Suppressors new to suppressors.

[Mr_Brass]

Hello all, I have been around the forum for a few months now looking around and learning alot (you guys rock.) I have been looking for information on suppressors for a little bit but didn't find what I was looking for.

Let me first stat by saying IM NOT BUILDING ANYTHING. I would like to build one just as a personal project (with paper work of course) but don't really know much about it yet. I just have a few questions about features and such as well as baffle striking, accuracy and things of that nature.

I am wanting to put a suppressor on a 223 remington 700 sps tactical. main use is going to be target whacking and varmint hunting (law check pending)

I was wondering what kind of accuracy effect will i get? does it depend on suppressor or what? I have been told by one of my local class 3 dealers that they kill any accuracy you have. Is this at all true? just want to be able to hit a 6 to 8 inch target at about 400 yards. And if suppressors do effect accuracy is there a big difference in homemade ones and commercial ones?

What in the event (and they seem pretty common) of a baffle strike? do i loose everything and have to start from scratch or is the tax stamp still good just have to get a new can? do warranties cover baffle strikes?

If I do get a can what are some good models to go with? I might want to use this on my 22lr too and a 223. (if that will work) I don't have $1,000 to spend on one so cheaper is better. But I still would like the best can possible. I was looking at these models

http://www.impactguns.com/store/YHM-3200.html

http://www.impactguns.com/store/TAC16.html

http://www.impactguns.com/store/HTG-ARISIIIBL.html

Like I said I have thought about building my own if I can turn out something of fairly decent quality. Unless its really that much better buying one of the above.

thank you all for your time I look forward to seeing what you guys have to say about this

 

[DustyJacket]

Re: new to suppressors.

Do a lot of reading at silencertalk.com

The outer tube is the registered part, so you only need a new stamp if you replace that.

 

[Mr_Brass]

Re: new to suppressors.

I'd really like to keep forum subsections to a minimum. I know enough people here use suppressors to give me good information if not then I'll go there.

thanks for the info about the registration.

 

[ainnamor]

Re: new to suppressors.

You can build one but unless you have access to a lathe, and mill depending on your design, and free materials, you are not going to produce something better then what you have listed for less money.

I have not used any of the suppressors that you have listed but I do own a few. There is typically a shift in point of impact but it should be consistent so you can compensate for it.

As for baffle strikes, I am sure that higher quality cans will produce less strikes. Also, use a good quality gunsmith to thread the barrel concentric to the bore of the gun. I have not had any strikes that I am aware of. (only one of my cans can be disassembled so I can't say for sure that a round has never touched any of the baffles in the other ones) None of my cans have been destroyed by one and I have thousands of rounds through them.

You really should check out silencertalk.com for reviews of products. I does not cost you anything and when you are talking about spending a substantial amount of money, you should be as informed as you can be.

 

[300WSM]

Re: new to suppressors.

can't shoot 22lr through anything but a 22lr can cuz of lead build up.

check out AAC if you want a good rifle can. Quick detach has a lot of advantages over thread on. Like - less likely to thread off/come loose. , can have a flash hider on the gun or muzzle brake. , goes on a lot easier. , easy to go from rifle to rifle.

If you ever plan on shooting 308 you might consider looking into the 762sd. You could use this with your 223 setup as well and the suppression is on par with a 223 can. Kinda like 2 for 1 heh

 

[300WSM]

Re: new to suppressors.

just don't go cheap. If your going to go through all the hassle of getting one, pay the 50-100 dealer transfer fee, pay the $200 tax stamp. You might as well get the best.

 

[Ranb]

Re: new to suppressors.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DustyJacket</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do a lot of reading at silencertalk.com

The outer tube is the registered part, so you only need a new stamp if you replace that.
</div></div>

I agree about going to SilencerTalk. But the silencer owner has to be aware that all silencer parts are by themselves a silencer. Replacement of any part by the unlicensed owner requires that another $200 tax be paid. A licensed class 2 can replace parts except for the tube, they can not increase the bore or lengthen the tube.

I make my own silencers as a hobby on ATF form 1's. My silencers are heavier and a bit less effective than the Gemtech and AAC models I have shot them against. But nothing beats the feeling of making your own. I invested about $2000 in tools including a lathe to make eight silencers so far, so I am saving lots of money. SSK wanted $2500 for a 510 whisper silencer that I made for $50 plus the tax.

A properly made and mounted silencer will change point of impact but not degrade accuracy. Any baffle strike, even those that barely touch the baffle and do not dent it are going to wreck accuracy. A sudden change in accuracy is probably going to be your first clue that something is wrong and silencer alignment or integrity needs to be checked.

Ranb

 

[Mr_Brass]

Re: new to suppressors.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The338LM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can build one but unless you have access to a lathe, and mill depending on your design, and free materials, you are not going to produce something better then what you have listed for less money.

I have not used any of the suppressors that you have listed but I do own a few. There is typically a shift in point of impact but it should be consistent so you can compensate for it.

As for baffle strikes, I am sure that higher quality cans will produce less strikes. Also, use a good quality gunsmith to thread the barrel concentric to the bore of the gun. I have not had any strikes that I am aware of. (only one of my cans can be disassembled so I can't say for sure that a round has never touched any of the baffles in the other ones) None of my cans have been destroyed by one and I have thousands of rounds through them.

You really should check out silencertalk.com for reviews of products. I does not cost you anything and when you are talking about spending a substantial amount of money, you should be as informed as you can be. </div></div>

Thank you very much for the information. Once I get serious about getting a can I'll go there for reviews on specific ones but for now I'll stick with the hide.

 

[Mr_Brass]

Re: new to suppressors.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can't shoot 22lr through anything but a 22lr can cuz of lead build up.

check out AAC if you want a good rifle can. Quick detach has a lot of advantages over thread on. Like - less likely to thread off/come loose. , can have a flash hider on the gun or muzzle brake. , goes on a lot easier. , easy to go from rifle to rifle.

If you ever plan on shooting 308 you might consider looking into the 762sd. You could use this with your 223 setup as well and the suppression is on par with a 223 can. Kinda like 2 for 1 heh </div></div>

I might put one on a 308 some day but no 308s in my future as of now

 

[Mr_Brass]

Re: new to suppressors.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just don't go cheap. If your going to go through all the hassle of getting one, pay the 50-100 dealer transfer fee, pay the $200 tax stamp. You might as well get the best. </div></div>

I wish I had the money for a KAC mk11 but that's not going to happen so the 3 I listed above are whats in my price range. if we didn't have these stupid taxes...

 

[Mr_Brass]

Re: new to suppressors.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ranb</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DustyJacket</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do a lot of reading at silencertalk.com

The outer tube is the registered part, so you only need a new stamp if you replace that.
</div></div>

I agree about going to SilencerTalk. But the silencer owner has to be aware that all silencer parts are by themselves a silencer. Replacement of any part by the unlicensed owner requires that another $200 tax be paid. A licensed class 2 can replace parts except for the tube, they can not increase the bore or lengthen the tube.

I make my own silencers as a hobby on ATF form 1's. My silencers are heavier and a bit less effective than the Gemtech and AAC models I have shot them against. But nothing beats the feeling of making your own. I invested about $2000 in tools including a lathe to make eight silencers so far, so I am saving lots of money. SSK wanted $2500 for a 510 whisper silencer that I made for $50 plus the tax.

A properly made and mounted silencer will change point of impact but not degrade accuracy. Any baffle strike, even those that barely touch the baffle and do not dent it are going to wreck accuracy. A sudden change in accuracy is probably going to be your first clue that something is wrong and silencer alignment or integrity needs to be checked.

Ranb </div></div>

Could you clarify about your first paragraph?

also could you tell me a bit about lathes? I have no experience with that kind of thing but I would love to learn how do use them and such.

 

[Ranb]

Re: new to suppressors.

Take a look at this FAQ. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-silencers.html

You need a lathe to make a light weight, sturdy and effective silencer. I would suggest that you get the best you can afford and think of it as a lifetime investment. The small cheap 12 inch hobby lathes are too shabby as far as I am concerned. I have a Chinese Grizzly 12x31 inch lathe and consider it barely good enough to do the work I do. It will turn down metal to within .001 inches, so it is good enough.

Silencers are very easy to make, I learned how to operate a lathe while making my first can for a 300 whisper. The most important thing to do is make the parts square so they align with the bore. I usually have my barrels thread by a pro to ensure the silencer mounts correctly.

You need to have a good idea of what you want before you make parts. Since parts can only be replaced by a class 2, or by yourself after paying another $200 tax, it is best to know what you want and make it right the first time. My first can used conical baffles and K baffles. I am going to try step cone baffles next. I go for extra volume to make up for any deficiencies in baffle design in my silencers.

Ranb

 

[Mr_Brass]

Re: new to suppressors.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ranb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take a look at this FAQ. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-silencers.html

You need a lathe to make a light weight, sturdy and effective silencer. I would suggest that you get the best you can afford and think of it as a lifetime investment. The small cheap 12 inch hobby lathes are too shabby as far as I am concerned. I have a Chinese Grizzly 12x31 inch lathe and consider it barely good enough to do the work I do. It will turn down metal to within .001 inches, so it is good enough.

Silencers are very easy to make, I learned how to operate a lathe while making my first can for a 300 whisper. The most important thing to do is make the parts square so they align with the bore. I usually have my barrels thread by a pro to ensure the silencer mounts correctly.

You need to have a good idea of what you want before you make parts. Since parts can only be replaced by a class 2, or by yourself after paying another $200 tax, it is best to know what you want and make it right the first time. My first can used conical baffles and K baffles. I am going to try step cone baffles next. I go for extra volume to make up for any deficiencies in baffle design in my silencers.

Ranb </div></div>

Just for the sake of asking what are the laws (if you know) about someone building a can and selling it to me? Like if you made a can and then I bought it off you (transferred and taxed and what not. I'm not asking you to build one just wondering if thats allowed.

 

[Ranb]

Re: new to suppressors.

If that someone is in your state and lives near you, then the best thing to do is submit the ATF form 1 and when it is approved, bring it to the person who is making it for you so they can make the parts. You have to be present while the parts are being made and bring them home with you at the end of the day’s work.

If I were to make one for you, then I would make it on a Form 1 ($200 tax); transfer it to a dealer in my state ($200 tax) who would then ship it tax free (ATF form 3) to a dealer in your state. When you took delivery of the silencer from the dealer on an ATF form 4, there would be a third $200 tax. Just between me and you, nothing I make on my lathe is worth $600 plus the cost of material and dealer handling fees.

I made a silencer for my brother on an ATF form 1 using a living trust in which we were both trustees. He submitted the ATF form 1 and I made it after he sent me a copy of the approved form 1. He did not have to be present when I made it (we are in different states) and any trustee in the trust can have possession of it as long as it does not violate (has to be adult non-felon) the law.

The law sucks, but it does not have to suck too bad in all cases.

Ranb

 

[Mr_Brass]

Re: new to suppressors.

dear god. I really don't want to pay 1200 bucks for a can. lol. what do you think the odds are of talking a small machine shop into making one like you said. In my state with me there and all? I don't want to go to one and be like sooo could you do so and so and have them call the cops..

 

[Ranb]

Re: new to suppressors.

It depends. Are the machine shop employees like the typical gun owner (the ones I know anyway) that think silencers are illegal and that anyone who wants one is a potential criminal? If they are, then you do not have a chance.

However if you know anyone at the shop and educate them on title 2 weapons first, then they might be interested in making parts for you. Be prepared to pay a good deal of money as time and tooling are not cheap at a machine shop. Depending on the shop, they probably dont let customers into the shop due to liability insurance reasons. If you can not be present while they are making the parts, then they can not do it leaglly without a license as far as I know.

If you just want a couple of silencers, then you are better off just buying them. If you are willing to commit time and money to a shop of your own, then making them is a fun hobby. I have never regretted buying my own lathe, it is lots of fun.

Ranb

 

[Mr_Brass]

Re: new to suppressors.

I would probably kill myself trying to figure out how to run a lathe. lol at the very least destroy a bunch of stuff. IDK guess I'll just save up for a few more years and buy a can