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Advanced Marksmanship # of shots between cleaning ?

The_AKD

The_AKD

Private
Minuteman
Jul 29, 2010
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How many shots will you fire between cleaning your barrel ?

Do you clean your barrel at the end of every day regardless ?

How many shots from a clean barrel untill you have a happy fouling?

What do your targets poi look like from a clean barrel - dirty barrel.

Im not asking these Q's as a noob wondering when should i clean my barrel. Im asking from a precision point of view. We know you half to foul. We know accuracy goes down when the barrel is to dirty. Were is your happy area ?

My self - 25 > This is what im working on right now. Figuring out how many shots I can take b4 precision is effected
- Yes. I dont know what changes in the fouling but if I sit the rifle for a week or longer my groups are larger than normal.
- 4
- i dont have any pics sorry.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The_AKD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Were is your happy area ? </div></div>

Right here........
grin.gif
see, I'm happy
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

#1 don't type like you text. Please spell using english.

#2 try the search feature for "Cleaning"

#3 more info is needed for a helpful response

#4 You have a rifle, do the research-shoot it until accuracy falls off, then report back to us how many shots you can shoot before needing to clean.

#5 before 'ripper get here, I'd suggest you fill out your profile.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">#1 don't type like you text. Please spell using english.

#2 try the search feature for "Cleaning"

#3 more info is needed for a helpful response

#4 You have a rifle, do the research-shoot it until accuracy falls off, then report back to us how many shots you can shoot before needing to clean.

#5 before 'ripper get here, I'd suggest you fill out your profile.


</div></div>

GOOD ADVICE!
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The_AKD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How many shots will you fire between cleaning your barrel ?

Do you clean your barrel at the end of every day regardless ?

How many shots from a clean barrel untill you have a happy fouling?

What do your targets poi look like from a clean barrel - dirty barrel.

Im not asking these Q's as a noob wondering when should i clean my barrel. Im asking from a precision point of view. We know you half to foul. We know accuracy goes down when the barrel is to dirty. Were is your happy area ?

My self - 25 > This is what im working on right now. Figuring out how many shots I can take b4 precision is effected
- Yes. I dont know what changes in the fouling but if I sit the rifle for a week or longer my groups are larger than normal.
- 4
- i dont have any pics sorry. </div></div>

I'm going to go out on a limb here but I'd say you may never need to clean a well made barrel, unless there's an obstruction in the bore. Remember, accuracy is about consistency. If a fouled bore is producing a lower ES and SD from a string of shots than a bore that began from a clean state, go with dirty.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

It depends.
No.
It depends.
It depends.
Noob or not, your questions are the same. My groups open up when I don't practice for a while, too. Don't shoot moly and it won't matter.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

For me, cleaning isn't about a given number of shots, or even about accuracy.

It's about bore preservation. It's about corrosion and bore pitting.

If the rifle has been fired and is unlikely the be fired again within another day or three, I'll clean and oil the bore, or in a pinch, at least oil it.

Greg
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

Im using ultra bore coat in a Brux barrel and shoot HBN coated 115 dtacs. Im at 550 rounds and the barrel has not seen a cleaning yet. Any loss of accuracy is me.

Ok actually I lied. I did clean the barrel before I shot it, coated it with UBC, cleaned after 5 rounds and never again, so about 545 without cleaning. I dont have a bore scope but I dont see any copper at the muzzle end. Even if I did I would not worry about it as long as it is going 1/2moa.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

We <span style="font-style: italic">( well, he, I just watched )</span> had to clean Jacob's AW last week, we estimate the rifle had about 1500 to 1900 rounds down the tube between cleanings. Used by 3 separate people during 3 different classes, besides himself, so the exact number is a bit sketchy at this point, but accuracy definitely started to fall off so it was cleaned.

Went back to sub-.5MOA after a bit of Iosso and 5 or so patches.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?


Increase copper and foul / Increase pressure changing OBT is why your accuracy goes down over time. The first few shots I find a pressure change. like first 10. not much beyond that but ive never fired 1500 rds with out cleaning. thx for the info. was wondering.


.308 5R and .338LM


* OBT = optimal barrel time.*
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

I clean every few hundred rounds or so... not so much because accuracy drops off... more so because i feel strange about it.

