New here, Seeking Advice/Build for AR-15 5.56

RaccoonKing

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Good afternoon everyone,

New to this forum. I am fairly experienced with handguns and know a bit about semi-auto rifles, but I am not comfortable enough with my own knowledge to go out an build my own AR without some advice and assistance from more experienced builders. That is why I have come here seeking some knowledge/opinions from this community in order to build an AR that will last me for my lifetime if I am to never build or purchase another one.

Basic Specs I am looking to stay within:
- 5.56
- 16 - 18 inch barrel (open to thoughts on which one I should get if I am to only own one AR)
Total $$$ for the build (not including fancy sights or glass) should not be more than $1300 but willing to go as high as $1500 if deemed absolutely necessary in order to get the BEST bang for my buck)

I have come across some opinions about a LaRue UUP kit, thoughts?

Appreciate the help everyone

Long story short - I want to build an AR for between 1300-1500 that will give me the best shooting experience that money can buy and build an AR that will last my life time that is good enough to never NEED to buy a second one because this one is just so dang good. :)

EDIT - I have owned a Core 15 AR and used that as my "entry" AR but now looking to buy/build an ideal/ close-to-perfect AR

EDIT - Also open to what Twist you guys recommend: 1:7 vs 1:8
 
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Trigger Monkey

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    in order to build an AR that will last me for my lifetime if I am to never build or purchase another one.
    This is crazy talk

    ETA: If you're just looking for a general purpose "do all carbine" and not really looking for a precision rifle then it's not a hard recipe to figure out, something like a BCM Recce 16 checks all your boxes at just under $1500.

    If you're hell bent on assembling the rifle as your one and only AR then a little background in what you'll likely do with it, what ammunition you'll shoot, and all that will go a long way towards fleshing out good answers.
     
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    RaccoonKing

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    In all seriousness though you could just buy a Daniel defense ddm4v7 and save yourself the headache of sourcing parts. That’s just one example.
    I appreciate the suggestion, I did research and come across that one mentioned several times; however, the downside is that one is well above what I can spend at the moment as the average price i have seen for it is around $1800. Are there any other complete ARs that you'd recommend closer to 1300-1500?

    Appreciate it
     

    redneckbmxer24

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    Aaaaaaaaand it’s starting.

    In all seriousness, if you’re not knowledgeable about AR’s then just go buy a high quality rifle. That budget will get you a damn fine rifle. Personally I’d buy a Geissele or BCM in that price range.
     

    Milf Dots

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    Buy an LWRCi Di AR -and smile like you stole it. They're fully ambidextrous, too, so you can train support side shooting.
     

    roostercogburn98

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    06F70F08-9FF3-4AC2-9732-7DDCD600E8D2.jpeg
     

    TacticalDillhole

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    I appreciate the suggestion, I did research and come across that one mentioned several times; however, the downside is that one is well above what I can spend at the moment as the average price i have seen for it is around $1800. Are there any other complete ARs that you'd recommend closer to 1300-1500?

    Appreciate it
    That was just one suggestion. There are a ton out there. Some have already suggested some of the ones I recommend
     

    RaccoonKing

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    Aaaaaaaaand it’s starting.

    In all seriousness, if you’re not knowledgeable about AR’s then just go buy a high quality rifle. That budget will get you a damn fine rifle. Personally I’d buy a Geissele or BCM in that price range.
    Hahaha, indeed recent events do weigh on my mind. Perhaps i should have stated in my OG post that I have owned a Core 15 AR and used that as my "entry" AR but now looking to buy/build an ideal/ close-to-perfect AR
     
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    RaccoonKing

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    That was just one suggestion. There are a ton out there. Some have already suggested some of the ones I recommend
    indeed, there are a ton out there and searching has been somewhat overwhelming with the sheer amount of options for building and buying; thus, I am trying to get first hand advice/opinion/recommendations from experienced folk here. I appreciate your help :)
     

    RaccoonKing

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    This is crazy talk

    ETA: If you're just looking for a general purpose "do all carbine" and not really looking for a precision rifle then it's not a hard recipe to figure out, something like a BCM Recce 16 checks all your boxes at just under $1500.

    If you're hell bent on assembling the rifle as your one and only AR then a little background in what you'll likely do with it, what ammunition you'll shoot, and all that will go a long way towards fleshing out good answers.
    Do with it: some range time, ideally want it to function well while firing from 20 to 100 yards.
    Ammunition: standard 5.56, nothing too grain heavy. won't be running super dirty ammo from it, but if i did i wouldn't want it to freak out if that makes sense.
     

