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Neighbor's horses in my property problem (texas)

stello1001

stello1001

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    • Feb 20, 2017
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    Corpus Christi TX
    #1
    Hey all,

    I wanted to see if I can pick the hide's brain a bit. I found a great stretch of property that extends 1km long in a straight line. I am in the process of buying it so I can do some of my shooting there. There is no fence on the property but it is still a good deal.

    One neighbor has about a dozen horses and he as well has no fencing anywhere. Essentially, those horses are roaming free anywhere and everywhere. The other neighbors seem to not care about it.

    I will eventually put a fence up, but that's down the road as I start accumulating more funds. Who's obligation would it be to put a fence at this point?

    What if I'm in the middle of shooting and a horse gets between the target and I? What if I try to run it off my property and for whatever reason something happens to the horse, maybe a rattlesnake bite or some injury. What if I'm shooting and a horse gets in the way as the trigger broke?
    Or...
    What if I end up fencing, and the horses destroy or damage the fence over time?

    Has anyone been in a similar situation? Once the purchase happens and I'm more in it than I am now, I will talk to the local sheriff's department. They are good people. I will also seek legal advice from the right sources, etc.

    In the meantime, I thought I'd ask the hide and see what they have to haha.
     
    #4
    918v's one liner pretty much sums up how things work. Get to know your neighbors like they're family.

    Opinions follow quotes followed by legalese links.

    stello1001 said:
    Who's obligation would it be to put a fence
    Click to expand...

    Usually it depends on who wants the fence. Even in HOA controlled subs if you want to replace a fence that sits on the property line between you and a neighbor you can ask the neighbor if he wants to foot half the cost and if he says no it's all on you.

    If you actually get to the point where you are about to go forward with buying the property I suggest you go introduce yourself to your potential neighbors and ask them if they are dickheads. Not as a direct question of course but a conversation. Let them know you plan on shooting, they'll have questions, you'll talk it out and find out if it's a good idea or not. Caveat: During the course of this conversation they will also be learning whether or not you are a dickhead. ;)

    stello1001 said:
    What if I shoot a horse
    Click to expand...

    Don't.

    What if you're out shooting on your land and somebody happens to wander into the line of fire and takes a bullet? Horses aren't that hard to see or keep track of. If you shoot one, no matter where it is, I suspect there will be issues.

    stello1001 said:
    What if my neighbor's animals destroy or damage the fence
    Click to expand...

    Then your neighbor should pay to repair it but how easy that goes will depend on if he's a dickhead and how well you get along. See conversation above. It may also depend on if he has $$. A lot of people living on acreage in the county don't have any spare dimes.




    Legal reading on the topic


    Neighbor Law​

    Information about Texas law on issues between neighbors like fencing, trees, and noise.

    Guides: Neighbor Law: Fences & Boundaries

    Information about Texas law on issues between neighbors like fencing, trees, and noise.
    guides.sll.texas.gov guides.sll.texas.gov


    FENCE LAWS IN AN OPEN RANGE STATE​

    When it comes to fence laws, Texas is largely an “open range” state

     
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    #6
    As a dude who owns cattle in the state to your north, I'll say that several points above are spot on. Stretching a strand or two of braided hot wire isn't going to run you more than $500.

    As the owner of animals, it is your responsibility to keep them on your land. Now that we know that they don't care, I'll further that you as the neighbor are going to be responsible for killing their livestock if you 'accidentally' shoot one. All bad... don't risk it.

    If the horses damage anything of yours - their responsibility (if you can prove it). That goes for the fencing too.

    Good neighbors are a treasure. All hope might not be lost in establishing a friendship still, and that's what I'd still try for. You can explain your shooting range intentions, and even invite them for some fun... Unless they're the most dense people in the world, they'll figure out that their horses are going to be in harm's way if they don't keep them on their property.

    We've even gone halves on fencing with a couple of neighbors when we both have interests.
     
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    #8
    Sorry to be the cynic, and it “feels” like a legit post/user, but who in Texas uses kilometer vs yards or miles as a measure of distance, and says barrister instead of lawyer when speaking of someone who provides legal advice?

