Need help spending money

[krink85]

I have read and re read and read again Docs reloading thread. It honestly would help me better if it were written in Greek. No offence to you Doc but I just am not grasping the concept. I have the cash to purchase a complete reloading set up. Problem is I have ZERO clue where to start. I dont even know which books to buy because I dont know which powder to use. I do know I will be shooting SMKs so getting sierras book probably wouldnt hurt. Other than that I am lost.

I will be reloading for my 308's. That is all I really know. I could lie to you and say yeah I know what press I want or dies but I dont even know what to get.

SO i am asking for someone maybe in my area if possible to take me under their reloading wing and show me the process as well as helping me aquire the proper tools to be able to relaod safely.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Need help spending money

I know this ISN'T the answer you want to hear, everyone wants to know what'S "BEST", right?

Fact is, ESPECIALLY at your present level, get any steel/iron single stage press and conventional dies you wish. ALL of them are actually quite good. Trust me, it will take a LOT of reloading, experimenting and shooting, years, before you can attain the experience/skill to need any of the more expensive, fancy tools. By that time you will have your own opinions and won't need to ask the web what to get.

Keep it simple and basic for now, spend your money on bullets, powder, primers and cases.

I'd strongly suggest the Lee Classic Cast press, it's as good as any in its design class and better than some. Any dies at all, including Lee's "Delux" set which includes a full length resizer AND a neck sizer, PLUS a shell holder. Get a manual powder measure + bench stand and scale; Redding's 3BR measure is great, so is their powder trickler and #2 beam type scale.

You will want a dial or digital 6" caliper to measure stuff; case`length, OAL, etc,. Get one of the inexpensive (Chinese) types from MidwayUSA or Harbor Freight for $12-15 on sale. (Reloaders WON'T find any added benefit from the identical models sold by RCBS at 3-4x the price, or from any expensive "professional" grade calipers/micrometers!)

Forget trying to find a particular manual to match a bullet. That's just not particularly helpful since nothing we can change in any book load has as much effect as the rifle we use. That single fact serves to make all book data generic by bullet weight!

You will want more than one manual and, again, they are all quite helpful but get a Lyman Reloading Manual first. Lyman has the most comprehensive, well illustrated and easy to read beginner/starter info available, and some really good advanced info too. (Take all of anyone's "commercial" photos as generic tho!) Lyman's loading tables are quite extensive, with suggestions on what might shoot best. And they have no need to promote any brand of powder or bullet.

Get a really good reloading bench, two or three times the size you first think if that's possible. And have storage shelves/cabinets, lots of storage for more "stuff" than you might dream of, stuff accumulates and multiplies by itself! And install lots of good lighting over your bench top. I use two quad tube 48" floresecent fixtures over my 22"x 8' bench - that's wide enough, just wish it was longer but that was all of the room I had!

I'd like to be more helpfull but it's a long drive to western NC!

 

[GSPKurt]

Re: Need help spending money

Fuzzball has nailed it <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">perfectly</span></span>, especially the part about presses, lighting and bench size.

Varget, RL-15 and W760 are the most popular around me for powder.

 

[chris112]

Re: Need help spending money

If I were to start over again; first would be manuals, Lee's Modern Reloading, ABC's of reloading being 2. Read the how to sections of both. Then start worrying about equipment.

Is space at a premium? Some reloading benchs are only about 4 feet long, others much longer. They both work as well as they are laid out. As for a set of storage cabinants for small items, yes I swear that stuff breeds. At present I have to use a Lee Handpress and a tv tray, just no room for any thing else. It works very well.

When I started it was with a Lee Loader. I still think it is a perfectly good way to get started BUT if you have a hundred cases to reload it has to be done a certain way or it takes forever. Do first step on all cases, then second step on all cases, etc. etc. Not as fast as a progressive but will get the job done. For a lot of people they are happier with a good press though.

Be sure to lube the cases well. That is probably the single biggest cause of stuck cases. If you are like some people (lucky) you will never have a stuck case. Others get them within the first 100 cases.

Good luck and have fun, reloading is an interesting hobby.

Chris112

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Need help spending money

lyman and rcbs both make good starter kits that are around $300 and they have everything you will need tool wise other than the dies to start reloading. I started with the rcbs rockchucker supreme kit and I think it was money well spent.

just get some basic stuff to start redding 3die set for 308 #3 shellholder, some large rifle primers any brand will do for the 308 it is not picky. Try varget first I have yet to shoot a 308 that didn't like it.

