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What group did you find these on? Can’t seem to find any other info yet. @Usmcsomerville
Looks like an AR, the M400 Tread Predator, released last year:
I thought they announced they weren't going to SHOT2022?
Lol sorry guys I totally forgot I posted that. It’s from (from what I can guess is a Sig rep in one of our Facebook groups). @chutinlead you are correct they are not going to ShotShow. This was a show in Louisville a week ago.
Supposedly it’s called the Born and Raised Outdoors edition? (Wtf with the name).
@Tx_Aggie you are correct that is the m400 predator.
@Kline it’s the Sig Sauer Cross private group. I attached a screenshot of the group. It’s hard to find though cuz the photos and details are from a conversation we were having and he hasn’t expanded on them. Heck my buddy who is a master dealer for Sig didn’t even know about these lol.
Supposedly it’s called the Born and Raised Outdoors edition? (Wtf with the name).
@Tx_Aggie you are correct that is the m400 predator.
@Kline it’s the Sig Sauer Cross private group. I attached a screenshot of the group. It’s hard to find though cuz the photos and details are from a conversation we were having and he hasn’t expanded on them. Heck my buddy who is a master dealer for Sig didn’t even know about these lol.
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Ok cool I guess. I have an ARCA rail mounted on mine and some milk Magpul rail covers that serve the same purpose. Doubt I would pay more than the price of those parts above the standard Sig Cross for it.
Curious that they didn't show off the shorter handguard version or any carbon fiber yet.
The born and raised outdoors model with the 24” barrel was discussed on here a few months back. I’d have to go back to find the post though.
The plastic hand guard cover thing is different, not sure what it’s purpose would be.
The plastic hand guard cover thing is different, not sure what it’s purpose would be.
Do we know if its just a handguard and barrel length change or a new version/updated action etc?
My google FU must be busted because I can't find where this version is available anywhere. I did find a weird not quite facebook video of Born and Raised giving one away around Christmas, but no mention of it on their website.
it was posted by I am pretty sure a Sig rep at a show they were just at. I can’t find anything online about it either. I’ll post details as I see them come in
I’m out on trying to turn this rifle into something it’s not. It’s a great field rifle, so easy to carry or slap on your pack. Bolt on a short arca rail section and leave that rail nice and trim for the most part.
Never even tried, not rocket science to see what the intent of this gun was. When I see folks strapping weights, etc on it, wtf? you picked the wrong gun skippy.
Totally agree. I might be interested in the full arca handguard if they sell it seperate, but thats it. My cross was great out in wyoming on my pdog hunt, riding in a side by side. If I want a heavier longer barreled rifle, i would just grab my comp rifle. The Cross is not built for that purpose.Never even tried, not rocket science to see what the intent of this gun was. When I see folks strapping weights, etc on it, wtf? you picked the wrong gun skippy.
Finally. The 277 sig fury round is posted on sigs website. Hopefully they move quickly on the cross accessories so i can purchase a 22 or 24 inch carbon barrel. They are also offering a cheaper plinking round for $34 a box. Much cheaper than the $80 a box for the hybrid version. https://www.sigsauer.com/search/277
According to their velocity, the 277 fury is even faster than I had thought. A 16" is moving a 150gr bullet at 3025fps.
Love it. I can now use my cross for any species in North America with that kind of energy.
With .277 you've got to know which ammo you'll be dealing with. The brass cased stuff is a few hundred FPS slower with a 130gr than the hybrid case 150gr. I am assuming the 1750FPS 100yd velocity on their site is a typo.
Looks like ~$4 a shot for the hybrid case ammo, which is less than I expected frankly.
Looks like ~$4 a shot for the hybrid case ammo, which is less than I expected frankly.
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These rounds should drop in price drastically if Sig wins the military contract. similar to the 308 and how cheap those rounds are because of the military using it. Wasn't the NGSW announcement already past due from December?
Yeah they're wrapping it up....we've seen the ammo contract (non-specific) and optics contracts drop already.
I don't know that ammo will drop dramatically for the commercial market. Winchester/Olin got the ammo contract to be performed at Lake City. In the event they're building .277 Fury ammo (we don't know yet), I would guess commercial ammo will still come from Sig. I am extremely sure they're not gonna drop it to 20% of the initial MSRP. Turning a steel base/rim and attaching it to a brass case is always going to cost a lot more at any rate.
I don't know that ammo will drop dramatically for the commercial market. Winchester/Olin got the ammo contract to be performed at Lake City. In the event they're building .277 Fury ammo (we don't know yet), I would guess commercial ammo will still come from Sig. I am extremely sure they're not gonna drop it to 20% of the initial MSRP. Turning a steel base/rim and attaching it to a brass case is always going to cost a lot more at any rate.
