I'm having a .308 built for 1000 yard F T/R matches. What is the importance of the recoil lug (as far as how it actually works) and what is the significance of thinner lugs vs thicker lugs? TIA
Newb question about recoil lugs.....
- Thread starter BigtimeAub
- Start date
Re: Newb question about recoil lugs.....
Its what keeps the action from sheering off the stock bolts and slamming into your face when the weapon fires. Probably a bit dramatic, but it makes my point. Its the primary transfer point of recoil from the action, to the stock.
Thicker lug, in theory leads to less flex, I've never heard of a factory lug breaking but who knows, somebody will probably scour the internet and find one. I think a thicker lug is nice in that it fits the recess better and hopefully gives you more uniform contact on the sides and maybe the front.
When you bed a rifle the contact on the bottom, sides, front, and back of the lug are tight to within a few thousandths of an inch. Thats what I mean by thicker lug, hopefully better contact, and less movement.
More important than thickness is that the lug is flat, and has flat contact with the face of the action, so that you get an even and straight transfer of the energy from the rifle. When an action is trued the gunsmith very often removes a bit of meat from the front of the action, maybe the bolt, to verify all the angles are perpendicular and allow the whole rifle to be assembled good and straight.
Rich
**Edited to add, the lug recess on the AI chassis I have is .250. My lug is .250 thick. Its a tight fit, as opposed to the old factory lug that had more room to wiggle. I want less room to wiggle. You can get down to almost no wiggle room by bedding, but I like chassis systems that shoot well without bedding.
For one, I've seen bedding get softer and deteriorate a bit with exposure to the elements, and for another you essentially marry the stock to the action. Can you remove bedding? Yes. Is it a royal pain in the ass? Yes.
I like actions I can bolt in and go. If you can get the rifle to shoot 1/2 MOA without bedding, on a tactical rifle...do you really need to bed it at that point? With target rifles and competition, your results and needs may vary. I think 1/2 MOA is a nice round accuracy goal. If your rifle will shoot that tight, its more than sufficient. If your rifle doesn't shoot that tight, chances are its you, not the rifle.
My groups went from an inch or more down under a half inch at 100 with a factory Remington 700 after a lot of reading here and practice on the range, and there's guys that can do a lot better with more consistency than I can. Don't over obsess about what small components will do with regard to accuracy.
Its what keeps the action from sheering off the stock bolts and slamming into your face when the weapon fires. Probably a bit dramatic, but it makes my point. Its the primary transfer point of recoil from the action, to the stock.
Thicker lug, in theory leads to less flex, I've never heard of a factory lug breaking but who knows, somebody will probably scour the internet and find one. I think a thicker lug is nice in that it fits the recess better and hopefully gives you more uniform contact on the sides and maybe the front.
When you bed a rifle the contact on the bottom, sides, front, and back of the lug are tight to within a few thousandths of an inch. Thats what I mean by thicker lug, hopefully better contact, and less movement.
More important than thickness is that the lug is flat, and has flat contact with the face of the action, so that you get an even and straight transfer of the energy from the rifle. When an action is trued the gunsmith very often removes a bit of meat from the front of the action, maybe the bolt, to verify all the angles are perpendicular and allow the whole rifle to be assembled good and straight.
Rich
**Edited to add, the lug recess on the AI chassis I have is .250. My lug is .250 thick. Its a tight fit, as opposed to the old factory lug that had more room to wiggle. I want less room to wiggle. You can get down to almost no wiggle room by bedding, but I like chassis systems that shoot well without bedding.
For one, I've seen bedding get softer and deteriorate a bit with exposure to the elements, and for another you essentially marry the stock to the action. Can you remove bedding? Yes. Is it a royal pain in the ass? Yes.
I like actions I can bolt in and go. If you can get the rifle to shoot 1/2 MOA without bedding, on a tactical rifle...do you really need to bed it at that point? With target rifles and competition, your results and needs may vary. I think 1/2 MOA is a nice round accuracy goal. If your rifle will shoot that tight, its more than sufficient. If your rifle doesn't shoot that tight, chances are its you, not the rifle.
My groups went from an inch or more down under a half inch at 100 with a factory Remington 700 after a lot of reading here and practice on the range, and there's guys that can do a lot better with more consistency than I can. Don't over obsess about what small components will do with regard to accuracy.
Re: Newb question about recoil lugs.....