I dont care about cleaning so much as I do about rust
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

The only thing to really remember is to oil the bore after your done shooting for the day so it doesn't rust. Then hit it with a couple patches when it's time to shoot again. Now your good to go. Just clean it every 1000 rnds or so. Make sure you are using a good 1 piece rod and a bore guide!!
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

One of our HM shooters got a new Krieger barrel for his service rifle match upper. He shot it it matches without cleaning till it did not go bang and that was around 3700 rounds. He cleaned the barrel and BCG assy, and shot it again in matches till it did not go bang, the barrel had another 3500 round since the previous cleaning. This time it happened during standing in the state service rifle championship. He cleaned the BCG assy only to free up the firing pin and finished the match.

Did the no cleaning affect the accuracy - not very much for service rifle application - this guy won the 600 yard event of the state match with decent X count.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

My neighbor is just getting into long range steel plate shooting. He had a 300 Weatherby built and he has 1000's questions about what to do and not do. Concerning the cleaning issue brought up here, that is one thing he's asked a lot about and I'm probably the worst one to ask on that topic. For my particular long range gun it's a 15" Lilja 3 groove on an XP-100. In all this seasons shooting I've only run a brush with some Hopppes #9 twice thru it and not really scrubbed it at all and didn't bring anything out of the barrel. It still shoots the same out to 1000 yards whether I do that or not.

I passed what I do on to my friend but his gun absolutely loses accuracy around 50 rounds or so. I did watch him clean it yesterday when he had problems with the 900 yard target. His next shot went approximately 5 ft high. Took a couple to foul it out some and it settled back down to where it was supposed to be.

Me and other shooting buds have discussed this and most think I'm nuts but the scores don't lie. I'm thinking that my barrel is just "smoother" and don't get a buildup of material in it as fast as another barrel that may be "rougher". This is a very intersting topic and gets a lot of discussion when we all get together.

I have a lil Browning Buckmark 22 semi-auto pistol that has a lil 4X scope that is sighted in at 200 yards. I've shot this gun for about 12 years and countless 1000's of rounds has been shot thru has never had the barrel cleaned. When the action gets stiff I'll clean that but never the barrel and it'll still shoot lil plates at 200 yards right out of the bag. Amazes me but until accuracy falls off I don't clean anything.

I did a bad thing the other day though at Cabelas, bought a nylon brush for my XP-100 260. Felt like everyone was watching me but I've still not used it. It's like a secret all my shooting buds will find out about and call me a traitor and giving in for even thinking about it.
smile.gif


I think every barrel is different, some need a cleaning to maintain accuracy after so many rounds. Others it don't seem to need it. Try different things and keep a log and figure out what you and your barrel feel comfortable with.

Topstrap
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

I have an FN SPR that only gets its bolt wiped down and lubed....love that chrome lining!
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

I am comming up on 2300 rounds down my 308 kreiger without cleaning. It still shoots great. I have yet to find the point that it looses accuracy. I think I will clean it soon, as I have a match in January and I want to have a 5 or 6 hundred rounds down it by then.

I will probably just use wipeout overnight and patch it out...good for another 2K or so.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

This is my first post here. I'm actually very shocked that so many rounds are put through your barrels without cleaning. Maybe it was my time in the Marine Corps but I just can't get my mind around not cleaning a barrel after it's been shot. We used to say, especially with machine guns and the main gun that if you've shot one round you've shot 100 and you'd better get it clean. Clearly this is a new kind of shooting for me and as such am open to everybody's insights. I'm just surprised.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

I have over 3k down the TRG tube..I cleaned it once. Long ago.
Thats a real PITA. Not sure when I will go through that mess again, certianly not until forced.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

Just be open to your own, too. A lot of this no-clean stuff is based on opinion. Everybody has one, and they all smell a tad different, too. If I was a bloodhound, maybe I'd invest more caring...
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

I own rifles that apart from the initial cleaning/inspection they got when brand new
have never had a barrel cleaned ,action yes barrel no
shoot it till accuracy drops off .... then clean the barrel
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The_AKD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
- Yes. I dont know what changes in the fouling but if I sit the rifle for a week or longer my groups are larger than normal.
</div></div>

I have found this to be true with my rifles. My solution is to dry brush and dry patch before putting the rifle away. I have tested this by firing cold bore groups over several weeks and the groups fired w/ dry brushing are definitely smaller by around 1 moa. I have a 450 yard range in my back yard and can fire my cold bore shot whenever I have the time and I usually have a target set up at 450 yards that I put a cold bore shot into whenever conditions are good until I get a 10 shot group. I have done this for over a year now and have come to the conclusion that dry brushing improves my cold bore groups consistently.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

Are you using a nylon brush to do this "dry brushing" and obviously a clean dry patch?

One pass down and remove at muzzle or drag back thru bore?
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sniper1*</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you using a nylon brush to do this "dry brushing" and obviously a clean dry patch?