    Trigger Monkey

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    BCM Recce 16
    Geiselle Super Duty
    Springfield Armory Saint Victor
    Palmetto State Armory carbine

    Any of those will accomplish your stated goals within your budget. Couple it with a good red dot, my preference is Aimpoint and you'll be on your way.
     
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    RUTGERS95

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    definitely do not buy dd and bcm while nice, has a poor rep for accuracy. Geiselle has been littered with QC issues and while nice the rifles are new and not yet vetted not to mention people can't read as they are higher than 1300 . Stick to the winners with a track record so to speak

    lots of options in 1500 area; lwrc, colt trooper, aero, even smith and wesson has done very well in both accuracy and durability...to name a few.

    I'd go 16" vs the 18"
     

    Milf Dots

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    PWS MK1 Mod1

    Right now on GB there are four PWS MK1 Mod1 for under $1545. It's a no brainer!
     

    Vivacious Stallion

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    PWS MK1 Mod1

    Right now on GB there are four PWS MK1 Mod1 for under $1545. It's a no brainer!
    Personally, I wasn't very impressed with my PWS 114 mod 1 and I wouldn't recommend a proprietary rifle like that to someone that wanted their one "nearly perfect rifle". Mine didn't do anything better than a normal AR15 and wasn't particularly accurate or well gassed on any setting.
     
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    Milf Dots

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    Personally, I wasn't very impressed with my PWS 114 mod 1 and I wouldn't recommend a proprietary rifle like that to someone that wanted their one "nearly perfect rifle". Mine didn't do anything better than a normal AR15 and wasn't particularly accurate or well gassed on any setting.
    A sample of one isn't statistically significant. Also, their lowers are standard AR.

    I recommended a Di gun in comment 7.
     

    Vivacious Stallion

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    A sample of one isn't statistically significant. Also, their lowers are standard AR.

    I recommended a Di gun in comment 7.
    Would it have made you feel better if I did a power analysis first before posting?

    Obviously why I didn't respond to comment 7? The LWRC guns I've shot were solid performers and offer a lot of value for their price range.
     

    ssc45

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    My suggestion would be as follows:

    I would purchase a complete Sionics upper. They are on sale. I prefer their lightweight barrel, phosphorus BCG and 13 inch rail. It comes with a radian charging handle. They are in stock and on sale. They have great CS. These uppers are accurate and serve well under hard use. I have multiple uppers from sionics. You would be all in around $700. https://sionicsweaponsystems.com/la...er-receiver-group-phosphate-bcg-light-weight/

    Then I would purchase a BCM lower from brownells for $395 with their $45 discount. If out of stock, I would buy a Sons of Liberty lower for $349 with a $45 discount. If SOL, pick your choice of stock and trigger. You should be all in for the lower between $400 to $500. https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...&avs|Manufacturer_1=sons+of+liberty+gun+works

    Just some thoughts,

    Cheers, Steve
     

    houndog

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    As others have said, you really have a ton of choices. LaRue UU for $750 would be a solid choice and give you a lot of value. (I have owned a couple of LaRue uppers and they were all very accurate.) Given your budget, that will leave you $5-600 for a complete lower, or to build your own. Since you are relatively new to AR's probably best to go with a complete lower - not so much because it's particularly hard to put one together, but because you will be somewhat overwhelmed by your choices in parts. If you have a little more experience and knew what you like, building your own would be a great option. That way you could spec. your own trigger, charging handle, add ambi-safety, etc.

    Suggestion that you look at BCM lower is a good one, particularly if you can find it on sale. It's reasonably priced and of solid quality. Might want to upgrade the trigger to a LaRue. Aeroprecision would be another good choice. I'd kind of stay away from an Anderson receiver/lower since they can be out of spec.

    If you want to save money, there's nothing wrong with a complete PSA lower (maybe even a blemished one to save more money). It's definitely the budget option and won't be of quite the same quality as a more expensive lower, but it's not a piece of cr*p either.

