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Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

vwhugger

vwhugger

The Kindly Curmudgeon
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 17, 2003
332
95
80
NW WI
Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at Southridge Mall
By Jay Sorgi

CREATED Nov. 3, 2011

GREENDALE - Greendale Police say an off-duty Milwaukee Police officer accidentally fired his gun while the officer was shopping at Southridge Mall.

Greendale Police Chief Robert Malasuk told us that the Milwaukee Police officer was in front of the pretzel shop at Southridge at 4:00 p.m. Wednesday when the officer reached in a pocket to get money for a purchase.

The chief said that's when the gun accidentally went off.

No one was hurt, and the chief explained the bullet disintegrated when it hit the marble floor, so nothing was damaged.

Malasuk said the off-duty officer's gun never fell to the floor.

According to the Greendale chief, the officer was turned over to MPD to review proper safety protocol.

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/133146768.html

<span style="font-weight: bold">And the rest of the story...</span>
For Immediate Release:

With Wisconsin's new concealed carry law going into effect there has been a proliferation of speculation about the consequences of having law-abiding citizens carrying concealed weapons.

Ironically, one day after Act 35 went into effect, a Milwaukee police officer negligently discharges his weapon in Southridge mall on Wednesday.

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-20111103-cop-fires-gun-southridge,0,5018946.story



As an organization that promotes safe carry in the manner of a law-abiding citizens choosing, we find it concerning that both the Greenfield Police Chief, and Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn refer to the incident as a "freak accident" and an "complete accident" respectively.

Carry of a gun tucked in the waistband *without* a holster aka "Plaxico Burress" style is no accident, and is not a safe way to carry a handgun. Its unfortunate that with all the purported training that we often hear that police officers obtain with regard to firearms that both Police Chiefs do not take the opportunity to use this as a teachable moment.

Handguns should be carried in holsters. Carry in a holster prevents negligent discharge. The gun-accessory marketplace has thousands of options for holsters for open carry, concealed carry, inside the waistband, outside the waistband, and dozens of other carry options. When a firearm is carried in the waistband, and subsequently discharged unintentionally that is not an accident, but rather negligence.

Negligent discharge of a firearms is a violation of the law. It is unfortunate that in this case, a police officer that should be held to a HIGHER standard is unfortunately given a "free pass" when he could have very easily injured or killed someone with his negligent (not accidental) behavior. Thousands of our members have researched and obtained holsters that serve their style of carry over the last several years. We are confident that as large numbers of Wisconsin residents apply for and begin to exercise their human and constitutional right to self-defense under Wisconsin's new concealed carry law they will not follow the example set by this Milwaukee Police Officer and instead visit their local gun store to research the variety of holsters available for conceal or open carry which will prevent negligent discharges like this Milwaukee Police officer's from happening.

We also hope that law enforcement would not give a "free pass" to a violation of law and cite this officer for negligent discharge of a firearm as an example to all that failure to take personal responsibility and carry in a safe manner will have legal consequences.

Carry On,

Nik Clark
Chairman/President - Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

<span style="font-weight: bold">And a correction to this story...</span>
Greetings in freedom.

In a press release earlier today I quoted Milwaukee Police Chief and Greenfield Police Chief regarding their characterization of a negiligent discharge as an "accident".

It was the Village of GreenDALE Police Chief who called the situation a "freak accident" NOT the GreenFIELD police chief. The municipalities border each other but they have 2 separate police departments.

Carry On!

Nik Clark
Chairman/President - Wisconsin Carry, Inc.










 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

I agree that the police would have probably charged a regular law abiding citizen who has a concealed carry permit if this where to happen to a citizen.

Thing is, most CCW holders I know would never carry without a holster. I know plenty of LE, and most of them would also not carry without a holster.

I usual carry IWB with a IWB holster. The few times I have pocket carried, it was with a Pocket holster.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

We've had at least one ND at every gun show for the past year here in Indianapolis and none of those responsible went to jail.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vwhugger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at Southridge Mall
By Jay Sorgi

CREATED Nov. 3, 2011

GREENDALE - Greendale Police say an off-duty Milwaukee Police officer accidentally fired his gun while the officer was shopping at Southridge Mall.

Greendale Police Chief Robert Malasuk told us that the Milwaukee Police officer was in front of the pretzel shop at Southridge at 4:00 p.m. Wednesday when the officer reached in a pocket to get money for a purchase.

The chief said that's when the gun accidentally went off.

No one was hurt, and the chief explained the bullet disintegrated when it hit the marble floor, so nothing was damaged.

Malasuk said the off-duty officer's gun never fell to the floor.

According to the Greendale chief, the officer was turned over to MPD to review proper safety protocol.

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/133146768.html

<span style="font-weight: bold">And the rest of the story...</span>
For Immediate Release:

With Wisconsin's new concealed carry law going into effect there has been a proliferation of speculation about the consequences of having law-abiding citizens carrying concealed weapons.

