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need a flinching cure

T

tinman52

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Minuteman
Aug 27, 2008
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I just started shooting long guns again after a 30 year break and found out I have a flinching problem. I didn't realize I had one or how bad it really is until a friend watched me shoot. Equipment is a Remington 5r in 308. Any suggestions guys?

thanks

mike
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Dry fire alot.

When at the range with a friend,let him load your rifle, sometimes live, sometimes not. No peeking now. It'll go away real soon.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

+1 on dry fire. Also have a friend load your rifle and throw a snap cap in somewhere in the mag or no snap cap at all or a couple of snap caps mixed with live rounds.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Go get a good suppressor from TBAC(Zac,Ray,or Shane) and keep shooting.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Find a light recoiler to practice with. I have a recurring flinch. Every year about deer season I end up sighting bunches of deer rifles for friends. Seems like every is a magnum with a short eye relief scope. After a while I have to break out my rimfire and do a bit of shooting before I can break it.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Irisharrow beat me to it. A Suppressor might help.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Thanks for all the replies. I wish we could have suppressers in DE. That would be sweet, however it ain't happening. I'm going on a steady diet of dry firing as of this week. So, I'll let you know how it goes.

Mike
 
Re: need a flinching cure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniper7369</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 on dry fire. Also have a friend load your rifle and throw a snap cap in somewhere in the mag or no snap cap at all or a couple of snap caps mixed with live rounds. </div></div>

Nothing cures a flinch like a little "Ball and Dummy"
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Double up on ear plugs with muffs. Get a brake. Get a decelerator or similar pad. I am sure dryfiring is helpful with trigger control, but I am not certain it will help a flinch, you definately shoot differently if you are flinching in anticipation of the recoil than you do when dryfiring. Same with snap cap, it is usefull in pointing out the flinch without question, but it doesn't provide a means of eliminating it really, just makes you more conscious of it. I think a big element of flinch is muzzle blast, then the actual recoil. If you can reduce the noise (suppressor is best as stated above, or double up ear protection next) it helps. Then reducing felt recoil is next, I put brake before pad up there, but I would reverse this order and try a nice decelerator or limbsaver pad first (Megacab on this site raves about a slip on pad that I have lost the name of, but if you are interested in that, I think he gets it at Cabelas and they are reasonable, and an easy way to try a pad without modifying the gun, shoot him a PM), then move to a brake. Next you can add weight to the gun, all of these combined will reduce noise and felt recoil, and then the only thing left is trigger time. A lower recoil rifle is a great idea as well, but if you have one rifle and that's it, try these things first.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tinman52</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Thanks for all the replies. I wish we could have suppressers in DE. That would be sweet, however it ain't happening. I'm going on a steady diet of dry firing as of this week. So, I'll let you know how it goes.

Mike </div></div>
Dry firing never worked for me.
WhenI start shooting for real ,I start flinching again
smile.gif

I think a 22 rifle likemy rem 597 is incredible practice for this and I have stocked up on 1000's of rounds for this purpose.
For me its as simple as focusing and only firing guns with light recoil,,,That along with hearing protection and shooting glasses.

Nothing beats just relaxing and focusing for me.
The 22LR makes that very easy
smile.gif
.
BTW ,Flinching comes very natural for me and I constantly have to fight the urge from abusing myself for years with way more recoil than I should have.

Most don't even realise there in the same boat,OR won't admit it
smirk.gif


 
Re: need a flinching cure

Dry firing is boring,although you learn to work your trigger well.

The best way to overcome a flinch and improve form is to shoot an air rifle that is not spring based.

Because the velocities in air rifles are slow and the pellet is in the barrel for a long time,relative to a firearm,it takes perfect form and follow through to make a good accurate shot.