    Finally, not sure why a prior poster suggested you avoid Geissele or Daniel Defense. Don't have any personal experience with Geissel uppers, but my understanding is that they are excellent with several features that enhance reliability. As for DD, I own a couple of uppers and they are top notch. They've got a hammer forged barrel that is both accurate and durable, are well made and reliable and would be an excellent (although somewhat pricey) choice. Unless you can find a very good deal on a DD upper, your budget really won't leave enough money for you to put together a solid lower (except maybe a PSA on sale).

    One final note, you just missed out on a terrific Geissele sale and could have bought a complete rifle that would have been within your budget. This is a great option, since you would also get a Geissele trigger. Don't really know when their next sale will be, but if your patient you can pick up an excellent rifle on sale (or possibly a blemished rifle) both of which would be great values and come with a bunch of upgraded features.
     

    RUTGERS95

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    As others have said, you really have a ton of choices. LaRue UU for $750 would be a solid choice and give you a lot of value. (I have owned a couple of LaRue uppers and they were all very accurate.) Given your budget, that will leave you $5-600 for a complete lower, or to build your own. Since you are relatively new to AR's probably best to go with a complete lower - not so much because it's particularly hard to put one together, but because you will be somewhat overwhelmed by your choices in parts. If you have a little more experience and knew what you like, building your own would be a great option. That way you could spec. your own trigger, charging handle, add ambi-safety, etc.

    Suggestion that you look at BCM lower is a good one, particularly if you can find it on sale. It's reasonably priced and of solid quality. Might want to upgrade the trigger to a LaRue. Aeroprecision would be another good choice. I'd kind of stay away from an Anderson receiver/lower since they can be out of spec.

    If you want to save money, there's nothing wrong with a complete PSA lower (maybe even a blemished one to save more money). It's definitely the budget option and won't be of quite the same quality as a more expensive lower, but it's not a piece of cr*p either.

    Finally, not sure why a prior poster suggested you avoid Geissele or Daniel Defense. Don't have any personal experience with Geissel uppers, but my understanding is that they are excellent with several features that enhance reliability. As for DD, I own a couple of uppers and they are top notch. They've got a hammer forged barrel that is both accurate and durable, are well made and reliable and would be an excellent (although somewhat pricey) choice. Unless you can find a very good deal on a DD upper, your budget really won't leave enough money for you to put together a solid lower (except maybe a PSA on sale).

    One final note, you just missed out on a terrific Geissele sale and could have bought a complete rifle that would have been within your budget. This is a great option, since you would also get a Geissele trigger. Don't really know when their next sale will be, but if your patient you can pick up an excellent rifle on sale (or possibly a blemished rifle) both of which would be great values and come with a bunch of upgraded features.
    Lol. Stays away from anderson because they could be out of spec but recommends psa. Can't make this up
     

    houndog

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    Rutgers, sorry I hurt your feelings - but your original post was off the mark. You bash DD with no real explanation. You claim OP can't buy a Geissele upper for less than $1,300, but he can get a 16" upper for $850 (albeit not Super Duty). Hell, during their Memorial Day sale you could buy a complete Super Duty pistol for a hair over $1,000. (I do agree with you that BCM do not have great accuracy).

    As for PSA, I can only tell you I've built at least one lower using PSA receiver. Completely in spec. and zero problems. Have also purchased one assembled PSA lower. Again zero problems. Yes, that's only a sample of two, but I honestly haven't seen a lot of complaints about PSA, whereas I have seen a bunch of threads complaining about Anderson lowers.

    Of course, I have no doubt that if you search the internet you will be able to find some thread on some forum where someone bitches about their PSA lower, but PSA cranks out a shit ton of parts the vast, vast majority of which are in spec. and GTG.

    And, as I acknowledge in my original post, PSA is a budget option, and if you want the last word in fit, finish and reliability you should probably spend a little more money.
     

    RUTGERS95

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    Rutgers, sorry I hurt your feelings - but your original post was off the mark. You bash DD with no real explanation. You claim OP can't buy a Geissele upper for less than $1,300, but he can get a 16" upper for $850 (albeit not Super Duty). Hell, during their Memorial Day sale you could buy a complete Super Duty pistol for a hair over $1,000. (I do agree with you that BCM do not have great accuracy).

    As for PSA, I can only tell you I've built at least one lower using PSA receiver. Completely in spec. and zero problems. Have also purchased one assembled PSA lower. Again zero problems. Yes, that's only a sample of two, but I honestly haven't seen a lot of complaints about PSA, whereas I have seen a bunch of threads complaining about Anderson lowers.

