Newb M1A question???

[BARichardson]

Hey guys I have a chance to pick up a used (500 rounds) M1A scout for really cheep like 1/2 price cheep. My plans would be to put a fixed USO 10x that I have sitting around on it and see how far I can stretch its legs..

Questions are:

How is the accuracy of the scout squad?
What distances should I expect to be accurate at?
What other and all advice would you guys give???

 

[fmsniper]

i carried a M21 in Iraq= M14 modified. was a good rifle, I have owned a Scout, had it in a Sage EBR stock, both rifles shot well, around 1 -1.7 MOA, 10x scope is too much, get a variable, the scout with the short barrel is good to about 600 meters, mind you your thin barrel will heat up after a few shots.

All said and done, I have owned 6 M1A's in my life, and for Old battle rifles they are good, but at the prices they go for now a days.....I would get a AR10 style rifle, unless you already own one.

Just me


here is my Army Issue set up
if you decide to go with it anyway, I suggest the sage EBR or Troy battle stock

 

[BCP]

Hey guys I have a chance to pick up a used (500 rounds) M1A scout for really cheep like 1/2 price cheep. My plans would be to put a fixed USO 10x that I have sitting around on it and see how far I can stretch its legs..

Questions are:

How is the accuracy of the scout squad?
What distances should I expect to be accurate at?
What other and all advice would you guys give???

Get a basset low picatinny mount, 10X is a good magnification for one of these rifles

You can usually squeeze out a 1-1.5MOA 5 shot group at 100 but practically speaking they are 2-3MOA rifles for 10 to 20 round strings unless it has been rebarreled and glass bedded
600 is a good number for reliable hits, 800-1000 will be a pot shot most of the time
M14forum has a very small but knowledgeable crowd you will get better answers there

 

[fmsniper]

Straight 10 power scope is a bad idea for any rifle, unless you are bench rest shooting, I hated it on my issue M24, close in shots are impaired by field of view.

 

[EricCartmann]

I have played with the M14/M1A platform for a long time. Love the rifle, but it is really limited. Shooting match ammo, 1.5 MOA is about all you can expect out of these rifles. If you are not FF the barrel, then about 3 MOA at best.

The conclusion that all M1A is this: the best M1A set up is to just keep her stock and shoot her with Irons.

M1A's can be accurate to 1 MOA or below, but they take a lot of work and expense to accurize to this level, and in the end, it still will not be as accurate as an AR barrel you bolted on yourself. If an all out accurate Semi-Auto Rifle is what you want, I would stick with AR10 (or any other .308 AR that uses AR style locking lugs).

AR's are ready to be scoped, M1A's you pay a premium to scope it, and even then, the scope still will not be as stable and secure as if it were on an AR.

With AR's, all you need are some FF-Handguards to free float the barrel. With M1A's, you will need to get a Sage Type Chassis, this will run you about $800.

M1A's also have horrible cheek-weld, and to get the right site height you will have to add a doohickey-thingy. The AR platform comes ready to scope with with correct cheek weld, no modifications are doohickeys needed.

There are other doohickey's you can add to the M1A to accurize it, such as a unitized gas cylinder, NM oprod spring guide, etc. However, all these little mods are questionable if they even do anything. An AR do not have these special doohickeys and is already 1 MOA out of the box.

If you bought a barrel that did not meet your expectations, swapping them out is easy with an AR. All it takes is a wrench to take off and off. With M1A, every time you want to change the barrel on a M1A, you have to find that "magic headspace". It takes a lot of work to time the barrel and lap the bolt on a M1A, and most of the time this is done by a Smith.

 

[BCP]

Straight 10 power scope is a bad idea for any rifle, unless you are bench rest shooting, I hated it on my issue M24, close in shots are impaired by field of view.

Yeah I agree I like 3-9s and 3-15s especially if I will be hunting with it but if he has a 10x USO just sitting there I don't see a reason to not use it. He can always buy something else later on.

OP if you're reading this I'd say get that rifle especially if it is really 1/2x price, say 800-1000 bucks. You won't regret it as long as you shoot it with realistic standards, IE it's a battle rifle like an FN FAL not a bench gun. So don't be disappointed when you buy a box of federal match ammo and shoot a 2.5" group.

 

[fmsniper]

Love them FAL's I still have one in a para

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

+1 on

with Irons

 

[Smcarroll]

While my repr is the better of the 2 rifles, I love my m1a Nat match. I have a scope and mount for it but I really like it with irons. Its a big reassuring chunk of steel and wood.

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

I'd just get a scout scope or use it with irons.

They're excellent 1.5MOA rifles which is about all I'd expect out of any light barreled .308.

600-700 yards is do-able with a rack grade gun.

You can easily go out to 1000 with a match prepped gun. I have one that I did the whole nine yards to and it shoots exceptionally well; I put 12/20 shots in the 3 inch X ring when I shot it at Perry with green box Remington ammo.

5 Shot group from sandbags. Load was an M118LR clone. 5 shots with white were shot from a bipod and came out to just over an inch if I recall.

3 inch shot spotter from Camp Perry. Lots of holes in it.

3 shot group. I chose the most impressive one. This is from testing the tracking on the scope. The middle group came out to just under an inch. Theres also a bottom group that is just over 1/2 inch.

The rifle as it currently resides. I need to get LR dope on it and take it out to a DM match.

I'd say mine is capable of running with everyone else's .308 AR10s, but I've had a little bit of the secret magic passed on to me that makes them shoot.

