New lathe restoration project UPDATE: Now will CNC Milling Machine

[Shawnson]

I have wanted a lathe forever. Never had enough of a need to buy what I really wanted so I have always put it off.

This weekend I scored myself an awesome project. The guy wanted to give it to me for free but I threw him 100 bucks. Basically paid scrap metal price for it. It was involved in a house fire and it needs plenty of love. I was actually the officer that responded to the original house fire call when it happened.

I have never run a lathe before so I figure the rebuild process will teach me a good bit about it. Everything still moves smoothly and it was well cared for before the fire. Some rust doctor, wiring, lube, and paint should have it up and running again soon.

 

[mnchopper]

I have wanted a lathe forever. Never had enough of a need to buy what I really wanted so I have always put it off.

This weekend I scored myself an awesome project. The guy wanted to give it to me for free but I threw him 100 bucks. Basically paid scrap metal price for it. It was involved in a house fire and it needs plenty of love. I was actually the officer that responded to the original house fire call when it happened.

I have never run a lathe before so I figure the rebuild process will teach me a good bit about it. Everything still moves smoothly and it was well cared for before the fire. Some rust doctor, wiring, lube, and paint should have it up and running again soon.

Nice Score should'nt take much to get that one up and running heres a good site for information https://www.hobby-machinist.com/forums/

 

[BullGear]

I have wanted a lathe forever. Never had enough of a need to buy what I really wanted so I have always put it off.

This weekend I scored myself an awesome project. The guy wanted to give it to me for free but I threw him 100 bucks. Basically paid scrap metal price for it. It was involved in a house fire and it needs plenty of love. I was actually the officer that responded to the original house fire call when it happened.

I have never run a lathe before so I figure the rebuild process will teach me a good bit about it. Everything still moves smoothly and it was well cared for before the fire. Some rust doctor, wiring, lube, and paint should have it up and running again soon.

That's a nice one. Clean it up, replace anything that out of spec. Read about the process, get a few pieces of metal and have at it. You'll make mistakes, but that's how you learn.

You made a great score, now make the Hide proud!

 

[Shawnson]

That's a nice one. Clean it up, replace anything that out of spec. Read about the process, get a few pieces of metal and have at it. You'll make mistakes, but that's how you learn.

You made a great score, now make the Hide proud!

I was thinking about buying a Bartlein barrel blank and a chamber reamer as a first project. What could go wrong, right? If I buy a 30" blank I could probably fuck it up 3-4 times and still be okay. It would make for an entertaining thread at last.

 

[BullGear]

I was thinking about buying a Bartlein barrel blank and a chamber reamer as a first project. What could go wrong, right? If I buy a 30" blank I could probably fuck it up 3-4 times and still be okay. It would make for an entertaining thread at last.

That's stepping into the deep end. But hey, go for it. All you can do is ruin the blank. No blood please. Don't spill any blood.

 

[anotherwannabe]

Have you measured the spindle bore on it? You should be able to get a 36 inch piece of 1.5 diam cold rolled for about 30 bucks. this will let you do more test cutting and alignment than you know what to do with to get started. save the barrel blank until you’ve got it all working and restored.

what is the tailstock taper? i probably have an extra MT3 chuck you can have for shipping when you’re ready.

 

[Alphatreedog]

Get a spring loaded chuck wrench/key . Trust me .

 

[Shawnson]

Have you measured the spindle bore on it? You should be able to get a 36 inch piece of 1.5 diam cold rolled for about 30 bucks. this will let you do more test cutting and alignment than you know what to do with to get started. save the barrel blank until you’ve got it all working and restored.

what is the tailstock taper? i probably have an extra MT3 chuck you can have for shipping when you’re ready.

I was kinda kidding about the barrel blank lol. I was actually planning on doing exactly what you suggested. Spindle bore is 1.550. Tail stock is in fact a MT3. I will gladly take you up on that offer. Never realized how expensive tooling was.

 

[1moaoff]

I was thinking about buying a Bartlein barrel blank and a chamber reamer as a first project. What could go wrong, right? If I buy a 30" blank I could probably fuck it up 3-4 times and still be okay. It would make for an entertaining thread at last.