    Just curious.

    Recent transplant from overseas? If you’re one of those recent arrivals from Zud Afrika, then you are most welcome… and happy to have ya here.
     
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    #10
    91Eunozs said:
    Sorry to be the cynic, and it “feels” like a legit post/user, but who in Texas uses kilometer vs yards or miles as a measure of distance, and says barrister instead of lawyer when speaking of someone who provides legal advice?

    Just curious.

    Recent transplant from overseas? If you’re one of those recent arrivals from Zud Afrika, then you are most welcome… and happy to have ya here.
    Click to expand...
    He could be gay. The Gays use the Metric System… and MILs… and prolly don’t put beans in their “Chili.”

    Ask Westboro Baptist what happens to MIL shooters.
     
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    #15
    Yeah, I have someone else's horses on my property pretty frequently... and I don't consider myself blessed. Fortunately it is easy to run them back up to my neighbor and close his gate. They get into shit they're not supposed to.

    Don't be a fag and take care of your own animals. Took a dog collar back to him last year, but we were both pretty clear about what was going to happen if his dogs were chasing my cows for fun (again) too.
     
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    #18
    diggler1833 said:
    Yeah, I have someone else's horses on my property pretty frequently... and I don't consider myself blessed. Fortunately it is easy to run them back up to my neighbor and close his gate. They get into shit they're not supposed to.

    Don't be a fag and take care of your own animals. Took a dog collar back to him last year, but we were both pretty clear about what was going to happen if his dogs were chasing my cows for fun (again) too.
    Click to expand...
    1748120381816.png
     
    #19
    Well, based on bullet time of flight and the speed at which horses graze, I would guess you won’t likely hit one. Unless they happened to be behind your backstop and you overshoot. Have them hear your shooting a few times, and they will tend to stay away from that area. Electric fence and a solar fence charger are pretty affordable and you would be in better shape. If you want a good story about spotlighting “raccoons” that had very wide set eyes, you can ask @Makinchips208.
     
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    #21
    stello1001 said:
    Hey all,

    I wanted to see if I can pick the hide's brain a bit. I found a great stretch of property that extends 1km long in a straight line. I am in the process of buying it so I can do some of my shooting there. There is no fence on the property but it is still a good deal.

    One neighbor has about a dozen horses and he as well has no fencing anywhere. Essentially, those horses are roaming free anywhere and everywhere. The other neighbors seem to not care about it.

    I will eventually put a fence up, but that's down the road as I start accumulating more funds. Who's obligation would it be to put a fence at this point?

    What if I'm in the middle of shooting and a horse gets between the target and I? What if I try to run it off my property and for whatever reason something happens to the horse, maybe a rattlesnake bite or some injury. What if I'm shooting and a horse gets in the way as the trigger broke?
    Or...
    What if I end up fencing, and the horses destroy or damage the fence over time?

    Has anyone been in a similar situation? Once the purchase happens and I'm more in it than I am now, I will talk to the local sheriff's department. They are good people. I will also seek legal advice from the right sources, etc.

    In the meantime, I thought I'd ask the hide and see what they have to haha.
    Click to expand...
    Depends on your county but most counties in Texas are open range- meaning you have to fence your neighbor out.

    Keep friendly with the neighbors and you might be able to get the bit split the costs by putting the codes that it increases property values.
     
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    #22
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    #23
    Maggot said:
    Probably dont want to shoot his critters. This is in Florida but likely applies most places.

    Florida man shoots neighbor's cow after it came onto his ...​

    View attachment 8693871
    Boston 25 News
    https://www.boston25news.com › news › trending › flori...




    3 days ago — A Florida man is accused of shooting his neighbor's cow several times after the animal came onto his property, law enforcement officials said.
    Click to expand...

    Why advertise… just “disappear” it?

    I get hundreds of pounds of free Jerky show up at the Schloss under its own power and no one is going to going to see or hear a thing.

    The cow psychic can suck it, too! I know nothing… nothing!!!!

