you'd have a pretty hard time chambering a 7SAUM in a 7SS chamber7 max and 7 ss both are wildcats off the 7 SAUM case.
you'd have a pretty hard time chambering a 7SAUM in a 7SS chamber7 max and 7 ss both are wildcats off the 7 SAUM case.
As soon as I have to fireform brass to have what I need, I would rather not. It will never gain widespread use, and will always be a niche cartridge. Now 7 Blaser magnum looks more interesting. Needs to come to the U.S.ADG makes fantastic 7SS brass, as good as any other brass. Sherman wildcats have really taken off pretty well.
Who really uses factory ammo for long range stuff anyhow? For factory 7ss, you could use 7 saum in a pinch.
Maybe we have different definitions of "widespread", but spend some time in hunting forums, and you'll see how "niche" the Sherman rounds are.As soon as I have to fireform brass to have what I need, I would rather not. It will never gain widespread use, and will always be a niche cartridge. Now 7 Blaser magnum looks more interesting. Needs to come to the U.S.
Find me a box of ammo on a shelf. Most hunters don't reload, so until it is on shelves it is niche.Maybe we have different definitions of "widespread", but spend some time in hunting forums, and you'll see how "niche" the Sherman rounds are.
remington did that long ago. It went no where.Dang, I forgot the 6.5 Remington Magnum, the 6.5 TCU and the 6.5 BR. That makes 19, 6.5 rounds that have either been commercially loaded or have a firearm/barrel commercially chambered for it. Guess at least one more would make it an even 20. If it could use an electrical primer that uses a battery powered capacitor instead of a chemical primer charge to ignite the powder would just about perfect.
let me tell you the last time i saw 7SAUM on the shelfFind me a box of ammo on a shelf. Most hunters don't reload, so until it is on shelves it is niche.
You just listed a bunch of niche cartridges......they might be plenty of people in this community that use them, but that does not make them widespread in the shooting and hunting community as a whole.let me tell you the last time i saw 7SAUM on the shelf
or 22 creed
or 6br
or 6xc
or 300NM
Well thats an odd and arbitrary qualifier. I can find you some pretty niche-y rounds that have factory ammo and some very popular options that dont have much for factory ammo.Find me a box of ammo on a shelf. Most hunters don't reload, so until it is on shelves it is niche.
I guess I should have stated in a normal market, but walk into 10 guns stores and see what is on all the shelves. You would normally find 30-06, 270, 6.5 CM, 22 lr, 223, 9mm 45 acp........the list goes on, but specifically in 7mm what would you expect to find? 7mm rem mag, 7mm-08, 280 rem.....maybe some weatherby mag? Not 7 SAUM or 7 SS or any other wildcat. I am looking for something that gains enough traction for many large companies to make components for. Think 6.5 CM, 6.5 and 300 PRC as examples of cartridges that have are on ammo shelves and have multiple large companies making ammo and brass for them. That is widespread.Well thats an odd and arbitrary qualifier. I can find you some pretty niche-y rounds that have factory ammo and some very popular options that dont have much for factory ammo.
SAUM died cause it doesn't fit in a short action
why is 6.5 creed and 6 creed 100 times more popular than a 260 and 243? intelligent case design
Add to that reloading component availability. Hornady has stuff from close to day 1. Remington might kick some stuff out once in a while.....and even then the data is limited as they do not publish load data.Everyone always says that its marketing, if it was only marketing it wouldn't still be popular 12 or so years later. We've seen lots of cartridges come and go in that time frame, yet the Creedmoor is still thriving. Hornady's real secret is in creating a whole system that works. Intelligent case design is the start, but having a rifle that is twisted for the long heavy bullets and having ammunition on the shelves (in normal times) that's optimized for long range shooting is the real reason they've been successful.
Remington is the king of designing really good cartridges (6mm Remington, 260 Remington, 7mm RSAUM, etc.) and then screwing the pooch by not producing the right ammo, not putting the right twist on barrels that are chambered in said cartridge, or not even chambering guns in said cartridges. Before the Creedmoor got popular, how many rifles in 260 could you buy over the counter that had 1-8" twist barrels? How many 260 factory rounds were available loaded with 140+ grain bullets?