Ironically, one day after Act 35 went into effect, a Milwaukee police officer negligently discharges his weapon in Southridge mall on Wednesday.

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-20111103-cop-fires-gun-southridge,0,5018946.story



As an organization that promotes safe carry in the manner of a law-abiding citizens choosing, we find it concerning that both the Greenfield Police Chief, and Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn refer to the incident as a "freak accident" and an "complete accident" respectively.

Carry of a gun tucked in the waistband *without* a holster aka "Plaxico Burress" style is no accident, and is not a safe way to carry a handgun. Its unfortunate that with all the purported training that we often hear that police officers obtain with regard to firearms that both Police Chiefs do not take the opportunity to use this as a teachable moment.

Handguns should be carried in holsters. Carry in a holster prevents negligent discharge. The gun-accessory marketplace has thousands of options for holsters for open carry, concealed carry, inside the waistband, outside the waistband, and dozens of other carry options. When a firearm is carried in the waistband, and subsequently discharged unintentionally that is not an accident, but rather negligence.

Negligent discharge of a firearms is a violation of the law. <span style="font-size: 14pt"> <span style="color: #FF0000">It is unfortunate that in this case, a police officer that should be held to a HIGHER standard is unfortunately given a "free pass" when he could have very easily injured or killed someone with his negligent (not accidental) behavior. </span> </span> Thousands of our members have researched and obtained holsters that serve their style of carry over the last several years. We are confident that as large numbers of Wisconsin residents apply for and begin to exercise their human and constitutional right to self-defense under Wisconsin's new concealed carry law they will not follow the example set by this Milwaukee Police Officer and instead visit their local gun store to research the variety of holsters available for conceal or open carry which will prevent negligent discharges like this Milwaukee Police officer's from happening.

We also hope that law enforcement would not give a "free pass" to a violation of law and cite this officer for negligent discharge of a firearm as an example to all that failure to take personal responsibility and carry in a safe manner will have legal consequences.

Carry On,

Nik Clark
Chairman/President - Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

<span style="font-weight: bold">And a correction to this story...</span>
Greetings in freedom.

In a press release earlier today I quoted Milwaukee Police Chief and Greenfield Police Chief regarding their characterization of a negiligent discharge as an "accident".

It was the Village of GreenDALE Police Chief who called the situation a "freak accident" NOT the GreenFIELD police chief. The municipalities border each other but they have 2 separate police departments.

Carry On!

Nik Clark
Chairman/President - Wisconsin Carry, Inc.










</div></div>

Havent we had this discussion just recently?

But what can you expect from wisconson, land of Tree<span style="text-decoration: line-through">VW </span>huggers.
whistle.gif
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We've had at least one ND at every gun show for the past year here in Indianapolis and none of those responsible went to jail. </div></div>

Well a gun show is a gun friendly environment. I imagine at a mall there would be some idiot wanting action to be taken for endangering the public. I think the round going off and the embarrassment is punishment enough if it didn't hurt anyone, especially being a LE Officer. I can just imagine the crap this guy is going to have to take for a while. LOL
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silver_Bullet_00</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree that the police would have probably charged a regular law abiding citizen who has a concealed carry permit if this where to happen to a citizen.

Thing is, most CCW holders I know would never carry without a holster. I know plenty of LE, and most of them would also not carry without a holster.

I usual carry IWB with a IWB holster. The few times I have pocket carried, it was with a Pocket holster. </div></div>

What would they be charged with??

Carry without a holster is a little beyond me. It is even further beyond me how you accidently discharge your firearm in your pocket while attempting to get money out. Even when I drop my revolver in my pocket it rides in a holster and NOTHING else is in that pocket. If there is a firearm in that pocket there should be nothing else in there to get in the way should you need it and then you also won't be reaching in there fingering you firearm trying to get change out.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bnoland</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silver_Bullet_00</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree that the police would have probably charged a regular law abiding citizen who has a concealed carry permit if this where to happen to a citizen.

Thing is, most CCW holders I know would never carry without a holster. I know plenty of LE, and most of them would also not carry without a holster.

I usual carry IWB with a IWB holster. The few times I have pocket carried, it was with a Pocket holster. </div></div>

What would they be charged with??

</div></div>

Something in the line of (Public Endangerment) depending on the state would be the charge. I'm glad there where no charges, hopefully he learned a lesson about how to carry.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

Can't help it but the thought did crossmy mind, simply due to timing of the incident. Maybe this was intentional. Say someone really didn't want the bill to pass, and when it did they figured "lets have an incident showing what will happen" Then the sate steps in and puts a maratorium on the permits going into effect.

I may be way off here, but the thought did cross my mind.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rhys</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can't help it but the thought did crossmy mind, simply due to timing of the incident. Maybe this was intentional. Say someone really didn't want the bill to pass, and when it did they figured "lets have an incident showing what will happen" Then the sate steps in and puts a maratorium on the permits going into effect.

I may be way off here, but the thought did cross my mind. </div></div>

Yes, you're not the only one that thought about this. It's been circulating in other circles too. You just never know the lengths to which some people will go.