Steve
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Shooting a whole lot and getting used to the gun will also help. 30 years break obviously has something to do with it. More experience coupled with dry firing.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Dry firings not gonna help a flench much. Always felt it was mental. Get to the range with a good set of earplugs, tell yourself its not gonna hurt, its not too loud, it'l be fine, just pull the trigger. Lets be honest, no 308 really hurts. I luv recoil, cant shoot .22's because they bore me to tears. Tryin to change though. Some rifles (cartraiges) will make you anticipate but it should take something pretty large to do it. Like boltripper said, get off the bench, shoot different ways and quit thinking about the recoil, learn to like it
wink.gif
.

okie
 
Re: need a flinching cure

couple options. One the cheap side, dry fire quite a bit. I have always had good luck shooting .22's between high powers to get rid of flinch. that's probably the best thing to do.

then when you are shooting full power rifles, wear a past recoil shield, wear gOOD hearing protection, usually plugs AND muffs, and get some weight on the rifle.

on the highest end for money get a suppressor or a muzzle break. my dad used a lead sled to shoot his .416 rigby to get ready for Africa and that worked well. not real precise though.

I'd say good plugs and lots and lots of .22 and you'll get through it
 
Re: need a flinching cure

That's a tough one. Some people very little works. I am that way with large magnum caliber revolvers, I can dry fire one no problems, no flinch no thing because my brain knows there's no recoil/etc. But on the range it shows up after awhile.

The mixed dummy/live ammo can help, but many times that's just to show if you have a flinch. It can help with the flinching by placing a negative outcome with the dummy rounds showing that you are not following through.

I'd say what others have said, get away from the recoil as much as possible. Shoot a heavier gun, use one of those shoulder pads, I would even say get the gun compensated if the range allows them. Shoot prone as well, I think it makes the recoil easier to deal with. Use really good ear protection or double up on the plugs/muffs. Shoot low recoil ammo, shoot a smaller caliber etc.

On the mental side of it, relax, I know a lot of times what gets me is I let my breath out, start running out of air, and rush the shot. It may be against all the "rules" but I've found that if I allow myself to breath and take a long long time to execute the shot I can stay more relaxed and take focus away from the recoil, it may take 30 seconds to squeeze off a round. It's something to try but it usually does not produce the best accuracy.

Also build up to it, if you go from not shooting to the range and fire 100 .308 rounds on your first day that's going to cause a black and blue shoulder and it leaves negative subconscious experiences. Macho guys can say what they want, but a .308 does recoil especially if you are new to shooting. If you shoot 3x a week of course its not the same.

That and once you notice you flinch at the range, stop shooting, all you are doing is reinforcing what is causing the flinch and making it that much harder to overcome.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

I have the same problem sometimes... who doesn't, sometimes?? When I catch myself doing it I remember something from Zen (or some exotic thing like that) archery, concerning followthrough... "You shoot the bow; let the bow shoot the arrow."

So I think the same thing while I'm holding and squeezing - "You shoot the rifle; let the rifle shoot the bullet."

Helps me.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Lots of good answers here but remember the answer to reducing flinching is to reduce felt recoil. Many ways to do this the easiest being.....shoot a lighter caliber (.223 or something similar), use a can/moderator,silencer and finally, stick on a big muzzle brake and let the people shooting next to you develop a flinch.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

I have a thought. I bet you can tell the moment before the trigger releases causing the flinch. Correct me if I am wrong, but if you have a good trigger, isn't it supposed to surprise you (assuming you squeeze) when it goes off? (ie no creep)
 
Re: need a flinching cure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: galveston22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a thought. I bet you can tell the moment before the trigger releases causing the flinch. Correct me if I am wrong, but if you have a good trigger, isn't it supposed to surprise you (assuming you squeeze) when it goes off? (ie no creep) </div></div>

Not if you've shot the gun more that twice.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Snap caps mixed in the mags, and a lot more time on the rifle.

More familiarity with the way the rifle operates the more confident the shooter is in the system and less fear/anticipation of recoil as a result.