Way less than 7 Saum, 7 SS....ect. Lapua, ADG, and Hornady all make brass. Dies available from multiple die manufactures as standards (Forster, Redding, Hornady, lee,....). Factory ammo from Hornady, once someone else big jumps on board with factory ammo it will be locked in. Widespread, maybe a little early for that. Way easier to jump into than 7 SS.yet we all use lapua brass
300 PRC and 6.5PRC. arent they niche?
you didn't watch the video did you? They are not selling a new cartridgeHornady as a company has a huge incentive to create a new cartridge.
They make Dies and reloading components.
They make brass
They make ammo
They have a huge marketing and R&D departments dedicated to doing exactly that.
What does Vortex have? How does creating a new cartridge help Vortex in any way?
Does it fill a need? Solve an issue? Improve on one of the 19 existing 6.5mm designs?
Whats the point?
With common hunter bullets 7 saum fits a short action really well.SAUM died cause it doesn't fit in a short action
why is 6.5 creed and 6 creed 100 times more popular than a 260 and 243? intelligent case design
Maybe you don't realize how easy it is to get into Sherman cartridges? Adg brass, Hornady, Forster, whidden, LE Wilson dies, readily available reamers at many shops (all 3 I talked to had them in inventory). Not sure what else you need?Way less than 7 Saum, 7 SS....ect. Lapua, ADG, and Hornady all make brass. Dies available from multiple die manufactures as standards (Forster, Redding, Hornady, lee,....). Factory ammo from Hornady, once someone else big jumps on board with factory ammo it will be locked in. Widespread, maybe a little early for that. Way easier to jump into than 7 SS.
you didn't watch the video did you? They are not selling a new cartridge
They don't in the podcast, but they surely do in this videoi think one of the amazing things is i have never heard a sherman cartridge mentioned on their podcast. ryan knows a lot but they do seem to elude him
They are available to the enthusiast, but not the general public. No factory rifles, ammo, ect. I am not saying they are hard to get into, I am saying I do not see them becoming the next 6.5 CM of the 7mm world. 7 SS will not come close to 7mm rem mag in popularity.Maybe you don't realize how easy it is to get into Sherman cartridges? Adg brass, Hornady, Forster, whidden, LE Wilson dies, readily available reamers at many shops (all 3 I talked to had them in inventory). Not sure what else you need?
I swear I'm not trying to argue, I just don't follow your logic.
let me tell you the last time i saw 7SAUM on the shelf
or 22 creed
or 6br
or 6xc
or 338NM
Probably only a matter of time before Hornady comes out with the 7 PRCThey are available to the enthusiast, but not the general public. No factory rifles, ammo, ect. I am not saying they are hard to get into, I am saying I do not see them becoming the next 6.5 CM of the 7mm world. 7 SS will not come close to 7mm rem mag in popularity.
Before the video launched I was talking about a new cartridge in 7mm that would mimic 7mm rem mag without the belt. That is a happy medium (as seen by the cluster of factory and wildcats in that area). The rem mag case design could just use a refresh, but I would like to see something that is widely supported in factory rifles and ammo. I reload, but not all my friends do. It would be nice to be able to give them a modern design in the very efficient and cost effective 7mm caliber for a long range and hunting round. It also is easier to get whatever you want when everyone makes stuff for it.
i'd bet its a 3.340 COAL magnumProbably only a matter of time before Hornady comes out with the 7 PRC
I dont think anyone would argue Sherman rounds will reach the level of 2 of the arguably top 10 most popular cartridges ever made, but that doesnt mean theyre a niche or not widespread (again, maybe we just define "widespread" differently). Doesnt seem like Richard designed those cases to usurp the mainstays - they are meant for enthusiasts who reload and appreciate/desire the most efficient cases possible.They are available to the enthusiast, but not the general public. No factory rifles, ammo, ect. I am not saying they are hard to get into, I am saying I do not see them becoming the next 6.5 CM of the 7mm world. 7 SS will not come close to 7mm rem mag in popularity.