Turns out it was police supervisor...

http://www.wisn.com/news/29689596/detail.html
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

I'm just happy no one was hurt or injured, LE have accidental discharges far more often than you think, google the subject. I read an article where one LEO "tased" himself on a traffic stop. Thankfully, it was a Taser, and not a Glock! I'm sure the older, and wiser LEO's in this guys dept. will have a review regarding CC. Maybe some training along with approved weapons will be in order, just because you are trained to carry a service sidearm, does not mean you have received training with CC, type of weapons etc., that type of training and policy could have very easily kept this guy from having a accidental discharge, may keep it from hapening again in the future-and who knows next time a kid in the mall could die.
 
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall


I guess we could go back and forth all night posting videos and articles but in the end what's it going to solve? You're still going to nit pick every point of view that isn't your own all the while bringing nothing to the table.

Not sure what a cop ever did to you to merit your disdain and contempt bro but get over it. There is more to life than being a bitter old man sitting behind a computer.

 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

Somehow I dont see this thread lasting much longer. But I do have one question in regards to the statement made by Wisconsin Carry, Inc. They stated that the officer was "unfortuneately given a free pass". Is there some info not printed in the articles? Last I saw, he was currently under investigation. A ND is a lot worse for a cop than it is for a civillian. The civillian may get cited/arrested, pay fines or whatever the law of the state says. The officer can/should not only have to get that but deal with anything from time on the beach to termination. If terminated it is unlikely he will ever work for another agency again. Being this took place in an area populated by the general public and the media attention, they may just have to make an example out of him, just so the department can maintain a fair and unbiased image.


On that last note, perhaps that would be a good thing. I hate to see officers lose their jobs, but if they do, its usually for good reason. If he gets to keep his job, good for him, this is a very hard life lesson, one I hope he never repeats. In the few short years I have been in LE I have seen way too much firearm safety violations occur among other officers. They should be held to a higher standard and, while most are, should be held no less accountable for their neglect than anyone else.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

The reason he was not charged was because most crimes against people/public include knowingly, with the intent. It would fall under reckless discharge of a firearm which (at least in the state I live in) has to prove he intended to discharge the weopon in a unsafe manner.

I am by no means standing up for the officer. He may not face criminal charges but I'm sure he will face a review board and a nasty suspension including retraining.

This returns to simple, day one firearm training. 1 use a holster to protect trigger. 2 a weopon carried in a pocket should contain the weapon and nothing else. Glad to see no one was hurt but this was easy to prevent and the officer gets to see his own face on the news which would be more of a punishment to me than anything else.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I guess we could go back and forth all night posting videos and articles but in the end what's it going to solve? You're still going to nit pick every point of view that isn't your own all the while bringing nothing to the table.

Not sure what a cop ever did to you to merit your disdain and contempt bro but get over it. There is more to life than being a bitter old man sitting behind a computer.

</div></div>

I do not dislike Police officers, I have freinds and family that are in Law Enforcement, my family history goes pretty far back in having people in L.E., I just don't think they are above the law and they should be treated the same as everyone else.

Unfortunately it is the bad people in L.E. that make it hard on everyone else.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

Yeah I guess, kinda like crooked, thieving, scumbag contractors give everyone else in the construction industry a bad name.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah I guess, kinda like crooked, thieving, scumbag contractors give everyone else in the construction industry a bad name. </div></div>

Funny you would bring that up as in most cases where you hear about a problem with a contractor ripping off someone the contractor is not licensed and more often than not the people hired the unlicensed contractor knowing he didn't have a license, but when things go bad they cry about being ripped off.

I have heard of very few cases of a licensed contractor ripping anyone off, but I know of several cases including me where a client has ripped off a contractor.

So unlicensed people who are not even contractors do give us a bad name.

So would it be fair to lump people impersonating Law Enforcement Officers and their actions in with legitamete Law Enforcement Officers?
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

I don't see what is funny about it. Most of the cases I've heard or dealt with involve licensed guys running scams. Mostly on the elderly or handicapped who they think won't know enough to report them.

Sadly in many cases these guys operate for years and amass a litany of victims before they're caught.

Another scam they like to run involves insurance claims. Making estimates/markups/claims for unnecessary work and then pocketing the money.

Shouldn't the licensed guys be held to a higher standard? Should we treat them any differently than anyone else accused of the same crimes?
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't see what is funny about it. Most of the cases I've heard or dealt with involve licensed guys running scams. Mostly on the elderly or handicapped who they think won't know enough to report them.

Sadly in many cases these guys operate for years and amass a litany of victims before they're caught.

Another scam they like to run involves insurance claims. Making estimates/markups/claims for unnecessary work and then pocketing the money.

Shouldn't the licensed guys be held to a higher standard? Should we treat them any differently than anyone else accused of the same crimes? </div></div>

I wasn't saying it was funny, I just thought it was funny because I knew you would bring something like that up, you are too easy to figure out.

