New stock new load. Frustrating.

[Pickle Rick]

I’ve had a problem child (308 Howa 1500) for awhile now. Only gun I can’t get to shoot relatively good. After years of load development, I found one load it liked. Recently I got a new chassis (replaced Bell&Carlson stock) and took it out today with my tried and true load. I know if you make any changes it will effect results, but I didn’t expect to have the groups open up that much. I mean with a stiffer chassis I guess it may have changed the harmonics that much. Anyone go through something like this?

I’m seriously considering bedding the chassis. I don’t buy into the idea that it won’t make a difference on a chassis. I thought on the way home maybe something came loose. Nope, not at all.

 

[918v]

Maybe you shot the barrel out?

 

[whatsupdoc]

"After years of load development"

Put a new barrel on it or get rid of it.

 

[Pickle Rick]

I never kept count but this was a sudden change.

 

[Alabusa]

Did the stock have any contact with the barrel? Some have contact pads close to the end of the forend.

 

[Pickle Rick]

"After years of load development"

Put a new barrel on it or get rid of it.

I have several rifles. I only shoot this one a handful of times a year. But yes, my plan is to get a new barrel sometime in the future.

 

[Jrb572]

Plug the barrel and fill it with CLR overnight. Maybe you have not gotten as clean as you think. If it woont shoot a 168 or 175 smk afterwards then change the barrel.

 

[Pickle Rick]

Did the stock have any contact with the barrel? Some have contact pads close to the end of the forend.

No it was completely free-floated.

 

[Pickle Rick]

Plug the barrel and fill it with CLR overnight. Maybe you have not gotten as clean as you think. If it woont shoot a 168 or 175 smk afterwards then change the barrel.

I have JB bore paste on order. If I don’t have good luck in the near future after that then I’m going to stop shooting it and save my reloading supplies until I get a new barrel.

 

[Jrb572]

I am not a fan of bore paste. but it’s your rifle. CLR and a scrub is super easy.

 

[fdkay]

Howa will put out a bad barrel every now and then. Shit happens. Buy a howage barrel and quit throwing money away.

 

[Pickle Rick]

I am not a fan of bore paste. but it’s your rifle. CLR and a scrub is super easy.

Well I don’t think it could make things bunch worse lol also this barrel isn’t stainless I thought I heard somewhere CLR is only for stainless?

 

[Pickle Rick]

Howa will put out a bad barrel every now and then. Shit happens. Buy a howage barrel and quit throwing money away.

Preferred barrel blanks, criterion, who else?

 

[918v]

Use a bronze brush. If you’re using nylon maybe you have a carbon ring or just too much crap in the bore.

 

[Pickle Rick]

Use a bronze brush. If you’re using nylon maybe you have a carbon ring or just too much crap in the bore.

I do now. I wasn’t well informed as a new shooter years ago and never used a brush. I do now and have a borescope. I have hard carbon near the throat. Nothing too crazy tho. Hints the JB.

 

[Precision Underground]

What chassis did you put it in?

 

[acudaowner]

my fellow magpie , learning is not supposed to be painless now get back to it . lol

 

[Pickle Rick]

What chassis did you put it in?

Trybe ROCS.

 

[fdkay]

Preferred barrel blanks, criterion, who else?

Depends on your budget.
Shilen, also available from Shilen themselves.

Shilen Alternut Match Grade Barrel Howa 1500 Weatherby Vanguard 6.5

These benchrest-quality barrels are made to impressive tolerances. All match and select match barrels are air gauged on sensitive equipment and stress...

www.midwayusa.com

McGowan does them.
carbon six, they use McGowan blanks but they are carbon fiber wrapped

 

[ShtrRdy]

I changed from an HS Precision stock to a AG Composite and had to re-work the load.

 

[Pickle Rick]

I changed from an HS Precision stock to a AG Composite and had to re-work the load.

Did you have to just make minor tweaks or major?

 

[ShtrRdy]

I think I was able to try some different powder charges around what I had been using.

Later ..... Edit: I looked at my notes and I ended up increasing the powder charge by 0.4 grain. But the thing that made the most difference was changing the primer. From CCI to Federal. I was dealing with 2 shots close with a third shot away by 1" to 1.5". This was a hunting rifle with a sporter weight barrel. Got it back down to less than 0.75 moa.

 

[JaoeyP]

For what a Howa barreled action costs new, I'd ditch that hitch pin and grab a new one. Not worth the time and aggravation to deal with when most will shoot well.

 

[RegionRat]

When a gun comes around with a complaint of suddenly going out of tune, one of the first things to do is a light cleaning and have a look at the bore while the questions about the history are being asked, and then you check all the connections and look for damage.

