New Sierra 169gr SMK (.30)

blbennett1288

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    Damn i guess i just missed that? It's hard to keep up with sierra's releases because they'll literally redesign a bullet under the same moniker and suddenly the BC jumps because they've changed the ogive. But yeah the 168gr TMK kind of makes the 169gr SMK moot. I suppose the SMK is a little cheaper.
    Between the 169gr SMK and 168gr TMK, about $0.10/bullet. The 175gr is even more expensive.

    Personally, if I was using them in a match, yes I would go for the TMKs.
     

    NukeMMC

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    Hell i didn't realize the 168gr TMK had a .535 BC you're right. Is the 168gr TMK a new TMK or has it been out?
    The 168 TMK was introdiced in Jan 2015, according to the Sierra website.
    Ive done extensive testing with TMK's in 223 and 308. I did not find them jump sensitive at all as shown on my above seating depth tests. I shoot them in both bolt guns and AR's and both shoot very very good for me.
    No doubt you've tested these bullets significantly more than I, so I would defer to your testing, but I would encourage you to test these new bullets similarly. I would be interested to see if the new bullet's performance is as-advertised. It'll be interesting to see if Litz comes up with a decent G7 for it also. That tightened nose, a-la Nosler RDF, in combination with the longer boattail should make this quite a better performer than the 168 SMK.
     

    padom

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    The 168 TMK was introdiced in Jan 2015, according to the Sierra website.

    No doubt you've tested these bullets significantly more than I, so I would defer to your testing, but I would encourage you to test these new bullets similarly. I would be interested to see if the new bullet's performance is as-advertised. It'll be interesting to see if Litz comes up with a decent G7 for it also. That tightened nose, a-la Nosler RDF, in combination with the longer boattail should make this quite a better performer than the 168 SMK.

    I'll test them for sure. Same barrel and everything I have in the safe ready to go so it's apples to the smk and tmk I just extensively tested
     

    theLBC

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    will they keep making the "old" smk? i sort of like having the old reliable to count on out of my 1:12.
     
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    Bradv86

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    Bought 500 2 weeks ago... Good to see they will ship once labels are received.

    Remembered today I need a new .308 Win barrel LOL. Guess I should look for a Remage and tomato stake my factory tube.
     

    moosemeat

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    Isn't the 168 TMK marginally stable in a 1-12 twist at 308 velocities and the new 169 is designed around a 1-12 barrel with a factory throat?

    Just checked 168tmk 1.29 stability factor.
    168 smk 1.63 stability factor.
     
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    NukeMMC

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    I called the other day when the website didn't work and got 5 of the 100rd boxes. They'll be here tomorrow.
     

    lte82

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    Me personally, I just cant see how these make sense... The TMK's are superior in accuracy and BC.... I shot the SMK and the TMK's in my Bartlein vs Krieger 308 barrel testing a few months back and man those TMK's straight hammer. Measurably smaller groups consistently across the board with the TMK's vs the SMK's. They shoot great in my 20" Krieger/MEGA AR as well. I was a SMK guy for a long time, but these TMK's straight hammer for those of you that havent tested them.


    169 SMK - 0.527 BC
    168 TMK - 0.535 BC
    175 TMK - 0.545 BC



    Here is my 175 TMK seating depth test with 2 different charge weights in my 24" Bartlein 5R



    Have you trued them up beyond 600 yards? I found the 175 Tmk to have about the same BC as the 175 SMK. .260-.265 g7. In a 10 twist bartlein @ 2650.
     

    308pirate

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    Again, excellent bullets, but I find they are, like the TMKs, more jump sensitive. When running the same ammo between my 20" Proof barreled Mega gasser and my 22" Tooley/Bartlein AIAX, that is important.
    Interesting how two different people can have very different experiences with the same product.
     
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    db2000

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    Shipping is free when you buy nearly everything in stock. I left 25 boxes.
    84CFBEF7-5156-46AB-B149-AEA3DC166F70.png
    Just kidding 🍻
     
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    supercorndogs

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    will they keep making the "old" smk? i sort of like having the old reliable to count on out of my 1:12.

    You're 1:12 probably isn't going to have trouble with any bullet you pick. I used to shoot 208 A-max out off my factory 1-12.
     

    padom

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    Have you trued them up beyond 600 yards? I found the 175 Tmk to have about the same BC as the 175 SMK. .260-.265 g7. In a 10 twist bartlein @ 2650.

