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My 243+Shooter app=confusing.

TannerGun

TannerGun

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 12, 2012
265
0
31
Colorado!
#1
Alright guys... I got to shoot er at a little longer range today, went out to 530 and let it rip. But... I'm perplexed.

Checked my zero before I backed up, exactly 3 inches at 100, dead center. Backed up, and missed about 4 times. I went back up to my target, and I'd been shooting over it (I expected to be a little off, my velocity input in Shooter was just a ballpark guess.) So, I went back out, dialed my scope back down, and started nailing the gong.

Here is the weird part... I only needed 3.5 MOA of up to hit at 530 yards. WTF. That would mean my MV would be close to 3300 FPS I believe. Granted, I was shooting slightly downhill, but I still dont' think that would make this much of a difference. Shooter was telling me to dial a bunch more ele than I ended up needing. My zero is entered as Zero Range: 100 Zero Height: 3.0in

Here's the info for the load/atmosphere:
105 AMAX- 49 gr Retumbo, CCI 250. COAL of 2.8

7300 feet ASL, 29.73inHg, 39 degrees, 75 percent humidity.

Somebody has gotta have an idea of WTF this is about.
 
#2
Re: My 243+Shooter app=confusing.

I'm running 49.2g of imr7828sc behind a 105 and getting 3180.
Retumbo is a slower powder I think.

I just put your numbers into JBM, If you are counting your clicks right your MV would be over 3400 fps. That's hot.

What you're loading is the max load according to Hodgdon, the manual says 2986 fps. Are you seated into the lands or jumping the bullet? Did the primers flatten or any puddling on the headstamp? Sticky bolts?

Either you counted your clicks wrong, your scope is taking elevation wrong, your distance is wrong or you are running on the ragged edge of dangerous. If it was me I would be careful about going down the mountain or shooting on a warmer day with that load in your rifle until I verified what was happening.
 
#4
Re: My 243+Shooter app=confusing.

I'm just off the lands. I've worked up to 49 grains and found that it was the best load I shot using Retumbo. My primers and bolt lift are indicative of a totally safe load, so I really don't think my MV could be that high, so that is why I'm totally baffled. I know that there was 3.5 minutes of elevation dialed in, and I know I was 530 yards out.

Ouch, yes I'm 3" at 100, and I plugged that into shooter.
 
#6
Re: My 243+Shooter app=confusing.

Have you found this to be a more precise way to use the program? I had thought about doing that as well, because it does seem things can get a bit wonky in "translation" using an elevated zero at 100.
 
#7
Re: My 243+Shooter app=confusing.

Your zero height has to do with scope height. Just zero it out and use the velocity tool for 100-600 yard dope to match up. Then use bc for 600-3000 dope.
 
#9
Re: My 243+Shooter app=confusing.

Taken from JBM

Is this what your bullet is doing?
Look down at the 100 yd row and the 500 yd row that I bolded up.

Either you made a mistake somewhere, JBM made a mistake or you are running over 3400 fps?



Input Data
Manufacturer: Hornady Description: A-Max®
Caliber: 0.243 in Weight: 105.0 gr
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.500 G1
Muzzle Velocity: 3400.0 ft/s Distance to Chronograph: 10.0 ft
Sight Height: 1.50 in Sight Offset: 0.00 in
Zero Height: 3.00 in Zero Offset: 0.00 in
Windage: 0.000 MOA Elevation: 0.000 MOA
Line Of Sight Angle: -5.0 deg Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Wind Angle: 90.0 deg
Target Speed: 10.0 mph Target Angle: 90.0 deg
Target Height: 16.0 in
Temperature: 39.0 °F Pressure: 29.73 in Hg
Humidity: 75.0 % Altitude: 7300.0 ft
Vital Zone Radius: 2.0 in
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Mark Sound Barrier Crossing: Yes Include Extra Rows: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 5.777 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.06011 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1094.7 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 295 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 252 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 146 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 2001.9 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.254 lb/in²


