that with even a full size 1911.
Even though the .45 ACP is clearly a round designed for smokeless powder, it retains most of the characteristics of the black powder cartridge revolver round: Heavy projectile, massive cross-section and moderate velocity/chamber pressure. And it was also one of the last rounds designed with horse-cavalry in mind.
My Kahr would always outshoot many 9mm service autos when we put them side by side in accuracy tests. My '58 Remington, using both percussion and cartridge, would perform better than 9mm's. Their ballistics are very similar to each other, even though the designs span almost 60 years of small arms evolution.
My wife's EDC is a BHP with a whole boat load of 115 JHP's. I think her chances are just as good as mine. Maybe better, she is one hell of a shot.
Hi,
Who cares what cartridge you want for your EDC pistol lol, because the pistols only job is to get you back to your rifle
It is not to keep you there fighting.....
5.7x28 goes through more shit than 9mm or 45acp....you know...just encase subject is wearing "heavy".
Sincerely,
Theis
Who cares what cartridge you want for your EDC pistol lol, because the pistols only job is to get you back to your rifle
It is not to keep you there fighting.....
5.7x28 goes through more shit than 9mm or 45acp....you know...just encase subject is wearing "heavy".
Sincerely,
Theis
A lot of police departments are going back to the 9mm. The arguements are lower cost of ammo, easier for novice shooters, faster follow-up shots due to lower felt recoil, and improved ballistics with newer ammo.
I told my Chief that I'd choose the heavier bullet every time. For me, its kinetic energy of a heavier bullet. I've killed enough deer to know that just about any bullet will kill given the correct placement. But the heavier bullets do better if the hit isn't the best placement.
I told my Chief that I'd choose the heavier bullet every time. For me, its kinetic energy of a heavier bullet. I've killed enough deer to know that just about any bullet will kill given the correct placement. But the heavier bullets do better if the hit isn't the best placement.
Back to the "Open Range" clip earlier. If you bean them, the difference between a 9mm and a 45 becomes one of rounds per magazine per platform, and less one of which makes a bigger hole. I can get 16 rounds (one in the chamber and 15 in the mag) in the same sized 9mm as your 1911 (e.g. Glock 19 vs 1911 compact).
Head shots change the equation in favor of more rounds = better, up to a point.
Head shots change the equation in favor of more rounds = better, up to a point.
Hi,
Who cares what cartridge you want for your EDC pistol lol, because the pistols only job is to get you back to your rifle
It is not to keep you there fighting.....
Its amazing how many people don't understand this simple concept.
In a gunfight like the one in the clip, the element of surprise would only last for the first couple of rounds fired. 2 or 3 shots at most. And then, all hell would break loose with rounds flying in both directions. By that stage, most of the combatants would be trying to find cover. The advantage will definitely go to the party who can lay down the highest volume of suppressive fire.
IDK of any situation where I'll need my EDC to get me back to my rifle... outside of SHTF apocalyptic type scenario. This isn't Ramadi, or Kabul... and I don't intend to keep fighting after the threat is nuetralized...
On the old TV shows they throw the gun when the ammo runs out. Never seen it work.
The old flintlock and caplock single-shot pistols were often built with rounded butts topped with a heavy brass or steel cap. This was so the pistol can be used as a club once the shot had been expended. If you find an actual original sample that had been used in warfare, the stocks may even have cracks, indicating that the previous owner of the gun had used it in that fashion.
Like Fig said, always have a backup... If the threat isn't down after emptying a mag or two, I'm probably f*cked anyways, but I'm not going down without a fight... whether that's the butt of my pistol, or the blade in my pocket. I'm not
I want to know what theoretical situation you expect to be in where 11 rounds of anything isn't going to stop the threat, on US Soil? Hell, 11 rounds of 22 shorts is going to stop the most dangerous threats in my area (humans).
EDC in the NE isn't the same as EDC in AK, or anywhere with Grizzlies. But out here, we don't have to worry about much worse than gang bangers, or their dogs...
Cartridge debate in Motivational Thread.
11 rounds would be gone pretty quick in a stressful situation. Most people would shoot even without a proper shot presented. Then your looking at your gun saying to yourself. "FUCK"
Well said. I was thinking that only on the lines of a Red Dawn type situation would it be necessary to have a full infantry battle load. And not to mention strength in numbers. Friends. In such a scenario, if you are entering a gun battle by yourself, you will be fucked.
In peacetime USA, the worst danger that an armed citizen would potentially face is probably going to be a mass shooter or a shooting assault by one or more members of a terrorist group like the Charlie Hebdo attack in France. In a situation like that, even if I am in the position to react effectively and neutralize the shooter or shooters, my BIGGEST concern would be that first responders arriving on scene might mistake ME as one of the perps and shoot me dead too. That is a very real danger that armed citizens must think about.
Is this the motivational caliber thread? I was looking for it. So what is best 9mm or .45 nipples. 5.7x28 is a bit light.
Hi,
Well the first one that comes to mind is mall shootings with multiple gunmen. Your 11 rounds ain't jack shit to neutralize the situation..but those 11 rounds to get you to your rifle is big shit
If pistols were the answer for everyday gunfights then my local PD should sell the 15,000 rifles they have and buy some more pistol ammo.
There is a reason every patrol vehicle has at least 1 rifle.
You must also realize that you are by far more likely to use your EDC for the protection of someone else rather than the protection of yourself. Since out of 100 people there are 99 that are not you..
Sincerely,
Theis
PS: Back to the titties.....
Fuck!
You guys with your "yada, yada, yada, blah blah, 45...blah blah, 45 shooters is better shooters...blah yada yada blah.....9mm fagopop, 40 Cal yada blaberty blubberty...."
Fuck you people are depressing! You are beginning to bore the hell out of me!
Post some more fat chicks on magazine covers, or Tucker ogling bikinis in court, but can we just...shut...the....FUCK up, about which pistol cartridge is best in a rifle fight?
You guys with your "yada, yada, yada, blah blah, 45...blah blah, 45 shooters is better shooters...blah yada yada blah.....9mm fagopop, 40 Cal yada blaberty blubberty...."
Fuck you people are depressing! You are beginning to bore the hell out of me!
Post some more fat chicks on magazine covers, or Tucker ogling bikinis in court, but can we just...shut...the....FUCK up, about which pistol cartridge is best in a rifle fight?
Is this the motivational caliber thread? I was looking for it. So what is best 9mm or .45 nipples. 5.7x28 is a bit light.
Hi,
Just for you FS1...
Sincerely.
Theis
Motivational music for all:
Simple Man - Charlie Daniels Band
Simple Man - Charlie Daniels Band
No problems. I will cite a friend here: "we may discuss the wound ballistics of different calibers all we want. But if I shoot the target in the face it doesn't matter". It was about the 4,6 HK vs 9 mil.
Lotta Buster Scruggs wanna be's around these days...
Did anyone else hear the General Lee's horn in their head when they watch that clip?
Which one is he?Definitely a Hermosa Beach arrest:
