Hmmm, though I generally agree that this is a game and people buy whatever they want, I wouldn't mind different classes like USPSA. The only thing that bothers me is the snobbish comments of being rich and holier than others. Very interesting time we live in where we look down on others over the internet to feed our own egos.
I live in northern VA. I don’t have a place to shoot outside of a 100 yards and it’s an hour away. I won the last match I shot with a rifle that was shooting inch groups.
We don’t have a lot near us, I usually have to drive 3-4 hours on the weekends for club matches. I drive a honda civic, not a raptor.
The sport isn’t accessible to everyone, just like many things aren’t accessible to everyone. I don’t own a boat, can’t afford it, but I don’t go on boating forums and bitch about how money wins bass fishing tournaments.
Practice your ass off however you can, borrow the gear you can’t afford to buy, there are no shortage of shooters willing to lend you the gear you think you need to be competitive. Being anything in any competitive sport takes sacrifice, there is no free lunch.
Though taking a look at your post history, it looks like you’re a lot more fortunate in the gear department than a lot of folks.
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OP should look into the multi-day ruck matches. You can use whatever you want but you have to carry it for 3 days. The gear pile slims down quick
Rich? I am not sure how many PRS shooters you know, but I can assure you that PRS ain't littered with the 1%. Most guys are managing disposable income well, doubling and tripling up in hotel rooms, driving 12-16 hours to a match when there is a 2 hour flight available and other financially efficient moves to make their dollars stretch.
There are some guys who max out credit cards, don't fund retirement and college accounts, and refuse to have emergency funds available for raining days. Some people have a higher debt tolerance than others.
Then there are the rich guys.
This hobby cost money but no more than any other adult hobby.... have you priced a bass boat lately or tried to purchase a drone of any quality?????
The big difference is that in this hobby you can usually recoup the cost of items like receivers, scopes, triggers, stocks if you decide to leave.
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Sierra, I'm fine with things costing money, it's a must that drives capitalism to the best products forward. But, how does the shooting community sound when it makes statements like go be poor somewhere else or you made terrible decisions in life. These are laughable comments to me because it shows how shitty people are to others sometimes.
I wish on the top 5 guys would go out to a two day match with a factory RPR in .308 with factory ammo and with a fixed powered SWFA and one bag
just to shut everyone up about this.
i'll pay for your match fee
just to shut everyone up about this.
i'll pay for your match fee
Pretty sure those comments are satire, because this entire thread is nothing but something to laugh at
i actually did my first hour of the first class i took
Vern Harrison Central Virginia Tactical...that man could read wind like a Doppler radar...crazy
i didnt know shit or have a opinion which was better back then either
but i remember asking the instructor
"so after i measure the target in mils i dont talk about that again, why dont they match the math would be so much easier?"
he told me "because their idiots"
https://peacemakernational.com/
If your location is correct, it'd a 90 min drive. They have PRS style matches.
Nobody cares whether your poor or not. Like typical socialists do, he apparently has an issue with others not being poor and somehow feels that that’s our problem or PRS’s issue to fix.
This thread wasn’t started by an individual having issue with a bunch or poor folks with their factory rifles and sub 1k glass competing in PRS. It was started by someone with less bitching about all the folks with more....
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Lmao, awesome shitstorm @JM4590 I read as sarcasm with a dig to the equipment snobs.
Not a cheap hobby by far. And I'm a cheap ass. The thought of a $400 scope mount or bipod makes me cringe.
How much is vanity and how much is pay to play is debatable. Maybe some folks skill is held back by equipment warranting better and some folks think expensive equipment can bridge the skills gap. Some people have money to burn so why not.
It's the same rabbit hole in any hobby really, fishing, drag racing, biking.
Not a cheap hobby by far. And I'm a cheap ass. The thought of a $400 scope mount or bipod makes me cringe.
How much is vanity and how much is pay to play is debatable. Maybe some folks skill is held back by equipment warranting better and some folks think expensive equipment can bridge the skills gap. Some people have money to burn so why not.
