New 7saum build. Need some experienced advice

[Rangermi]

My new 7saum is about complete and now building a load for hunting deer and elk. I am not new to reloading, hunting, or long range shooting however this is a new cartridge for me and I am planning to take this rifle Elk and Mule deer hunting in October. I built the rifle with the Berger 175s in mind, I have 180 ELD-m as well and open to going the 166 A-tip or ELD-x route as well.

I would really appreciate some expert advice on building a load and the bullet of choice for my application. My build and available reloading components are listed below.

Gunwerks ClymR stock with Gunwerks Tactical AICS bottom metal with 2.980" OAL Accurate Mag 3 rounders
Mack Brothers Action
22" Bartlein 5r 1:8 twist cut to SAMMI spec reamer
Timney HIT trigger set at 1#
20MOA rail topped with either a NIghtforce NX8 4-32 or Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25
Silncerco Hybrid

I have the following powder on hand: H1000, H4350, VV N165, VV N570, IMR 7828ssc, Superformance, RL25

Primers I have are Fed Match 210s and 215s and CCI 250s

200 pieces of Norma brass

 

[Sniperwannabee]

@Steel head

 

[Steel head]

N165 or N570 would be my first pics.
N165 isn’t a speed demon but gives results like H4831(awesomeness)but a bit slower burn.
N570 is like slower R26 and should be excellent as well as R26 is phenomenal in 7 saum.

H1000 is a bit bulky for 180’s at mag length but should Work with the 166 and 175.
I wouldn’t bother with mag primers.
210M and cci #200’s have been excellent even at below zero temps and mag primer just hurt the ES.

 

[Rangermi]

N165 or N570 would be my first pics.
N165 isn’t a speed demon but gives results like H4831(awesomeness)but a bit slower burn.
N570 is like slower R26 and should be excellent as well as R26 is phenomenal in 7 saum.

H1000 is a bit bulky for 180’s at mag length but should Work with the 166 and 175.
I wouldn’t bother with mag primers.
210M and cci #200’s have been excellent even at below zero temps and mag primer just hurt the ES.

Thank you for the tips. I'm hoping to have this rifle be my go to for all my backpack hunts. I'va heard the 210's with H4350 is a good combo but the H1000 will do better with 215s. Any experience with that?

I had Blue Mountain build me a 28 with a 26" PROOF on a Fusion Ti topped with a 7-35 ATACR chambered for the 195s but it's a little longer than I'd like for a backpack.

 

[Steel head]

I ran H1000 with both, ES was noticeably better with the reg rifle primers.
For a hunting rifle just run whatever floats your boat.
If it’s gonna see serious cold mag primers won’t hurt.

 

[Rangermi]

I ran H1000 with both, ES was noticeably better with the reg rifle primers.
For a hunting rifle just run whatever floats your boat.
If it’s gonna see serious cold mag primers won’t hurt.

Thank you much. Consistency is my quest. I have no problem standing on brass to squeeze out a little more velocity if need be.

 

[hereinaz]

I love my 180 vld out my my 7 SS. I would run that before the Hornady.

 

[Steel head]

I love my 180 vld out my my 7 SS. I would run that before the Hornady.

I would agree
I wouldn’t trust an important shot to the 180eldm

 

[labman]

24" Proof barrel, Defiance Action
Norma brass
BR-2 primer
63 gr of H1000,
Berger 180 VLD Hunting
2895 fps
OAL 2.968
CBTO 2.255

 

[jbailey]

I'm sorry, I'm not a Hornady bullet expert, but isn't the 180gr ELD-m classified as a "match" bullet and the ELD-x 's are the "hunting" line? Not saying that a match bullet couldn't be used but why not just stick with your original plan and use the 175gr Berger Elite Hunter? That is an excellent bullet with a history of outstanding hunting results.

Everything else on your build sounds good, although I think the Nosler brass is a tad better than the Norma (as I understanded its Norma brass that has been sorted and the outliners kicked out; maybe its not worth the price premium but Nosler always shot great in my 7SAUM).

 

[r.ellison2010]

My new 7saum is about complete and now building a load for hunting deer and elk. I am not new to reloading, hunting, or long range shooting however this is a new cartridge for me and I am planning to take this rifle Elk and Mule deer hunting in October. I built the rifle with the Berger 175s in mind, I have 180 ELD-m as well and open to going the 166 A-tip or ELD-x route as well.

I would really appreciate some expert advice on building a load and the bullet of choice for my application. My build and available reloading components are listed below.

Gunwerks ClymR stock with Gunwerks Tactical AICS bottom metal with 2.980" OAL Accurate Mag 3 rounders
Mack Brothers Action
22" Bartlein 5r 1:8 twist cut to SAMMI spec reamer
Timney HIT trigger set at 1#
20MOA rail topped with either a NIghtforce NX8 4-32 or Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25
Silncerco Hybrid

I have the following powder on hand: H1000, H4350, VV N165, VV N570, IMR 7828ssc, Superformance, RL25

Primers I have are Fed Match 210s and 215s and CCI 250s

200 pieces of Norma brass

Not sure I have much technical data to provide, but I've been using 180 Berger HYB that I bought from Gunwerks. I'm getting 2,700 fps out of a 20' proof barrel. Very accurate. Took down two heavy 4X4 mule dear last year at 300 & 425 yards. Proved to be effective.