One pass down and remove at muzzle or drag back thru bore?

</div></div>

I'm using a bronze brush and passing it back and forth several times. Usually powder dust will eject from the muzzle so I brush until it stops, pass a dry patch through the bore, clean the chamber with a lightly oiled patch. It wouldn't hurt to remove the brush at the muzzle, might be easier on the crown, the brush would last longer and it would keep the dust from getting in the chamber.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

I have read this topic to death before purchasing my rifle, and also the break in process. I think it's yours, do what you want to it. Personally I just run a bore snake down the barrel before firing to make sure there is nothing stuck in there that could cause an accident. To me I'm more concerned about safety then I am about the barrel, I just don't want to see anyone get hurt by my rifle, I'm not like a lot of other snipers on these forums, I blame my bad shooting on myself, not my gun or how clean it is
wink.gif
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

Ouch EZguy! Walk in with 17 posts and start slammin' on guys. I just re-read this thread and didn't see anyone blaming poor shooting on anything. The topic discussed is about cleaning and when to clean. You come in and make a blanket statement about "snipers" on "these forums" blaming their equipment. Well you obviously haven't been around THIS forum long enough.

Sit back, shut up, and learn something!
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

Sniper1 welcome to Sarcasm 101 and click here to purchase a sense of humor =)...

It was a joke fella, lighten up.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just be open to your own, too. A lot of this no-clean stuff is based on opinion. Everybody has one, and they all smell a tad different, too. If I was a bloodhound, maybe I'd invest more caring... </div></div>

with all due respect greg, i think we old fogeys get this attitude about cleaning bores as a direct result of a cold war upbringing where most armed conflicts were ocurring in wet and humid jungles where we were preserving our bores against rust and mud. for most precision shooters today these weapons are not getting that level of abuse and overcleaning due to old doctrine is worse for the barrel than the good it supposed to be doing. this is a hot topic around here and i feel improved from having read on this over the time ive been on here. just my opinion and we know how that goes.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

Sniper1 I fully understand, I have bad days too. I put a wink face after my joke, I thought it was understood as a joke. But it's in the past now, lets move on and be friends! I hope the rest of your week got better
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

Thanks, sounds good! It's getting there! Days off, it's cooled off here, time to hunt some deer!
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

My only concern is about pitting. Thinking about those fouling compounds, moisture, and atmospheric oxygen tucked away in the bore; and the concept that bimetallic corrosion is not susceptible to persuasion.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

Just a thought but, why does one do a round robin with load development if the cleanliness of the barrel should not be a factor? Is it just for heat of the barrel?
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

Isn't the point of cleaning to reduce irregularities on the barrel's inner surface? (As well as chemical stabilization in chrome-moly steel, etc).

A buildup of copper, carbon, lead or other crap in the barrel which would change the effective diameter, concentricity, or friction inside some section of the barrel, would also change the behavior of it, no?. The whole point of a match-grade barrel is to get a very straight, smooth, and consistently concentric inner diameter. If that's buggered up with junk baked onto the inside, what's the difference between a lousy barrel and a dirty one?
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BallCoeff.606</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't the point of cleaning to reduce irregularities on the barrel's inner surface? (As well as chemical stabilization in chrome-moly steel, etc).

A buildup of copper, carbon, lead or other crap in the barrel which would change the effective diameter, concentricity, or friction inside some section of the barrel, would also change the behavior of it, no?. The whole point of a match-grade barrel is to get a very straight, smooth, and consistently concentric inner diameter. If that's buggered up with junk baked onto the inside, what's the difference between a lousy barrel and a dirty one? </div></div>

No because a barrel doesn't just keep on collecting copper and powder residue the more you fire. Copper will not keep building up in the groves the more you shoot. There comes a point where the barrel is completely saturated with copper and powder that is forced out the end of the barrel instead of building up. I guess what I am trying to say is that barrel fouling is finite.

Cleaning the bolt and bolt carrier in an AR15 is a different story. Not cleaning the bolt/bolt carrier group can greatly affect accuracy. Just ask the guy whose rifle seized while shooting a rapid fire string.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The_AKD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How many shots will you fire between cleaning your barrel ?

Do you clean your barrel at the end of every day regardless ?

How many shots from a clean barrel untill you have a happy fouling?