Yes the Licensed contractor is held to a higher standard, I have heard Police say they are held to a higher standard but that doesn't seem to be the case.

If we commit fraud or crimes we can lose our contractors license, and since we are licensed by the DBPR, they can tak disciplinary action against us if we don't follow the law, unlicensed contractors are not governed by anyone so the DBPR really an't do much other than to refer unlicensed contractors to the local police, and the police need to catch them in action.

I can tell by looking at a guys trcuk or van if he is licensed or not, by law I have to have my license numbers on my vehicles.

In the cases where you say they are licensed contractors ripping people off, did you verify they were licensed or just assume they were because the news said they were or implied they were licensed?

When I hear news stories or read in the paper about an issue with a contracor, I will look his name up in the Florida database to see if the guy is a licensed contractor, most of the time the guy is unlicensed.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

There is a local story about a former police officer and Army Veteran Humberto Delgado, that killed a Tampa Police Corporal, Mike Roberts. That was trying to help him, should the cop killer be lumped in with police officers?

I notice the news will often lead a story with 'former police officer' etc., sometimes the 'former police officer' hasn't been a police officer for 20 years, yet the news tries to sensationalize the story.

I guess they should be considered a police officer then.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't see what is funny about it. Most of the cases I've heard or dealt with involve licensed guys running scams. Mostly on the elderly or handicapped who they think won't know enough to report them.

Sadly in many cases these guys operate for years and amass a litany of victims before they're caught.

Another scam they like to run involves insurance claims. Making estimates/markups/claims for unnecessary work and then pocketing the money.

Shouldn't the licensed guys be held to a higher standard? Should we treat them any differently than anyone else accused of the same crimes? </div></div>

In New york a contractor needs a HIC, they pretty much give them away, 30 questions, you need to get only 21 of them right.

In florida my Certified Building Contractors exam took 2 days, and was 19.5 hours long, and I had to prove I had the required work history, as well as the competency to be a contractor.

In Florida we don't just hand out contractors licenses like most states do.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bnoland</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silver_Bullet_00</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree that the police would have probably charged a regular law abiding citizen who has a concealed carry permit if this where to happen to a citizen.

Thing is, most CCW holders I know would never carry without a holster. I know plenty of LE, and most of them would also not carry without a holster.

I usual carry IWB with a IWB holster. The few times I have pocket carried, it was with a Pocket holster. </div></div>

What would they be charged with??

Carry without a holster is a little beyond me. It is even further beyond me how you accidently discharge your firearm in your pocket while attempting to get money out. Even when I drop my revolver in my pocket it rides in a holster and NOTHING else is in that pocket. If there is a firearm in that pocket there should be nothing else in there to get in the way should you need it and then you also won't be reaching in there fingering you firearm trying to get change out. </div></div>

Here is a similar case, but this guy wasn't a police officer, so he did not get a freepass.

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20110115/ARTICLES/110119585
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seems like I struck a nerve. </div></div>

Didn't strike a nerve, I can't stand unlicensed contractors and the harm they do to people in the community, there have been several cases where unlicensed contractors have ripped off elderly people and caused them to lose their house because they were conned into signing a home loan to finance the project.

There is a local guy that has been doing this for the past 20 years yet he is still in business, the police know about him but he is still in business,BTW they are from New York.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

I think in the big picture what the article is showing, is that the LE was human.

Now a lot of LOCAL LE have this thing about how regular car drivers are not qualified like LE to drive cars, not qualified like LE to carry etc (We have CWP's wit hout a class).

We've had two deputies wipe out their cars, we had one officer meaning to taze a suspect but she pulled her glock and shot him instead (Good on her but she hit him in the leg)...

LE are human. If the SH*T hits the fan I hope everyone remembers this, they are just regular joe's with a bit more training than regular joe's....not that I haven't trained WITH Them from time to time to stay fresh..

He had an AD, He's human.

I feel bad for him because I know HE feels bad.

Now for the joe citizens I can understand their uproar - stating they are not qualified to carry and yet a cop that is supposed to be qualified has an AD...
From their perspective this law is BS...and I agree.

 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And why do Doctors always get the hot babes?

The unfairness pisses me off. I hate them.

Until I need them. </div></div>

I think you mean Nascar Drivers and Hockey players.

I have seen some Dr's with some pretty ugly wives, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think in the big picture what the article is showing, is that the LE was human.

Now a lot of LOCAL LE have this thing about how regular car drivers are not qualified like LE to drive cars, not qualified like LE to carry etc (We have CWP's wit hout a class).

We've had two deputies wipe out their cars, we had one officer meaning to taze a suspect but she pulled her glock and shot him instead (Good on her but she hit him in the leg)...

LE are human. If the SH*T hits the fan I hope everyone remembers this, they are just regular joe's with a bit more training than regular joe's....not that I haven't trained WITH Them from time to time to stay fresh..

He had an AD, He's human.