Check bore first. It may be small.

 

[ken226]

That's the Harbor Freight/Central Machinery version of the Zhejiang Kaida 12x36. They have been imported by Grizzly, Enco, Precision Mathews and many others for a couple decades.

The spindle bore should be about 1.47" . The backside of the spindle has a 1.5mm thread. Very easy to make a thread on cathead for working barrels through the spindle bore.

I used to have the Smithy version of that lathe. The cathead I made for that Smithy also fits by Birmingham 13x40.

I believe that is the same lathe as the old Grizzly G4002. Most of the parts from the current Grizzly G4003 will fit it. The G4003 has a slightly different headstock casting, but is otherwise the same.

For parts, get the PN# from the manual here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw1_HNQ4WToi7cxq8moPPQcU

Type the part# into the search field on Grizzlys website, and it should come up.

Grizzly still sells the G4002 stand, which should fit that lathe perfectly.

Lathe Stand for G4002

Lathe Stand for the G4002 (12" x 24" Lathe). Measures 49"L x 15"W x 29"H.

www.grizzly.com

I doesn't come with the chip pan, but you can make one, or order one from grizzly.

 

[BullGear]

Get a spring loaded chuck wrench/key . Trust me .

What happened when you turn on the lather while your chuck was still attached???

 

[ken226]

The G4002 is the 12x24 version of that lathe. The pedestals will fit, but the center divider will be too short. You can get that part seperately from the G4003 catalog.

Or, you could order the G4003 stand, which would all fit, but be much more $$. For some reason, they've been selling the 4002 stands cheap for a long time. Grizzly is a few miles from my house, so I'm in there all the time.

If it needs spindle bearings, it should take 30212 front and 30211 rear. Grizzlies manual lists 7xxx part#s, which is some kind of misprint. Those part#s are for angular contact bearings. Stick with 30xxx tapered rollers for a lathe.

123Bearing stocks Timken P5 rated bearings in those sizes. You can also find ZVL and FAG P5 bearings in those sizes from Amazon. I recently put a set of the Timkens in my Birmingham:




Measured with my Edge toolpost .0005" indicator.


If your rubber carriage way-wipes are burnt up, send me a PM. I have a bunch of 3d printed 2 piece pla/urethane way wipes, I can send you a set for the cost of a stamp. They are an upgrade over the stock ones anyway. I'm about 80% sure they'll fit.

 

[Halfnutz]

What happened when you turn on the lather while your chuck was still attached???

Your hand stays on the chuck key until you are done using it. Never leave it in the chuck. In many shops leaving it in the chuck will get you walked out, possibly permanently and for good reason. I have used a spring loaded one and disliked it as did everyone else in the shop. It disappeared or was "put away" where no one could find it.
No jewelry, no long sleeves or loose clothing, you probably dont need told to get a hair cut. Enough graphic videos out there to show a lathe has no mercy.

 

[BullGear]

Your hand stays on the chuck key until you are done using it. Never leave it in the chuck. In many shops leaving it in the chuck will get you walked out, possibly permanently and for good reason. I have used a spring loaded one and disliked it as did everyone else in the shop. It disappeared or was "put away" where no one could find it.
No jewelry, no long sleeves or loose clothing, you probably dont need told to get a hair cut. Enough graphic videos out there to show a lathe has no mercy.

Yeah, I even have a spring chuck for my drill press. Things can get ugly operating machinery, that is to be sure.

 

[Bradu]

I was thinking about buying a Bartlein barrel blank and a chamber reamer as a first project. What could go wrong, right? If I buy a 30" blank I could probably fuck it up 3-4 times and still be okay. It would make for an entertaining thread at last.

Either use round stock or buy a cheap green mountain 1 ¼" blank to practice on

 

[Alphatreedog]

What happened when you turn on the lather while your chuck was still attached???

I've never had an accident and it can kill . If you're forte is not being a machinist for a living use all the insurance you can .

 

[E. Bryant]

Things can get ugly operating machinery, that is to be sure.