    Ive shot both of them to 700yd in my 24" Krieger 4G 1:11 twist with .308 Bisley chamber. Chrono numbers taken from Labradar shooting a 5x5.

    175 SMK
    42gr IMR4064
    2634
    SD 7.3

    175 TMK
    42.2gr IMR 4064
    2638
    SD 7.2


    I dont use G1 or G7. I use my Kestrel 5700 with AB Custom Curve for both bullets and here are my numbers for 700yds. Its been a few months since I shot this so Ill shoot all 3 at 700yd as soon as I get a box of 169 smk.

    175 SMK
    5.73 mil
    1.66 W 9mph

    175 TMK
    5.57
    0.4 W 9mph
     
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    lte82

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    Ive shot both of them to 700yd in my 24" Krieger 4G 1:11 twist with .308 Bisley chamber. Chrono numbers taken from Labradar shooting a 5x5.

    175 SMK
    42gr IMR4064
    2634
    SD 7.3

    175 TMK
    42.2gr IMR 4064
    2638
    SD 7.2


    I dont use G1 or G7. I use my Kestrel 5700 with AB Custom Curve for both bullets and here are my numbers for 700yds. Its been a few months since I shot this so Ill shoot all 3 at 700yd as soon as I get a box of 169 smk.

    175 SMK
    5.73 mil
    1.66 W 9mph

    175 TMK
    4.05 mil
    0.4 W 9mph

    You should double check your inputs and custom curve. I get the same data for the 175 smk, but your 175 tmk has the same elevation as my 6x47 w/ 109s @ 3000 FPS. Wind differences are also highly suspect.
     
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    padom

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    You should double check your inputs and custom curve. I get the same data for the 175 smk, but your 175 tmk has the same elevation as my 6x47 w/ 109s @ 3000 FPS. Wind differences are also highly suspect.

    Like I said, I'll have to reshoot them all 3 side by side. Something doesn't look right.
     

    lte82

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    This is with the AB 175 TMK custom curve @ 2638.
     

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    lte82

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    175 smk trued up at .264.
     

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    nn8734

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    Here is the 169smk (left) next to the 175, with corresponding measurements.
    59B8B428-74DB-44C9-9708-FC283267783F.jpeg

    3CCEBF4E-FDE2-42E4-A522-5A443AD8DE56.jpeg
    Going to load some rounds today and test them tomorrow in my Mk11 over LabRadar. Components I’ll be using are Varget in a lake city LR 07 case, Remington 9-1/2 primer. I’ll report back.
     
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    lte82

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    Here is the 169smk (left) next to the 175, with corresponding B-O measurements.
    View attachment 7548172

    View attachment 7548173
    Going to load some rounds today and test them tomorrow in my Mk11 over LabRadar. Components I’ll be using are Varget in a lake city LR 07 case, Remington 9-1/2 primer. I’ll report back.

    That 169 looks slippery. Even if the BC only works out to be the same as the 175, or just slightly higher, it will be a winner. The 178 ELD, 175 SMK & TMK, berger 175, etc all have roughly similar BC & velocity potential. If you can get another 100-150 fps and a tiny bit more BC it would probably match the performance of the 176 atip without the added cost.
     
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    nn8734

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    That 169 looks slippery. Even if the BC only works out to be the same as the 175, or just slightly higher, it will be a winner. The 178 ELD, 175 SMK & TMK, berger 175, etc all have roughly similar BC & velocity potential. If you can get another 100-150 fps and a tiny bit more BC it would probably match the performance of the 176 atip without the added cost.
    Yep, my thoughts exactly. If this bullet shows consistent, noticeably better performance at 700m in the Mk11, im switching over.
     
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    padom

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    175 smk trued up at .264.

    Yea I dont know why the hell my Kestrel is giving me that number when I selec AB CC..... My other inputs are right and 100% identical to my 175 SMK profile... Twist rate, height over bore, velocity, zero distance.. all the same.

    When I select G7 for 175 TMK I get 5.71 mil and 1.64 W 9mph. Every time I select AB CC for the 175 TMK it goes right back down to 4.06.... somethings gotta be up with that AB CC for that bullet. Im using AB CC for the 175 SMK and I get 5.73 mil and 1.66 W 9mph... weird
     
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    lte82

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    Yea I dont know why the hell my Kestrel is giving me that number when I selec AB CC..... My other inputs are right and 100% identical to my 175 SMK profile... Twist rate, height over bore, velocity, zero distance.. all the same.