Then, the ammo questions come up, like has there been a batch change in components or was this bad behavior from a known good batch?

Either way, a verification test doesn't hurt. If the known good ammo batch is available, I would tend to want some of that and a fresh attempt as well. It wouldn't be the first time somebody screwed up at a loading bench.

In your case, if you still have the previous stock, there is a thing called "post hoc, ergo propter hoc..." logic that says we would put that system back to where it was and verify the difference in performance is or isn't due to the last change you made.

If the gun doesn't repeat the known previous performance with the old stock, then at least you know there is something else gone wrong and it has nothing to do with the new stock. You then have to fix the root cause before you judge the new stock.

You may yet have to re-tune for a different stock, but at least you would know you had a chance. If you don't pass the above test, then you know to look for other causes.

These days, a borescope is far less expensive than before when they cost as much as some guns. Get one and watch your cleaning regimen.

Good Luck and Happy New Year!

 

[918v]

How does the new stock locate and control the flat bottom of the action?

 

[6.5SH]

Put it back in the old stock, if it still shoots like crap it's likely the barrel.

 

[Pickle Rick]

When a gun comes around with a complaint of suddenly going out of tune, one of the first things to do is a light cleaning and have a look at the bore while the questions about the history are being asked, and then you check all the connections and look for damage.

Then, the ammo questions come up, like has there been a batch change in components or was this bad behavior from a known good batch?

Either way, a verification test doesn't hurt. If the known good ammo batch is available, I would tend to want some of that and a fresh attempt as well. It wouldn't be the first time somebody screwed up at a loading bench.

In your case, if you still have the previous stock, there is a thing called "post hoc, ergo propter hoc..." logic that says we would put that system back to where it was and verify the difference in performance is or isn't due to the last change you made.

If the gun doesn't repeat the known previous performance with the old stock, then at least you know there is something else gone wrong and it has nothing to do with the new stock. You then have to fix the root cause before you judge the new stock.

You may yet have to re-tune for a different stock, but at least you would know you had a chance. If you don't pass the above test, then you know to look for other causes.

These days, a borescope is far less expensive than before when they cost as much as some guns. Get one and watch your cleaning regimen.

Good Luck and Happy New Year!

I have a borescope

 

[RegionRat]

I have a borescope

Cool, missed that up above but saw it later.

Do you still have the previous "known" stock and "known" ammo? Maybe go backward a step and see if this load is still good in the old stock.

If the old stock and the old load still doesn't work, then you are in a different part of the debugging fault tree, but at least you don't blame the new stock.

 

[Emerson0311]

I’ve had a problem child (308 Howa 1500) for awhile now. Only gun I can’t get to shoot relatively good. After years of load development, I found one load it liked. Recently I got a new chassis (replaced Bell&Carlson stock) and took it out today with my tried and true load. I know if you make any changes it will effect results, but I didn’t expect to have the groups open up that much. I mean with a stiffer chassis I guess it may have changed the harmonics that much. Anyone go through something like this?

I’m seriously considering bedding the chassis. I don’t buy into the idea that it won’t make a difference on a chassis. I thought on the way home maybe something came loose. Nope, not at all.

I fought a 300PRC Howa more than other rifles I have reloaded for. It wears an IBI barrel and Oryx stock now. My load is consistent now, but I’m afraid to change anything.

 

[Supersubes]

"After years of load development"

Put a new barrel on it or get rid of it.

Right? Id throw it away after “days” of load developement if it didn't shoot.

 

[Pickle Rick]

For what a Howa barreled action costs new, I'd ditch that hitch pin and grab a new one. Not worth the time and aggravation to deal with when most will shoot well.

I would just put a new barrel on it versus buying a new barreled action.

Cool, missed that up above but saw it later.

Do you still have the previous "known" stock and "known" ammo? Maybe go backward a step and see if this load is still good in the old stock.

If the old stock and the old load still doesn't work, then you are in a different part of the debugging fault tree, but at least you don't blame the new stock.

I shot the old stock with the same load like a week before I put on the new chassis. I’m going to do a couple rounds of load development and if that doesn’t work it’s going in the safe until I get a new barrel.

 

[hafejd30]

The chances are better that your “tried and true” load isn’t as true as you initially thought if the gun generally shoots like shit

The other thing to check (not sure if howa is the same) is the action torque. Many are 65 inch lbs for chassis.

Another thing (again not familiar with howa) is that a tang isn’t contacting the stock on the rear of the action. Savage has a free floated tang and can cause issues if it’s not floated

 

[supercorndogs]