    Of course, I have no doubt that if you search the internet you will be able to find some thread on some forum where someone bitches about their PSA lower, but PSA cranks out a shit ton of parts the vast, vast majority of which are in spec. and GTG.

    And, as I acknowledge in my original post, PSA is a budget option, and if you want the last word in fit, finish and reliability you should probably spend a little more money.
    Lol no hurt feelings but your wrong. Psa sucks, just flat out sucks and plays qc roulette at your own peril
     
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    RaccoonKing

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    Thank you guys for all the help and comments.

    Instead of building, what about getting an LWRC?

    One or two of you mentioned them and I have read some good things. Are they a solid, long-term reliable rifle?

    Also, what is the general recommendation on twist and barrel length?

    Thanks guys
     

    RUTGERS95

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    Thank you guys for all the help and comments.

    Instead of building, what about getting an LWRC?

    One or two of you mentioned them and I have read some good things. Are they a solid, long-term reliable rifle?

    Also, what is the general recommendation on twist and barrel length?

    Thanks guys
    I'd reach out to corrie at centurion arms and have them build me one. That's a great option to be honest
     

    FuhQ

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    Good afternoon everyone,

    New to this forum. I am fairly experienced with handguns and know a bit about semi-auto rifles, but I am not comfortable enough with my own knowledge to go out an build my own AR without some advice and assistance from more experienced builders. That is why I have come here seeking some knowledge/opinions from this community in order to build an AR that will last me for my lifetime if I am to never build or purchase another one.

    Basic Specs I am looking to stay within:
    - 5.56
    - 16 - 18 inch barrel (open to thoughts on which one I should get if I am to only own one AR)
    Total $$$ for the build (not including fancy sights or glass) should not be more than $1300 but willing to go as high as $1500 if deemed absolutely necessary in order to get the BEST bang for my buck)

    I have come across some opinions about a LaRue UUP kit, thoughts?

    Appreciate the help everyone

    Long story short - I want to build an AR for between 1300-1500 that will give me the best shooting experience that money can buy and build an AR that will last my life time that is good enough to never NEED to buy a second one because this one is just so dang good. :)

    EDIT - I have owned a Core 15 AR and used that as my "entry" AR but now looking to buy/build an ideal/ close-to-perfect AR

    EDIT - Also open to what Twist you guys recommend: 1:7 vs 1:8
     

    FuhQ

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    TapRackBang

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    aside from this being a really stupid comment, no one is going to listen to anyone that buys a saint and brags about it. you should be banned for that alone!
    With Colt being bought by CZ they are in a much better place than they were before.
     

    Constructor

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    FuhQ

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    Did you know ER Shaw has a patent on spiral fluted barrels...that LWRC seems to have a spiral fluted barrel. things that make you go hmmm?
    Lothar Walther builds their barrels. Not every spiral-fluted barrel is made by ER Shaw. Don’t be an idiot.
     

    FuhQ

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    aside from this being a really stupid comment, no one is going to listen to anyone that buys a saint and brags about it. you should be banned for that alone!
    Brags about? No. Owns. Yes. That’s literally the cheapest AR I own, and they are $1,500 bare. Despite all the idiots on YouTube who don’t know how to clean a barrel or chamber before use, pretending that they’re junk or have problems... Mine works perfect, and is quite accurate for what it is. Don’t like that fact? Not my fucking problem.

    If you own anything made by Savage, Howa, Mossberg, CVA, Uberti, Thompson-Center, PSA, DPMS, Hi-Point, Diamondback, Core15, BRO, etc… you have absolutely no right to talk about someone else’s guns. 😂
     

    Constructor

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    Lothar Walther builds their barrels. Not every spiral-fluted barrel is made by ER Shaw. Don’t be an idiot.
    The VP at Shaw told me they have a patent on the spiral fluted barrels and even asked me to fill out a sheet and sign it so unless Lothar purchased the rights then it seems a little odd, I'm in the business and talk to some of these companies regularly. Now someone here posted LWRC use to buy the barrels from Canada and Woody and John at Lothar confirmed that years ago. The same guy just a few days ago said LWRC used Lothar for a while but have since moved on and could be making them in house. So fucq, who knows the real story? Don't be an idiot, just the facts please.
     