This is straight off the website. 16" sends a 150gr at 2830fps @ 100 yds. Impressive but not 3000+ we were expecting. Of course once it comes out we will all have better data.
That translates to 3000+ at the muzzle
Working that backwards I see 2973fps at the muzzle from a 16 in barrel. I'm pretty sure the 3000 claim from 2 years ago was for a 140gr bullet, not a 150 as listed. I'm sure if you dropped 10gr off, you'd be well past 3000.
Really weird to give muzzle velocity at 100 yards. That's not muzzle velocity. That's 100 yard velocity.
Agreed...muzzle velocity when the projo is 300 feet downrange is exactly ZERO.
Very odd data to give instead of the actual MV.
I'm more excited for the "wildcats" that will come from this than the 270 version. I'm sure we'll see it necked up and down from 243 to 338, just like the 308 was. And then people will also AI it.
7mm"fury", 338 "fury" both sound like great hunting rounds to me.
Anyone with a cross rifle have the maximum OAL they've been able to load a 308 or 6.5cm? Anything past 2.825?
7mm"fury", 338 "fury" both sound like great hunting rounds to me.
Anyone with a cross rifle have the maximum OAL they've been able to load a 308 or 6.5cm? Anything past 2.825?
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Until we get real data, I've just assumed 5fps per grain of bullet weight difference. Since that's in the ballpark of what I see on conventional rounds.
I'm being lazy and didn't want to read through 37 pages of comments so what MV are you getting for the 18" 6.5 creedmoor Sig Cross? I am looking for a factory bolt action in a chassis with a shorter barrel for chasing midwestern whitetail and occasional NRL Hunter matches. Thank you.
I for one like it. I was actually considering making something similar to it myself out of wood.
Not a huge fan of the feeling of cold aluminum in below-freezing temps... Currently rocking a Triad Tactical forend wrap for that exact reason.
The load for my 24” barrrel with the 147 eld is 2711fps. The same load out of my cross 18” barrel is 2512fps.
So about 200 fps lost.
I went with a 123gr Scenar to get velocity back up to 2775, and it seems to really like that bullet.
bummer. NRL Factory class needs 380k+ minimum for power factor. 123gr @2775 only gets me 341k for power factor. The last option is to use factory ammo but I haven't seen 8+ boxes (3 boxes for practice and DOPE and 5 boxes for the match) of match factory ammo in almost 2 years on the shelf.
I can load 178 bthp at 2.845 with room to spare in my 308. That length and a stout charge of IMR 4064 got me 2705 for a 5 shot avg.
None, but no accuracy. I get 3040 out of 130 grains. I am still fighting for accuracy in anything over the 150
308 with 155 Sig ball during the barrel break in. First 3 shot group with the rifle. Waiting on the TBAC muzzle break then I’ll probably get a ultra 7 ordered
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M80 is notoriously underpowered. The 130s I shot were government SOST rounds. Still not even pushing limits.
I havebtamed my 168 eldm loads down from 2700 to 2600 in hopes it would shoot better. No luck.
I got lucky and found a load that shot with 142gr ABLR and Superformance pushing them 2650. Same bullet topped out with H4350 at 2450fps. Still comes up short on your 380k PF by a few thousand. That was with Hornady Large rifle primers ammo. Might get it a little higher with lapua small rifle.
probably going to burn through a couple boxes of this stuff and use the brass for reloading. I have a fussy rifle I’m working on before I really dive into loading for the Cross
Good to know! Seems like good quality after sizing and prepping a few
Out of curiosity, what was the charge weight with H4350.
I have been using 140 gr Barnes match burners with IMR4350 when H4350 was hard to find at 42.1 grains of powder. I am also getting around 2650 fps with that combination.
I had not shot the Barnes bullet with H4350. I have shot the Berger 140 gr hybrids with H4350 at 41.5 grains and velocities were lower, but not drastically different like you described.
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The Magpul mags will handle 2.86"-ish, my 130gr TGKs are out at 2.85". I suppose if you used a metal AICS you could load to whatever will fit them (~2.95 ish with no binder I think).
I don't know if these hit your magic number, but they all shot pretty well in my Cross.
127gr LRX @ 2,742 fps (43.5 gr RL16)
129gr IL @ 2,760 fps (43.2 gr RL16)
130gr TGK @ 2,740 fps (44 gr 6.5 StaBall)
130gr TGK @ 2,823 fps (43.6 gr RL16)
142gr ABLR @ 2,680 fps (43 gr RL16)
140gr GD @ 2,670 fps (44.4 gr 6.5 StaBall)
140gr GD @ 2,688 fps (42.5 gr RL16)
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I'll go back and read this entire thread now after yesterday.