 

[Rangermi]

Thanks

I'm sorry, I'm not a Hornady bullet expert, but isn't the 180gr ELD-m classified as a "match" bullet and the ELD-x 's are the "hunting" line? Not saying that a match bullet couldn't be used but why not just stick with your original plan and use the 175gr Berger Elite Hunter? That is an excellent bullet with a history of outstanding hunting results.

Everything else on your build sounds good, although I think the Nosler brass is a tad better than the Norma (as I understanded its Norma brass that has been sorted and the outliners kicked out; maybe its not worth the price premium but Nosler always shot great in my 7SAUM).

Thanks for the input. I've had great results with eldx as well. I believe in building rifles around a purpose then a bullet and cartridge to launch it and this rifle was built around the 175, but wanted more experienced input as well.

 

[Rangermi]

24" Proof barrel, Defiance Action
Norma brass
BR-2 primer
63 gr of H1000,
Berger 180 VLD Hunting
2895 fps
OAL 2.968
CBTO 2.255

Thank you!

 

[Rangermi]

I'm sorry, I'm not a Hornady bullet expert, but isn't the 180gr ELD-m classified as a "match" bullet and the ELD-x 's are the "hunting" line? Not saying that a match bullet couldn't be used but why not just stick with your original plan and use the 175gr Berger Elite Hunter? That is an excellent bullet with a history of outstanding hunting results.

Everything else on your build sounds good, although I think the Nosler brass is a tad better than the Norma (as I understanded its Norma brass that has been sorted and the outliners kicked out; maybe its not worth the price premium but Nosler always shot great in my 7SAUM).

I tell ya, I weighted many of the pieces and compared the the Lapua brass I have for other cartridges I was disappointed with the variation on Norma brass.

 

[Steel head]

I tell ya, I weighted many of the pieces and compared the the Lapua brass I have for other cartridges I was disappointed with the variation on Norma brass.

Two things.
It’s been said a lot of weight variations are from differences in the rim cut.
Also does it really matter for a hunting rifle?

 

[Rangermi]

Two things.
It’s been said a lot of weight variations are from differences in the rim cut.
Also does it really matter for a hunting rifle?

It matters to me. Put an elk down at 1,335 yards with 1 shot. If my rifles don't shoot 1/4 minute groups I tend not to keep them around if I can't get there.

 

[Steel head]

It matters to me. Put an elk down at 1,335 yards with 1 shot. If my rifles don't shoot 1/4 minute groups I tend not to keep them around if I can't get there.

Then you might want to consider ADG brass if the Norma doesn’t pan out.

 

[Rangermi]

Then you might want to consider ADG brass if the Norma doesn’t pan out.

Have you seen accuracy improve with ADG in the SAUM? I use it for my 28 Noslers and 300PRC.

 

[Steel head]

I’ve only used ADG brass in my 7 saum.
Accuracy and ES have been excellent.
The Norma brass I tried in my 260 sucked.

 

[jbailey]

It matters to me. Put an elk down at 1,335 yards with 1 shot. If my rifles don't shoot 1/4 minute groups I tend not to keep them around if I can't get there.

Oh, if you are looking to go that far out, I wonder if you have enough barrel at 22", especially if this is a short action. IF you are really stepping on the pressure, maybe 2900fps at the muzzle, which becomes 1500fps at 1300 and 900 ft-lbs (assuming 4000' D.A.) - and a more realistic 2800 is closer to 800 ft-lbs. I don't know if I would be taking lots of pokes that far out unless everything was perfect and you have really good read on wind. Elk are tough animals. Sounds like you want to keep the weight down, but another 4" of barrel is another 50-100fps without hardly any more weight. In the alternative, a long action could grab another bit more MV too w/o a lot of weight.

 

[Rangermi]

Oh, if you are looking to go that far out, I wonder if you have enough barrel at 22", especially if this is a short action. IF you are really stepping on the pressure, maybe 2900fps at the muzzle, which becomes 1500fps at 1300 and 900 ft-lbs (assuming 4000' D.A.) - and a more realistic 2800 is closer to 800 ft-lbs. I don't know if I would be taking lots of pokes that far out unless everything was perfect and you have really good read on wind. Elk are tough animals. Sounds like you want to keep the weight down, but another 4" of barrel is another 50-100fps without hardly any more weight. In the alternative, a long action could grab another bit more MV too w/o a lot of weight.

I'm sure hoping to get to 2,900. I built it short for a backpack and suppressor.

 

[hereinaz]

I'm sure hoping to get to 2,900. I built it short for a backpack and suppressor.

I love the idea of a backpacking gun. My 26" is long. I will go 24" on my next 7ss to keep velocity.

