• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Ok after researching time to ask stupid new questions.

jpop8807

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Nov 16, 2022
    243
    176
    Pueblo, CO
    Hello guys, I am a long-range virgin I have shot over 1k...with a 25mm cannon in a Bradley fighting vehicle ( the new one where the computer does all the work) if that counts lol. So prior infantry m16, m4, saw, 240. Optics wise eotech, acog, and m68's. Is most of my firearms experience. So the typical ranges those are fired with whatever combination of optics.

    I came into a bit of money ended up with 2 long guns. One is a browning xbolt in 7mm mag ( had a buddy who was struggling after the army money wise so helped him)
    Then a buddy sold me a howa 1500 the hogue stock one with a 20in bull/heavy barrel for 300 bucks also was sucking on money. So my main go to with my new learning process is the 308. One of my sniper buddies who's still with the 101 told me get good glass, rings, and rail. For my budget, at the time I did vortex pst ii 3x15, a 0 moa rail by nightforce (it was on closeout) and vortex rings. He told me to get a few different boxes of ammo to see what my gun likes, which confused me then he explained he could have the same setup as me, and his might shoot a smaller moa with gold metal match, whereas your's might like black hills blah. He said to get one box of cheap shit to zero/get on paper I chose pmc whatever was on sale.

    Now onto the questions.

    I finally took it out and zero'd with the pmc freezing my ass off just using my backpack as a rest at a sitdown-type shooting range. I didn't really have the steadiest shots my fault for not joining earlier and reading about how important having the rear secure was lol I shot like a 3 moa. Completely on me for sucking on this one. At a high zoom, you'd be surprised how much that little reticle moves when you're shivering lol.

    What all do you recommend I buy starting out? With the 20in 308 I have I'm not really looking to push out further than 600-800 as of right now as I'm slowly learning. Do I need to buy a kestrel, bags/sandsocks, I saw some morbidly obese guy next to with a rather expensive looking 6.5 creedmore using something called a lead sled to zero, but then he was hitting out to 1000 on steel at the range. I didn't even know things like that existed.

    As for the random boxes of ammo I grabbed to try that I haven't shot yet.
    168 grain HPBT prvi partisan
    imi 175 grain otm in 7.62x51
    150 grain fiochi range dynamics
    168 grain a max hornady black
    175 grain hpbt seirra gold metal match
    175 grain tipped matchking black hills

    those were the ones my gun store had not sure which are garbage/good still need to test them out. So once I find out which shoots the most accurately with my firearm I read to reset the zero stops. Then adjust from there when shooting different ranges and such. If say the Black hills gives me the best zero which also happens to be the most expensive, and I wanted to go out and just fuck around with cheap stuff say the PMC or the IMI would I just write down whatever the adjustment was for that ammo, while still retaining the zero stop stuff for whatever is the most accurate? I read about the apps suggested on here that seem to be like a digital dope book, I can download one of those as well.

    Sorry for the extra long post if you read through all this thank you. If I asked or said something stupid and must get flammed flame on.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: 338dude
    Hello guys, I am a long-range virgin I have shot over 1k...with a 25mm cannon in a Bradley fighting vehicle ( the new one where the computer does all the work) if that counts lol. So prior infantry m16, m4, saw, 240. Optics wise eotech, acog, and m68's. Is most of my firearms experience. So the typical ranges those are fired with whatever combination of optics.

    I came into a bit of money ended up with 2 long guns. One is a browning xbolt in 7mm mag ( had a buddy who was struggling after the army money wise so helped him)
    Then a buddy sold me a howa 1500 the hogue stock one with a 20in bull/heavy barrel for 300 bucks also was sucking on money. So my main go to with my new learning process is the 308. One of my sniper buddies who's still with the 101 told me get good glass, rings, and rail. For my budget, at the time I did vortex pst ii 3x15, a 0 moa rail by nightforce (it was on closeout) and vortex rings. He told me to get a few different boxes of ammo to see what my gun likes, which confused me then he explained he could have the same setup as me, and his might shoot a smaller moa with gold metal match, whereas your's might like black hills blah. He said to get one box of cheap shit to zero/get on paper I chose pmc whatever was on sale.

    Now onto the questions.

    I finally took it out and zero'd with the pmc freezing my ass off just using my backpack as a rest at a sitdown-type shooting range. I didn't really have the steadiest shots my fault for not joining earlier and reading about how important having the rear secure was lol I shot like a 3 moa. Completely on me for sucking on this one. At a high zoom, you'd be surprised how much that little reticle moves when you're shivering lol.