I feel bad for him because I know HE feels bad.

Next!... </div></div>

Yes they are human and make mistakes just like everyone else, but when they commit crimes or make mistakes like the one in this case did, often they get special treatment because they are a police officer.

There was a case wher an FBI agent pulled over an eagle scout, shot him in the face by accident with an M4, he didn't get in trouble, and even though the FBI agent said he shot the kid on accident, it was ruled a justifiable shooting.

Yet ordinary citizens have shot people by accident and were charged with a crime.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bgbill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And why do Doctors always get the hot babes?

The unfairness pisses me off. I hate them.

Until I need them. </div></div>

I think you mean Nascar Drivers and Hockey players.

I have seen some Dr's with some pretty ugly wives, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
</div></div>

No I meant Doctors...

Who <span style="text-decoration: underline">needs</span> Nascar drivers or Hockey players?

Get the subtlety?

The point of my perspective is that there is, once again, a definite, anti cop bias masquerading as a demand for fair play.

Cops are held to higher standards on many levels, especially regarding their own observations of the innumerable laws that govern us all.

Time after time, these threads devolve into the crap trajectory that this one predictably fell into. I am comforted in my belief that the Speeding Miami Cop has gotten a huge ration of shit for his adventure and the Wisconsin officer in this thread is getting the same.

I do not need to see them humiliated, incarcerated, brow beaten, singularly prosecuted, or otherwise persecuted just because we may have experienced an asshole cop in our own history.

We're talking people here. The pay largely sucks, the risks are high, and the scrutiny of know nothing bureaucrats, supervisors, hecklers, scumbag lawyers and journalists is unending.

So I was being Ironic.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And why do Doctors always get the hot babes?

The unfairness pisses me off. I hate them.

Until I need them. </div></div>

We're saving Kim Kardashian just for you.
whistle.gif
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bgbill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And why do Doctors always get the hot babes?

The unfairness pisses me off. I hate them.

Until I need them. </div></div>

I think you mean Nascar Drivers and Hockey players.

I have seen some Dr's with some pretty ugly wives, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
</div></div>

No I meant Doctors...

Who <span style="text-decoration: underline">needs</span> Nascar drivers or Hockey players?

Get the subtlety?

The point of my perspective is that there is, once again, a definite, anti cop bias masquerading as a demand for fair play.

Cops are held to higher standards on many levels, especially regarding their own observations of the innumerable laws that govern us all.

Time after time, these threads devolve into the crap trajectory that this one predictably fell into. I am comforted in my belief that the Speeding Miami Cop has gotten a huge ration of shit for his adventure and the Wisconsin officer in this thread is getting the same.

I do not need to see them humiliated, incarcerated, brow beaten, singularly prosecuted, or otherwise persecuted just because we may have experienced an asshole cop in our own history.

We're talking people here. The pay largely sucks, the risks are high, and the scrutiny of know nothing bureaucrats, supervisors, hecklers, scumbag lawyers and journalists is unending.

So I was being Ironic. </div></div>

Expecting a police officer to be treated like everyone else when they braek the law or screw up is not anti cop bias.

I know some police officers that make $60-$70,000 a year, not bad for a 2 year degree and their job is less dangerous than my job so the low pay high risk is not true.

Staing the facts and expecting equal treatment for everyone is not anti cop or anti anything, treat everyone the same and you don't run into problems.
 
Re: Why Bgbill hates cops

"To Protect and Serve"

Looks like this is the "serve" part of the job.
 
Re: Slapchop thinks cops are above the law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"To Protect and Serve"

Looks like this is the "serve" part of the job. </div></div>

I guess but do you realize how easy many cops wives are to bang?

I would never admit to mowing another man's lawn, especially a cop's but I am just pointing out an observation.

People in L.E. has a very high divorce rate for a reason.

 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bgbill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bgbill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And why do Doctors always get the hot babes?

The unfairness pisses me off. I hate them.

Until I need them. </div></div>

I think you mean Nascar Drivers and Hockey players.

I have seen some Dr's with some pretty ugly wives, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
</div></div>

No I meant Doctors...

Who <span style="text-decoration: underline">needs</span> Nascar drivers or Hockey players?

Get the subtlety?

The point of my perspective is that there is, once again, a definite, anti cop bias masquerading as a demand for fair play.

Cops are held to higher standards on many levels, especially regarding their own observations of the innumerable laws that govern us all.

Time after time, these threads devolve into the crap trajectory that this one predictably fell into. I am comforted in my belief that the Speeding Miami Cop has gotten a huge ration of shit for his adventure and the Wisconsin officer in this thread is getting the same.

I do not need to see them humiliated, incarcerated, brow beaten, singularly prosecuted, or otherwise persecuted just because we may have experienced an asshole cop in our own history.

We're talking people here. The pay largely sucks, the risks are high, and the scrutiny of know nothing bureaucrats, supervisors, hecklers, scumbag lawyers and journalists is unending.