Before the video launched I was talking about a new cartridge in 7mm that would mimic 7mm rem mag without the belt. That is a happy medium (as seen by the cluster of factory and wildcats in that area). The rem mag case design could just use a refresh, but I would like to see something that is widely supported in factory rifles and ammo. I reload, but not all my friends do. It would be nice to be able to give them a modern design in the very efficient and cost effective 7mm caliber for a long range and hunting round. It also is easier to get whatever you want when everyone makes stuff for it.
They don't in the podcast, but they surely do in this video
One problem with 7mm rem mag is barrel twist in factory rifles. Limits the fun stuff for longer range. if 7 PRC ever became a thing, Hornady would spec it with a 1:8 or 1:8.5 twist barrel. That would open the doors to the 180+ bullets in factory and reloads. they also would set it up for the heavy bullets, which is what long range would focus on anyhow. I am asking for a lot at once, but I can dream.I dont think anyone would argue Sherman rounds will reach the level of 2 of the arguably top 10 most popular cartridges ever made, but that doesnt mean theyre a niche or not widespread (again, maybe we just define "widespread" differently). Doesnt seem like Richard designed those cases to usurp the mainstays - they are meant for enthusiasts who reload and appreciate/desire the most efficient cases possible.
As far as your wants for factory performance rivaling the 7mm mag; whats wrong w/ the 7 mag if you need factory options? If you need more, get a 28 Nosler. The argument that belts are somehow bad is unfounded - especially to the crowd that only shoots factory rifles w/ factory ammo. (if you want better performance in a much more efficient case, get a 7 SS)
Exactly. I have two of those but never seen em on a shelf in my life. I know lots that shoot them though!let me tell you the last time i saw 7SAUM on the shelf
or 22 creed
or 6br
or 6xc
or 338NM
so you're saying that 9.5 twist 7RM factory rifle isn't the best option in 7mm? cause the twist sucks for precision loadings and only focuses on light hunting bulletsOne problem with 7mm rem mag is barrel twist in factory rifles. Limits the fun stuff for longer range. if 7 PRC ever became a thing, Hornady would spec it with a 1:8 or 1:8.5 twist barrel. That would open the doors to the 180+ bullets in factory and reloads. they also would set it up for the heavy bullets, which is what long range would focus on anyhow. I am asking for a lot at once, but I can dream.
My definition of widespread mainly looks at commercial availability of the entire system. You are looking at number of people and availability of components. Different goals have different definitions, one is not better than the other.
i'd be curious to see data for BR variant versus 6.5 creed/223/308 fired in the USA in a yearExactly. I have two of those but never seen em on a shelf in my life. I know lots that shoot them though!
Correct. Most won't shoot far enough for it to matter as the 160 range does well for hunting, but the 180-200 grain range adds a lot of capability for target work.so you're saying that 9.5 twist 7RM factory rifle isn't the best option in 7mm? cause the twist sucks for precision loadings and only focuses on light hunting bullets
so 7RM is no better than 7SS/7MAX then cause you need a custom barrel and you're reloadingCorrect. Most won't shoot far enough for it to matter as the 160 range does well for hunting, but the 180-200 grain range adds a lot of capability for target work.
You may be convoluting customer bases at that point. Most factory 7mm rem mag shooters dont give a crap about heavy for caliber bullets. They like their Core-Lokt or Partitions to do golfball sized 3 shot groups at 100 yards to go out and get their 2 elk/yr - what youre essentially asking for is a custom spec'ed rifle from the factory. I think Browning has been doing this to an extent w/ the Nosler rounds, and maybe Weatherby? But to get factory ammo mfgs to change their recipe of old rounds (especially anytime in the next few years now) will be a tough ask.One problem with 7mm rem mag is barrel twist in factory rifles. Limits the fun stuff for longer range. if 7 PRC ever became a thing, Hornady would spec it with a 1:8 or 1:8.5 twist barrel. That would open the doors to the 180+ bullets in factory and reloads. they also would set it up for the heavy bullets, which is what long range would focus on anyhow. I am asking for a lot at once, but I can dream.
My definition of widespread mainly looks at commercial availability of the entire system. You are looking at number of people and availability of components. Different goals have different definitions, one is not better than the other.
you'd have a pretty hard time chambering a 7SAUM in a 7SS chamber
The headspace of the SAUM is longer than the SSWhy is that?