I haven't been doing much pew pew stuff lately (busy with family and the crazy project car I am building)
Yesterday at 2 different LGS I had a chance to fondle the exact same rifle......Sig Cross in 18 inch 6.5cm flavor.
While I have NOT fired one I'll say this....
The bolt is IMPRESSIVE!!!! Short throw and EASY!! Rifle is light weight and trigger is a pretty darn good 2 stage. It folds over bolt ....added bonus.
I didn't even know DD5 whatever it's called even existed.......the Sig Cross SHIT ALL OVER that rifle .....and for $1k less.
I'm loving short barrels more and more as time goes on.....is 18 inches a tad short for 6.5CM?........depends....still 2 inches lo ger than the rifle I'm about to build and with a can on the end of 18 inches ......about perfect
I haven't been doing much pew pew stuff lately (busy with family and the crazy project car I am building)
Yesterday at 2 different LGS I had a chance to fondle the exact same rifle......Sig Cross in 18 inch 6.5cm flavor.
While I have NOT fired one I'll say this....
The bolt is IMPRESSIVE!!!! Short throw and EASY!! Rifle is light weight and trigger is a pretty darn good 2 stage. It folds over bolt ....added bonus.
I didn't even know DD5 whatever it's called even existed.......the Sig Cross SHIT ALL OVER that rifle .....and for $1k less.
I'm loving short barrels more and more as time goes on.....is 18 inches a tad short for 6.5CM?........depends....still 2 inches lo ger than the rifle I'm about to build and with a can on the end of 18 inches ......about perfect
Thank you for your data. Unfortunately based on those values they don't meet NRL Hunter's Power Factor minimums. PF is 380k (bullet weight * MV). If I use factory ammo PF is exempt. Bad news is I haven't seen 7 or more boxes of premium or match quality factory 6.5 ammo in over 2 years.
Hornady: MATCH 6.5 Creedmoor, 140gr ELD , 20/Box
Hornady 81500: These jackets feature near-zero wall thickness variation, resulting in unprecedented concentricity and uniformity throughout the jacket.
www.milehighshooting.com That ABLR does. 142*2680=380560.
Ok, I can understand wanting 6.5 CM over .308 for most uses, but if that power factor is really a driving requirement, it seems like pretty much any .308 hand load would meet it. Power factor favors bullet weight, so, you might be able to get over the ~2,435 fps needed with something like the 156gr EOL. If you have some RL26 you should be able to make that PF with anything 140gr and up. I'm planning on trying some 147gr ELDs with RL16 today, if I do, I'll post up the velocities I get.
Btw, here are the velocities I got from some spreads I shot when my Cross was a .308.
| 168gr BT | ||
| Varget | Velocity | Power Factor |
| 44.4 | 2,518 | 423,024 |
| 44.6 | 2,557 | 429,576 |
| 44.8 | 2,547 | 427,896 |
| 45 | 2,555 | 429,240 |
| 45.2 | 2,562 | 430,416 |
| 45.4 | 2,562 | 430,416 |
| 45.6 | 2,571 | 431,928 |
| 45.8 | 2,606 | 437,808 |
| 46 | 2,606 | 437,808 |
| 46.2 | 2,604 | 437,472 |
| 168gr BT | ||
| AR-Comp | Velocity | Power Factor |
| 41.8 | 2,594 | 435,792 |
| 42 | 2,597 | 436,296 |
| 42.2 | 2,605 | 437,640 |
| 42.4 | 2,620 | 440,160 |
| 42.6 | 2,622 | 440,496 |
| 42.8 | 2,633 | 442,344 |
| 43 | 2,632 | 442,176 |
| 168gr ABLR | ||
| 8208 XBR | Velocity | Power Factor |
| 42.2 | 2,472 | 415,296 |
| 42.4 | 2,495 | 419,160 |
| 42.6 | 2,510 | 421,680 |
| 42.8 | 2,563 | 430,584 |
| 43 | 2,546 | 427,728 |
| 43.2 | 2,556 | 429,408 |
| 43.4 | 2,606 | 437,808 |
| 43.6 | 2,584 | 434,112 |
| 43.8 | 2,620 | 440,160 |
| 44 | 2,600 | 436,800 |
Obviously these are just spreads, not finished loads, so some of this is undoubtedly too warm, but it's a little bit of data from a factory .308 Cross none the less.
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