So I was being Ironic. </div></div>

Expecting a police officer to be treated like everyone else when they braek the law or screw up is not anti cop bias.

I know some police officers that make $60-$70,000 a year, not bad for a 2 year degree and their job is less dangerous than my job so the low pay high risk is not true.

Staing the facts and expecting equal treatment for everyone is not anti cop or anti anything, <span style="color: #990000">treat everyone the same and you don't run into problems.</span></div></div>

The impression I get from your frequent posts along this line of reasoning is that treating them the same should equate to that treatment meted out by the proportion of officers and prosecutors who in fact show no discretion, proportion or mercy for otherwise law abiding citizens.

I'd prefer to see less of that. And at no time have I seen the cops here say they walk on water and deserve a pass.

As to the danger of being in the trades, I'm 32 years a carpenter, the last 12 pretty exclusively in the door business. In all that time, I never had to conduct a high speed chase, duck shots (At work! Long stories...), fire shots, only been in a couple fistfights...And interact extensively with the vile-est criminal scum, liars (Though I have had to sign paid-when-paid contracts with GCs so maybe I have!
laugh.gif
), malfeasers and "important" people threatening my livelihood because I caught little Johnny stealing my door closers...

Sure there are myriad injuries, exposures and other physical risks, including some pretty ugly deaths (And no funerals with a company of kilt wearing pipers mind you!) in the trades but come on.

Don't get me started on the pension shit though...Must be nice...

 
Re: Slapchop thinks cops are above the law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bgbill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
People in L.E. has a very high divorce rate for a reason.

</div></div>

Actually, the most recent statistics show that police officers are on par with, or slightly below the nation average for divorce. The LEO suicide rate is still up there but the divorce rates have come down.

The only thing I really notice from the original post is that the Chairman/President of Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is pitching a bitch about the police officer not being charged with a crime. I suspect he would have been bitching had a non LEO had a ND and <span style="font-style: italic">been</span> charged. Now everyone can get charged since he's demanded it and displayed his outrage that unintentional actions aren't always criminal in nature.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The impression I get from your frequent posts along this line of reasoning is that treating them the same should equate to that treatment meted out by the proportion of officers and prosecutors who in fact show no discretion, proportion or mercy for otherwise law abiding citizens.

I'd prefer to see less of that. And at no time have I seen the cops here say they walk on water and deserve a pass.

As to the danger of being in the trades, I'm 32 years a carpenter, the last 12 pretty exclusively in the door business. In all that time, I never had to conduct a high speed chase, duck shots (At work! Long stories...), fire shots, only been in a couple fistfights...And interact extensively with the vile-est criminal scum, liars (Though I have had to sign paid-when-paid contracts with GCs so maybe I have!
laugh.gif
), malfeasers and "important" people threatening my livelihood because I caught little Johnny stealing my door closers...

Sure there are myriad injuries, exposures and other physical risks, including some pretty ugly deaths (And no funerals with a company of kilt wearing pipers mind you!) in the trades but come on.

Don't get me started on the pension shit though...Must be nice...

</div></div>

Most Police officers do not get in high speed chases, get shot at, or get in fights either.

In my line of work as a commercial contractor/construction worker based on the statistics, it is a more dangerous line of work to be in than law enforcement, it is always funny to hear about how dangerous the job is when it isn't even in the top 10 most years and most police officers die in car accidents, not shootouts with criminals and many times a L.E.O. will get killed in a car wreck while not on duty but they will call it duty related so their family can collect benefits saying it was service related.

Hanging doors is hard to get hurt unless you strain ypour back, I am happy to say we only had 1 fatality on my jobsite and it was not work related and no one was hurt or injured hanging the doors on my project.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

I machine doors and frames, cut out frames and re-install them in masonry openings, do all manner of frame and door installation in medical, Office, industrial and other types of buildings as well as installation of any type of schedule 8 door hardware.

I still manage to do carpentry, mill work, trim and occasional structural work from time to time if the money and circumstances are right.

I currently perform work for several general contractors and over the years have known dozens of Residential, Building and General contractors. Few of them do much in the way of physical labor.
 
Re: Slapchop thinks cops are above the law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bgbill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
People in L.E. has a very high divorce rate for a reason.

</div></div>

Actually, the most recent statistics show that police officers are on par with, or slightly below the nation average for divorce. The LEO suicide rate is still up there but the divorce rates have come down.

The only thing I really notice from the original post is that the Chairman/President of Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is pitching a bitch about the police officer not being charged with a crime. I suspect he would have been bitching had a non LEO had a ND and <span style="font-style: italic">been</span> charged. Now everyone can get charged since he's demanded it and displayed his outrage that unintentional actions aren't always criminal in nature.
</div></div>

LE officers also has a very high heart attack rate. More die from heart disease than being shot.

I agree that unintentional actions aren't always criminal. There should be no criminal punishment. Maybe a warning or reprimand at work and a class on proper concealed carry.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...unintentional actions aren't always criminal in nature.</div></div>Agreed. Let's wait and see how good the departmental investigation is.