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[Smcarroll]

Since this thread is for m1a newbie questions, you guys ever shoot 190 smk's out of yours?

 

[EricCartmann]

Since this thread is for m1a newbie questions, you guys ever shoot 190 smk's out of yours?

I would not do it. Heavy Bullets have more mass, and causes more recoil, and will require more powder to group decently. Also M14's are not good with hot loads, as bent oprods is very common when things get too hot. I have a mild load I use with my M1A, 175gr SMK with 41.5 gr of Varget. Groups decent, and won't beat up the rifle.

 

[EricCartmann]

Oh and don't think I am a M14 hater. I have 2! Love the platform despite the limitations.

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

I would not do it. Heavy Bullets have more mass, and causes more recoil, and will require more powder to group decently. Also M14's are not good with hot loads, as bent oprods is very common when things get too hot. I have a mild load I use with my M1A, 175gr SMK with 41.5 gr of Varget. Groups decent, and won't beat up the rifle.

Only reason to use 190s is LR Service Rifle and if the year is 1988.


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[Smcarroll]

I figured it was not a great idea. I don't load over 180 for my m1 for the same reason. Mine really likes the 168 amax and either varget or 15, I save the 175's for the repr it loves them.

 

[Smcarroll]

Oh and don't think I am a M14 hater. I have 2! Love the platform despite the limitations.

I can't bring myself to restock my m1a. The old walnut just feels right.

 

[EricCartmann]

I can't bring myself to restock my m1a. The old walnut just feels right.

I agree, wood just feels right. wood and irons is best when it comes to the M14. I also do like scopes sometimes, and I have my Scoped M1A set up right to properly run a scope. Solid mounting platform, correct cheek height, Free Floated the Barreled action, trigger work done (trigger is crisper but still heavy as hell)... it is easily a 1 MOA gun now with my match load.

 

[Travis S]

For the price, get it. For making hits it will do nicely. Bug holes? Nope. Reliable and tough? Yup. It'll put a smile on your face for sure.

 

[LRRPF52]

Of all the M14 configurations, I like the feel of the 18" Scout Squad the best, but I'll probably never own one for the reasons explained in this thread.

I have also lived with the M14 while deployed overseas, National Match M14's to be precise, and I still prefer the AR10 to it without a second thought.

I do like the M14's sight above bore, which is the lowest of any self-loading battle rifle I can think of.

POI shift is a well-known problem with the M14, and you have to work them totally over to eliminate the inherent design problems to fix POI shift.

 

[FN in MT]

My old "Loaded" model M1A. SEI scope mount, and a VLTOR Modstock. My M1A shot better with the original stock, but the original stock is near impossible to shoot with a scope as the comb is so low. Even with an add on pad to the comb I hated the GI stock WITH a scope. With irons it's fine. So I added the VLTOR stock which has +1" of UP and really took care of the height issue for me.

With 168 and 175 gr GMM in the GI stock shot 1 moa out to 400 yds or so. In the VLTOR stock add 30-50% to group sizes. I've mounted a 10X SWFA, a 6.5-20X Leupold and it now wears a 6-24X Sightron III scope.

I've shot steel from 300 to 1200+ yds. It's always amazed me how well it can do. I agree 110% that an AR based semi auto platform would probably easier to shoot accurately. But shooting these old school M1A's , ESPECIALLY with irons are challenging and plain FUN.

I carried a real M-14, with the FA guts removed, as my Patrol rifle for 15 years when I worked for the MT Hwy Patrol. I only ever retrieved that old girl from the trunk 3 or 4 times thinking it may need to get used. I have to say that big old chunk of old GI steel was sure as hell reassuring to hold!
And I had FULL confidence in her too.

FN in MT

 

[EricCartmann]

Another issue with M14 USGI Synthetic stock is they would take about 30 or more rounds to "settle in". Every time you take your M14/M1A apart to clean it would lose it's zero until about 30 rounds later after it got settled in. Even after settling in, fliers are frequent. That is one nice thing about the Sage Stocks, it allows the entire action to be bolted into the stock (via the special Sage oprod guide), this basically Free Floats the barrel and makes the gun way more consistent.

All the issue the Sage Stock resolves:
- Free Floats the barrel and keeps action tight
- Gives a mounting point for a bipod
- Raises the comb of the stock to allow a decent cheek weld for optics
- Allows a mounting point for the scope, best of all is the scope mount of Sage stocks is not bolted onto the Receiver. M14 Receivers is like a bucking horse, it just wants to twist and buck everything off.

 

[samnev]

I had a Devine, TX NM since the early 70's that I used only for iron sight match shooting until the mid 90's. With 168 grain SMK'S it was a solid 1 moa shooter. I retired it when I moved to AZ in 95. I now have it set up in a M21 configuration and with the Leatherwood scope will shoot under 1 moa. But mostly it just sits in the safe.

 

[Travis S]

The sage is a pricey way to go. Works great but has it's draw backs. As far as removing from stock for cleaning goes... You don't need to pull it from it for regular cleaning. Get it, shoot the piss out of it, enjoy it!

 

[EricCartmann]

The sage is a pricey way to go. Works great but has it's draw backs. As far as removing from stock for cleaning goes... You don't need to pull it from it for regular cleaning. Get it, shoot the piss out of it, enjoy it!

It is pricey, but all stocks are pricey. But I do agree, much cost for very little gain.

The only drawback of a Sage is it is kinda ugly, and it also has a lot of little screws that is easy to lose.