    Sirhr
     
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    #26
    Introduce yourself and be a good neighbor. Eventually, give them your cell #. Tell them to call you if anything should be of a concern - squatters, illegal hunting (poaching) , etc. Nice to have someone look over your place. Everybody on this site claims they can "hollow out a dime, so missing a horse shouldn't be that hard.
     
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    #28
    The country is also home of the 'turnabout is fair play'. So before one goes around threatening, shooting, or being a general asshole... might want to consider what is at stake. Would be a real shame if your stuff got vandalized, stolen, or burned to the ground. That isn't some threat that I'm making now... It is exactly how a lot of the locals look at settling disputes. You don't know their character.

    Add in the fact that as the dude moving into an area - you are the outsider. Show your ass to one well-established family, and you are pretty much screwed with all of the others in the area.

    *****

    I've seen/done/heard of a lot of different ways to handle stuff. There is going to be more than one way to do it right... but there are also a lot of ways to do it wrong. Don't do anything that would piss you off if you were to put yourself into their shoes.

    Last year I had a neighbor who has shitty bulls that kept breaking the fence and coming over to my cows before I had put my bulls out (we have a breeding season). I called and was polite twice. The third time, I dry-lotted the bull for 11 days before he finally came over and asked if I had seen it. Now I did give it some feed and water to keep it alive (that is important), but it might have lost about 50 pounds or so in the process. Within two days his bull was over again, and we repeated the process, but at least the neighbor came over after 4 days. We still get along... but I'm still pissed about having 4 calves that were born about a month early and are going to go to market 150 pounds lighter than the ones my bulls produce.
     
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    #30
    DeathBeforeDismount said:
    You mean there are zebras on the property. Non game animals are free to shoot whenever in Texas. Just spray paint on and go murder them all.

    For real though, what kind of asshole has livestock and no fencing. An idiot like that deserves whatever happens to them.
    Click to expand...
    Obviously these situations are all hypothetical. Yes, I plan to introduce myself and even invite the neighbors to shoot on the land as well. The neighbor south is really good people and probably the type of people you want as neighbor. The one north is the one with the horses. I've heard he's good people too but just doesn't care about fencing up when he's been confronted about it before.

    Everything I've read about Texas being open range is in regards to not having to fence up towards the street, highway, county road, etc. Meaning it's okay for the animals to go into the road. If traffic runs over it, the driver is responsible. I haven't seen much about open range in regards to neighbors. I have to keep digging some more.

    No, I will not shoot the horses lol. Yes if I'm ever shooting, I will be situationally aware. I know I am responsible for every single one of my bullets that leaves my muzzle.

    By the way, anybody know where they have T-posts and barbed wire rolls for cheap lol.

    Keep the advice coming.
     
    #35
    stello1001 said:
    open range ... animals to go into the road. If traffic runs over it, the driver is responsible
    Click to expand...

    As was mentioned before this may vary by county. Share the county in question if you want help figuring this out here. You mentioned talking to the sheriff so you can ask him/her/it.

    Regardless of who is responsible in an auto accident with livestock there is very little question anywhere who is responsible for ventilation from cordless hole punchers.

    Personally I believe it's a good idea to meet the sheriff share your shooting plans so they have a heads up on any calls they may get. Many moons ago we shot some tannerite on 150 acres belonging to a friend. A 1 gallon plastic jar of tannerite will make a respectable boom. The popo was called and investigated. Nothing happened but shooting was unnecessarily interrupted. With the wrong neighbor it could be that way every time.
     
    #36

    Polpette di Cavallo with Salmoriglio (Sicilian Style Horse Meatballs with Lemon Sauce)​