If the discharge was unintentional, the question is whether it was negligent or accidental. An accidental discharge is a non-negligent unintentional discharge. It is properly distinguished from a discharge that is merely unintentional. But, regardless of why the discharge happened, the final resting place of the bullet remains the responsibility of the operator of the firearm. So, we ask ourselves: Was the unintentional and allegedly accidental discharge caused by an action or event that the operator of the firearm could have and should have foreseen and/or prevented?

An accidental discharge is a category of unintentional and involuntary discharges caused by mechanical failure or some other event that the operator of the firearm could not have prevented and could not have foreseen. The description of the discharge as an ‘accident’ can mean either of two things: Either that the department makes no distinction between an accident and negligence, or that it distinguishes negligent accidents from justifiable and excusable accidents.

Key factors in the distinction between accident and negligence are:

a) The extent to which the operator of the firearm could have foreseen the event that precipitated the discharge; AND

b) The extent to which the shooter should have foreseen and could have been expected to prevent the event that precipitated the discharge; OR

c) The extent to which the operator of the firearm can be held (morally or legally) responsible and blameworthy for the event that precipitated the discharge.

The determination that a discharge was negligent, as opposed to accidental, requires a finding with regard to the appropriate standards of care that the operator of the firearm could and should have been observing:

1) What did the operator of the firearm know and when did he know it?

AND

2) What should he have known, when should he have known it, and what should or could he have done to preclude the discharge?

The operator is expected to have foreseen and eliminated the risk of discharge by keeping his finger off the trigger and outside of the trigger guard. A gross violation of one of the four fundamental firearm safety rules would indicate a negligent discharge. These rules are:

1. Treat all firearms as if they are always loaded.
2. Never point the muzzle at anything that you are not prepared to take full responsibility for destroying.
3. Never place your finger on the trigger until you are legally justified in using deadly force (or otherwise unless your sights are on target and you have made the decision to shoot).
4. Be aware of what is beyond your target and where your bullet is likely to end-up.

Let's all keep an open mind, and let's see what happened (if they tell us).
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I machine doors and frames, cut out frames and re-install them in masonry openings, do all manner of frame and door installation in medical, Office, industrial and other types of buildings as well as installation of any type of schedule 8 door hardware.

I still manage to do carpentry, mill work, trim and occasional structural work from time to time if the money and circumstances are right.

I currently perform work for several general contractors and over the years have known dozens of Residential, Building and General contractors. Few of them do much in the way of physical labor. </div></div>


and your point is?
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

My point is: I am exposed to the all the attendant risks of construction sites: the dropped pipes, tools, stacks of drywall, steel, lumber, kettles of hot roofing tar, extreme noise, dust, fumes, fires, large machines operating, ladders, open electrical panels, heights, holes, dumb asses and all the other many hazards associated with construction sites.

There's more danger in my business than just a risk of back injury. Especially since I actually perform the services I offer! All of them!

I tend however toward humility and prefer to remain so, especially in the presence of Combat veterans and cops who scrap with shit bags for a living and sometimes screw up. Thus I typically rate my career as 5.75 on the manliness scale where hair dressers are a .00001 and SEALs are in the 9.89 range.

I place most cops higher than 5.75 and Most of the GCs I know are considerably less than that though often decent and honorable people!






 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My point is: I am exposed to the all the attendant risks of construction sites: the dropped pipes, tools, stacks of drywall, steel, lumber, kettles of hot roofing tar, extreme noise, dust, fumes, fires, large machines operating, ladders, open electrical panels, heights, holes, dumb asses and all the other many hazards associated with construction sites.

There's more danger in my business than just a risk of back injury. Especially since I actually perform the services I offer! All of them!

I tend however toward humility and prefer to remain so, especially in the presence of Combat veterans and cops who scrap with shit bags for a living and sometimes screw up. Thus I typically rate my career as 5.75 on the manliness scale where hair dressers are a .00001 and SEALs are in the 9.89 range.

I place most cops higher than 5.75 and Most of the GCs I know are considerably less than that though often decent and honorable people!






</div></div>

I was talking about real world statistics not just speculation of job risks.

It is easy to look up the risks involved.

I never said Police weren't honorable.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bgbill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The impression I get from your frequent posts along this line of reasoning is that treating them the same should equate to that treatment meted out by the proportion of officers and prosecutors who in fact show no discretion, proportion or mercy for otherwise law abiding citizens.

I'd prefer to see less of that. And at no time have I seen the cops here say they walk on water and deserve a pass.

As to the danger of being in the trades, I'm 32 years a carpenter, the last 12 pretty exclusively in the door business. In all that time, I never had to conduct a high speed chase, duck shots (At work! Long stories...), fire shots, only been in a couple fistfights...And interact extensively with the vile-est criminal scum, liars (Though I have had to sign paid-when-paid contracts with GCs so maybe I have!
laugh.gif
), malfeasers and "important" people threatening my livelihood because I caught little Johnny stealing my door closers...