<span style="font-weight: bold">Calculated Table</span>


<span style="font-weight: bold">Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)</span>
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 3405.7 3.111 2703.8 0.000 0.0 ***
10 -0.9 -8.7 0.0 0.0 3388.7 3.095 2676.8 0.009 1.6 14.8
20 -0.4 -1.7 0.0 0.1 3371.7 3.080 2650.0 0.018 3.1 14.9
30 0.2 0.6 0.0 0.1 3354.8 3.064 2623.6 0.027 4.7 14.9
40 0.7 1.6 0.1 0.1 3338.0 3.049 2597.3 0.036 6.3 15.0
50 1.1 2.2 0.1 0.2 3321.2 3.034 2571.3 0.045 7.8 15.0
60 1.6 2.5 0.1 0.2 3304.5 3.018 2545.5 0.054 9.4 15.0
70 2.0 2.7 0.2 0.3 3287.9 3.003 2520.0 0.063 11.0 15.1
80 2.4 2.8 0.3 0.3 3271.4 2.988 2494.7 0.072 12.7 15.1
90 2.7 2.9 0.3 0.3 3254.9 2.973 2469.6 0.081 14.3 15.1
<span style="font-weight: bold">100 <span style="text-decoration: underline"> 3.0</span> 2.9 0.4 0.4 3238.5 2.958 2444.8 0.090 15.9 15.2</span>
110 3.3 2.8 0.5 0.4 3222.1 2.943 2420.2 0.100 17.5 15.2
120 3.5 2.8 0.6 0.5 3205.8 2.928 2395.8 0.109 19.2 15.3
130 3.7 2.7 0.7 0.5 3189.6 2.913 2371.6 0.118 20.8 15.3
140 3.9 2.7 0.8 0.5 3173.5 2.899 2347.6 0.128 22.5 15.3
150 4.0 2.6 0.9 0.6 3157.4 2.884 2323.9 0.137 24.2 15.4
160 4.1 2.5 1.0 0.6 3141.3 2.869 2300.3 0.147 25.8 15.4
170 4.2 2.4 1.2 0.7 3125.4 2.854 2277.0 0.156 27.5 15.5
180 4.2 2.3 1.3 0.7 3109.5 2.840 2253.9 0.166 29.2 15.5
190 4.2 2.1 1.5 0.7 3093.6 2.825 2230.9 0.176 30.9 15.5
200 4.2 2.0 1.6 0.8 3077.8 2.811 2208.2 0.185 32.6 15.6
210 4.1 1.9 1.8 0.8 3062.1 2.797 2185.7 0.195 34.3 15.6
220 4.0 1.7 2.0 0.9 3046.4 2.782 2163.4 0.205 36.1 15.7
230 3.9 1.6 2.2 0.9 3030.8 2.768 2141.3 0.215 37.8 15.7
240 3.7 1.5 2.4 0.9 3015.3 2.754 2119.4 0.225 39.6 15.7
250 3.5 1.3 2.6 1.0 2999.8 2.740 2097.6 0.235 41.3 15.8
260 3.2 1.2 2.8 1.0 2984.3 2.725 2076.1 0.245 43.1 15.8
270 2.9 1.0 3.0 1.1 2968.9 2.711 2054.7 0.255 44.9 15.9
280 2.6 0.9 3.2 1.1 2953.6 2.697 2033.6 0.265 46.6 15.9
290 2.2 0.7 3.5 1.1 2938.3 2.683 2012.6 0.275 48.4 15.9
300 1.8 0.6 3.7 1.2 2923.1 2.669 1991.8 0.285 50.2 16.0
310 1.3 0.4 4.0 1.2 2907.9 2.656 1971.2 0.296 52.0 16.0
320 0.8 0.2 4.3 1.3 2892.8 2.642 1950.8 0.306 53.9 16.1
330 0.2 0.1 4.5 1.3 2877.8 2.628 1930.5 0.316 55.7 16.1
340 -0.3 -0.1 4.8 1.4 2862.8 2.614 1910.4 0.327 57.5 16.2
350 -1.0 -0.3 5.1 1.4 2847.8 2.601 1890.5 0.337 59.4 16.2
360 -1.6 -0.4 5.4 1.4 2832.9 2.587 1870.8 0.348 61.2 16.2
370 -2.4 -0.6 5.8 1.5 2818.1 2.573 1851.2 0.359 63.1 16.3
380 -3.1 -0.8 6.1 1.5 2803.3 2.560 1831.8 0.369 65.0 16.3
390 -3.9 -1.0 6.4 1.6 2788.5 2.546 1812.6 0.380 66.9 16.4
400 -4.8 -1.1 6.8 1.6 2773.8 2.533 1793.6 0.391 68.8 16.4
410 -5.6 -1.3 7.1 1.7 2759.2 2.519 1774.7 0.402 70.7 16.5
420 -6.6 -1.5 7.5 1.7 2744.6 2.506 1755.9 0.412 72.6 16.5
430 -7.6 -1.7 7.9 1.7 2730.0 2.493 1737.4 0.423 74.5 16.6
440 -8.6 -1.9 8.3 1.8 2715.5 2.480 1719.0 0.434 76.5 16.6
450 -9.7 -2.1 8.7 1.8 2701.1 2.466 1700.7 0.446 78.4 16.6
460 -10.8 -2.2 9.1 1.9 2686.7 2.453 1682.6 0.457 80.4 16.7
470 -12.0 -2.4 9.5 1.9 2672.3 2.440 1664.7 0.468 82.3 16.7
480 -13.2 -2.6 9.9 2.0 2658.0 2.427 1646.9 0.479 84.3 16.8
490 -14.5 -2.8 10.4 2.0 2643.7 2.414 1629.3 0.490 86.3 16.8
500 -15.8 -3.0 10.8 2.1 2629.5 2.401 1611.8 0.502 88.3 16.9
510 -17.1 -3.2 11.3 2.1 2615.4 2.388 1594.5 0.513 90.3 16.9
520 -18.6 -3.4 11.8 2.2 2601.2 2.375 1577.3 0.525 92.4 17.0
<span style="font-weight: bold">530 -20.0 <span style="text-decoration: underline">-3.6</span> 12.2 2.2 2587.1 2.362 1560.3 0.536 94.4 17.0</span>
540 -21.6 -3.8 12.7 2.3 2573.1 2.349 1543.4 0.548 96.4 17.1
550 -23.1 -4.0 13.3 2.3 2559.1 2.336 1526.6 0.560 98.5 17.1
560 -24.8 -4.2 13.8 2.3 2545.2 2.324 1510.0 0.571 100.6 17.1
570 -26.4 -4.4 14.3 2.4 2531.3 2.311 1493.6 0.583 102.6 17.2
580 -28.2 -4.6 14.8 2.4 2517.4 2.298 1477.3 0.595 104.7 17.2
590 -30.0 -4.8 15.4 2.5 2503.6 2.286 1461.1 0.607 106.8 17.3
600 -31.8 -5.1 16.0
 