    What all do you recommend I buy starting out? With the 20in 308 I have I'm not really looking to push out further than 600-800 as of right now as I'm slowly learning. Do I need to buy a kestrel, bags/sandsocks, I saw some morbidly obese guy next to with a rather expensive looking 6.5 creedmore using something called a lead sled to zero, but then he was hitting out to 1000 on steel at the range. I didn't even know things like that existed.

    As for the random boxes of ammo I grabbed to try that I haven't shot yet.
    168 grain HPBT prvi partisan
    imi 175 grain otm in 7.62x51
    150 grain fiochi range dynamics
    168 grain a max hornady black
    175 grain hpbt seirra gold metal match
    175 grain tipped matchking black hills

    those were the ones my gun store had not sure which are garbage/good still need to test them out. So once I find out which shoots the most accurately with my firearm I read to reset the zero stops. Then adjust from there when shooting different ranges and such. If say the Black hills gives me the best zero which also happens to be the most expensive, and I wanted to go out and just fuck around with cheap stuff say the PMC or the IMI would I just write down whatever the adjustment was for that ammo, while still retaining the zero stop stuff for whatever is the most accurate? I read about the apps suggested on here that seem to be like a digital dope book, I can download one of those as well.

    Sorry for the extra long post if you read through all this thank you. If I asked or said something stupid and must get flammed flame on.
    I have the Viper 3-15 on a Rem 700 in .308 as primarily an eastern whitetail gun. For right now, I’d say stick w what you have and invest in a GOOD bipod and a rear rest bag.

    Might want to keep an eye out in the PX sub forum for used bipods. I personally would recommend BT Industry’s CAL Bipod as a good unit with a reasonable price compared to many others.

    Rear bag…Precision Underground ELR Pro is one of my favorites. Also, Marc Taylor (Frank Galli…site owner…teaching partner) has a very reasonably price bag that works very well. I have one of those also. Just search for member @Enough Said and you will find his thread on them and how to order quite near the top of the list.

    Then join as a “supporter” here on this site which will give you access to the training section and the many great topic specific vids that are there.
    As far as ammo, just my opinion but until you can shoot very precisely…that is w good consistency…it will be hard to distinguish what ammo you gun may take a hankering to. Fed GOLD Medal Match (168 gr in particular but 175 also) are kind of the gold standard. Hard to go wrong w that in .308

    Best of luck.
     
    I have the Viper 3-15 on a Rem 700 in .308 as primarily an eastern whitetail gun. For right now, I’d say stick w what you have and invest in a GOOD bipod and a rear rest bag.

    Might want to keep an eye out in the PX sub forum for used bipods. I personally would recommend BT Industry’s CAL Bipod as a good unit with a reasonable price compared to many others.

    Rear bag…Precision Underground ELR Pro is one of my favorites. Also, Marc Taylor (Frank Galli…site owner…teaching partner) has a very reasonably price bag that works very well. I have one of those also. Just search for member @Enough Said and you will find his thread on them and how to order quite near the top of the list.

    Then join as a “supporter” here on this site which will give you access to the training section and the many great topic specific vids that are there.
    As far as ammo, just my opinion but until you can shoot very precisely…that is w good consistency…it will be hard to distinguish what ammo you gun may take a hankering to. Fed GOLD Medal Match (168 gr in particular but 175 also) are kind of the gold standard. Hard to go wrong w that in .308

    Best of luck.
    Oh shit I forgot to say I ummmm borrowed a harris bipod from the army that is mounted on there.

    I will totally look into a rear bag I was trying to do the fist under rear but it was 27 out and I didn't really dress for it so I could see my shivering in my optic lol.

    Sounds like a good idea. I don't mind supporting a good cause. I wanted to test this place out, and so far I'm loving it so much knowledge. Some gun forums seem like they are filled with such tools, and dumb shit. Going through here it feels old school. Like some grown ass people who tell it like it is. I think I will become a supporter.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Baron23
    Oh shit I forgot to say I ummmm borrowed a harris bipod from the army that is mounted on there.

    I will totally look into a rear bag I was trying to do the fist under rear but it was 27 out and I didn't really dress for it so I could see my shivering in my optic lol.

    Sounds like a good idea. I don't mind supporting a good cause. I wanted to test this place out, and so far I'm loving it so much knowledge. Some gun forums seem like they are filled with such tools, and dumb shit. Going through here it feels old school. Like some grown ass people who tell it like it is. I think I will become a supporter.
    A good rear bag makes all the difference in the world. I literally started our company bc rear bags had no design intent. They’re all just beads in a sack. I came up with a blend of materials to make a filler that makes holding the stock steady much, much easier.