What do your targets poi look like from a clean barrel - dirty barrel. </div></div>

#1 12 months worth. I clean it for Christmas no matter what. Last year I shot 1200 rounds through it. Previously I was just wearing away the barrel

#2 Yes - the outside with an oily cloth

#3 4

#4 doesn't matter, I never make a meaningful shot with a clean barrel
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

How many of you guys that shoot all year without cleaning shoot "for score" type matches like F class or Palma where X counts rule? How many shoot steel matches where the accuracy is measured in "minute of steel"?
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

I think cleaning if one of the most controversial subjects in shooting. Along with breaking in a barrel. I read an article by McMillan (stocks and rifle) and he claims you do not have to break in a barrel. So I did not break it in and have had no accuracy questions.

Regarding cleaning and accuracy, that I believe depends on the gun. I do not brush my barrel. I use foam bore cleaner and just patch it out. I also do not over clean the barrel. I have read a trend in bench rest shooters who are cleaning less - often after 80 rounds or more. There are others that run patches after a few shots. And they will all argue which is the best method. And there is really not much scientific proof as to how to really clean a gun for accuracy.

One thing for certain is that more barrel wear is often the result of over and improper cleaning than it is from shooting. Over cleaning will often give you some temporary accuracy, but eventually it wears down the rifling faster than non aggressive cleaning.

If I shoot on a weekend, both Saturday and Sunday. After shooting on Saturday morning, I will NOT usually clean the barrel on Saturday night. I will run a few dry patches through the barrel to get some of the residue out. Then I shoot Sunday morning. On Sunday night I will clean the gun and put some oil through it and put it away.

Keep your gun lubricated between shooting sessions.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

I have an M24 that I shoot here at school that hasn't been cleaned in over a year. Since M118LR is free I don't skimp on shooting it. Still shoots 1/2 to 3/4 MOA when I can. I generally don't clean my guns. I hate cleaning guns, probably because for so many years I was forced to white glove inspections by some jack ass armorer who would rather have a gun ruined than dirty. When my guns get really dirty on the outside I just paint them. OK, if it feels sluggish I'll pull the bolt, wipe it down, oil it and keep shooting. When the time comes to actually clean the bore I use M Pro 7. It seems to work well.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

I do not shoot for score, for X's, palma or f-class. I shoot for "minute of vitals", but I do enjoy shooting consistently small groups.

My regimine has been reduced to a couple wet patches with #9, 4 or 5 passes through with a copper brush, dry patches till dry. If I am storing more than a few days, I run a patch of CLP through to protect against moisture (really need a dehumidifier for the safe. Lakeview is a moist area (snow, of course!).

If I am dragging the rifle out after a few days storage with CLP, I take my rod to the range or area I am shooting at and run a dry patch or two before I shoot. I do not have a change in cold bore to 10 shot group at 300 yards. Two pasters (3") at 300 yards, cold bore on one, 10 round group on the other. The cold bore is always in the middle of the group if I lay them over the top of each other.

I was concerned that I was cleaning wrong or not good enough. I had an opportunity to talk to Clint Smith at Thunder Ranch at a class we both attended. He described my method of cleaning to the T as he described what he did for cleaning routine. His comment was, "At my age, I would rather be shooting than cleaning." I figure if he is good enough to teach people to shoot to 1200 yards in a few days, then he HAS to know something about weapons. You know, since that is his livelyhood!

Just my two-bits. YMMV.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

I clean mildly after every outing, not aggressively though. I'm more worried about corrosion due to the wet sticky air in FL. If I'm feeling lazy which is fairly often I'll just run an oiled patch through it for preservation sake. I'm a little more regimented about cleaning my Barrett than the others since .338 LM can be rough on barrels and I want to extend its life.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

The whole cleaning thing comes down to each individuals preferences. To clean or not to clean? To brush or not to brush? To unscrew the brush and not drag it back across the crown? Bronze, Nylon, or nothing? These are all questions that will be debated forever. Do you wear briefs or boxers? See what I mean?

Myself I clean after each range session regardless if I fired ten rounds or eighty. In a good custom barrel I'm not as concerned about copper as I am about carbon buildup. If left go carbon is a bitch to get out. You then need to go to agressive measures using abrasives which I am loath to do in a custom barrel, so I clean after every range session. As to the other things I mentioned above I'll let those dogs lie for another time.

Danny
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

+ 1 on the carbon. I've had a lot more problems with carbon buildup than copper. I think moisture changes the properties of the fouling over time and causes excessive carbon build up when a bullet is fired over it. I'm experimenting with dry brush and patch before putting the firearm away which keeps the bore conditioned but removes the excess fouling which I believe negatively interacts with humidity. So far I have had measureable postitive results.
 
Re: # of shots between cleaning ?

Carbon can be as abrasive as diamond. It's not a soft fluffy material by any stretch.
 
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