I think you'll be lucky to get 2900, and only if you step on the gas really hard. Maybe the 175 get you a little more velocity. Hopefully you get a fast barrel.

I couldn't get over 2970 in my 7ss with H1000 and 180 in my 7 ss in a 26" barrel. I can get 3020 with RL 26. Maybe the VV powders can do it for you.

4" shorter and the SAUM cartridge is gonna likely lose more than 100 fps from the 7ss which has more powder capacity.

 

[Rangermi]

I love the idea of a backpacking gun. My 26" is long. I will go 24" on my next 7ss to keep velocity.

I think you'll be lucky to get 2900, and only if you step on the gas really hard. Maybe the 175 get you a little more velocity. Hopefully you get a fast barrel.

I couldn't get over 2970 in my 7ss with H1000 and 180 in my 7 ss in a 26" barrel. I can get 3020 with RL 26. Maybe the VV powders can do it for you.

4" shorter and the SAUM cartridge is gonna likely lose more than 100 fps from the 7ss which has more powder capacity.

Thanks for the info. I spoke with Rich a couple times before selecting the saum based on a couple well known gunsmiths. Maybe reconsider my decision after I find the bughole producing load.

 

[jbailey]

Thanks for the info. I spoke with Rich a couple times before selecting the saum based on a couple well known gunsmiths. Maybe reconsider my decision after I find the bughole producing load.

The cartridge is excellent, you made a good choice. I just think you are asking a lot from only 22" of barrel and a short action. Why not put on 2-4" of barrel and get one of those stocks that folds or collapses? You want to go out 1300 yds on an elk - which I think is awesome by the way - that is a heck of a mission. I would bring more barrel and/or a long action to the fight.

 

[Rangermi]

The cartridge is excellent, you made a good choice. I just think you are asking a lot from only 22" of barrel and a short action. Why not put on 2-4" of barrel and get one of those stocks that folds or collapses? You want to go out 1300 yds on an elk - which I think is awesome by the way - that is a heck of a mission. I would bring more barrel and/or a long action to the fight.

I've put an elk down at 1,300+ didn't try for that just the opportunity that presented itself. That was with a 6.5x284. Have a Blue Mountain 28 Nosler chambered for 195s now. Got them.going just shy of 3,100, but again it's got a 26" proof with a break and a 7-35 ATACR so not real compact. Funny you mention a folder, I was trying to get a XLR Magnesium but they are 12 weeks out.

 

[jbailey]

Have a Blue Mountain 28 Nosler chambered for 195s now. Got them.going just shy of 3,100...

Got it - That is your 1300 yd elk gun! Sounds like you have a good armory for lots of different missions. Good luck with this build, I think it will be a useful addition to said armory.

 

[Jabot]

7 saum
175- 180 bullets
Adg brass (excellent)
24" barrel
54.5 -56 grains 4350
2860 mv
Br2 primers had better sd federal 215 better groups (go figure that out)
Both 180 hybrids and 175 Berger elite hunter shoot excellent

 

[bodhisafa]

7 saum
175- 180 bullets
Adg brass (excellent)
24" barrel
54.5 -56 grains 4350
2860 mv
Br2 primers had better sd federal 215 better groups (go figure that out)
Both 180 hybrids and 175 Berger elite hunter shoot excellent

Data looks pretty close to 284 Winchester speeds. Guessing you have to run a 30 inch barrel compared to 24 inches for the saum?

 

[Jabot]

For speed I guess so . My buddy has one with a 26 " barrel he is getting 2930 with 175 eldx . I got mine over 2900 also but at this speed it was more accurate

 

[Army First]

7 saum
175- 180 bullets
Adg brass (excellent)
24" barrel
54.5 -56 grains 4350
2860 mv
Br2 primers had better sd federal 215 better groups (go figure that out)
Both 180 hybrids and 175 Berger elite hunter shoot excellent

I like those numbers, I'm watching this thread for info like this as I wait for the 24" 7SAUM barrel I have on order that shouldn't be much longer.
There also happens to be some BR2 primers waiting on the shelve.
Aware of this 7SAUM thread also.

Best of luck to @Rangermi. I'm watching for your replies too!

 

[Jabot]

With the br2 my es was 9 , sd 3.6 . But group size was 1". I couldn't get it any smaller. With 215 primers my es is 30 , sd 12 but it grouped way better. I am jumping both of these bullets 100 thousandths. Only way I can get them to feed in a mag

 

[Rangermi]

I like those numbers, I'm watching this thread for info like this as I wait for the 24" 7SAUM barrel I have on order that shouldn't be much longer.
There also happens to be some BR2 primers waiting on the shelve.
Aware of this 7SAUM thread also.

Best of luck to @Rangermi. I'm watching for your replies too!

Should be a sweet rifle when I'm done. This is before paint. Getting it done in Titanium Grey.

 

[Rangermi]

7SAUM is complete and ready for load development.

 

[Rangermi]

Getting pretty close to max with a 22" tube.
2.225" at ojive with 57.2gr of H4350 with a 210 Match.