It's the same rabbit hole in any hobby really, fishing, drag racing, biking.
Lol don't be mad because you probably can't afford a sarcasm radar for chronographing quick smart ass comments.
Clearly you guys don't golf... I used to golf 3-4 times a week and pretty much quit that hobby when I started shooting more. Between memberships, green fees, drinks on the course, balls and clubs, golf is pricier for an outing.
Golf is also one of those sports where the stuff you buy one year is worthless the next. Whereas a rifle and gear is still worth money and still works fine years later.
It's all about what you want to spend (money and time). I don't shoot to compete with other guys. I shoot because I enjoy it and also spending time with other like minded people. If I do well, great. If I shit the bed, I guess I have things to work on. but I don't let my life depend on if I get a prize off the table or not.
Golf is also one of those sports where the stuff you buy one year is worthless the next. Whereas a rifle and gear is still worth money and still works fine years later.
It's all about what you want to spend (money and time). I don't shoot to compete with other guys. I shoot because I enjoy it and also spending time with other like minded people. If I do well, great. If I shit the bed, I guess I have things to work on. but I don't let my life depend on if I get a prize off the table or not.
Is dry-fire practice too expensive?
I'm in the it's more the Indian than the bow+arrow camp. I've seen factory 870's out shoot berettas in the duck blind and guys with factory tikkas outshoot AI's with S&B's. Obviously better gear offers some advantage, but quantitatively the skill of the shooter is going to move the needle much more. There's things like dry fire and wind reading and meaningful range sessions that can improve skill at low cost too.
I'm in the it's more the Indian than the bow+arrow camp. I've seen factory 870's out shoot berettas in the duck blind and guys with factory tikkas outshoot AI's with S&B's. Obviously better gear offers some advantage, but quantitatively the skill of the shooter is going to move the needle much more. There's things like dry fire and wind reading and meaningful range sessions that can improve skill at low cost too.
I'm pretty sure if Ruger and SWFA and the ammo company put up a $30k cash prize everybody would be all over doing that shoot.
Doug Koenig has been doing pretty well with an RPR and $1000 Leupold VX3i. He's currently ranked #1 in the Pro Series, and while I think that may be Production Class and not Open, he's still been top 20 overall at 5 of the 7 matches he shot this year.
Doug is a serious rock star in Pistol and 3-gun matches, but I think this is only his second season shooting PRS. And he's a nice guy to boot.
It's not the gear.
(Edited the "mostly stock" comment to remove any insinuation that Doug's gun isn't production legal. A member thought that I might've been suggesting it, and I certainly wasn't trying to imply anything of the sort.)
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Screw all you guys telling me it is not about the gear..
now WTF am I going to do with all this shit..
This thread hurts my feelings.
now WTF am I going to do with all this shit..
This thread hurts my feelings.
HAHAHAHA Love it.
I’ve been getting bored responding a lot on here, so have cut back on posting.
No jersey here. Don’t shoot positional good enough at this time. Even if I did, sponsorships in this game ain’t shit. And you really need to be interested in marketing a company. Which I’m not. If I think something is awesome (see zcomp threads) I’ll say so. If I think it’s shit (see opinion on comp trigger), I’ll say so.
Paid for all of my gear out of my own pocket and I prefer it that way.
I, for one, am all for sorting PRS competitors by income levels! As a college student my income is pretty low (I make about $10,000 over the summer and $5,000 throughout the school months), but I have enough scholarships and support (I can live with relatives) to be able to put much of that money towards my hobbies like shooting. I've got a similar rifle and gear setup to many of the "rich" competitors (full custom Impact Precision build, all the bags I feel I need), but could be competing against those who make similarly small amounts of money but have a lot less discretionary spending ability.
On a serious note though, this is a pretty terrible idea. Are we going to start forcing everyone to release their tax returns to shoot in PRS matches?