 

[HOGGHEAD]

Re: Need help spending money

Go to some of the reloading company web sites. Contact them and ask for blems or factory refurbs. You can pick up a lot of good equipment for a good price from the factory on the blems and refurbs.

Most equipment out there is pretty good quality. Personally I stay away from Lee products, but that is just my opinion.

It is pretty hard to beat RCBS products. They have good products at a decent price, and their customer servicve is impeccable.

My favorite dies are Forster. I also like the Redding, however I feel the Redding and Forster dies are about the same in quality, but the Forster dies are cheaper.

Spend your money on a good seater die. A good seater die is the solution to most runout problems. And IMO runout problems are the most difficult problems a beginner runs into.

You have the right idea about reading. There are some good books out there. Read as many as possible first. Ask around, some one may let you borrow a good book.

The first and most important thing is a heavy duty bench(as large as possible), in a wel lit area, and in an area of the house where there are no distractions. Reloading is best done by yourself(without distractions). If someone wants to talk then talk, but stop loading while talking.

Below is a picture of my bench(just moved so it is not complete). Good solid bench in the back bedroom. Tom.

 

[One_Man]

Re: Need help spending money

obsessmuch?

 

[krink85]

Re: Need help spending money

Well with my reading and suggestions heres what I have on my list. If I am missing anyhting let me know and if I have anyhting that makes no sence also tell me.

 

[GSPKurt]

Re: Need help spending money

Delete the tumbling media and case polish, and go to Harbor Freight and get a 25# bag of blasting media, fine walnut, for $25. It doesn't get stuck in the flash holes. Then stop at WalMart and get a bottle of Nu-Finish liquid car polish in the automotive dept. Now you're good to go.

 

[GSPKurt]

Re: Need help spending money

No tumbler, case trimmer or deburring tool?

And this...
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=401865

 

[VTi]

Re: Need help spending money

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSPKurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No tumbler, case trimmer or deburring tool?

And this...
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=401865 </div></div>

If your working with a large quantity of cases, I'd recommend a uniformer with a power adapter. Much faster, and more uniform.

Something like this is made for uniforming, but does a great job of just cleaning once the brass pocket is initially cut:

http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/10923/Primer-Pocket-Tools

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Need help spending money

"Spend your money on a good seater die. A good seater die is the solution to most runout problems. And IMO runout problems are the most difficult problems a beginner runs into."

I love my Forster BR seaters but they can't correct bent case necks and that is most commonly caused by conventional sizers and expander balls, of ANY brand. With good necks, any seater is likely to do a very good job.

Dealing with all that piddly fine point stuff at this early stage of Mr. Krinks experience is FAR more detail than he needs to have on his plate. Stuff like BR seaters and primer pocket uniformers for a new guy? Why? How much improvement on a target would those buy him? Probably NONE, not for a long time yet!

I really don't believe we do a starter any service by suggesting he start where we have arrived after a LOT of loading/shooting experience. Common reloading tools are actually quite good and there is NO advantage to have him splitting our choice of nit-picky hairs at this point.

All of our pet esotoric suggetions would only have a real application AFTER he gets his groups down to perhaps a consistant 3/4 MOA or so. IMHO.

 

[HOGGHEAD]

Re: Need help spending money

I have to disagree about not buying a good seater die.

Bad run out can be caused by bent necks, that is true. However for a beginner bad runout is also cause by not seating the bullet straight(to the neck). A good seater die will do that for you. So a beginner can achieve good accuracy from his first reloads with less runout problems. The beginner has to buy a die anyway-so why not spend a little bit more at the start for a vastly superior die?? I am not buying that one.

Consistency is the name of the game for accuracy. So why not consistently buy good dies. I have a bunch of dies that I bought before I knew there was a major difference in dies. I could have save a lot of money by just buying the better dies first. I wish someone would have told me. Tom.

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: Need help spending money

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HOGGHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I stay away from Lee products, but that is just my opinion.

My favorite dies are Forster. I also like the Redding; however I feel the Redding and Forster dies are about the same in quality, but the Forster dies are cheaper.