    FuhQ

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    The VP at Shaw told me they have a patent on the spiral fluted barrels and even asked me to fill out a sheet and sign it so unless Lothar purchased the rights then it seems a little odd, I'm in the business and talk to some of these companies regularly. Now someone here posted LWRC use to buy the barrels from Canada and Woody and John at Lothar confirmed that years ago. The same guy just a few days ago said LWRC used Lothar for a while but have since moved on and could be making them in house. So fucq, who knows the real story? Don't be an idiot, just the facts please.
    So, every spiral-fluted barrel has to be patent-approved by ER Shaw? That doesn’t seem plausible, or enforceable.

    They might be making them in-house now. I have no idea. Last I knew they were still using LW. I know my old 2009 M6A1 has a LW barrel in it.
     

    Constructor

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    So, every spiral-fluted barrel has to be patent-approved by ER Shaw? That doesn’t seem plausible, or enforceable.

    They might be making them in-house now. I have no idea. Last I knew they were still using LW. I know my old 2009 M6A1 has a LW barrel in it.
    Around 2007 I designed and machined a AR15 bolt that would allow shooting a 6mmBRX in an AR15, the BRX has the same diameter rim as a 308. I posted a photo of it on 6mmBR.com. I continued to run my business and produced several wildcats that used this .473 bolt I called the 800 series. In 2015 I get a registered letter with some guy named Kramer out of Vegas telling me he had a USE patent on all AR15 bolts larger in diameter than a standard AR15 bolt. He told me he would sue me if I did not cease and desist. I looked up the patent and sure enough he had one, the patent showed the date he filed. I went back to 6mmBR.com and found the thread where I posted the photo of the bolt. That photo was posted 3 months before he filed for a patent. I looked up the members of 6mmBR.com and found this Kramer...interesting. I hired an attorney and had him send Kramer a letter explaining things. I could have taken him to court and paid my attorney $500 an hour to work the case and prove his patent invalid but I didn't think it was worth it considering the amount of bolts I was producing for wildcat cartridges. Besides being an engineer it was easy for me to redesign and machine the bolts a different way avoiding his claimed USE patent. That word USE is important and has a completely different meaning than a DESIGN patent. Yes it is entirely possible to have a patent on spiral fluting.
     

    Constructor

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    Good afternoon everyone,

    New to this forum. I am fairly experienced with handguns and know a bit about semi-auto rifles, but I am not comfortable enough with my own knowledge to go out an build my own AR without some advice and assistance from more experienced builders. That is why I have come here seeking some knowledge/opinions from this community in order to build an AR that will last me for my lifetime if I am to never build or purchase another one.

    Basic Specs I am looking to stay within:
    - 5.56
    - 16 - 18 inch barrel (open to thoughts on which one I should get if I am to only own one AR)
    Total $$$ for the build (not including fancy sights or glass) should not be more than $1300 but willing to go as high as $1500 if deemed absolutely necessary in order to get the BEST bang for my buck)

    I have come across some opinions about a LaRue UUP kit, thoughts?

    Appreciate the help everyone

    Long story short - I want to build an AR for between 1300-1500 that will give me the best shooting experience that money can buy and build an AR that will last my life time that is good enough to never NEED to buy a second one because this one is just so dang good. :)

    EDIT - I have owned a Core 15 AR and used that as my "entry" AR but now looking to buy/build an ideal/ close-to-perfect AR

    EDIT - Also open to what Twist you guys recommend: 1:7 vs 1:8
    You'll get hundreds of opinions and arguments and it's not worth me adding mine but what do you want to do with it? Are you going to sit at the bench and try to shoot little groups? Are you going to shoot 3 gun? Are you going to train for SHTF yep there's that term. Do you want this to be a professional grade combat rifle that may not be that accurate but will be good enough to hit center mass at 100yds??
     