Gear can be helpful, but anyone can put together or buy a rifle that's accurate enough for around $1,000. If you're really on a tight budget you can even make do with a sub-$500 gun like a Savage 10-T or an AICS Ruger American Predator, though they'll be less than ideal. As far as bags, tripods, and other gear goes - I've never been to a match where people within a squad weren't willing to loan out bags and other equipment to any shooter in need. The jersey shooters don't really get much advantage from their fancy RRS tripod over other competitors if they're willing to allow others to use the same tripod on the same stages as they do, and I haven't yet been squadded with someone who wasn't willing to help out.
Ultimately I think cultivating a friendly, sharing, and helpful culture like this is the best and easiest way to approach this issue. To do my part I always make sure to tell my entire squad that if they ever want to use a piece of my gear they're more than welcome to do so. I also am more than happy to load up some extra ammo so that anyone at a match can use my rifle if they have problems with their own or can't afford it, so long as they just squad with me. If people have issues with their DOPE I'll load them up a profile in my Kestrel so they can get some accurate baseline information, and on the zero range I'll loan out my chronograph to anyone who doesn't know their speeds.
I'm not saying that everyone needs to do this type of thing, just that it's a common thing in the locale where I shoot and it's what made it possible for me to get into the sport. I went out to a couple local matches and spent nearly an entire year borrowing bags, bumming wind readings from others' Kestrels, and seeking out advice for when I would eventually put together my first "real" rifle build. The super helpful shooters I met along the way were key to me enjoying the sport and being able to afford it as I built up my own collection. If enough people go out of their way in this fashion, I think a lot of the perceived issues about some shooters having gear that others don't will go away.
On a serious note though, this is a pretty terrible idea. Are we going to start forcing everyone to release their tax returns to shoot in PRS matches?
Gear can be helpful, but anyone can put together or buy a rifle that's accurate enough for around $1,000. If you're really on a tight budget you can even make do with a sub-$500 gun like a Savage 10-T or an AICS Ruger American Predator, though they'll be less than ideal. As far as bags, tripods, and other gear goes - I've never been to a match where people within a squad weren't willing to loan out bags and other equipment to any shooter in need. The jersey shooters don't really get much advantage from their fancy RRS tripod over other competitors if they're willing to allow others to use the same tripod on the same stages as they do, and I haven't yet been squadded with someone who wasn't willing to help out.
Ultimately I think cultivating a friendly, sharing, and helpful culture like this is the best and easiest way to approach this issue. To do my part I always make sure to tell my entire squad that if they ever want to use a piece of my gear they're more than welcome to do so. I also am more than happy to load up some extra ammo so that anyone at a match can use my rifle if they have problems with their own or can't afford it, so long as they just squad with me. If people have issues with their DOPE I'll load them up a profile in my Kestrel so they can get some accurate baseline information, and on the zero range I'll loan out my chronograph to anyone who doesn't know their speeds.
I'm not saying that everyone needs to do this type of thing, just that it's a common thing in the locale where I shoot and it's what made it possible for me to get into the sport. I went out to a couple local matches and spent nearly an entire year borrowing bags, bumming wind readings from others' Kestrels, and seeking out advice for when I would eventually put together my first "real" rifle build. The super helpful shooters I met along the way were key to me enjoying the sport and being able to afford it as I built up my own collection. If enough people go out of their way in this fashion, I think a lot of the perceived issues about some shooters having gear that others don't will go away.
Simply put. It’s a hobby. It costs as much as your willing to put into it. I have 5 kids and am a single income family right now. You think I can place a 10k gun n optics out there? Hell no but I really do enjoy the smell of burnt powder with a ding. Save your pennies and shoot.
I’m thinking a Universal Equipment Dividend. We could start a new series, and everyone who signs up, gets a 1K check to buy whatever gear they think they need. Money would come from an entry fee tax from anyone shooting a custom rig, has a range finder that costs more than 3K, any top end scopes to exclude those less than $750, plus a .20 /per round for factory ammo. Hand loaders are exempt if they use Game bullets, non moly, or factory pulled. Shooters who leave brass at each stage can apply for an exemption, but will be at discretion of brand of brass discarded.
Starts troll thread...gets trolled... And asks why so serious...
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It wasn’t a troll thread. It was “ a let’s think this thing through” thread. There have been several posts by others that lean toward what I was saying. Only you fucking armchair warriors who have no fucking life have been offended. I didn’t call out ANYONE in this thread, yet several have taken it upon themselves to stalk my posts and call me out.
Get a fucking life bro! Nobody gives two fucks about you or your ability to hit a target at minimal distance with your AI and 6 barrel system or the fucking Nightforce stickers you got posted all over your POS gun case and in the back window of your wife’s van. I bet your the guy who shows up at the match and hasn’t placed in the bottom 50, but tells everyone what gear they need and how to run
With so many lower cost rifles shooting half inch groups in a game where 1 MOA is good enough, why should we separate classes by cost?
Hmmmmmmm....looks as though I struck a nerve ...pretty ballsy to put me in The group of no money without ever knowing me, seeing me, speaking to me, or having ANY idea of what I am about. For all your small mind knows, I COULD have sponsored a match or several shooters. Just sayin, my small minded, infinitesimal nothing of a shooter peon.
At least he’s shown up, which is one better than this fucking mess. Get off the internet and go shoot, so you too can understand why this is such a stupid idea.
Nobody gives a shit about what you have man, that’s the whole point of the responses you’ve received in this thread. Money doesn’t make the man, or the shooter.
Like anyone is supposed to believe you’d sponsor anyone with your resentment toward sponsored shooters anyway.
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What if you’re a poor racist?
Well...that falls into the infamous category of "Go Be Poor Somewhere Else".
I need to get a partial refund on my language lessons now.....
Sincerely,
Theis
You are mistaken my friend. Money does NOT make the man or the shooter, I agree, but equipment DOES make a difference. If you will go back a few posts, you will see that I said this thread was originally posted as 1/2 legit and 1/2 tongue in cheek. The dudes responding immediately took offense to the non- existing classes of shooters and began bashing of me and anyone else who lean d toward what I was posting. I truly have no animosity toward anyone In PRS or NRL....but the responses to this bullshit thread are telling. STOP! LOOK IN THE MIRROR......WHAT HAVE YOU AND YOUR 15,000 WORTH OF GEAR DONE FOR PRS ? Can I, as a new shooter, compete with you and your gear on an EVEN level? AND MOST IMPORTANT...if we were to limit $$$$ would there be new classifications and divisions of shooters? Now beyond this thread....let’s talk about what PRS was originally designed and do away with 5 bags, 20 pound rifles, barricades that are real world, and no time to game the stage.
Nobody here cares to hear your fucking whining dude..... quit your bitching. The only reason you’re not placing high is because you’re not good enough. Plain and simple. Only you can fix that.
Don’t like it? Don’t compete.
Your lack of money has nothing to do with your poor placing. Your shooting does...
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No whinning here bro. If you want to post up scores for matches we have shot ...I’m in. Lemme know where to start.
Oh shit! Nevermind.....you were THAT GUY who won the match down in podunk nowhere with the 10 competitors and told all the guys about your piece of shit rifle with the pencil thin barrel made by a no name manufacture with a stock 10 pound trigger , and a scope in second focal, but illuminated reticle, shooting factory ammo from online. Bet you carried all your shit for the match in a plastic Walmart sack too....just to show how fuckin operator you are.
Poor choice of words on my part. Didn't mean to imply that it's not stock.
If every new shooter was given $15k in gear at their first match they would still not be on an even playing field with the guy thats been doing it casually for a year with $2k worth in gear, much less the guy thats been working hard at it for years and happened to amass thousands in gear. How is that hard to understand?
I agree....but can you deny that high end gear gives one an advantage over others? PLEASE! There is no denying that a MDT chassis with a Bartlein barrel, and Jewel trigger , with a Spuhr mount and Schmidt Bender has and advantage over the Ruger RPR with Vortex PST. AND I AM NOT KNOCKING THE RUGER AND VORTEX! I have had my ass handed to me many a match by the local and his grampy’s rifle. More often than not....high end gear takes the match.....which = $$$$