Yeah, and lathes more so than anything else likely to be found in a home shop. Lots of tools will happily take off a finger or three, but lathes might rip off an arm and then beat the operator to death with it. The danger of these things cannot be overstated and respect must be given at all times.

That being said, it's incredibly satisfying to print that first sub-0.5 MOA target with a rifle built at home, or even just to make that one weird threaded standoff that isn't available in a catalog.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Your hand stays on the chuck key until you are done using it. Never leave it in the chuck. In many shops leaving it in the chuck will get you walked out, possibly permanently and for good reason. I have used a spring loaded one and disliked it as did everyone else in the shop. It disappeared or was "put away" where no one could find it.
No jewelry, no long sleeves or loose clothing, you probably dont need told to get a hair cut. Enough graphic videos out there to show a lathe has no mercy.

Take Halfnutz's advice very seriously. What most newcomers fail to realize is that lathes are geared down (depending on the speed they are running at) and once you get caught/sucked in, it's virtually impossible to get free. That's how limbs get lost.

Oh, and NEVER allow yourself to be distracted. If anyone comes into your work area, either have them leave, or shut the lathe down, if you must talk to them.

Safety Glasses !

 

[Shawnson]

If your rubber carriage way-wipes are burnt up, send me a PM. I have a bunch of 3d printed 2 piece pla/urethane way wipes, I can send you a set for the cost of a stamp. They are an upgrade over the stock ones anyway. I'm about 80% sure they'll fit.

PM sent. Thanks.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

There is some VERY good advice given in this thread. As well as guidance and assistance. Well Done, dudes!

As for the "chuck-key" debacle, I too am of the school where the RULE is, "the chuck key is either IN YOUR HAND or IN IT'S PLACE. It is NEVER anywhere else.

Of course, "it's place" being the location made/designated SPECIFICALLY to that tool, no-where else, and nothing else. Always and forever.

This rule applies to every chuck key, on every machine in the shop.

As for the 'base', just be sure to do your best at leveling the machine (x & y) and then you'll be golden. Enjoy your learning, and have a bench-grinder relatively close so that you can learn how to grind/shape/sharpen High-Speed-Steel (HSS) tooling.

And don't forget the face-shield.

 

[Shawnson]

Over the weekend I was looking through the manual and searching Grizzley's replacement parts catalog. I am rather impressed with their availability of parts for these machines. Every single replacement part I had Identified as being needed so far is in stock in the US.

Thanks for all the info gents. This is gonna be fun.

 

[Porksboy]

No such thing as a "free" lathe. cost of tooling alone is far more than the lathe.
Then you need a mill, a surface grinder, a tool grinder, a heat treat oven, a band saw, etc.

 

[Alphatreedog]

There should be a sticky or something in the exchange for tooling , carbide etc . If you look around or have a decent network of home machinists you can find stuff crazy cheap .

 

[Porksboy]

My latest lathe project. I use mine at work regularly and someone gave me this one. I need to get a new dc motor for it. It was ac but dc has more torque for the size.
Mine at work has a cross slide and I am currently working on an attachment to allow me to cut threads with it.
It is a watchmakers lathe. The collet is a 3.6 mm 8mm we pattern wire collet.

 

[Shawnson]

That's the Harbor Freight/Central Machinery version of the Zhejiang Kaida 12x36. They have been imported by Grizzly, Enco, Precision Mathews and many others for a couple decades.

The spindle bore should be about 1.47" . The backside of the spindle has a 1.5mm thread. Very easy to make a thread on cathead for working barrels through the spindle bore.

I used to have the Smithy version of that lathe. The cathead I made for that Smithy also fits by Birmingham 13x40.

I believe that is the same lathe as the old Grizzly G4002. Most of the parts from the current Grizzly G4003 will fit it. The G4003 has a slightly different headstock casting, but is otherwise the same.

For parts, get the PN# from the manual here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw1_HNQ4WToi7cxq8moPPQcU

Type the part# into the search field on Grizzlys website, and it should come up.

Grizzly still sells the G4002 stand, which should fit that lathe perfectly.