    FuhQ

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    Around 2007 I designed and machined a AR15 bolt that would allow shooting a 6mmBRX in an AR15, the BRX has the same diameter rim as a 308. I posted a photo of it on 6mmBR.com. I continued to run my business and produced several wildcats that used this .473 bolt I called the 800 series. In 2015 I get a registered letter with some guy named Kramer out of Vegas telling me he had a USE patent on all AR15 bolts larger in diameter than a standard AR15 bolt. He told me he would sue me if I did not cease and desist. I looked up the patent and sure enough he had one, the patent showed the date he filed. I went back to 6mmBR.com and found the thread where I posted the photo of the bolt. That photo was posted 3 months before he filed for a patent. I looked up the members of 6mmBR.com and found this Kramer...interesting. I hired an attorney and had him send Kramer a letter explaining things. I could have taken him to court and paid my attorney $500 an hour to work the case and prove his patent invalid but I didn't think it was worth it considering the amount of bolts I was producing for wildcat cartridges. Besides being an engineer it was easy for me to redesign and machine the bolts a different way avoiding his claimed USE patent. That word USE is important and has a completely different meaning than a DESIGN patent. Yes it is entirely possible to have a patent on spiral fluting.
    I'm sure they patented a specific style or type of spiral fluting, but what I was getting at, was that there's 1,000 different ways to spiral-flute a barrel...Depths, thickness between the flutes, thickness of the cuts, number of flutes, length of flutes, etc... You can't simply patent the overall function of spiral-fluting as a whole (just like you talked about with the bolt heads, doing them a slightly different way), as anyone with a milling machine with an auto-drive and an indexing head can spiral-flute something. It just seems egregious to try to patent the function, when there's 1,000 different ways you can do it.
     

    Constructor

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    I'm sure they patented a specific style or type of spiral fluting, but what I was getting at, was that there's 1,000 different ways to spiral-flute a barrel...Depths, thickness between the flutes, thickness of the cuts, number of flutes, length of flutes, etc... You can't simply patent the overall function of spiral-fluting as a whole (just like you talked about with the bolt heads, doing them a slightly different way), as anyone with a milling machine with an auto-drive and an indexing head can spiral-flute something. It just seems egregious to try to patent the function, when there's 1,000 different ways you can do it.
    "USE" patent
    As for the easy to flute, I know I was spiral fluting my barrels on a CNC and that is why I received the little paper from Shaw.
     
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    RUTGERS95

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    Lothar Walther builds their barrels. Not every spiral-fluted barrel is made by ER Shaw. Don’t be an idiot.
    dude again you are so fking dumb! Lothar Walther hasn't made their barrels since 2013. Dude, you're a fking clown
     

    RUTGERS95

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    "USE" patent
    As for the easy to flute, I know I was spiral fluting my barrels on a CNC and that is why I received the little paper from Shaw.
    you can't argue with this guy. He's one of those that 'thinks' he has a clue when all he has is empty pockets. He's a fking clown
     

    FuhQ

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    you can't argue with this guy. He's one of those that 'thinks' he has a clue when all he has is empty pockets. He's a fking clown
    You know, you keep bringing up my financial situation as if you know me… Dude, you’re the clown. 😂
     

    FuhQ

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    dude again you are so fking dumb! Lothar Walther hasn't made their barrels since 2013. Dude, you're a fking clown
    And you’re the smartest guy with Google…

    What's the matter Jersey Shore... You're panties in a wad?
     
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    Dildobaggins

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    BCM upper with BCM bcg, they have some in stock, and an aero lower. Im currently building a do all/shtf build.
    Mine is an aero upper and lower with parts kit. Aero handguard.
    16" criterion core barrel
    Tool craft BCG.
    AGL ACT trigger.

    Probably telling you what you already know, but you did say you are somewhat new. BCG and barrel in my opinion are the most crucial parts. You've got high-end and low-end lowers. I'd stay away from PSA or Anderson. If the lower is in spec than it's in spec. not say an aero or spikes etc. is equivalent to a DD or KAC lower, but they are just fine, and never did me or anyone else I know wrong...like ever. As far as barrels go, I'd try a larue, lother Walther, criterion, they are all modest pricing.
     

    Dildobaggins

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    aside from this being a really stupid comment, no one is going to listen to anyone that buys a saint and brags about it. you should be banned for that alone!
    Didn't colt stop selling firearms to civilians a few years back?
     
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    BCP

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    I built a rifle with a 14" URX rail and a 16" stainless barrel, stock is a magpul carbine and trigger is a chip mccormick. It's about the closest I have come to a "do it all". Do it over again would probably get a 12" handguard and then a 13.7" barrel and the pin/weld for 16" compliance.
     

    XikoPlavi

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    You mentioned you want to shoot the gun at 20 yards. That’s kind of weird unless your practicing to use it as a brawler. I have 2 custom ARs A 15 and a 10. Both are half MOA but honestly I think gas guns are kind of gay at this point. I’ll stick with my bolt action rifles. I mean don’t get me wrong I like my ARs and they can do double taps and all that shit but MEH. I’m not into multi shot blasts (pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop)