My First .223

[crazy8]

A friend of mine and I have been talking a lot about going prairie dog shooting next summer in South Dakota. I have always wanted to get a .223 and now I have a reason too. Anyway, I have been a bit torn on what to get. It seems that it'd need to be $1000 or less (based on my findings and budget) and I have been even looking into using .224 which is said to be a more stable round than .223. I have also been torn in regards to a good make/model to pick. I would like a good platform to possibly build from, and or a great shooter right out of the box. It seems to me that some of the good choices would be a Savage Axis, a Bergara B-14, Tikka T-3, and more towards the bottom (supposedly), a Remington 700 .223. I have a 700 30-06 and like it a lot. My original thought was an AR style gun, maybe a DPMS? However, I am leaning much more towards the bolt action rifles. This gun will likely be used more for things like target shooting, prairie doggin, and maybe other similar activities. I guess what I am hoping for is some more focused direction and opinion on this. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

 

[spife7980]

For prairie dogging are you going to be trying to hit them past 500 yards or the more normal 300 tops?

Most prairie doggers like to push the lighter bullets faster for flat trajectories but they peter out at long distance faster than the slower heavy bullets in addition to getting pushed around by wing.

In any case youre going to want the thickest heaviest barrel you can get so it doesnt wander once you get it hot and youre probably not going to be carrying it all that far either.

Something like this Howa would be nice and bedding it into a boyds would be just dandy but theres also the KRG bravo among other options.

 

[BurnOut]

Formula for inexpensive prairie dog hunting:

• Used short action Savage (any short action will do; replacement bolt heads are ~$65 from PTG) and a heavy contour 26" 7-twist pre-fit barrel (will also need a .223 Rem GO gauge and barrel nut wrench)
• upgraded trigger (Rifle Basix or similar)
• Boyd's stock (whichever one is most comfortable to you)
• decent optic with 20x or better on the top end (FFP and a hold-off/Christmas tree reticle are nice options if you can foot the bill)
• Fiocchi 50 gr ballistic tip ammo

Don't worry about magazine feeding, single feeding is just fine for prairie dog hunting... they're stupid critters that will shake the dirt off from a near miss and allow you to take a second shot 10+ seconds later.

Do whatever other farkling you like (bolt handle, etc...) in order to set the gun up the way you want it... but the basics as stated above will get you in business and blowing up PLENTY of prairie dogs on the (relatively) cheap. Don't forget to keep an eye on barrel temps, and pay attention to your accuracy (read: you may have to clean your barrel in the field). Take plenty of ammo, and shoot a lot... as previously mentioned, 'dogs are stupid, so if you blow a shot, odds are that you will have the same shot available to you soon afterwards.

 

[crazy8]

For prairie dogging are you going to be trying to hit them past 500 yards or the more normal 300 tops?

Most prairie doggers like to push the lighter bullets faster for flat trajectories but they peter out at long distance faster than the slower heavy bullets in addition to getting pushed around by wing.

In any case youre going to want the thickest heaviest barrel you can get so it doesnt wander once you get it hot and youre probably not going to be carrying it all that far either.

Something like this Howa would be nice and bedding it into a boyds would be just dandy but theres also the KRG bravo among other options.

Thank you for that. I am thinking more of the 300 yard ballpark. At least for now. It all has to start somewhere right? lol But yeah there wont be much carrying happening so weight wont be a real issue. I also have found that flat trajectories is also desired, at least for this type of application.

I have been doing some looking on the "Precision Rifles.....Show Em" post and for hearing a few folks make Rem. 700's sound like a joke, it seems that's not the case with how many people use that platform. I'm not at all surprised that it's liked by so many (a big reason that I own one), but surprised that a few people felt like they were crap.

I will definitely look into the options you've mentioned. Thanks again.

 

[crazy8]

Formula for inexpensive prairie dog hunting:

• Used short action Savage (any short action will do; replacement bolt heads are ~$65 from PTG) and a heavy contour 26" 7-twist pre-fit barrel (will also need a .223 Rem GO gauge and barrel nut wrench)
• upgraded trigger (Rifle Basix or similar)
• Boyd's stock (whichever one is most comfortable to you)
• decent optic with 20x or better on the top end (FFP and a hold-off/Christmas tree reticle are nice options if you can foot the bill)
• Fiocchi 50 gr ballistic tip ammo

Don't worry about magazine feeding, single feeding is just fine for prairie dog hunting... they're stupid critters that will shake the dirt off from a near miss and allow you to take a second shot 10+ seconds later.

Do whatever other farkling you like (bolt handle, etc...) in order to set the gun up the way you want it... but the basics as stated above will get you in business and blowing up PLENTY of prairie dogs on the (relatively) cheap. Don't forget to keep an eye on barrel temps, and pay attention to your accuracy (read: you may have to clean your barrel in the field). Take plenty of ammo, and shoot a lot... as previously mentioned, 'dogs are stupid, so if you blow a shot, odds are that you will have the same shot available to you soon afterwards.

Holy cows. I am going to start looking into all of that right now. Thanks for taking the time to lay all of that out.

 

[spife7980]

Thank you for that. I am thinking more of the 300 yard ballpark. At least for now. It all has to start somewhere right? lol But yeah there wont be much carrying happening so weight wont be a real issue. I also have found that flat trajectories is also desired, at least for this type of application.

I have been doing some looking on the "Precision Rifles.....Show Em" post and for hearing a few folks make Rem. 700's sound like a joke, it seems that's not the case with how many people use that platform. I'm not at all surprised that it's liked by so many (a big reason that I own one), but surprised that a few people felt like they were crap.

I will definitely look into the options you've mentioned. Thanks again.

I have a rem 700 223 and while it was an alright shooter its much better with a new barrel on it. Still doesnt have any primary extraction though. The stock xmark trigger is shit and the hogue stock it came with is shit. The only thing left on it is just the action and I have half a mind to send it off to be trued up but Im also not going to sink more money into a rem action.

The savage option burnout mentioned is also a good route, especially if you dont mind screwing the barrel on yourself; an aftermarket barrel will be the best. You screw the barrel in and the go gauge acts as a depth stop and once you hit that you just tighten down the barrel nut (jam nut) and youre good to go. Youll add a piece of scotch tape onto the back of the go gauge and youll have fashioned yourself a nogo gauge as a safety check.


The 9 twist I linked is good for bullets up to 69 grains. 8 twist is good to 80s and a 7 twist is best for 80+. If you only ever want to shoot 55 gr tops though then a 12 twist will be adequate (mostly cheap guns are twisted this slow these days). The 55gr will still be fine at 300.

 

[supercorndogs]

I have a 700 XCR long range 223, its probably the most accurate factory rifle I have owned. It has a lot of prairie dog blood on its hands. Lots of 55 v max, then I switched to the 53 v max for a little better B.C. You are on the right track. If you are traveling for prairie dogs must haves, 10/22 with lots of ammo, 223 with lots of ammo, for extra fun, something that shoots super fast 22-250, 22 creed, 40g varmint bullets, something to shoot far. Shooting long distance at prairie dogs is mostly a choice.

Too bad my remington is a 1 in 9 though, about the best B.C I can get is the 77SMK. Its been through a couple thousand of them.

For shooting prairie dogs out to 300 or so with a 223, I would take an AR-15 with any BDC reticle scope. Trying to push a 223 farther a deep throated bolt action is more desirable. If the rifle is going to cut into the ammo budget, I would get about the cheapest 223 bolt action i could find.

 

[1500varmint]

I've never been prairie dog hunting, but how about a scout-type rifle like a Ruger Scout rifle or Mossberg MVP?

 

[crazy8]

Out of curiosity, would it be even better to look into .224 Valkyrie over .223?

 

[b6graham]

Out of curiosity, would it be even better to look into .224 Valkyrie over .223?

if you reload, maybe. otherwise you're looking at 75gr min for factory

 

[Roo_man]

Can't go wrong with a Tikka

 

[BurnOut]

Out of curiosity, would it be even better to look into .224 Valkyrie over .223?

Not in my opinion, especially given the ranges that you're talking about. Using a regular .223, you can reach on out to 450+ yards easily enough, especially if you time your shots between wind gusts (or are shooting with the wind in your face or at your back). With a .223, I have even popped some at 600-650 yards (though my hit percentage was pretty dismal).

I seem to have some kind of illness where I am seeking the ultimate prairie dog rig, and so far I have tried the following:

• Rem 700 in .223 (20-inch barrel)
  • Great gun, but the short-ish barrel killed it for prairie dog hunting... I had a lot more drift and needed to be dead on with my distance calls in order to make a hit (read: I had lower velocity than my buddies shooting longer barrels)
• Rock River .223 AR (18-inch barrel)
  • See above, re: barrel length, but the other thing about a semi-auto is that it's just too damned easy to make a fast follow-up shot if you blow the first shot... which, since I was pissed off that the first one missed, meant that I rushed the second shot and missed that one, too. And the third, and the... you get the idea
• DTA w/ SAC .223 conversion (26-inch barrel)
  • This is the gun I used to make some of my 600+ yard hits; the issue is that it REALLY doesn't like to be single-fed, and loading the magazine takes up time I'd rather be on the glass looking for another critter to blow up
• Tikka T3 in .204 Ruger (26-inch barrel)
  • This is my first truly purpose-built prairie dog gun, and I'm happy with it; it doesn't shoot Fiocchi .204 Ruger as well as all of the above guns shoot Fiocchi .223, but I'm in the process of developing my own loads to take with me this next year
• In progress: Howa mini action in .223 AI (26-inch barrel)
  • This, too, will be a purpose-built prairie dog gun, and I'm taking it as a second gun to shoot while the .204 cools; besides, variety is the spice of life

All of that being said, one of my buddies in the group shoots a Savage just like I described above, and it is in no way a hindrance to him. He hits AT LEAST as many as I do, and has spent a fraction as much on guns and glass.