Lathe Stand for G4002

Lathe Stand for the G4002 (12" x 24" Lathe). Measures 49"L x 15"W x 29"H.

www.grizzly.com

I doesn't come with the chip pan, but you can make one, or order one from grizzly.

I am tossing around the idea of building a concrete stand with a granite top for it.

 

[Blutroop]

I was thinking about buying a Bartlein barrel blank and a chamber reamer as a first project. What could go wrong, right? If I buy a 30" blank I could probably fuck it up 3-4 times and still be okay. It would make for an entertaining thread at last.

Dude. Play around with scrap please then some old take offs. Please don’t pop your cherry on a new bartlein. I’m in the same boat of having to teach myself a skill set that many around here are good at.

 

[ken226]

I am tossing around the idea of building a concrete stand with a granite top for it.

Its been done by a couple members of the hobby machinist forum. I'm sure it would be great for rigidity and vibration damping. Maybe not so great if it needs moved.

Two concrete pedestals with granite tops, might allow for a decent size chip drawer between them.

 

[Shawnson]

Dude. Play around with scrap please then some old take offs. Please don’t pop your cherry on a new bartlein. I’m in the same boat of having to teach myself a skill set that many around here are good at.

Lol, totally kidding bro. I plan on making a good amount of chips before I take a crack at a 400 dollar blank.

 

[Shawnson]

Making some progress. I have a bunch of parts soaking in Evaporust right now. Ordered some parts from Grizzly that should be here Tuesday. I won't try running it for the first time untill those parts arrive. I am going to run power tomorrow so that it is ready.

 

[BullGear]

Looking good. Congrats!

 

[Not a Clue]

I was thinking about buying a Bartlein barrel blank and a chamber reamer as a first project. What could go wrong, right? If I buy a 30" blank I could probably fuck it up 3-4 times and still be okay. It would make for an entertaining thread at last.

Be careful with that thought. If you allow the material to hang out the backside of the lathe and run the RPM's too high, it'll whip, shake the machine across the floor, and possibly hurt someone quite bad. I've seen it bend 1/2" steel at a right angle. Luckily it wasn't me that did it.

Also, never use a file without a handle on it. When the tip of the file catches on a chuck jaw, it drives the tang into the palm of your hand. Luckily, not me, again, but have seen it happen and been close to it happening before.

Like mentioned before, that machine has been around forever. They all came from one factory in China, rebranded by anyone that wanted to do it. Did you get any accessories with it? 3 jaw chuck, 4 jaw chuck, collet system, steady or follow rest?

 

[Shawnson]

Update.

So the same gentleman has offered to give me two, yes that's right, two of his CNC converted mills. Both of them are about the same level of crispy (not bad) and both will require about as much work as the lathe. One is a Central Machine 44991 and the other is an Industrial Hobbies RF-45 with a three-phase motor and VFD.

This is the Central Machine.





This is a new version of the IH machine. I don't have current pics yet.



I feel like I am taking off a hell of a big bite for my first trip down the machining tunnel. I have experience with a lot of the electronic bits that go into a CNC just never to this scale.

 

[hlee]

The most expensive word you will even hear is “free...”

 

[Shawnson]

Be careful with that thought. If you allow the material to hang out the backside of the lathe and run the RPM's too high, it'll whip, shake the machine across the floor, and possibly hurt someone quite bad. I've seen it bend 1/2" steel at a right angle. Luckily it wasn't me that did it.

Also, never use a file without a handle on it. When the tip of the file catches on a chuck jaw, it drives the tang into the palm of your hand. Luckily, not me, again, but have seen it happen and been close to it happening before.

Like mentioned before, that machine has been around forever. They all came from one factory in China, rebranded by anyone that wanted to do it. Did you get any accessories with it? 3 jaw chuck, 4 jaw chuck, collet system, steady or follow rest?

As for the whipping, this machine came with a cat-head for the supporting barrels out the backside. I will still be careful when running excessive stickout.

As for accessories, it came with a 3 jaw, 4 jaw and a live center for the tailstock. The live center is questionable as to its reusability. I will need to source some of the other accessories that were too burned up to salvage.