After a bit of time with the snap caps and live rounds mixed in the flinch usually sorts itself out. Going back to live fire, if the flinch starts creeping back into your nerves then get back on the snap caps. After about 2-3 range trips with snap caps your groups should shrink considerably.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

My cure was a better trigger. I use to be awful with my Remington but it was more because of the how heavy the trigger pull was that the recoil. My new savage has the accu trigger and with that little safety it has alittle bit of travel and is a light pull. solved all my problems.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Well, hiding snap caps in a mag will definately help pinpoint the problem but dont think it will do much to eliminate it. Reducing felt recoil is rarely an option if you actually use your rifle for something other than punching paper. Cant really trade your '06 for a .223 when your preparing for the elk hunt of a lifetime. Quite a few years back I got to spend a little time behind a light Sako that was chambered in 300 WM, it was brutal and kicked like it didn't like ya very much. Kinda like my ex used to kick me. Anyway, after a few rounds though, I realized it really, I mean REALLY wasn't that much worse than some other rifles I'd shot. After a while I was shooting the rifle well and even though it was still an "eye opener" everytime I pulled the trigger, I didnt fear it. I think its mind over matter more than anything else. Now I'll admit one may never get used to sending one off with a 700 Nitro Express but with some practce and experience with the weapon, you can conquere your fears with more than most but I think it has to be done behind the actual rifle and feeling the recoil. OK, I'm done. Good luck.

okie
 
Re: need a flinching cure

as one of the other guys said....put a good (lighter) triger in it so there is no creep. (or trigger adjustment)
 
Re: need a flinching cure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get a 12 GA & magnum Slug and buck. Shoot a case of each, standing, get use to the recoil ... now go back and shoot the 308. No flinch. </div></div>

wink.gif
There ya go.

okie
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Make it a switch barrel and go to 243 for example, for awhile, or go rimfire. You've developed a fear of the gun for some reason and a cure is not certain to be found but hopefully you got enough wise remedies here to work it out.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

A strap on recoil pad like a PAST magnum and better hearing protection will help
the most. You are flinching because you think it hurts (whether it does or doesn't is irrelevant) and you won't feel it through a shoulder recoil pad. I always wear one
when doing load work or sighting in on a magnum or a big bore so I don't ever blow
a shot due to flinching. It is going to take some work to cure it. If you reload try
some 5744 accurate powder for some reduced loads.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

A lot of good advice here, and a few I don't agree with, such is life.

The flinch issue is usually caused by some level of fear of noise/pain or both. Whether the fear of pain is in the shoulder or getting scope bit due to a shorter eye relief.

Dryfiring won't fix it, nor will a better trigger. A better trigger will only mask the symptoms temporarily and will return because mentally you are anticipating the recoil or muzzle blast.

Here are some options:
- Wear plugs and muffs.
- Past Mag Recoil Shield - No chaffing, bruising
- Start off your session by shooting from a seated, kneeling or offhand positions. (Boltripper's suggestion to get off the bench) This will allow your brain to process the fact that it's not going to hurt you, shoulder or eye. Then transition to prone. It is going to take time for you to "KNOW" that it's no big deal.

If these options don't work or you can't have a muzzle brake, add as much weight to the rifle as you can.

If after these options, or the one's you are willing to pay for/do, you still have a significant flinch your only option is to drop to a smaller, less recoiling caliber.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

"Double up on ear plugs with muffs." Will cut noise but if you have to hear range commands, forget it.

