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New stock new load. Frustrating.

Pickle Rick

Pickle Rick

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 24, 2018
141
37
I’ve had a problem child (308 Howa 1500) for awhile now. Only gun I can’t get to shoot relatively good. After years of load development, I found one load it liked. Recently I got a new chassis (replaced Bell&Carlson stock) and took it out today with my tried and true load. I know if you make any changes it will effect results, but I didn’t expect to have the groups open up that much. I mean with a stiffer chassis I guess it may have changed the harmonics that much. Anyone go through something like this?

I’m seriously considering bedding the chassis. I don’t buy into the idea that it won’t make a difference on a chassis. I thought on the way home maybe something came loose. Nope, not at all.
 
whatsupdoc said:
"After years of load development"

Put a new barrel on it or get rid of it.
Click to expand...
I have several rifles. I only shoot this one a handful of times a year. But yes, my plan is to get a new barrel sometime in the future.
 
Plug the barrel and fill it with CLR overnight. Maybe you have not gotten as clean as you think. If it woont shoot a 168 or 175 smk afterwards then change the barrel.
 
Jrb572 said:
Plug the barrel and fill it with CLR overnight. Maybe you have not gotten as clean as you think. If it woont shoot a 168 or 175 smk afterwards then change the barrel.
Click to expand...
I have JB bore paste on order. If I don’t have good luck in the near future after that then I’m going to stop shooting it and save my reloading supplies until I get a new barrel.
 
I am not a fan of bore paste. but it’s your rifle. CLR and a scrub is super easy.
 
Jrb572 said:
I am not a fan of bore paste. but it’s your rifle. CLR and a scrub is super easy.
Click to expand...
Well I don’t think it could make things bunch worse lol also this barrel isn’t stainless I thought I heard somewhere CLR is only for stainless?
 
Use a bronze brush. If you’re using nylon maybe you have a carbon ring or just too much crap in the bore.
 
918v said:
Use a bronze brush. If you’re using nylon maybe you have a carbon ring or just too much crap in the bore.
Click to expand...
I do now. I wasn’t well informed as a new shooter years ago and never used a brush. I do now and have a borescope. I have hard carbon near the throat. Nothing too crazy tho. Hints the JB.
 
my fellow magpie , learning is not supposed to be painless now get back to it . lol
 
I think I was able to try some different powder charges around what I had been using.

Later ..... Edit: I looked at my notes and I ended up increasing the powder charge by 0.4 grain. But the thing that made the most difference was changing the primer. From CCI to Federal. I was dealing with 2 shots close with a third shot away by 1" to 1.5". This was a hunting rifle with a sporter weight barrel. Got it back down to less than 0.75 moa.
 
Last edited:
For what a Howa barreled action costs new, I'd ditch that hitch pin and grab a new one. Not worth the time and aggravation to deal with when most will shoot well.
 
When a gun comes around with a complaint of suddenly going out of tune, one of the first things to do is a light cleaning and have a look at the bore while the questions about the history are being asked, and then you check all the connections and look for damage.

Then, the ammo questions come up, like has there been a batch change in components or was this bad behavior from a known good batch?

Either way, a verification test doesn't hurt. If the known good ammo batch is available, I would tend to want some of that and a fresh attempt as well. It wouldn't be the first time somebody screwed up at a loading bench.

In your case, if you still have the previous stock, there is a thing called "post hoc, ergo propter hoc..." logic that says we would put that system back to where it was and verify the difference in performance is or isn't due to the last change you made.

If the gun doesn't repeat the known previous performance with the old stock, then at least you know there is something else gone wrong and it has nothing to do with the new stock. You then have to fix the root cause before you judge the new stock.

You may yet have to re-tune for a different stock, but at least you would know you had a chance. If you don't pass the above test, then you know to look for other causes.

These days, a borescope is far less expensive than before when they cost as much as some guns. Get one and watch your cleaning regimen.

Good Luck and Happy New Year!
 
Put it back in the old stock, if it still shoots like crap it's likely the barrel.
 
RegionRat said:
When a gun comes around with a complaint of suddenly going out of tune, one of the first things to do is a light cleaning and have a look at the bore while the questions about the history are being asked, and then you check all the connections and look for damage.

Then, the ammo questions come up, like has there been a batch change in components or was this bad behavior from a known good batch?

Either way, a verification test doesn't hurt. If the known good ammo batch is available, I would tend to want some of that and a fresh attempt as well. It wouldn't be the first time somebody screwed up at a loading bench.

In your case, if you still have the previous stock, there is a thing called "post hoc, ergo propter hoc..." logic that says we would put that system back to where it was and verify the difference in performance is or isn't due to the last change you made.

If the gun doesn't repeat the known previous performance with the old stock, then at least you know there is something else gone wrong and it has nothing to do with the new stock. You then have to fix the root cause before you judge the new stock.

You may yet have to re-tune for a different stock, but at least you would know you had a chance. If you don't pass the above test, then you know to look for other causes.

These days, a borescope is far less expensive than before when they cost as much as some guns. Get one and watch your cleaning regimen.

Good Luck and Happy New Year!
Click to expand...
I have a borescope
 
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Pickle Rick said:
I have a borescope
Click to expand...
Cool, missed that up above but saw it later.

Do you still have the previous "known" stock and "known" ammo? Maybe go backward a step and see if this load is still good in the old stock.

If the old stock and the old load still doesn't work, then you are in a different part of the debugging fault tree, but at least you don't blame the new stock.
 
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Pickle Rick said:
I’ve had a problem child (308 Howa 1500) for awhile now. Only gun I can’t get to shoot relatively good. After years of load development, I found one load it liked. Recently I got a new chassis (replaced Bell&Carlson stock) and took it out today with my tried and true load. I know if you make any changes it will effect results, but I didn’t expect to have the groups open up that much. I mean with a stiffer chassis I guess it may have changed the harmonics that much. Anyone go through something like this?

I’m seriously considering bedding the chassis. I don’t buy into the idea that it won’t make a difference on a chassis. I thought on the way home maybe something came loose. Nope, not at all.
Click to expand...
I fought a 300PRC Howa more than other rifles I have reloaded for. It wears an IBI barrel and Oryx stock now. My load is consistent now, but I’m afraid to change anything.
 
JaoeyP said:
For what a Howa barreled action costs new, I'd ditch that hitch pin and grab a new one. Not worth the time and aggravation to deal with when most will shoot well.
Click to expand...
I would just put a new barrel on it versus buying a new barreled action.
RegionRat said:
Cool, missed that up above but saw it later.

Do you still have the previous "known" stock and "known" ammo? Maybe go backward a step and see if this load is still good in the old stock.

If the old stock and the old load still doesn't work, then you are in a different part of the debugging fault tree, but at least you don't blame the new stock.
Click to expand...
I shot the old stock with the same load like a week before I put on the new chassis. I’m going to do a couple rounds of load development and if that doesn’t work it’s going in the safe until I get a new barrel.
 
The chances are better that your “tried and true” load isn’t as true as you initially thought if the gun generally shoots like shit

The other thing to check (not sure if howa is the same) is the action torque. Many are 65 inch lbs for chassis.

Another thing (again not familiar with howa) is that a tang isn’t contacting the stock on the rear of the action. Savage has a free floated tang and can cause issues if it’s not floated
 
1672682529611.png
 
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