    For the meatballs
    • 1lb (454g) ground horse meat, lean beef, or wild game
    • 3 garlic cloves, minced
    • 1 pinch chili flakes
    • 1 pinch kosher salt
    • 1 pinch black pepper
    • 2 tablespoons (8g) fresh parsley, minced
    • 2 tablespoons (30g) breadcrumbs
    • 1/3 cup (90g) Parmesan cheese, grated
    • 1 tablespoon (15ml) + 2 tablespoons (30ml) extra virgin olive oil
    For the Salmoriglio Lemon Sauce
    • 1 clove garlic
    • 1 pinch kosher salt
    • 1 teaspoon (2g) dried oregano
    • 1/2 cup (125ml) extra virgin olive oil
    • 1/4 cup (60ml) freshly squeezed lemon juice
    1. Mix all of the meatball ingredients together except for the 2 tablespoons of olive oil in a large bowl.
    Try not to over mix.
    2. Wet your hands and form 12 meatballs, about the size of golf balls.
    Heat up the 2 tablespoons (30ml) of olive oil in a skillet over medium high heat and fry the meatballs until well-browned and at least 160°F (71°C) in the middle. This should take approximately 15 minutes.
    3. Meanwhile, bash the garlic clove with a pinch of salt and the oregano in a mortar and pestle or food processor until it becomes a fine paste.
    Add the olive oil and lemon juice and mix well. Taste. Add some water if you find it’s too strong.
    4. Once the meatballs are done, put them into a bowl and pour the sauce over them, so it settles into a pool on the bottom. Sprinkle over some chopped parsley and serve immediately.

    Enjoy!
     
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    #37
    Herb Stoner said:

    Polpette di Cavallo with Salmoriglio (Sicilian Style Horse Meatballs with Lemon Sauce)​

    For the meatballs
    • 1lb (454g) ground horse meat, lean beef, or wild game
    • 3 garlic cloves, minced
    • 1 pinch chili flakes
    • 1 pinch kosher salt
    • 1 pinch black pepper
    • 2 tablespoons (8g) fresh parsley, minced
    • 2 tablespoons (30g) breadcrumbs
    • 1/3 cup (90g) Parmesan cheese, grated
    • 1 tablespoon (15ml) + 2 tablespoons (30ml) extra virgin olive oil
    For the Salmoriglio Lemon Sauce
    • 1 clove garlic
    • 1 pinch kosher salt
    • 1 teaspoon (2g) dried oregano
    • 1/2 cup (125ml) extra virgin olive oil
    • 1/4 cup (60ml) freshly squeezed lemon juice
    1. Mix all of the meatball ingredients together except for the 2 tablespoons of olive oil in a large bowl.
    Try not to over mix.
    2. Wet your hands and form 12 meatballs, about the size of golf balls.
    Heat up the 2 tablespoons (30ml) of olive oil in a skillet over medium high heat and fry the meatballs until well-browned and at least 160°F (71°C) in the middle. This should take approximately 15 minutes.
    3. Meanwhile, bash the garlic clove with a pinch of salt and the oregano in a mortar and pestle or food processor until it becomes a fine paste.
    Add the olive oil and lemon juice and mix well. Taste. Add some water if you find it’s too strong.
    4. Once the meatballs are done, put them into a bowl and pour the sauce over them, so it settles into a pool on the bottom. Sprinkle over some chopped parsley and serve immediately.

    Enjoy!
    Click to expand...

    Sicilian, you say?



    You guys are making this too easy…

    Sirhr
     
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    #41
    I have not read any other comments but just from straight up common sense, I would go knock on the door and introduce yourself.

    You have plenty of reason to be a nice neighbor. Just go talk to them and say hello. Let them know you are interested in the property next door etc.

    You can easily ask about the horses in a non asshole way.

    After you talk to them about 90% of your questions will be answered. At very least you started on the right foot.
     
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    #42
    Might wanna mention your shooting plans.

    My avatar is literally a characture of an old man that owned the property next to the range (Element)I used to frequent. More than once people came out yelling about the noise. Employees made that sticker as a joke and gave me one.

    It ended up in litigation and lots of $$ in lawyers fees.

    Definitely be cool, not a fag.
     
    #44
    GreenGO Juan said:
    Have you considered just being friends with the horses. A lot of people pay a a lot of money to have horses. You now have basically free horses, so take advantage of that.

    IE, don't be a fag.
    Click to expand...
    I agree with this. Horses are just big dogs they love attention and treats , get some alfalfa cubes and you'll have horse buddies for ever , of course like all aminals there are assholes and mean as shit horses out there so be careful.
     
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    #45
    Feed the horses and they’ll come running every time you drive up and forever be in the way. We got plenty of livestock & horses and nothing more defeating than getting a range set up and animals mosey over. It was best said earlier, good fences makes good neighbors.
     
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    #46
    I know it's getting ahead of the game, but hear me out.

    I live in the country and I have some neighbors. I shoot at home fairly frequently.

    Just to NOT be an asshole I do everything I can to be respectful to the neighbors.

    For one I now have a collection of suppressors, at least initially so I would be more respectful to everyone else.

    I also try to choose when I shoot (and what). If they are having a cookout I will probably hold off. I don't go out early or late unless it's something like a suppressed 22 or 300blk.

    I also try to keep my sessions short and to the point. There is no 8 hours of non stop blasting. I might shoot 3 or 4 mags if it's something loud. To me that's not a downside because in general I need to know what I am doing before I start. I tend to focus on the skills involved not just blasting a case of ammo.

    I say all of this to say that even if you can shoot there it's probably a good idea to be respectful to everyone else regardless of anything else.
     
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    #47
    ironman56 said:
    I agree with this. Horses are just big dogs they love attention and treats , get some alfalfa cubes and you'll have horse buddies for ever , of course like all aminals there are assholes and mean as shit horses out there so be careful.
    Click to expand...

    Having lived with horses they'll be in the way if you do that, also they destroy fences/trees/are just a pain in the ass

    I wouldn't take them for granted either they can kick your head off
     
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    #48
    I live on and manage a 4th gen cattle ranch in Tx. We also have a long distance rifle range near the West edge. It was built in compliance with County rules when it came to the "buffer zone", where rounds/effects of rounds are not supposed to cross. I want to say its 300ft. The next ranch over had some lease hunters that complained about the noise to the SO once...who told me...who told the property owner...who kicked them out that same week and had new hunters by the next weekend. There's also an oil lease in that pasture. If the pumper shows up while we're shooting, he just continues his rounds and comes back later. We stay friendly with him, but he knows the real easement road he's supposed to be on is a mile away and shitty.

    Now livestock getting out is a different story. We consider it our responsibility to keep other people's animals fenced out, more than ours fenced in. This is more for bio safety and herd quality reasons than liability. However, if your animals get out on a public road, you 100% do take on some liability. If somebody plows into a black Angus bull on a county road curve at night, expect a lawsuit. And the Ag margins are too tight, even if you win, to stay open to that.

    In your case, I'd run hotwire, check the County laws, and consider an insurance policy (we carry herd, crop, agritourism and bigass umbrella). Oh and do befriend the neighbors. I just drop some cubes off-range anytime we're shooting and the cattle hustle off.

    My 2 cents.
     
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    #50
    dirtybores said:
    I live on and manage a 4th gen cattle ranch in Tx. We also have a long distance rifle range near the West edge. It was built in compliance with County rules when it came to the "buffer zone", where rounds/effects of rounds are not supposed to cross. I want to say its 300ft. The next ranch over had some lease hunters that complained about the noise to the SO once...who told me...who told the property owner...who kicked them out that same week and had new hunters by the next weekend. There's also an oil lease in that pasture. If the pumper shows up while we're shooting, he just continues his rounds and comes back later. We stay friendly with him, but he knows the real easement road he's supposed to be on is a mile away and shitty.

    Now livestock getting out is a different story. We consider it our responsibility to keep other people's animals fenced out, more than ours fenced in. This is more for bio safety and herd quality reasons than liability. However, if your animals get out on a public road, you 100% do take on some liability. If somebody plows into a black Angus bull on a county road curve at night, expect a lawsuit. And the Ag margins are too tight, even if you win, to stay open to that.

    In your case, I'd run hotwire, check the County laws, and consider an insurance policy (we carry herd, crop, agritourism and bigass umbrella). Oh and do befriend the neighbors. I just drop some cubes off-range anytime we're shooting and the cattle hustle off.

    My 2 cents.
    Click to expand...
    Ah yes the pumper…. He hauls ass through there! Need to come see ya and shoot and kill some beers.

    You should listen to this guy, he knows his shit, serious cattle operation
     
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