Need prs action help

[BANG...ping]

Hi everyone,

So I have done a few tactical matches and have decided to buy a new rig. I am evaluating actions. Why is it that most actions ( Defiance, Surgeon, Bighorn, Etc) have 90 degree throws? Seems like a short throw (60-70 degree) would mean faster follow up shots and bolt / scope clearance but the industry standard appears to be 90 degrees. Can someone enlighten me?

Thanks,
Bang

 

[Onoko]

I wouldn't say it's industry standard but the reason why is a two lug design versus a three lug design. Most of the popular custom actions are similar to a Remington 700 action due to popularity in aftermarket parts. Usually 90 degree bolt throws are a little easier to open than 60 degrees (this isn't always true, that's why I say usually). You will just have to try them out to see what you like.


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[wareagle700]

There's a tradeoff with the shorter bolt throws, they are usually heavier. With enough practice though, neither will hold you back.

 

[Supersubes]

All the makers you mentioned make remington clones. Their footprint fits in the most common stocks and bottom metal. If you get a close look at a GA tempest, you'll see what lengths they went to to accomplish the same thing.

 

[Sheldon N]

I love a fast cycling bolt, but honestly it means nothing in terms of speed of shooting in PRS. The way that you speed up a follow up shot is by reducing the time from AFTER the bolt closes to the point when you are calm, stable, on target and able to smoothly press the trigger. That comes with practice.

If you watch guys who do a fast time on a barricade run like the PRS skills stage, they actually run the bolt at a medium/slow pace. Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast.

 

[littlehendrick]

From being an RO, the speed of bolt throw of 60 vs 90, pales in the the time spent between positions and settling into a stable position. Pick what feels awesome, and what you like the most.

 

[Wyzrd]

As far as actions go, if I was going all in full custom, I'd get a Mausingfield action. If building on a factory action, I'd go with a Tikka action. Just my opinion as I think both are sweet actions!

 

[Gilly]

I've been contemplating this same idea. Weighing out if 60* bolt on a tempest would have speed advantage or would I be better off to go with a bighorn so I can order barrels and not have down time of sending it to a smith to get a new one.

Interesting to hear that 60 isn't much advantage over 90 on bolt but the explanation makes sense, after shooting a couple matches, time spent running bolt is much less than acquiring target. But videos I see of guys running bolt like a machine make you wonder, repetition I guess. Seems like reliability is critical after having feeding problems on a couple stages it's hard to recover and not rush shots after that. Hoping to upgrade from my Remington 700 sometime soon.

 

[Jimmy31593]

There are tons of threads on here discussing different actions. You can spend hours reading about all of your options. Your best bet is to head to a local match and check out what people are using. Most people will let you check out their rig so you can form your own opinions.

 

[BobinNC]

Just to put cap on the conversation, the Tikka T3 sports a 70% bolt lift and it is a 2 lug design. It's also smoother and has an easier bolt lift than any stock Rem 700 out of the box....

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

For me going to a 60deg was decided for the magazines. 60deg is typically set up to run the shorter double stack mags. With my body build I can get very low on most obstacles and the 10rd single stack mags would sometimes force me to position myself higher up than Id have liked.

i know some custom 90deg actions can be had setup for AW mags but the 60s are born for it

 

[jlficken]

There's a tradeoff with the shorter bolt throws, they are usually heavier. With enough practice though, neither will hold you back.

The bolt lift on my AI AT with 600rds thru it is much lighter than that of my Savage 10FP. Actually I don't consider the AI bolt lift heavy at all.

 

[Barney88PDC]

Very good advice throughout this thread. In theory it's faster, in reality it's a mute point. I run a 90 degree and I can out run the vast majority of people on timed stages. If you decide to go with a Surgeon I can help answer any questions you may have and get you a discount.

 

[CShooter92]

Personally I think you are faster with an action you are used to. I've run Remington's my whole life and using a 60* action for me is awkward and slow. I could get used to it, just don't want to haha. Hence the reason I went with a Surgeon for my build.

 

[steve123]

Personally I think you are faster with an action you are used to. I've run Remington's my whole life and using a 60* action for me is awkward and slow. I could get used to it, just don't want to haha. Hence the reason I went with a Surgeon for my build.

Yeah, same here!

I had the bolt handle angled back on my 700 which made it even faster. Once a RO told me I was the fastest he'd seen a bolt run. Kinda surprised me he said that, lol.

Something about Surgeon too, they're just fast.

 

[BANG...ping]

Thanks everyone for the great input. I really do appreciate it. Special thanks to Sheldon and littlehendrick. You both make a great points.

Bang

 

[5RWill]

As many have noted you need to get behind one or the other and cycle them see what you think. I'll never likely stray from my tempest for a comp gun, less there comes a V2 with a floating bolt head. I'm too used to it and much prefer the starting position of a swept 60 degree bolt handle to that of a straight 90. They are in most cases a little stiffer to run than a 90 degree 2-lug. That said my Tempest doesn't feel any different than my 700 or Dad's SR3, to me.

As Sheldon also eluded to, there more important factors than bolt speed involved in making hits quickly and efficiently. Most of the top shooters don't usually run the bolt that fast. Also in PRS it just isn't scored like USPSA, hits are infinitely more valuable than time allotted to make said hits. Truthfully the time constraint is there only to put stress on the shooter. Cleaning a stage in 60 seconds vs 90 seconds has no bearing on you're score. 10 is a 10.

Now having said all that i still enjoy the quickness of the tempest. Speed shoots, movers, or scenarios where i feel pressed for time and need to be shooting quickly once stable. I have the option to do so, and can flat out shoot faster than i ever could with a 700. There are people with 90 degree 2-lugs that are faster than i can be with my 60 degree 3-lug, i just prefer the latter through and through.