    When I select G7 for 175 TMK I get 5.71 mil and 1.64 W 9mph. Every time I select AB CC for the 175 TMK it goes right back down to 4.06.... somethings gotta be up with that AB CC for that bullet. Im using AB CC for the 175 SMK and I get 5.73 mil and 1.66 W 9mph... weird
    Have you updated to the latest firmware 1.43? There was a bug in 1.31 that made some weird glitches. You might also try deleting the profile and sending it again with the kestrel link software, it could just be corrupted.
     

    padom

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    Have you updated to the latest firmware 1.43? There was a bug in 1.31 that made some weird glitches. You might also try deleting the profile and sending it again with the kestrel link software, it could just be corrupted.

    Yep 1.43 and deleted the entire profile from both my phone and kestrel and recreated 3x....same results every time
     

    lte82

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    Yep, my thoughts exactly. If this bullet shows consistent, noticeably better performance at 700m in the Mk11, im switching over.

    Hopefully they designed it like the 123 / 142 smk and not the 110!
     

    NukeMMC

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    Here is the 169smk (left) next to the 175, with corresponding measurements.
    View attachment 7548373

    View attachment 7548173
    Going to load some rounds today and test them tomorrow in my Mk11 over LabRadar. Components I’ll be using are Varget in a lake city LR 07 case, Remington 9-1/2 primer. I’ll report back.
    I think you have the BCs reversed.
     

    NukeMMC

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    I had the following data for 308 bullets with Hornady Ogive comparator:
    BulletWeightOALBTOG1 B.C. (max)G7 B.C.
    155 TMK
    155.0​
    1.270​
    0.5460.4640.238
    168 SMK
    168.0​
    1.196​
    0.6240.4340.222
    168 TMK
    167.9​
    1.344​
    0.5450.5030.257
    175 SMK
    174.9​
    1.242​
    0.6460.4740.243
    175 TMK
    174.9​
    1.363​
    0.6510.4970.254
     

    nn8734

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    It seems the 175smk achieves its .505 G1 only when traveling in excess of 2800 fps, otherwise it has a min G1 of .496 as long as it’s moving at least 1800 fps.
    814106DB-2F04-4C6C-8167-FA4824B07221.jpeg
     

    jzerfoss

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    I'm surprised that people are even interested in these other than the fact that they are available...
     

    NukeMMC

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    I'm surprised that people are even interested in these other than the fact that they are available...
    Because they're new ... and available.
    If you look at the advertised bc and velocity potential it has the potential to nearly equal the 168TMK at roughly $0.06 per bullet less cost, exceed 175SMK performance at $.02 per bullet less cost, and depending on how fast it can be shot without getting overpressure, could get close to 175TMK performance at $.07 per bullet savings. As for going up against the 168 or 178 ELDM, well I just had much better results from Sierra bullets in these weights/diameter than Hornady, but the Hornady 168s are $.05 cheaper while the 178s are about the same price.

    I am, by no means, a Hornady hater. I prefer the 208ELDM in my 300wm and the 140ELDM shoots great in my 6.5CM gas gun. My 260 prefers the 130TMK, then 130ELDM, then 140ELDM just above 140SMK or 142SMK.
     

    jzerfoss

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    Because they're new ... and available.
    If you look at the advertised bc and velocity potential it has the potential to nearly equal the 168TMK at roughly $0.06 per bullet less cost, exceed 175SMK performance at $.02 per bullet less cost, and depending on how fast it can be shot without getting overpressure, could get close to 175TMK performance at $.07 per bullet savings. As for going up against the 168 or 178 ELDM, well I just had much better results from Sierra bullets in these weights/diameter than Hornady, but the Hornady 168s are $.05 cheaper while the 178s are about the same price.
    I'd been shooting the Hornady 178gr hpbt (.540 g1 according to my kestrel app) for years and years and it's cheaper, usually more available, and shoots just as good as all of them are me.
     
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    padom

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    Thanks to @NukeMMC he sent me a 100ct box of these new 169smk to test. Gonna load up an OCW using my recently completed smk load data from the recent review and get them tested at 100yds. With only 100pc, Im hoping to get some proper OCW load workup and seating testing done in short order so I have some left over for long distance testing... We shall see, I dont want to cut corners on my normal load work up and seating depth testing. Need to find me another 100ct box so I can really do some testing at 300, 500, 700 yd after full load development.
     