Thanks Lawn! That helps a lot. So basically, if the rifle is bedded correctly, a standard lug will perform just as a thicker lug will? Therefore, no need for an aftermarket lug if nothing is wrong with the stock lug from my REM700 action?
Thanks Lawn! That helps a lot. So basically, if the rifle is bedded correctly, a standard lug will perform just as a thicker lug will? Therefore, no need for an aftermarket lug if nothing is wrong with the stock lug from my REM700 action?
Re: Newb question about recoil lugs.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigtimeAub</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Lawn! That helps a lot. So basically, if the rifle is bedded correctly, a standard lug will perform just as a thicker lug will? Therefore, no need for an aftermarket lug if nothing is wrong with the stock lug from my REM700 action? </div></div>
They will likely perform the same anyway. My point about the thicker lug is that it eats up some of the free space in the recess without bedding. A thicker lug with little wiggle room in the recess probably performs very similar to a thinner lug that's been bedded. I'd give the edge to the bedded lug.
I just figure if you're putting a new barrel on the rifle, or having a smith true the action, seems like a shame to put a mass produced, lower tolerance, 15 dollar part...back on the gun. Lugs are cheap, I'd buy the thickest one that will fit in the recess. Do you need to do that, nah. Is it a nice touch when getting smith work done, up to you.
Rich
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigtimeAub</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Lawn! That helps a lot. So basically, if the rifle is bedded correctly, a standard lug will perform just as a thicker lug will? Therefore, no need for an aftermarket lug if nothing is wrong with the stock lug from my REM700 action? </div></div>
They will likely perform the same anyway. My point about the thicker lug is that it eats up some of the free space in the recess without bedding. A thicker lug with little wiggle room in the recess probably performs very similar to a thinner lug that's been bedded. I'd give the edge to the bedded lug.
I just figure if you're putting a new barrel on the rifle, or having a smith true the action, seems like a shame to put a mass produced, lower tolerance, 15 dollar part...back on the gun. Lugs are cheap, I'd buy the thickest one that will fit in the recess. Do you need to do that, nah. Is it a nice touch when getting smith work done, up to you.
Rich
Re: Newb question about recoil lugs.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigtimeAub</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm having a .308 built for 1000 yard F T/R matches. What is the importance of the recoil lug (as far as how it actually works) and what is the significance of thinner lugs vs thicker lugs? TIA </div></div>
If you're having a rifle "built", then a surface ground thicker lug is very cheap upgrade in the build process.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigtimeAub</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm having a .308 built for 1000 yard F T/R matches. What is the importance of the recoil lug (as far as how it actually works) and what is the significance of thinner lugs vs thicker lugs? TIA </div></div>
If you're having a rifle "built", then a surface ground thicker lug is very cheap upgrade in the build process.
Re: Newb question about recoil lugs.....
Thanks again, Lawn. That helps a lot. I'll definitely be getting a new lug since they are so inexpensive. I really appreciate the explanation.
Thanks again, Lawn. That helps a lot. I'll definitely be getting a new lug since they are so inexpensive. I really appreciate the explanation.
Re: Newb question about recoil lugs.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just be prepared to pull the barrel and reinstall it. </div></div>
X2...a thicker lug will require the barrel to be machined to maintain the head space.Not sure it;s worth it just to install a thicker lug. If you're doing a re-barrel, maybe makes more sense.
There are varying thoughts on recoil lug contact. A lot of guys make sure the only contact the lug has with the stock is at the rear surface. When they bed the action, they put tape on the sides and bottom of the lug, and will also go in and relieve the front of the lug recess so there's no contact. Others want full contact around the lug. I can see the reason for the former and only having contact at the rear of the lug...it insures 100% stress free bedding, but if the bedding job is done correctly, it shouldn't be an issue either way.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just be prepared to pull the barrel and reinstall it. </div></div>
X2...a thicker lug will require the barrel to be machined to maintain the head space.Not sure it;s worth it just to install a thicker lug. If you're doing a re-barrel, maybe makes more sense.
There are varying thoughts on recoil lug contact. A lot of guys make sure the only contact the lug has with the stock is at the rear surface. When they bed the action, they put tape on the sides and bottom of the lug, and will also go in and relieve the front of the lug recess so there's no contact. Others want full contact around the lug. I can see the reason for the former and only having contact at the rear of the lug...it insures 100% stress free bedding, but if the bedding job is done correctly, it shouldn't be an issue either way.