    Be sure you’re not shouldering the rifle; don’t press your shoulder into the stock. Keep the shoulder relaxed, pull straight into it with your bicep. Don’t use a ton of cheek pressure. Use just enough to settle the stock into the bag. Do those things with one of our bags under your rifle and you’ll do much better than 3 moa 🤙🏼
     
    Screenshot_20210323-172856_Chrome.jpg
     
    Whats your budget? What are you trying to achieve? Just plinking targets at distance, hunting competition or just fucking around?
     
    • Like
    Reactions: jpop8807
    you need a decent bipod and a bag that fits you and your rifle. You don't need a Kestrel, you should have some form of ballistic calculator, StrelokPro App works pretty decent. after that go shooting a bunch. watch videos, read etc
     
    • Like
    Reactions: jpop8807
    A good rear bag makes all the difference in the world. I literally started our company bc rear bags had no design intent. They’re all just beads in a sack. I came up with a blend of materials to make a filler that makes holding the stock steady much, much easier.


    Be sure you’re not shouldering the rifle; don’t press your shoulder into the stock. Keep the shoulder relaxed, pull straight into it with your bicep. Don’t use a ton of cheek pressure. Use just enough to settle the stock into the bag. Do those things with one of our bags under your rifle and you’ll do much better than 3 moa 🤙🏼
    Aww fuck me I was totally shouldering the shit out of the rifle. Cheek pressure I was good on. I was totally pulling that thing into my shoulder like life depended on me not letting that thing move at all. I ordered one I think it was the el-rx bag. I will be taking the babies out again soon, and will totally follow your advice. I was pulling into me like I was doing ready-up drills with an m4 lol.
     
    Have you watched any YouTube videos. Ryan Cleckner, Phil and Caylynn, and snipers hide all have free videos to help get you started.
    Oh shit I have seen a thing on Cleckner he did a thing on Warrior Poet society. I'll have to look up more stuff on him.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Taylorbok
    Whats your budget? What are you trying to achieve? Just plinking targets at distance, hunting competition or just fucking around?
    On this build maybe another grand or so. This one is more for plinking at distance I don't have an area more then 600 near me, and a lot of fucking around. Once my 7mm sells I'll look for a more dedicated rifle, to possible venture into the competition world. I don't know shit about hunting not against it just never learned.
     
    Aww fuck me I was totally shouldering the shit out of the rifle. Cheek pressure I was good on. I was totally pulling that thing into my shoulder like life depended on me not letting that thing move at all. I ordered one I think it was the el-rx bag. I will be taking the babies out again soon, and will totally follow your advice. I was pulling into me like I was doing ready-up drills with an m4 lol.
    Thank you sir I think you’ll like the Rx. Pulling into the shoulder is good as long as it’s balanced and you’re pulling straight in/not steering. The tendency for newer shooters is to steer with the firing hand and press forward with their shoulder, don’t do that.
     
    Welcome to your favorite money hole.
    Oh I'm quickly learning that but so worth it. I mean when I was single it was strippers, and alcohol. At least being in a relationship, and coming into this hobby have made me a new man. I'm starting to think ladies of the night and alcohol might have been cheaper though LMFAO.
     
    Hope you don't like money....it's a lot of fun though
    100% true haha. Run what you got for now, I hit out to 1000 with a factory rifle and pst2. Your howa will be a good starting point for sure. Once you get a little trigger time in, consider taking a class, worth the money for sure. You’ll progress faster with a second set of eyes spotting what you may not realize you’re doing wrong. I’ve taken @CR2SS classes and recommend them, there are other members/sponsers courses that also come highly recommended from the guys who’ve taken them so options for learning are plentiful!
     
    • Like
    Reactions: jpop8807
    100% true haha. Run what you got for now, I hit out to 1000 with a factory rifle and pst2. Your howa will be a good starting point for sure. Once you get a little trigger time in, consider taking a class, worth the money for sure. You’ll progress faster with a second set of eyes spotting what you may not realize you’re doing wrong. I’ve taken @CR2SS classes and recommend them, there are other members/sponsers courses that also come highly recommended from the guys who’ve taken them so options for learning are plentiful!

    Yeah that's true too. Having someone who knows what you are doing wrong watch you and personally instruct you is by far the fastest way to sharpen your skills. It's also just fun to do, but without question you will get better. Obviously, I'm a big fan of Chris and Chris. @CR2SS (not sure why it won't tag em), and I've done a pr1 class with them @Waco Kid was there with me, and I have done a "Low light" class (it was pitch black all night and awesome ) with them as well and there's no question that it's the fastest way to improve and actually learn correct technique vs the Fudd lore and grand pappy way of things.