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    jbuck88

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    Thanks to @NukeMMC he sent me a 100ct box of these new 169smk to test. Gonna load up an OCW using my recently completed smk load data from the recent review and get them tested at 100yds. With only 100pc, Im hoping to get some proper OCW load workup and seating testing done in short order so I have some left over for long distance testing... We shall see, I dont want to cut corners on my normal load work up and seating depth testing. Need to find me another 100ct box so I can really do some testing at 300, 500, 700 yd after full load development.

     

    nn8734

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    Thanks to @NukeMMC he sent me a 100ct box of these new 169smk to test. Gonna load up an OCW using my recently completed smk load data from the recent review and get them tested at 100yds. With only 100pc, Im hoping to get some proper OCW load workup and seating testing done in short order so I have some left over for long distance testing... We shall see, I dont want to cut corners on my normal load work up and seating depth testing. Need to find me another 100ct box so I can really do some testing at 300, 500, 700 yd after full load development.
    Are you going to test these in a bolt gun or gas gun? If a gas gun, I have to run them down to a BTO of 2.110 so they fit in the KAC mags (won’t fit in Pmags at that length). COAL is 2.850 when BTO is 2.110.
     

    padom

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    Are you going to test these in a bolt gun or gas gun? If a gas gun, I have to run them down to a BTO of 2.110 so they fit in the KAC mags (won’t fit in Pmags at that length). COAL is 2.850 when BTO is 2.110.
    With this box of bullets, 24" Krieger 4 Groove bolt gun.... I would love to test them in both an AR and Bolt as I have a 20" Krieger AR with only about 200rd on it but not happening with 100ct box of bullets.
     

    padom

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    I know I can buy them, but I wont be. I just spent over $1000's on the last 308 review completed just a few months back. I just agreed to test these because @NukeMMC offered to send me a box. If anyone else wants to donate a box or 2 I can get more in depth with the testing
     

    nn8734

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    With this box of bullets, 24" Krieger 4 Groove bolt gun.... I would love to test them in both an AR and Bolt as I have a 20" Krieger AR with only about 200rd on it but not happening with 100ct box of bullets.
    I started testing them in my Mk11 last weekend. I’ll be doing addl testing this weekend.

    Fired five rounds of a few initial 169 loads at a 2/3 ipsc targets @ 600m next to 5 rounds of my 175smk load and the 169s were flatter by .5mils to 600. Also wind hold was .2-.3 less than the 175s.

    I’m using 43.1g Varget, LC LR cases and R9-1/2 lrps.

    Assuming I can get back out there Sat or Sun for more testing, I’ll get a separate thread up on my progress by Monday.
     
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    Krob95

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    My Bullets are finally on their way! Can’t wait to try them out finally.
     

    stewarmy01

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    You have the 500 ct box Krob? Ordered mine back on Jan 25 and still no dice. Said they were waiting on labels. I don’t need a label just send me the damn pills! Lol
     

    Krob95

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    Yessir, and same. I called and they said it was hung up in shipping yesterday. Got a UPS notification this morning. Didn’t say it was from them. But the first scan is in Wichita, KS.
     
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    lte82

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    If anyone wants me to shoot their bullets for them I'll gladly do it as well. I'll most likely need powder and primers too, just to be clear. Brass is probably a good idea, as well as barrels and maybe some gas money. Fair deal I'd say!
     
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    NukeMMC

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    If anyone wants me to shoot their bullets for them I'll gladly do it as well. I'll most likely need powder and primers too, just to be clear. Brass is probably a good idea, as well as barrels and maybe some gas money. Fair deal I'd say!
    Well, if you shared as much data on loads as he, I may have sent you the bullets. He is well-proven as a great source of data on 223 and 308 loads in both bolt and gas guns with Bartlein or Krieger barrels. I'm happy to subsidize his time with my components .... besides ... he's reasonably local.
     
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    lte82

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    Well, if you shared as much data on loads as he, I may have sent you the bullets. He is well-proven as a great source of data on 223 and 308 loads in both bolt and gas guns with Bartlein or Krieger barrels. I'm happy to subsidize his time with my components .... besides ... he's reasonably local.

    Totally kidding. I do like your distinguished pin though!