"Find a light recoiler to practice with. I have a recurring flinch. Every year about deer season I end up sighting bunches of deer rifles for friends. Seems like every is a magnum with a short eye relief scope. After a while I have to break out my rimfire and do a bit of shooting before I can break it." Sounds like maybe you should get (or make) a good sissy bag. Or start telling "friends" to sight their rifles in themselves.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chris112</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Double up on ear plugs with muffs." Will cut noise but if you have to hear range commands, forget it.
</div></div>

Electronic muffs turned up all the way over plugs -- best of both worlds.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Most of my suggestions have already been aptly put out there, but my two cents for what it is worth anyway. Put the .308 away for a bit and practice with a .22 LR of similar configuration, dry-fire the .308. Invest in a set of earplugs and earmuffs. If you can do it, find out what your trigger pull is. If it is up there in pounds get a good gunsith to bring it down with no creep to 2-2.5 lbs. or more important, where you are comfortable. A well tuned trigger makes all the difference in the world. Use a PAST recoil shield on your shoulder and perhaps slowly move up to a .22/250 or .243, and practice some more. Finally, shoot with a buddy and have him load your firearm, at times handing you an unloaded weapon, to detect if you are stil flinching. It is easy to overcome, and you will gain the confidence. Also, make sure you have enough eye relief (distance between your eye and the rear of the scope)that way you do not start flinching because you feel as if the scope is going to hit you. I am confident if you do one or more of these things you will improve. I like muzzle brakes, but they tend to be loud. If muzzle blast get's you flinching avoid the brake. Remember too, all of us flinch sometimes.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Come shoot the 50 BMG with me. Everything under a 750gr bullet will feel like a .22lr form then on...
smile.gif
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Practice is always a good way to remedy anything, but going lighter and shooting more is just going to make you think about how much harder your .308 hits than a .22. Get something that will really rock you. Like one of those savage 12GA bolt guns and run rifled lead slugs out of it, or a light 338WM. After getting abused at the bench by one of those for a few rounds you will flinch the first shot back to your .308 but then will see how light the recoil feels in comparison.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

OK, maybee I'm not done. I guess I'm a biginner here so I'm gonna need some teachin. Would someone please explain to me how shooting something with no recoil is gonna help me get used to recoil. There's been a bunch of "bandaid" fixes mentioned here. Ya know, I used to road race cars a little. Driving slow cars never helped me drive a fast one any better. Putting a Corvette into a full four wheel drift through a corner can be a bit ah......scary at times (but always fun
wink.gif
). You have to learn to deal with that fear and stuff it in there anyway.

If you think some of these "permanant" fixes (recoil pads, lighter triggers, adding weight to the stock, muzzle break, slinging up good and tight, a good GAP camo paint job
smile.gif
) will help then by all means do them. They may help break through a mental barrier also. IMO, if its something thats not gonna be there when you KNOW your gonna get thumped, its not gonna help much.

okie
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Okie, Are you flinching from recoil or flinching trying to jerk your x hairs into the center? Big difference. I didnt read the entire post, so im not sure if this was mentioned or not.

1 Have a friend load your rifle for you and have him put a fired case in there every once in a while randomly.
2 (its boring i know) dry fire practice will help more than you think.
3, fire into a large blank target and close your eyes. I know it sounds funny and you need to pay attention, but it will work. Look thru your scope, get comfy, close your eyes and just think SQEEEEEEEZeeee and let the recoil surprise you. Stay ON your stock and keep looking thru your scope in position until you completely recover from recoil. eventually try it with your eyes open. this will also help you spot your shots.
4 practice....all of the above..

Most people don't think about this, but your scope needs to be set to the height you need to be comfortable. If you cant get comfortable behind your rifle you wont be able to shoot it to your full potential.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Here's what has worked for me-

It has almost nothing to do with hardware fixes, training, snap caps, or lower calibers- because none of that addresses the problem directly, in my opinion (and which some on here have echoed). The only piece of kit I'd suggest is indeed plugs with electronic muffs, just to make it more bearable over the course of the day.

So here's the trick- it's all about your mental objective. Most new shooters (or shooters without much training) think the objective of firing a gun is to fire that gun. So everything in your mind is building up to that moment- the break. Your muscle tension, breathing, focus, are all building up to that one explosion- and there's your flinch. In truth, the thought process should go much differently:

That mental objective needs to be "keep the sights on the target". And just coincidentally, just a minor detail, is that you happen to be pulling something called a trigger. In your mind, that trigger pull could go on for 5 miles. You could be pulling that trigger for 10 years- it doesn't matter because it's coincidental to your sight focus. This one change has not only made me a much better shot, it has made new shooters I train hit the black time and again their first time out.

