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Gunsmithing New Barrel - Difference between 3 or 6 groove

shaneoc

Private
Minuteman
Dec 28, 2008
52
0
61
parkland, fl 33067
I am looking @ the Lilja Barrel site and i see barrels that are 3 grove and some are 6 grove........what is the difference on how one shoots compared to the other? For example a 308-10" twist (3-groove or 6-groove)

Also i can order from a 6 twist all the way to 16 twist.......the 6 twist would be for a heavier bullet like 208 gr to maintain stability for long distance, then like a 12 or 13 would be good for a 150 gr bullet. Am I right on the twist?
 
Re: New Barrel - Difference between 3 or 6 groove

6" twist in .308 would be for heavy subsonic (< 1050 fps) bullets (240g)
13 twist for 155g target shooters

10 is a all around for .308s

3 groove barrels take half as long to make (wink) and the lands are twice as wide.

My 3 groove .308 10 twist Lija shoots very well with 175gMK

 
Re: New Barrel - Difference between 3 or 6 groove

3 groove are said to stabalize the VLD bullets better. Some also claim better barrel life because of the heavier lands. I have shot both an could not tell any real difference between them.
 
Re: New Barrel - Difference between 3 or 6 groove

Theoretically dependent on the groove to land ratio, the 3-groove barrel might deform the bullet slightly less than compared to the 6-groove. Also, an odd-grooved barrel has a slightly tigher bore than an even-groove barrel of the same bore diameter and groove depth. In our instance the bore diameter would be .298"-.300" (depending on what is specified) and the grooves would be about .004" deep. On a even-groove barrel the grooves would be opposite from each other. On a odd-grooved barrel that grooves would never be opposite and as a result slightly tighter. That's one of the reasons for 5R, 5C, etc barrels.

To my knowledge, there as never been any definitive statement/conclusion about which (odd or even) is better.
 
Re: New Barrel - Difference between 3 or 6 groove

I found some good info for my question

http://www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilja_rifle_barrels.htm#3%20Groove%20and%206%20Groove

Q. What are the differences between 3 Groove and 6 Groove Barrels?

A. Almost all of the caliber and twist combinations in the rifle barrels we make are available with 6 lands and grooves. A few years ago we started to make barrels in a 3 groove configuration too at the request of some varmint hunters who were looking for longer barrel life. They were chambering barrels for hot 22 caliber varmint rounds and shooting the throats out of conventional 6 groove barrels fairly fast. We reasoned that if we reduced the number of grooves to 3 but kept the ratio of land to groove width the same (ie. the lands are twice as wide in a 3 groove barrel as compared to a 6 groove) that there would be more land area to resist heat erosion.

Well, it turned out that barrel life did increase and that accuracy stayed at least the equal of comparable 6 groove barrels. It is hard to put a percentage increase on barrel life but a conservative estimate might be 20%.

Benchrest shooters are always experimenting and looking for a competitive edge. Before long a few shooters, including Dan Lilja, were putting 3 groove barrels in 6PPC and 22 Waldog on their light varmint and heavy varmint class benchrest rifles. And these barrels proved to be very accurate. They started winning benchrest matches and soon became popular among the benchrest shooters. .

On the right is Dan with a .193" 200 yard group fired at a benchrest match in Billings Montana in 1998.

This was with a 6 mm PPC 13" twist 3-Groove Barrel.

And we found that as a side benefit the 3 groove barrels seemed to foul very little and clean up quickly. We attributed this to the reduced number of corners inside collecting powder and copper fouling.

This answer to 3 groove - 6 groove question is not meant to discredit the 6 groove barrels. They have consistently shoot extremely well over the years. Dan continues to shoot both 6 and 3 groove barrels on his benchrest rifles. But if you haven't tried a 3 groove you might consider one the next time you need a barrel. We do not offer them in all of our caliber and twist combinations. Our page with caliber and twist listings indicates if a 3 groove barrel is available. And we are frequently adding 3 groove buttons to our offerings. If you don't see that a 3 groove version is offered in the caliber and twist you're looking for, ask, we might soon be making it.
 
Re: New Barrel - Difference between 3 or 6 groove

Don't know if it helps, but the pic below... It's a Savage 10 FP with a Pac-nor 3 groove (ss match). Shoots like a dream and cleans easier too.