 

[BurnOut]

I've never been prairie dog hunting, but how about a scout-type rifle like a Ruger Scout rifle or Mossberg MVP?

While I wouldn't say that you couldn't use one of those rifles for prairie dog hunting, I'll say that they'd be a bit out of their element in that use case. Kinda like driving a nail with a pipe wrench... it can be done, but there are better uses for that particular tool. The short/light barrel is what would be the main hindrance for prairie dog hunting, IMO.

 

[supercorndogs]

300 yard prairie dogs isn't driving nails. 3-4 MOA targets, its more like whack a mole. Start pushing it out further it gets more complicated.

 

[BurnOut]

300 yard prairie dogs isn't driving nails. 3-4 MOA targets, its more like whack a mole. Start pushing it out further it gets more complicated.

My favorite part of every 'dog hunt is when you scare the ones in the 100-200 yard range into their holes and spend an hour or so shooting at 300+ yards... then notice that there is a lot of activity in the 100-200 yard range again. After shooting at 300+, a 'dog at 150 yards CAN. NOT. BE. MISSED. It's like falling out of bed and hitting the floor... you couldn't miss it if you tried. You just hold dead on, push the trigger, and watch the show. Before the guts have even landed, you've ejected that case and are in the process of loading another one while you select your next victim.

 

[101stinfantry]

I'm gonna vote T3X/Lite Varmint.

 

[supercorndogs]

Its funny how they go down when you are shooting at them, but come back up once you start shooting over them. If you find the right places you can drive around in the pickup shooting them off the window. I have places I like to go where the opportunities start at 600y also. because shooting far is fun and challenging.

 

[Bender]

.223 is plenty. I have popped them at 650 with 55fmj-bt at 3000fps or so. I use my rem 700 Tac with 20” bull barrel and a suppressor. And a SWFA fixed 10x scope. Factory trigger, floppy hogue and factory barrel and action. I actually like the stock because it grips on my driver window and does not slide around like a hard/slick stock does. I love it.

When i burn out the barrel, I want a 22” AI heavy barrel. Maybe even a PROOF CF.

 

[mcfred]

I've had success with the CZ 527 Varmint micro mauser bolt action for PD-ing. They're offering 1:9 twists on the .223Rem models lately and have shot 50 Vmax 50 SMK, 50 Noslers and 69gr SMKs very well in two different rifles.

If you're wanting to use it for long range steel matches they're limited by the magazine length (~2.340" max) and capacity (5 rounds) though that hasn't stopped me from trying (I got 3rd overall and 2nd in my .223 Rem class this last weekend at my monthly local match versus 14 other competitors).

I have shot a few friends' Howa Mini .223 Rems and they shoot well too despite the plastic furniture and original $350 purchase price. They're similar to the CZ 527 in OAL limitation but have 10-round plastic magazines. Matt from Legacy Sports says they're supposed to be released with an 8 twist (up from 1:9) sometime soon. If the standard sized Howa 1500 short action is at all similar the barreled-action should be quite nice.

Savages may be accurate but the last one I shot felt pretty cheap with all the stamped parts and loose feel working the bolt. They're not my cup of tea no matter how accurate they are.

Remington 700s are fine, but they could use a lot more polish between the poor primary extraction, poor fit-and-finish and crap triggers. There are a lot of them out there so the aftermarket supports that platform quite well.

Tikkas I hear are great but they have one size action: long. The thing's overkill for the little .223 Rem. however that extra length may come in handy if you want to shoot the 80+ grain VLD/ELD stuff for long range.

Good luck, you have a lot of options.

 

[Codiekfx400]

This is the king of prairie dog rifles on a budget. https://tsswarehouse.com/shop/stag-...-bull-barrel-10rd-black-stag-arms-stag800002/ If you have more money to spend woa makes a nice varmimt upper. Or keystone accuracy can build you one with a Krieger barrel. While that is cooling you will need another rifle to play with. If money is a concern get a 17hmr. If money is not a concern get a 223 bolt action magazine fed. If hand loading the 50 gr. Vmax works great. If buying factory ammo Ae223gtv is what you want. This is helpful but not necessary https://www.natchezss.com/caldwell-stable-table-deluxe-bench.html

 

[supercorndogs]

.223 is plenty. I have popped them at 650 with 55fmj-bt at 3000fps or so. I use my rem 700 Tac with 20” bull barrel and a suppressor. And a SWFA fixed 10x scope. Factory trigger, floppy hogue and factory barrel and action. I actually like the stock because it grips on my driver window and does not slide around like a hard/slick stock does. I love it.

When i burn out the barrel, I want a 22” AI heavy barrel. Maybe even a PROOF CF.

View attachment 6970677View attachment 6970679

I like a fairly dense pillow to drape over the window.

 

[Codiekfx400]

I like a fairly dense pillow to drape over the window.

You can always take a pool noodle and cut it in half then cut it lengthwise and it will snugly fit on the top of a half rolled down window.