Need a little advice about caliber

[Johan H]

Hi

I have a rifle that is built on a Win 70 LA (Post 64) action in caliber 308 Win. It has a SS Lothar Walther barrel on it that now has 2014 rounds thru it, still some life left.

Last weeken I participated i my first shooting over 1000 yards (1071 yards exactly) and clearly
my 308 was a little tierd on that range. (I use 155gr Scenar loaded to 2867fps) I tried a Sako TRG 42 in 338 LM which was a blast to shoot at longer ranges. There also was a 6.5x55AI there that seemd to handle the wind good, only saw it be shot at 787 yards.

To the story goes that I have ordered a AI AW in 308 that will arrive in July, so then I will have 2 308´s. Im now thinking of rebarreling my Win M70 action to a more potent long range caliber for the shots at over 1000 yards. The 6.5x55AI has better ballistics then the 308 but since we sometimes uses reactive steel targets im not sure it will get them to fall over at the extreme ranges. It would be the most economic way to go and with a barrel change kit I could still keep my 308 barrel and change if I wanted.

338 Edge is another option, I have no experience of it. As far as I know there are only Remington brass (and the more expensive Nosler) for it, and Remington brass usually are of poor quality compared to Norma or Lapua that im used to shoot with. For a 338 Edge build I will have to open up the bolt face, not sure if there is anything else that needs to be done.

Can you give some advice in another caliber that I should have as an alternative?

I could just keep using y 308 barrel, with 155gr Scenar is shootable but
it´s not among the best choises, and as I said anothe 308 is on it´s way.

 

[Dogtown]

Re: Need a little advice about caliber

If you want to go just beyond 1000 yards, go .300WM - it's very economical and components are widely available. If you want to go to 1600 yards go for .338LM

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: Need a little advice about caliber

It all depends on what you want it to do? Are you punching paper all the time will you be hunting at long distance? If you want to run a single shot any ai round is fine. Alot of ai rounds dont like to feed well from a mag. Depends on what case you looking at using. I prefer the 6.5x284 or the 6.5x47. I just got done building a 6x47 and cant wait to shoot it. I also run just the lapua brass in these cause it works the best and you get the most life out of it.

if you need something with a little more punch the lapua mag is a good way to go but you will find yourself shooting it alot less per cost reasons. I have seen many 338 edges shoot well but need to know what kind of performance you expect out of the rifle you want.

There are many other options like a 375 CheyTac, 338 Cheytac Improved (which i might add is a excellent excellent shooting gun just not much of a barrel life), 416 rigby, 30-338 LM, 30-375 H&H, or even a winmag can be set up right to shoot out to 1800 yards. Beyond that range you will need to look into a CT the other calibers just cant hang....

Hope this helps.

Cheers

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: Need a little advice about caliber

PS. dont take advice from anyone who mounts a SN-9 on the ar....

Just kidding bro!

 

[Johan H]

Re: Need a little advice about caliber



Thanks for the advice. I have had a 300wm just recently
but never got it to shoot as I wanted so I sold it.

I will shoot paper and steel 95% at the time and if I should hunt with it, it would not be at ranges over 400m for sure.

I have tried a 6.5x55AI cartridge in my magazine and it feeds just fine so that part is OK. I dont want a single load rifle, I want to use the internal magazine. I have no bottom metal and I dont want to modify my McM A5 for one. That limits the OAL a bit. I dont know if a 338LM is possible to put in my WinM70 action or to open up the bolt face for one?

I belive the longest distance I will shoot at would be around 1600 yards. Accuracy vise I would like 1 MOA at 1000 yards.

 

[steve123]

Re: Need a little advice about caliber

Consider 284Win set up for 180's with a long throat and use a longer 9 twist barrel.It will only be a hundred fps behind a 7wsm but will give you a little better barrel life and you won't have to open the bolt face.You will have the advantage of using Lapua brass(necked up 6.5-284,drilled flash hole,long lasting)Much less recoil than the 100gr capacity cartridges.Should be sonic to about a mile.

Steve

 

[Johan H]

Re: Need a little advice about caliber

Thanks for all advices. Now I have a little to think about.

 

[acloco]

Re: Need a little advice about caliber

I own a 6.5x55 AI (shot it yesterday at 1K, in the wind - there is ALWAYS wind in Nebraska), 300 win mag (208 amax), & a 338 RUM (with 300 gr SMK's).

The 6.5 does not need any kind of a muzzle brake. The 300 WM should, especially if you are going to shoot more than 100 rounds. The 338 RUM must have a brake...it WILL bruise you otherwise.

Pick a readily available bullet with the highest BC and build or buy your rifle.

You might consider a 7mm Mag. Very high BC bullets in several weights. If I build another long range rig, it will be based on the 7mm Mag.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Need a little advice about caliber

I would like to take this question a bit further.

If you were looking at a "change barrel" what would you recomend? The .338LM "seems" to be the logical larger cal, the question would be the "smaller" cal. Do you go 300WM? What other cal that go 1000+ "easily" and dont eat barrels and dont take a pound of powder to get there. I would love to hear your input.

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: Need a little advice about caliber

A "change barrel" if done in a lapua mag would need to have another bolt made for the action cause there is only two cases that fit that bolt face. a 6br is a awesome caliber that has been burning up the BR world but doesnt have the punch you need to kill a animal. The WM is a good caliber that doesnt burn up barrels along with a 6.5x47. It all depends on what you want it to do and what your are going to do with it.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Need a little advice about caliber

You're experiencing the same situation a lot of 1Kyd .308 shooters face when they try to get more distance out of the cartridge. It can be done, but it comes at the cost of marginally overmax loads, and is not a good thing for bore/throat longevity.

You make no mention of barrel length, but I would suggest that LR shooting with the .308/155 has historically been optimized to use very long barrels (30-32") and slower 1:12-1:14" twists. These configurations don't work well with heavier bullets, which like faster twists, at least 1:12".

The case/bullet combo can be made to work to 1000yd in shorter barrels, but is really forging on in the face of handicap. Trying to go further can get frustrating with such configurations.

Yes, larger chamberings can get you what you want. There are overheads involved, and I prefer not to go there for personal reasons.

Another approach would be to utilize the system and chamber capacity you already have in a more optimal manner. The basic .308 case is mother to many others; .243, .260, 7-08, 338 Fed, .358 Win, to name the more easily recognized.

The .243, .260, and .7-08 tend, to my kind, to use the case capacity more efficiently for long range bullets, and my chosen chambering is the .260. With the 139 Scenar, 140 A-Max, and 142SMK bullets, it can be coaxed, in an appropriately configured barrel, to get out to around 1400yd before it starts giving the kinds of problems you're seeing with the .308.

My rifle wears an L-W SS 28" 1:8" barrel, and has highly adequate performance at 1000yd. Were I to make an effort to reconfigure to a more optimal barrel, I would go to a 1:9" twist, and add as much length as I could, with 32" not being out of the question.

That's not to say that the chambering can't go beyond 1000yd with a shorter barrel. I managed very satisfying performance at 1123yd with 139 Scenars in a 24" 1:8" barrel.

But the loads were also at primer-blowing pressure levels when temps got into the 90's, and I wouldn't do that again. I feel the 139 generates more pressure than the 142SMK for comparable loads, and have chosen to stay with the 142SMK for that reason; although an identical barrel to mine on another rifle also does very well with the 140 A-Max, and seems to like doing it with virtually identical loads, in both cases at or slightly below 44gr of H4350.

Maybe this sort of approach could be more satisfying for your needs. I am totally satisfied with it for my needs.

Greg

 

[our gang]

Re: Need a little advice about caliber

+1 on the 260, better SD than a 308 and cases are available or easily made from 243 or 308. If a bolt or SS, Bergers are hard to beat, if a Black gun, they wont fit but SMKs, Norma and A max all work fine.
Serious DPMS LR 260 with all the goodies. (PG upgraded since pic too)

 

[Johan H]

Re: Need a little advice about caliber

Thanks for all you answers. I stumbled upon a used 29" Shultz & Larsen barrel almost for free, it has 8½ twist and are in caliber 6.5x55 Swede. I will rethread it for my Winchester action, ream it to AI, recrown and thread for my suppressor. First of all the smith will check it with a borescope. Then I hope it shoots

I have tried my action with a dummy 338 LM and I dont think it can be done. It have to wait for another time.

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: Need a little advice about caliber

It will you will just need some stuff for it.