#10
Re: My 243+Shooter app=confusing.

DFOOSKING- I understand now that having a 3 inch high zero kinda boned me on the whole comeups from shooter. Now that you mention it, It did say about 6.5 minutes.

I changed my zero height to 0", and it's now telling me 9 MOA of up to get to 530, which seems much more viable.

On Quickload, this load is supposedly running about 2890.
 
#18
Re: My 243+Shooter app=confusing.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TannerGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where'd you get that number? Not arguing it, just curious. Checking the weather programs, it says the barometer is at 30inHg right now.</div></div>

You cannot go by the weather stations/Airports. My local airport now says 30.00. My wrist watch and Kestrel are dead on with each other at 22.60 asl is 7560'
 
#19
Re: My 243+Shooter app=confusing.

This is why most guys will put a "real" zero at 100. In your case, you don't really know the yardage your zero is. If you start at 100, you can go from there to your limit. As others have said, you had over 6moa for the shot because of the 3 built in. Get a real good zero at 100 and shoot for drops. With my 6.5AI, I had to tweak the bc and vel. to get my midrange drops to match when using a 100y zero and the known drop at 1000, but it was close with the rough figures. The best part is shooting to confirm.
 
#21
Re: My 243+Shooter app=confusing.

I'm still a bit confused about my elevation. I know that I had 'preloaded' 3 MOA by having a 3" high zero at 100, and then when I dialed up to 6.5 MOA, I was then at 9 MOA. And I then shot high, dialed back to 3.5 MOA, and was on target.

But now with a zero height of 0", shooter tells me 9 MOA to get to 530. Won't I still shoot way high? Don't I only need 6.5 MOA? To achieve that on the table, my velocity would have to be screaming.
 
#24
Re: My 243+Shooter app=confusing.

Thanks man. My sight height is all good, 1.75 inches, and I zeroed out the zero height. My Shooter is set up to the local stations, but one of these guys pointed out that the baro pressure at 7300 feet is actually about 23.1 inHg, so i entered that.

I'm going to try to chrono my load today, and try to start getting my own dope like you said. I figure 530 is a good place to start, and then move back. Only bummer is.... We got about a foot of snow last night

Thanks again.
 
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