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Gunsmithing Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

sawman556

sawman556

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Minuteman
Mar 16, 2012
1,203
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Bucks County, PA USA
I'm having a issue timing my new brake. It looks to me that I have run out of thread on my barrel and I still need to rotate the brake about 1/5 of a turn. Any way I can get some more thread on my barrel to allow me to achieve this? Could I buy a die and thread a little more by hand? Any ideas? Thanks.



muz01.jpg

muz02.jpg

muz04.jpg
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

I would counter bore the inside of the brake.
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

Wouldn't the shoulder face or whatever its called that you're pointing to with the pen in the last pic need to be machined ever so slightly on a lathe?
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would counter bore the inside of the brake. </div></div>

+1
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would counter bore the inside of the brake. </div></div>

This.
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slowkota</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wouldn't the shoulder face or whatever its called that you're pointing to with the pen in the last pic need to be machined ever so slightly on a lathe?

</div></div>

You might be onto it there: Looks like there might be a radius at the shoulder root that's holding the brake from seating completely. You might try cutting a slightly deeper relief there, or (perhaps) better, a small chamfer on the brake since it's more'n likely the cheaper part.
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

That radius on the barrel shoulder could be part of the problem, and as already mentioned by some of the best smiths on here, you may also need to counterbore the brake.
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

Educate me here...

Why do most of the muzzle thread jobs I see leave the shoulder area at the MAJOR diameter of the threads, and then, even worse, leave a radius at the actual shoulder???

It won't take 2 minutes to relieve that shoulder and it seems it causes problems in many cases. I know it has for me.

OP, sorry to hijack your thread, but this is a very common problem, and I have had to cut many brakes, like everyone is telling you to do.
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

Problem is guys , I kind of want to remedy by hand. I chamfered the inside of the brake so the small radius on the barrel shoulder should not be the problem. When you say counter bore the brake does this mean removing some thread?
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

Counter boring the thread means you basically take out a couple threads by boring the rear of the BRAKE out square. It can be done with a dremel if you don't have access to a lathe but a lathe would do it better. It looks like the threads in the brake are hitting the end of the threaded portion of the barrel before it seats against the shoulder on the barrel itself. The barrel should have had a thread relief cut with a nice radius tool so that the threads on the brake wouldn't bottom out like it appears they are doing. You would need a lathe to do that as a dremel would be a bad idea. On some barrels it seems there is no thread relief cut because it takes a little more time and effort. Most of the AR 15 barrels come to mind here. The makers use things like crush washers, bellville washers or some other spacer to keep the muzzle device from bottoming out on the threads. If you can seat it against the shoulder you're much better off.

Good luck

Frank
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

I have a drill press. Can it be done on that? Will it throw my timing off to where I would have to start over? And if I remove a few threads won't I need to chase it to get it to thread back on? Should I order a tap from Grainger 5/8x24?
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

I'm wondering how is issue even came up?

did you decide to change brakes or was that brake just improperly installed ?

the barrel thread job looks fine , I would not suggest relief cutting the back side of the male threads but rather modify the brake itself

to be done properly I'd send it to sombody that knows what they are doing
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

I had the barrel threaded locally by someone that didnt give a shit about how the brake looked or worked. It seems he did an ok job on the threading since he is a machinist by trade. He did , however, ruin my APA LB by running it down past what I told him to do. On top of that the ID on the interior of the brake was big enough to drive a 50 through. So I ended up with a brake that did nothing but make noise. I was able to make it look ok but it was also off time. So I decided to replace the brake. First was a PWS PRC which sucks. Not only that but the company has not sent me the washers I needed for it going on 3 weeks.

So I picked up this brake from Ross Schuler which is very well made. He tapered it to .860 to match my barrel and also ID it. And had it to me in less then a week for less then half the cost of the other brakes.

I can either use a washer which I would rather not do or time it. I deciding timing it would be best. I already got it from the two o'clock position to where I am now. All I need is it to move a little more.