    I'd definitely recommend doing that or if you're out west go see @lowlight
     
    100% true haha. Run what you got for now, I hit out to 1000 with a factory rifle and pst2. Your howa will be a good starting point for sure. Once you get a little trigger time in, consider taking a class, worth the money for sure. You’ll progress faster with a second set of eyes spotting what you may not realize you’re doing wrong. I’ve taken @CR2SS classes and recommend them, there are other members/sponsers courses that also come highly recommended from the guys who’ve taken them so options for learning are plentiful!
    Agreed, back before I got fat and still had a good infantry body. I used to be big into sports bikes. I guess the same principle applies. Instead of going crazy on go-fast goodies, go do an intro to track days or race course education. Why make something faster if you can't use what you have as is? I will definitely look into some classes. Hell ya and that one is in Colorado. The only one that came up initially when I searched was I think a traveling thunder ranch or something like that.
     
    Yeah that's true too. Having someone who knows what you are doing wrong watch you and personally instruct you is by far the fastest way to sharpen your skills. It's also just fun to do, but without question you will get better. Obviously, I'm a big fan of Chris and Chris. @CR2SS (not sure why it won't tag em), and I've done a pr1 class with them @Waco Kid was there with me, and I have done a "Low light" class (it was pitch black all night and awesome ) with them as well and there's no question that it's the fastest way to improve and actually learn correct technique vs the Fudd lore and grand pappy way of things.

    I'd definitely recommend doing that or if you're out west go see @lowlight
    So true. I will never deny that. I will definitely check that out. What did you guys need to bring? Do I need any fancy stuff?
     
    Yeah that's true too. Having someone who knows what you are doing wrong watch you and personally instruct you is by far the fastest way to sharpen your skills. It's also just fun to do, but without question you will get better. Obviously, I'm a big fan of Chris and Chris. @CR2SS (not sure why it won't tag em), and I've done a pr1 class with them @Waco Kid was there with me, and I have done a "Low light" class (it was pitch black all night and awesome ) with them as well and there's no question that it's the fastest way to improve and actually learn correct technique vs the Fudd lore and grand pappy way of things.

    I'd definitely recommend doing that or if you're out west go see @lowlight
    So I don't see any level ones here in Colorado coming up they have a mountain course coming up but it says not for long range beginners. I clicked on the private long range instruction.
    So the course is 850 then for range fees.

    Additional cost: Range fees (this varies depending on location of the course)
    -Strongpoint Shooting Complex, 400 yard range, Waverly Hall, GA ($100)
    -Arena Training Facility, 2300 acre multi-purpose range with 2300 meter unknown distance range, Blakely, GA ($950)
    -Cameo Shooting and Education Complex, 2000 yard range capable of field and high angle shooting scenarios, Palisade, CO ($1000)

    So that would mean it would be 1850 for Colorado. Unless I wait to see if there is another group class happening. Or is the 1850 roughly what the class runs?
     
    So I don't see any level ones here in Colorado coming up they have a mountain course coming up but it says not for long range beginners. I clicked on the private long range instruction.
    So the course is 850 then for range fees.

    Additional cost: Range fees (this varies depending on location of the course)
    -Strongpoint Shooting Complex, 400 yard range, Waverly Hall, GA ($100)
    -Arena Training Facility, 2300 acre multi-purpose range with 2300 meter unknown distance range, Blakely, GA ($950)
    -Cameo Shooting and Education Complex, 2000 yard range capable of field and high angle shooting scenarios, Palisade, CO ($1000)

    So that would mean it would be 1850 for Colorado. Unless I wait to see if there is another group class happening. Or is the 1850 roughly what the class runs?

    I think Frank's classes out there are around $1000 , but I think some of those range fees are not just one day. I've been to arena a few times and I don't think they do just one person on one day or if they do it's expensive. A PR1 course should be available sometime between either @cr2ss or @lowlight course though I would think.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: jpop8807
    So I don't see any level ones here in Colorado coming up they have a mountain course coming up but it says not for long range beginners. I clicked on the private long range instruction.
    So the course is 850 then for range fees.