Spend your money on a good seater die. A good seater die is the solution to most runout problems. And IMO runout problems are the most difficult problems a beginner runs into.</div></div>
+1

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: Need help spending money

The following link is to a forum that may prove helpful:

http://6mmbr.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3636852&trail=8

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Need help spending money

To start with buy a couple reloading books, I started with Lee's Modern Reloading and Lymans. After reading these, or others you will have a good Idea of what you will need. When I started hand-loading nearly 20 years ago I bought a Lyman T-Mag turret press and starter kit. If I were to buy every thing over again this is my list.

#1 A quality press; this could be Lyman, Redding, RCBS or Hornady. I have five different ones for different uses/purposes and include a Lyman T-Mag, Redding big boss II, Dillon 550 progressive, RCBS partner and a Lee cheapo C press.

#2 A powder scale. I have used a balance beam but now use a digital PACT and would advise getting a quality digital scale (there are many but I am happy with the pact)

#3 A deburring tool. I use a VLD style tool for the inside and a lee universal for the out side (helpful hint: if you should ever decide to get a WSM or ultra mag don’t get a Lee, its not big enough to fit over the shoulder and yet reach the outside edge of the neck.

#4 A hand primer and shell holder, lee works well for me but again there or others to choose from.

#5 A shell trimmer, I used a Lyman for years until I got into precision reloading and realized that the Lyman was not trimming things 100% square now I use a Wilson on a Sinclair stand that takes separate shell holders for each caliber but it trims square and well worth it. Plus the Wilson is cheap.

#6 A primer pocket uniformer, this is one of those things that are not necessary but I choose to do. I can’t say it makes a difference but I feel better about the quality of my brass after I do it. I use a Foster that comes on a little stand and works quickly. If you choose to do this don’t get one that you have to hold in your hand… trust me….

#7 Flash hole reamer, again this is one of those things that is not necessary but I choose to do. I can’t say it makes a difference but I feel better about the quality of my brass after I do it. Do both sides, inside the case and outside, I use a Lyman hand tool for this.

#8 A shell holder for your press, some die sets come with these, others don’t.

#9 dies specific to your cartridge caliber. I have used many different brands but my favorite is Redding full length sizing die and Redding competition bullet seating die. If you want to neck size your brass rather than full length size go with Lee’s collet neck sizer die, if you go this route you will need at some point a body sizing die.

#10 A caliper

#11 Over all length gage, and comparator attachments. I use the Hornady (formerly stoney point) this measures the length of the cartridge to the lands in your barrel and is specific to each bullet style and weight you shoot.

#12 A head space gage. I use the Hornady (formerly stoney point) gage that works with the attachment on #11. You can go with a stand alone die but I like the ability to match my chamber.

#13 Imperial sizing wax, some prefer to use spray on lube but I no longer do for any precision hand-loading. I may use spray on if I loading a large supply of brass for plinking/blasting ammo and not as concerned with precision…

#14 Depending on how you decide to measure your powder you may need a powder measure and tickler or Lee dipper cups and a tickler. Because I load such a larger verity of different stuff I have them all.

#15 Brass tumbler and media to clean your brass.

I think that about covers what I would get if starting over. As you progress in your skills you may want to get a concentricity/run-out gage and neck thickness gage as well as a neck turner but in a factory barrel/chamber neck turning is not really needed, unless you are using a Redding bushing sizing die. But I have found that it is a task (neck turning) I would rather not start. Last bit of advice on that… buy the best quality brass (Lapua or Norma) and neck turning will not be much of a issue to begin with… Im not saying Federal Match brass or others are bad, it’s just not as uniform as Lapua and/or Norma tends to be.
A book I'd like to add to anyone wishing to improve their hand-loading skills is Glen Zediker's book "Handloading for Competition". It is not just for competition shooters but anyone wishing to see improvement in their hand-loading skill level.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Need help spending money

"I have to disagree about not buying a good seater die."

I agree but think you missed my point. On average, I find that most seaters are quite good. How well ANY die, seater or sizer, matchs our chamber is a total crap shoot.

Die brand or price is no guarantee of anything. They are ALL made to SAAMI tolerances and that's a range, not a specific point. What we get inside that range is a matter of chance.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

Re: Need help spending money

Some of my favorites:

Forster Co-Ax press
Wilson case trimmer
RCBS Universal Hand Primer
Hornady Cam-Lock bullet puller

With this combination of press and priming tool, you don't need any shell holders.

Andy