Sure there are myriad injuries, exposures and other physical risks, including some pretty ugly deaths (And no funerals with a company of kilt wearing pipers mind you!) in the trades but come on.

Don't get me started on the pension shit though...Must be nice...

</div></div>

Most Police officers do not get in high speed chases, get shot at, or get in fights either.

In my line of work as a commercial contractor/construction worker based on the statistics, it is a more dangerous line of work to be in than law enforcement, it is always funny to hear about how dangerous the job is when it isn't even in the top 10 most years and most police officers die in car accidents, not shootouts with criminals and many times a L.E.O. will get killed in a car wreck while not on duty but they will call it duty related so their family can collect benefits saying it was service related.

Hanging doors is hard to get hurt unless you strain ypour back, I am happy to say we only had 1 fatality on my jobsite and it was not work related and no one was hurt or injured hanging the doors on my project. </div></div>

This all depends on the area the officer you refer to works. Some work areas where the worst they will get is a person who makes 500,000 a year getting pissy because it took them three minutes to get to their house for a burglary report. Others get shot at and chase violent criminals on a daily basis. On your job it may be as likely or more that you get injured on the job but how likely is it that you will have PTSD/depression/anioxty issues for the rest of your life because of things you see at work? How likely is it that you will see an infant who was punished by sticking it's legs in boiling water because it was crying, a man who shot his own brother killing him because he moved the TV out of the living room, someone who has burned to death, car wreck with someone who has been run over by a loaded 18 wheeler...? How likely are you to get shot at simply because of your job? I am not trying to down grade the danger in what you do.. Everything has it's dangers but to compare your pay compared to the danger you face verses what officers potentaly face everyday. Would you take $70,000 and allow someone to take some shot at you once? I take much much less yearly and in my area one of our officers gets shots at about weekly. We handle a shooting 3-4 nights in a 5 day work week with 8 hour shift we give or take up or down depending on the moon during the summer months. Thats only my shift at my precinct which is one shift of 4 in a 24 hour day and there are 9 different precincts to cover my city. Not sure where you are but how they pull off an on job death while off duty is shocking to me unless they get take home cars and if they do have take home cars if they are in it they are on duty. The downside to a take home car is they cannot pass by a crime or something where they legally have to act because if they do the it would be neglect of duty. I have been on 3 years. I have been in 5 fights in the last year 2 of which the suspect and I both went to the hospital. I have seen 3 people shot to death, countless shot but lived. I have seen a man run over by an 18 wheel that smashed his head flat as a pancake with his brains shot 15-20 feet across the street. I have been on a stand off for 8 hours to try and get someone with a mental disease the help they need only for them to set the house on fire and burn themselves to death. That is not even near all of it and I have only been on for 3 years.

I am fair to everyone and my record shows it. I have had one complaint on me and it was about a speeding ticket and the guy admitted he was speeding when I asked him how fast he thought he was going.

I manage to take care of my family with the BS money I make. I love my job and what do I have to show for it? I make about $41,000 a year which they are cutting even further, shitty benefits which are about to get worse, pensions they are taking away because it cost the city to much. I have developed depression, anxiety and PTSD which are going to possibly cause me issues the rest of my life and the city is try not to cover any of my expense even though it is work related and may end up costing me my job. Go a head and compare your job to mine...
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

I've read many times that the average cop in America, will not fire their weapon in the line of duty (not at the range etc.) during their entire career as a LEO. Is this a myth? How can we get the truth out?
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

Has there been something in these articles I missed? Where does it say that he is not getting charged?!?!

Is this an assumption because it ws not mentioned in the article? Its always assumed that there is going to be a department cover-up, but those are becoming a lot less frequent than they use to be.
 
Re: Off-duty officer accidentally fires shot at mall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bgbill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My point is: I am exposed to the all the attendant risks of construction sites: the dropped pipes, tools, stacks of drywall, steel, lumber, kettles of hot roofing tar, extreme noise, dust, fumes, fires, large machines operating, ladders, open electrical panels, heights, holes, dumb asses and all the other many hazards associated with construction sites.

There's more danger in my business than just a risk of back injury. Especially since I actually perform the services I offer! All of them!

I tend however toward humility and prefer to remain so, especially in the presence of Combat veterans and cops who scrap with shit bags for a living and sometimes screw up. Thus I typically rate my career as 5.75 on the manliness scale where hair dressers are a .00001 and SEALs are in the 9.89 range.

I place most cops higher than 5.75 and Most of the GCs I know are considerably less than that though often decent and honorable people!






</div></div>

I was talking about real world statistics not just speculation of job risks.

It is easy to look up the risks involved.

<span style="color: #CC0000">I never said Police weren't honorable.</span> </div></div>

I never said you did.

Also, I think Hair dressers deserve a higher position on my scale than ambulance chasers. So I rate Scumbag Lawyers (Emphasis on Scumbag...) at.000001 and bump hairdressers up to .01.
 
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