I hope I was clear about it- if you get this line of thinking, it should really eliminate it- because you could care less about something called a gun going off- you're keeping your focus razor sharp on sight alignment, and again, just happen to be exerting pressure with one of your fingers on a piece of metal known as a trigger- in your mind, you should think you could sit there, focusing on that sight and pulling back for 30 minutes. The bang is then a surprise
smile.gif


Using this method, I've seen even when I hit the end of the mag and don't realize it, and dryfire by mistake, that I don't move a mm. And, any rifle anyone gives me, regardless of the caliber, gets fired the exact same way.

Remember: "I'm focusing on this sight. And I just so happen to be exerting pressure down here while I'm doing it, and I can do these two things forever."

Hope it helps,
BB
 
Re: need a flinching cure

I can only speak to my suggestion about why something with less recoil. The original post said he had been away from shooting for some time. As a confidence builder my suggestion was to simply shoot something smaller like a .22 for practice and master some rifle shooting basics again before he went back to the .308. If it was still too much try a different caliber or those other remedies. Everyone has a different recoil threshold as you clearly know. It was not meant to imply less recoil will get you used to more recoil. No teaching here, just a friendly suggestion to help out.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Okiefired,

Other than having cool gap camo to help reduce flich.LOL and using a lighter trigger,muzzle brakes,etc, consider these thoughts.

It's the building of a "form" when shooting any type of gun.You have to train yourself to do the same thing(shooting sequence)every time no matter what gun you are shooting.It's the foundation of your shooting experience.

A good 'for instance',is my wife.She had not shot before I met her.So she had no bad habits.I started her off with a pellet pistol and taught her stance,how to hold the gun,sight alignment,trigger press and follow through.WITH A BIG EMPHASIS ON FOLLOW THROUGH!!!!.She now has a good foundation for shooting any gun,which is a"FORM".Now she is a good shot with her 9mm even just being a beginner.When she misses,I say to her,there's nothing that can be done to avoid recoil or noise so you have to stop anticipating recoil and observe good form,just as if you were shooting your pellet gun right now.

You see,if you are intending to follow through then you are subconsciously disregarding recoil,noise and flinch because you have made up your mind that you are going to stand on your foundation which is exercising good "form".

Steve

 
Re: need a flinching cure

I found that the BEST flinch reduction technique is to set yourself the goal of seeing the bullet hit the target. Don't move whatsoever when the gun goes off and hold your position and eye relief.
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Mr. Seekins, first of all, I dont flinch, your talkig to the OP. I simply cant see where any of your four methods will help with the posible exception of the third. Having a friend surprise you with a "no load" (no 1) will help identify the pro blem but wont solve it. Your right on No. 2, it is boring but I cant see where it will help with anything but fundimantals.

Big brother, sounds like a good method to me. It takes your concentration off the recoil even when you know the recoil IS still gonna happen. Thats a true fix and not a bandaid.


Steve123, Ya, I thought the GAP camo might help as much as much as some things
wink.gif
. I agree, if you have bad form, the teaching of good form can help. If you have good form to start with and only a fear of recoil, it wont. Dont care if you shoot 10K rnds of pellets and 10K of .22's if you have a fear of recoil when you switch to that .300 WM, your still gonna flinch because you KNOW its gonna bust your ass. You have to do something to take you mind or concentration off the recoil and some of these ideas simply wont do it.

okie
 
Re: need a flinching cure

Thanks okie. I gave it some more thought and realized how to clean it up, mantra-wise. What I really teach people and a simpler way to think of it is: "The million mile trigger". You just focus on the sight and pull it as though it's a million mile trigger.

Easier to remember and implement that way
smile.gif
 
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