I was hoping that I might be able to do it myself. That is why I posted it here. I would rather not have to send it to someone that knows what they are doing.
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: biffj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Counter boring the thread means you basically take out a couple threads by boring the rear of the BRAKE out square. It can be done with a dremel if you don't have access to a lathe but a lathe would do it better. It looks like the threads in the brake are hitting the end of the threaded portion of the barrel before it seats against the shoulder on the barrel itself. The barrel should have had a thread relief cut with a nice radius tool so that the threads on the brake wouldn't bottom out like it appears they are doing. You would need a lathe to do that as a dremel would be a bad idea. On some barrels it seems there is no thread relief cut because it takes a little more time and effort. Most of the AR 15 barrels come to mind here. The makers use things like crush washers, bellville washers or some other spacer to keep the muzzle device from bottoming out on the threads. If you can seat it against the shoulder you're much better off.

Good luck

Frank</div></div>
Us the crush washer!
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

Yes, It can be done on a drill press if you're careful.

You should be able to get by without having to chase the threads.
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, It can be done on a drill press if you're careful.

You should be able to get by without having to chase the threads. </div></div>

Thank you sir.
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That radius on the barrel shoulder could be part of the problem, and as already mentioned by some of the best smiths on here, you may also need to counterbore the brake. </div></div>
Yes! the radius. and also check the diameter of the un threaded part.
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: X Ring Accuracy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That radius on the barrel shoulder could be part of the problem, and as already mentioned by some of the best smiths on here, you may also need to counterbore the brake. </div></div>
Yes! the radius. and also check the diameter of the un threaded part. </div></div>

I'll check it tomorrow. I'm knee deep in Glocks and shotguns to Cerakote ATM.
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sawman556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would rather not have to send it to someone that knows what they are doing. </div></div>

This explains everything, saved a bunch of time it looks like!!!
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

I got it done. I ended up back boring it on my drill press. It took very little to get it to run all the way on. It came out good. I'm going to get it to the range later today and see how it does. The brake was the last piece to the rifle I spent the summer getting it how I want it. Hopefully I'll get time to Cerakote it this week.

I can't post pics because my fucking "s" button isn't working on my PC. Can't even put my password in to get on. I'll have to pic up a new keyboard today and get the screwdriver out that I drove through that other fuckin' POS.

I don't know how to post pics on this damn iPad thingy.

Thanks for the help.
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

how much larger than the bullet diameter is the exit hole on the new brake? if the original threading job is questionable, i'd be really careful about just screwing a new brake on without knowing if the bore is concentric with the exit hole of the brake.
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

It's about .330. It looks to be concentric. I'm going to check it out with a good rod before I take it out. The threading was actually fine it was the brake that was messed up.

I was just going to tie a string to the trigger and hide in the bed of my truck.
smile.gif
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

Looks like 5/8 X 28 threads...probably take (very carefully) less than 10/1000s off with a file...
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

one other way is get a surefire mounting kit ...use the black colored base ring with timing shims ....
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

Got to the range and the brake was effective. I can now spot my own shots.

One thing though. I had this thing timed perfectly, as tight as I could get it by hand. After the barrel warmed up it was a little loose so I tightened it up again by had and noticed it was now out of time. Just a little bit past 12 o'clock. Is this normal? Is there a fix?
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sawman556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would rather not have to send it to someone that knows what they are doing.</div></div>

You get what you pay for.
If you don't have access to a lathe to do it right, then shim it.
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sawman556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had this thing timed perfectly, as tight as I could get it by hand. After the barrel warmed up it was a little loose so I tightened it up again by had and noticed it was now out of time. Just a little bit past 12 o'clock. Is this normal? Is there a fix? </div></div>

If you only timed it with hand tension, it was not fully tightened.
You should fully tighten it on before making the final timing cuts to actually know how much to cut.
Now you will need to either go around again to proper index, or shim it.

If you are working on 28tpi threads, the math is super easy... 0.001" per 10 degrees of index required.
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

Got some pics. The muzzle brake is timed fine. I think I was seeing shit at the range.

w310.jpg


w311.jpg


w302.jpg


w304.jpg
 
Re: Muzzle break/thread/timing help???

Looks good to me, going to use the same ones on my stuff. Let us know how it works.
 
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