    Additional cost: Range fees (this varies depending on location of the course)
    -Strongpoint Shooting Complex, 400 yard range, Waverly Hall, GA ($100)
    -Arena Training Facility, 2300 acre multi-purpose range with 2300 meter unknown distance range, Blakely, GA ($950)
    -Cameo Shooting and Education Complex, 2000 yard range capable of field and high angle shooting scenarios, Palisade, CO ($1000)

    So that would mean it would be 1850 for Colorado. Unless I wait to see if there is another group class happening. Or is the 1850 roughly what the class runs?
    Get a hold of lowlight, take his courses. Best money you can invest, it’ll save you a bunch in the long run. Your rig is fine for now, well, upgrade the stock to the KRG bravo. Run AICS style mags. The precision underground bags are the best in the business. Atlas Cal bipod‘s are great. You can run that setup till the barrel is gone and rebarrel or build what you really want. But until you have a reference point, ie- experience, you’ll end up throwing money away building stuff that’s cool, or at the time seems so, but in practice isn’t what you really wanted. Ask me how I know….. 😑🤷🏼‍♂️

    Welcome to the sport and the hide!
     
    Be extra careful with your new bang sticks around boats. Pretty much every member here has suffered catastrophic loss due to being in close proximity to boats.
     
    So I finally got around to taking the babies out. I wish my target looked as pretty as my firearms.

    PRI MK12 Upper AR build
    Howa 1500 308

    20230127_113832.jpg
    20230127_113822.jpg
    20230127_111204.jpg
    20230127_111119.jpg
     
    I didn't have the MK12 Boresited or zeroed so I kind of just walked it up at 100 yards the group in the center is with m855 federal, the group on the bottom left is with IMI 55grain. I bought all type of match ammo but ran out (had to go to work) time. First time shooting it. Honestly after watching 9 Holes and him saying the PRI upper gets around 2+moa I don't see it. I've never shot this weapon and was under that.

    20230127_135930.jpg
     
    Sooooo onto the .308. That was my 5 shot group using PMC 147grain trying to get a rough zero. I think I'm a bitch or was doing something wrong with the MK12 I had no problem not flinching and keeping my eyes open but after 10 years infantry I'm used to how the 5.56 behaves. With the .308 Howa 20 in barrel, I just put it into a bell and carlson yesterday. I tried doing everything that the guy in the videos above posted. Minus the range didn't allow laying in prone. So I loaded the bipod legs by pressing them into that lip you see I used my Underground precision bag with my hand under the grip to hold it steady. I tried putting my thumb on the top of the rest of my fingers. Breath, steady trigger squeeze, then the gun like jumped up and was completely off target. I had a habit of not for some reason keeping my eyes on target when shooting it. The two rounds that were ontop of each other I put my thumb ontop of the grip like inline with the bolt and tried my best to remember my fundamentals. My initial attempt at grouping which I haven't posted yet was even worse like a 4-5MOA. Like embarrassing.

    PS the 308 is the big holes.


    20230127_140125.jpg
     
    There ya go bud, @lowlight is an excellent instructor and you will improve a ton and have real things to work on, plus truly know your way around a rifle when you're done
    After today of finally shooting it. I need to see if I can get some off time to take @Lowlight classes I work mon-fri in Pueblo which is a few hours away from that range. I need to get some PTO up.
     
    Bro is that gate 20? Of speckler/mcgrath on ft carson
    No I found some new to me shooting range called Republic shooting down towards avondale about 20 minutes from Pueblo Airport. 12 big ass lanes you get to yourself. Owned by some ex Seal type. Great range. They even have a platform set up like 9 holes reviews with steel going from I think 150-1000 yards. The range you're talking about is the Cheyenne mountain shooting complex not bad for the price, but it can be a pain in the ass to shoot there.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Huskydriver
    No I found some new to me shooting range called Republic shooting down towards avondale about 20 minutes from Pueblo Airport. 12 big ass lanes you get to yourself. Owned by some ex Seal type. Great range. They even have a platform set up like 9 holes reviews with steel going from I think 150-1000 yards. The range you're talking about is the Cheyenne mountain shooting complex not bad for the price, but it can be a pain in the ass to shoot there.
    Boss
     
    • Like
    Reactions: jpop8807
    Get these in .308 . Get a table and a window . Dry fire . Dry fire alot .

    Also make sure you have no live rounds out and triple che what you put in the rifle .
     
    SOOOO I figured out my fuck up. I finally managed to get a smaller group. After lots of research through google it brought be back to here. Found an article on bag/bipod shooting. At the range I was at you're on a concrete bench. When I shot previously I was trying to do what the video's above showed. Bipod, rear bag, but when I shot it felt like the gun would leap around. Today I went back out and just used my backpack as a rest. Did everything else the videos showed that you guys shared with me. Much smaller groups, didn't get that feeling like I was flinching or something and the weapon just pushed back into my shoulder vs sliding/jumping around. God I love this website. I will post a dedicated thread on my findings with my firearm when I'm done testing the ammo. 2 5 shot groups for each factory load out. I noticed ammo makes a huge difference.