 

[Shawnson]

The most expensive word you will even hear is “free...”

As long as he doesn't try to give me a free boat I think I will be okay.

 

[Mike Casselton]

As long as he doesn't try to give me a free boat I think I will be okay.

Watch out! Next free thing will be his wife or daughter.

 

[Shawnson]

Got a lot put back together after cleaning and rust removal. Evaporust worked really well. The ways cleaned up very nice. The Evaporust did leave some black discoloration in spots but the surface is smooth as glass. I replaced all the melted front switches but one of them is wired very different than the original and I hope I got it right. No instructions or pin out on the new switch. Thats the price you pay for cheap parts. I really wanted to try and start it tonight after I finished wiring the new outlet but... of course I grabbed a 20a 120v plug instead of a 240v one so it will have to wait for tomorrow

 

[Shawnson]

It's alive!

It powers on and runs fine. I only ran it for about a minute because I have not changed the fluids yet. All of the power feeds run in all directions as well. The motor may still fail in the future or even the near future but I can deal with that if and when it happens. I think if it does, I may do a VFD conversion instead of just replacing it. Spindle seems to have right at or maybe just a bit less than .001 runout from what I measure but I don't have a tenths indicator.

 

[anotherwannabe]

Very cool. Pick up one of these - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006J4U2O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 as your first sub thou indicator. graduations are .0005 but it resolves better than that and if you want to indicate into the bore (most do these days) it is the "standard" that almost everyone uses. You can pick up a short arm tenth later.

Have you already tried to adjust spindle bearings or was this just power on and see what it does? .001 isn't going to make you happy for gun work, but after oil change, warming it up, and adjusting bearings it might be better than you measure currently. or it might not be

 

[clcustom1911]

Take Halfnutz's advice very seriously. What most newcomers fail to realize is that lathes are geared down (depending on the speed they are running at) and once you get caught/sucked in, it's virtually impossible to get free. That's how limbs get lost.

Oh, and NEVER allow yourself to be distracted. If anyone comes into your work area, either have them leave, or shut the lathe down, if you must talk to them.

Safety Glasses !

And if a string/spool of metal starts developing whilst cutting, LEAVE IT! I was learning and cutting whatever metal I was practicing on... sting of metal began spinning... My dumbass use a small screwdriver to try and "push it away" from the rotating workpiece... screwdriver got caught in that spool, spool tightened up, took it out of my hand, and flung it into the wall with some serious force before I could even move my hand.

Stopped the lathe, took a few breaths and was very thankful that's all that happened. Bad, bad, bad things happen around rotating machinery.

 

[Threadcutter308]

And if a string/spool of metal starts developing whilst cutting, LEAVE IT! I was learning and cutting whatever metal I was practicing on... sting of metal began spinning... My dumbass use a small screwdriver to try and "push it away" from the rotating workpiece... screwdriver got caught in that spool, spool tightened up, took it out of my hand, and flung it into the wall with some serious force before I could even move my hand.

Stopped the lathe, took a few breaths and was very thankful that's all that happened. Bad, bad, bad things happen around rotating machinery.

Be very, very cautious around stainless steel bird's nests. If they are building up, interrupt the cut, stop the machine and clear it. I use pliers, maybe that's a no no to others.

When I first got started, I had a similar experience to what clc is describing above. Don't screw around with it, it can potentially hurt you real bad.

 

[Shawnson]

Very cool. Pick up one of these - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006J4U2O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 as your first sub thou indicator. graduations are .0005 but it resolves better than that and if you want to indicate into the bore (most do these days) it is the "standard" that almost everyone uses. You can pick up a short arm tenth later.

Have you already tried to adjust spindle bearings or was this just power on and see what it does? .001 isn't going to make you happy for gun work, but after oil change, warming it up, and adjusting bearings it might be better than you measure currently. or it might not be

I have not adjusted anything yet. That was just what I measured out the gate. I do intend to adjust the bearing. My indicator setup was probably less than ideal as well. I need to sit down and take some time to check it a little better later.