Re: Newb question about recoil lugs.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steelcomp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just be prepared to pull the barrel and reinstall it. </div></div>
X2...a thicker lug will require the barrel to be machined to maintain the head space.Not sure it;s worth it just to install a thicker lug. If you're doing a re-barrel, maybe makes more sense.
There are varying thoughts on recoil lug contact. A lot of guys make sure the only contact the lug has with the stock is at the rear surface. When they bed the action, they put tape on the sides and bottom of the lug, and will also go in and relieve the front of the lug recess so there's no contact. Others want full contact around the lug. I can see the reason for the former and only having contact at the rear of the lug...it insures 100% stress free bedding, but if the bedding job is done correctly, it shouldn't be an issue either way. </div></div>
I'm most likely bedding my 308 this weekend and was wondering if I should do back and sides of the recoil lug or not. Can you elaborate more on the reasons to / not to?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steelcomp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just be prepared to pull the barrel and reinstall it. </div></div>
X2...a thicker lug will require the barrel to be machined to maintain the head space.Not sure it;s worth it just to install a thicker lug. If you're doing a re-barrel, maybe makes more sense.
There are varying thoughts on recoil lug contact. A lot of guys make sure the only contact the lug has with the stock is at the rear surface. When they bed the action, they put tape on the sides and bottom of the lug, and will also go in and relieve the front of the lug recess so there's no contact. Others want full contact around the lug. I can see the reason for the former and only having contact at the rear of the lug...it insures 100% stress free bedding, but if the bedding job is done correctly, it shouldn't be an issue either way. </div></div>
I'm most likely bedding my 308 this weekend and was wondering if I should do back and sides of the recoil lug or not. Can you elaborate more on the reasons to / not to?
Re: Newb question about recoil lugs.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steelcomp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just be prepared to pull the barrel and reinstall it. </div></div>
X2...a thicker lug will require the barrel to be machined to maintain the head space.Not sure it;s worth it just to install a thicker lug. If you're doing a re-barrel, maybe makes more sense.
There are varying thoughts on recoil lug contact. A lot of guys make sure the only contact the lug has with the stock is at the rear surface. When they bed the action, they put tape on the sides and bottom of the lug, and will also go in and relieve the front of the lug recess so there's no contact. Others want full contact around the lug. I can see the reason for the former and only having contact at the rear of the lug...it insures 100% stress free bedding, but if the bedding job is done correctly, it shouldn't be an issue either way. </div></div>
I'm most likely bedding my 308 this weekend and was wondering if I should do back and sides of the recoil lug or not. Can you elaborate more on the reasons to / not to? </div></div>
You don't want to induce a mechanical lock of the action to the stock where its so tight you have to beat the action out of the stock with a hammer. For that reason, most guys will put a piece of tape on the sides, and front, of the lug before bedding so there's a few thousandths of an inch wiggle room to install/remove the action.
If you bed all the way around the lug you run the risk of wedging it in there so tight you can't get it back out.
Rich
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steelcomp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just be prepared to pull the barrel and reinstall it. </div></div>
X2...a thicker lug will require the barrel to be machined to maintain the head space.Not sure it;s worth it just to install a thicker lug. If you're doing a re-barrel, maybe makes more sense.
There are varying thoughts on recoil lug contact. A lot of guys make sure the only contact the lug has with the stock is at the rear surface. When they bed the action, they put tape on the sides and bottom of the lug, and will also go in and relieve the front of the lug recess so there's no contact. Others want full contact around the lug. I can see the reason for the former and only having contact at the rear of the lug...it insures 100% stress free bedding, but if the bedding job is done correctly, it shouldn't be an issue either way. </div></div>
I'm most likely bedding my 308 this weekend and was wondering if I should do back and sides of the recoil lug or not. Can you elaborate more on the reasons to / not to? </div></div>
You don't want to induce a mechanical lock of the action to the stock where its so tight you have to beat the action out of the stock with a hammer. For that reason, most guys will put a piece of tape on the sides, and front, of the lug before bedding so there's a few thousandths of an inch wiggle room to install/remove the action.
If you bed all the way around the lug you run the risk of wedging it in there so tight you can't get it back out.
Rich
Re: Newb question about recoil lugs.....
If you need any local help with your plans you can always shoot me a PM.
If you need any local help with your plans you can always shoot me a PM.
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