Re: New Rifle Itch ! Nemisis Vanquish Bug Biting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nemesis</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF6666"><span style="font-weight: bold">Mouse</span></span>, it sounds like you are a real DTA fan and good for you. They make a respectable rig, however with different intent. I would know this as, I have spoke to them in person at Shot Show and that is what they stated.</div></div>
Yes I like DTA quite a bit - for its ergonomics, support of multiple calibers <span style="text-decoration: underline">including 338LM</span>, accuracy, and reasonable compactness. Plus, I am partial to bullpup design.
Unlike RollingThunder though, I don't claim that "nothing, absolutely nothing" can rival DTA in anything. It's a darn good platform, but for specific applications and needs there could be better choices.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I must respectfully ask how much experience do you have behind the DTA product and if you own one, if so for how long.</div></div>
Yes I own one for more than a year, and have some experience behind it - not enough to be called an expert, but probably enough to form an educated opinion.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you do own a DTA, you would know that they do make a multi-caliber platform, however I have never seen, nor does DTA speak of retention of zero when disassembling and reassembling. Can you educate me on this?</div></div>
DTA platform
retains zero per barrel. When I zero my SRS with 308Win barrel, I record the scope setting. When I remove the barrel and disassemble the rifle, and then put it all back together - I don't need to re-zero. If I replace 308 with a different caliber (say 338LM) - I need to re-zero the first time this barrel is on, and again record the scope setting. From this point on, my recorded settings for 308Win and 338LM stay unchanged. I.e, when I return to 308 - I don't need to re-zero, but I do need to adjust the scope as the two zeroes (308Win and 338LM) do not match.
Speaking of retention of zero - please educate me: does Vanquish hold <span style="text-decoration: underline">the same</span> zero for every barrel/caliber, or does its zero change when you replace 308Win barrel with e.g., 260 Rem barrel?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The DTA breaks down for caliber swap with a wrench and several screws.</div></div>
Yes and no. Yes it needs a torque wrench to fix the barrel in place. No, the screws aren't "that" involved because they aren't removed or replaced - just four screws loosened and tightened (less than one full turn each) plus a lock-screw turned 180 degrees. Would something like what Vanquish does (hand-tightening the big nut) be better/easier? Maybe, probably (if for no other reason - then because no tool is needed). Does the "wrench-style" approach work? Yep. Especially since that same torque wrench is used to tighten the scope base screws.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know that combat snipers do not carry multi-barrels in the field...</div></div>
That would depend on the mission. I can imagine a mission profile that would benefit from multiple calibers. In any case, if/when your mission benefits from two different calibers - it's easier (lighter & more compact) to carry one rifle and several barrels. Most missions so far do fine with one caliber though.
One multi-caliber benefit is the ability to practice with a lighter/cheaper/less-kicking caliber, but take in the field a longer-reaching one - all in the same rifle (again - ergonomics, trigger, scope, etc).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ...as this would be cumbersome and probably very heavy with multiple types of ammo...</div></div>
Cumbersome? I don't think so. Heavy with multiple types of ammo? Yes it would add weight, and that's always undesirable - unless you really need it. Do you? It depends on the mission profile.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...and not knowing where your zero is.</div></div>
You're kidding, right?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would imagine a sniper going out with a system that can break down, fits into a 20” backpack and reassemble zeroing out every time would be the ticket.</div></div>
Again, depends. In some cases it doesn't matter that it can or cannot fit into a 20" backpack (or 16", or 25"), as long as it can be carried/delivered to the position conveniently. In some cases it would be just the ticket. And nobody - myself including - argues that it's not a good thing to be able to pack a precision rifle in a 20" backpack, because it's great! Kudos to the designer. On the other hand, wouldn't it be great if I could fit it into a backpack <span style="text-decoration: underline">without</span> having to break it down first? For example, Covert would fit in a 27"-30" backpack <span style="text-decoration: underline">fully assembled</span>.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand that you can break down an AK blindfolded and reassemble in 30 seconds, congratulations. What I would like to know is if that same rifle can shoot 3 inch groups at 600 yards afterward? I am not aware of one ever shooting that accurate. I am just trying to compare apple to apples.</div></div>
Yes I could hit a 3" target with AK - but not at 600 yards (before or after), and yes I could hit a target at 600 yards - but not of 3" size.
Seriously - AK was never meant to be a precision rifle. It was designed to hit man-sized targets within 400m range. It is unsurpassed in reliability and simplicity of use and maintenance. So if you need a precision rifle that can rely on good and regular maintenance and hit 0.5MOA at 600 yards - you shouldn't look at AK and/or SVD. If on the other hand you need a rifle that would fire with its intended accuracy regardless of how many <span style="text-decoration: line-through">idiots</span> unskilled individuals laid their hands on it, and what rotten conditions it had to "live" through - then you'd be hard-pressed to find something better.
To summarize the AK portion - you won't shoot golf-balls with it, but there are more men killed by it within the last 40 years than probably with any other rifle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One of the outstanding things I enjoy about this site is that most do not go on others threads to pee in pool.</div></div>
Now this is becoming interesting.
One of the things I enjoy about this site is that most members stay reasonably professional and abstain from statements in the tone of <span style="font-style: italic">"nothing, absolutely nothing comes close to <your favorite stick>"</span>.
I challenge you to point out a single statement of mine that is either derogatory in any way towards Vanquish or its manufacturer, or not factual (or both).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you would like to pee in this one, please get your video camera out and time yourself breaking down your DTA (barrel, bolt and mag) and reassemble it. Post it here for everyone to see how fast (seconds) you are and I will do the same. It will be fun to see if we are as fast as you while you are using a wrench. One condition, no power tools, snipers don’t carry them.</div></div>
OK, if in your thread setting the facts straight means "peeing in it" - fine. No promises, but as you insist my next post in this thread would be that "peeing" video. As for the power tools - no offense meant but you should really take a look at how DTA is put together (unless that was meant as a joke? If so - I missed it in the overall challenge tone).
In the meanwhile, here's the video of DTA SRS founder demonstrating caliber change at leisurely pace while talking and pointing things out:
Desert Tactical Arms SRS Multi-caliber Sniper Rifle.
Here (starting at around 2:45 mark) it shows a complete caliber change (again at fairly leisurely pace) in 1 minute:
Ultimate Weapons SRS Sniper System.
You tell me if you really want to see it done <span style="text-decoration: underline">by me</span> and in 20 (rather than 30) seconds per caliber, or if you really believe the presumed 10 seconds of difference matter. And if you do - this video from your YouTube channel
Nemesis Arms Vanquish .308 Sniper Rifle out of a Backpack demonstrates assembling the Vanquish rifle from a backpack (I started counting when the shooter got the receiver in his hands and stopped when he put it on the ground) in about 40 seconds. I noticed that the bolt and the magazine were pre-installed.
P.S. RollingThunder, AUG is a 5.56mm rifle only, not 308. There were 9mm AUG variants.
P.P.S. @Twisted .308, if your kick is takedown rifles - here's yet another takedown rifle (1MOA accuracy):
Alaskan CoPilot. I believe it breaks down in two 16" components.
